How to start from scratch in 12 mo separation ?

[n9688m]

Ever heard the expression that there is three sides to every story - his side of the story, her side of the story and then there is the truth.

 

 

Related to that - I think this is why individual counseling can sometimes cause more harm than good if the person does not give accurate information to the counselor.

 

In my case - and perhaps in SD's as well - my STBXW attended IC but given how much misleading information she gave to her friends/relatives, I can only assume she did the same with her counselor. Thus her counselor basically has reinforced some very selfish behaviors - not unlike what SD reports for his STBXW.

[SingleDad]

Yes there are three sides to every story.

 

And I am tired of hearing my Ex's story of how she never got love from me, how our daughter is better off, how she was a great wife and mother, how she has to "correct all of the bad habits I am creating" in my daughter.

 

I just wish it would all go away. I just can't do this.

[n9688m]

how she was a great wife and mother

 

Res ipsa loquitur

[SingleDad]

Res ipsa loquitur

 

Exactly my point..."the thing speaks for itself". I have no cause of action sufficient to win against her or any counter arguments.

 

I just have to accept this new life as it is and learn to be happy with what I have left.... it just sucks.

[SingleDad]

My STBXW and I just exchanged some harsh and angry words both by e mail and phone over her boyfriend sleeping over while our daughter is there, bad habits to our daughter, morals and honesty.

 

I feel so bad and angry and hurt - but this is also the mother of my daughter and I hate things to be so hurtful. so I sent her another e-mail with a different tone:

 

"Obviously I love you and have loved you or none of this would be affecting me so much

 

I want to be friends with you, especially for the sake of our daughter... but I do not know how right now

 

I do not agree with the path you have chosen... I strongly believe our daughter will be adversely affected by your decision for the rest of her life - similar to the impact my father's suicide had on me... and your parents' divorce on you. My father was selfish in taking his life - not understanding that his actions affected and changed the future of everyone around him - it wasn't all about him alone. The same thing is true of Divorce.

 

I do not know how to work things out with you or if is is even possible while you have a boyfriend or if too many bridges have been burned and there will never be any turning back.

 

I wish we could have gone through marraige counseling... I think you gave up to quickly on me and our marriage - things were not that bad for that long. Or at least given me a chance after I now know the consequences.

 

 

You have made a life changing decision - You are caught up with someone else and has clouded you to the point where all you have is bad memories of me and our time together. Things couldn't have been that bad or you wouldn't have married me after 3 1/2 years of dating and then actively deciding to bring a child into this world together. I do understand that our viewpoints clashed to the point where we did not treat each other the way we both deserve to be treated. I am truly sorry for my part of that failure - if I could take it all back I would.

 

 

Your decision impacts more than your life - it drastically changes Brooke's and mine as well. I wish you could truly understand that

 

I have been given no choice but to live my life, or what is left of it, and take a new direction

 

Hopefully in the future - we can learn from our mistakes and make things right again.

 

Love, "

 

I know that there will be strong viewpoints from PelicanPreacher and BadBrit and NM. But again these words came from the heart on not anger

[n9688m]

SD - this sounds more like you want to reconcile than that you are interested in your daughter's welfare.

 

Keep your communication focused on your role as a parent, not on you role as an ex-spouse.

[SingleDad]

True - that is my rollercoaster of emotions taking over.

 

Some days I hate W.. other days I want everything back.

 

You are right. My approach will just hurt more in the long run.

 

Looks like I am still not over the separation - I thought I was getting there. The boyfriend issue took me a few steps back.

[pelicanpreacher]

SD, as strongly as you feel about your stbx is as absently as she feels about you for she is so detached from your marriage that she is openly and willingly spreading her legs for another man while keeping your daughter. You cannot serve two masters and neither can she with the proof being her alignment of her loyalties to her OM. If you would have at least accepted this possibility from the advice of the many posters who pointed out the warning signs, this revelation would not have been so painful. This knowledge would still have caused some measure pain but the brunt of its impact would have been dramatically lessened in its severity if you would have just chosen to see the punch coming and rolled with it. Even now you've chosen to remain blindly ignorant to the possibility that she became pregnant with OM's child during the course of your marriage which you've admitted will devastate you if you're forced to open your eyes yet again.

 

I'm sorry about your father (it explains a lot about your attitude and temperment throughout this situation) but you have given over the reins of your emotions to your inner child far too long in this ordeal and it is time to take stock and grow up! Start seeing everything for what it is and begin approaching the end of your marriage as any businessman dissolving a business partnership! If your stbx is pregnant I would refrain from proceeding with the divorce until paternity is resolved before making your decision about whether you will retain rights as the father if the child is proven to be the OM's.

 

As far as any future relationship with your stbx you neither owe her an amicable nor courteous one for she has shown you in writing ten feet tall that she doesn't owe you that either. You must demote your stbx to that of a random stranger that you foolishly had unprotected sex with who "Oops" got pregnant requiring you to adjust your life to support the child for all she has viewed you as, since the onset of her affair, was a sperm donor and a major payday!

 

Look forward to the day that you can emancipate your daughter so that you can at least cut off the cash flow and bring your ex to the full reality of her choices when the opportunity arises. (I'd advise that you play that card close to the vest else she'll revise the current child support arrangement to really burn you)

[badbrit]

I am sorry for your pain SD, I have been there as we all have although I have not experienced the loss of a parent so do not know that particular pain, especially to lose a father as you did.

 

However, you know this is true because you even said it yourself. This is NOT about Brooke, this is about your pain, your inability to deal with the change and situation and not being able to accept it, let it go and move on.

 

You are projecting your hurt, anger, disappointment and only low feelings into this situation and using your child as the stick to continue beating your stbxw with. The proof is right there in your email. You are in pain and want to hurt your stbxw, you want to tell her what a s h i t she is, you want to blame her, lash out, point out her errors, make her think about what she has done and are using your daughter as the excuse to do this and in your mind believe it is about the daughter. Wrong, that is just how your are justifying it in your mind when you know the truth deep down.

 

Look, it is over and she has a different viewpoint to you. Her feelings are gone and so she will not listen to your "reasoning", it is all just an annoyance to her. It means nothing to her now and that does not make her bad, it just means she has emotionally detached. All these things that you say and write that have such deep emotional meaning to you, in your mind she is going to read it and something is going to think, "wow, what an ass I am, he is right, love, marriage, child, togetherness IS what it is all about." Well sorry dude, she does not read it like that, she just sees an annoying man who cannot accept it. She is on a different page.

 

Think about this, you know it is over and are now asking if maybe you should start dating. That means you know that is the situation you are in, marriage is over and perhaps you should date (clearly you shouldn't because you still have major ex wife snags and mental pain) but if you did date, it would not be wrong and you know it.

 

SO, why is it wrong that she dates? Oh yeah, cos she did it, you think, before you split. Well that is the past, start living in the present. The marriage is over to all intents and purposes, what is definate is you are no longer a couple, together, sharing a life. You are seperate people making your own way in this world. That means she is free to date as you are.

 

Stop being such a class A jerk and looking like a total nutjob giving her a telling off all the time like you are some kind of saint or the worlds judge and jury

[SingleDad]

PP and badbrit - you are both right. I am angry hurt and in anguish. Monday's revelation of Ex sleeping with OM while my daughter is in the next room was a new blow to me - and I have been venting this hurt to my Ex. I know it is the wrong thing to do, but I do not know how I could have brushed it off like I was fine with it and express how happy I am with my life (when I am clearly not).

 

I need to pull myself out of the sewer, clean up and start a new life. I know that.

 

Because of Monday - I probably am not ready to be dating. But I can't let myself wallow in my own anguish anymore. I deserve to have good things in my life. I am not going to have them if I don't try.

[TrustInYourself]

Wow. You let another person's decisions and actions become the basis for your own happiness?? You are bound to be very unhappy for a very long time.

 

Take control of your life, or play the victim. It's your choice.

 

If you need a woman to validate your self worth that badly, you are in bad shape.

 

Why would you do that? Do you know in some sense you are probably satisfying her narcissism with your self destruction? She probably enjoys seeing and hearing how much of an impact she's having on your life. She probably gets off on it, in a sick, twisted manner.

[SingleDad]

I certainly can't say people are not direct on this forum.

 

Thanks TIY... So I guess I'm not ready to be dating. And Yes - I have often found myself happier when a woman wants me or loves me. I am in bad shape because I do need validation - at least now. I feel like crap and the world has caved around me. All of my hopes and dreams are crushed.

 

I am not a stud.

I have never been able to pick up a date at a bar.

Women are not attracted to me.

I lack self-confidence (at least right now).

 

Yes, I am relatively successful, dedicated, hard worker - but dating has always been my weakness.

 

So yes I am scared to be alone - I am a wuss. Thanks for the reminder.

[pelicanpreacher]

I have to disagree with you Bad Brit for, not only is she a bad person, but she is a despicable one as well! She knows of SD's history and knew just which buttons to push to get her way. It is time to show her that the reality of her way is paved right into Hell for he has other minds working on this case to insure his best interests and that justice is done!

 

Though this probable new child may be perceived as innocent we are all guilty. Only the innocent live forever so, thus, no-one gets out of this life alive.

That's the fact Jack!

[n9688m]

Wow. You let another person's decisions and actions become the basis for your own happiness??.

 

There is nothing unhealthy about being happier as part of a nuclear family than as a single person.

[LookinFWD]

SingleDad-

 

My heart goes out to you man it really does. I read most of your thread last night. You have got to move on with out her and just focus on your

relationship with your daughter.

 

If I was you I would just get on all of the online dating sites and also make sure to get out of the house a lot and you'll meet someone before

you know it.

 

You probably are just the kind that needs a woman- nothing wrong with

that. Your STBX is NOT the right one is all!

 

Please move forward, and best of luck:)

[pelicanpreacher]

As to your email SD, I have read it, reread it, and reread it once again and I am pleased by its content. You have simply asked her to see you as a human being and to look at the bigger picture. I couldn't have prosed it any better!

[Jonesey]

Hello SD and everyone,

 

SD- Look back at my thread and all of the pure hell I went through..... Now, I will tell you there was a breaking point for me and I said F her. I went against what my mind and body told me I wanted and turned a cold shoulder to her and the situation. Now, my STBXW is the one that is in that world of pain and uncertainty. She has seen my changes, my effort into my son's life being better and my lack of giving a S about the separation. It took about a month but her world is starting to come down around her ankles because I stopped being spineless and pathetic.

 

Maybe you should read this a few times, get your balls back and stop giving her the power over you that makes her world so great. This new guy will ditch her, it's a fact and she will come back to you. That's when you will (hopefully) have the mindset and the tools to make a rational decision of either reconciliation or telling her to hit the bricks.......

 

The course you are flying now only goes to one place..... nervous breakdown pathetic-ville.

[badbrit]

Wow Pelican, you could not have a more skewed view on life if you tried, really. You say she is despicable and bad. Ok, forget opinions for one moment and answer these questions.

1. Do you know his stbxw?

2. Have you ever met her or heard her version of events?

3. What proof do you have the SD has told the WHOLE truth and not just his version which comes from anger and pain?

4. Do you have any REAL knowledge of SD, his personality, how he lives, how he treated his stbxw, how their marriage was, any efforts she may have made which was way way before she left?

5. Have you actually seen how his stbxw is living? How she interacts with her child, the home setup, the situation with this new bf?

6. Have you ever seen how SD acts around his child, how he interacts, his effort level?

 

No no no no no oh and no. So save me the sacrimonious rubbish and character assaination of the stbxw when you actually have zero and I mean ZERO actual, real, genuine, provable, evidence backed knowledge of the woman.

 

I am not ripping her apart or delving into the situation because frankly I only know one version of events. I will however talk to SD about how HE is dealing with it, how he is acting and the big big issues he has to let go of because he has written about these and they are all over the thread.

[badbrit]

Why why why are so many people allowing this to continue and pelican you are feeding the bitterness and need to grow up and walk into the light and the real world.

 

Listen and listen good. What the stbxw does is of little business of SD. The ONLY things that are of concern to him are things that affect his daughter, everything else and I mean everything else is none of his business.

 

They are no longer a couple. How that happened, why is happened, if it should of happened or not are totally and I mean totally irrelevant. We live in a free world with free will. STBXW has her own life and feelings and if she has chosen to not be with SD then that is her right. Sure a child is involved but she has her own life and if this is what she wants she damn well has the right to do this.

 

No one should ever remain in a marriage for the sake of a child, those days are thankfully gone. She owed it to herself to be happy and she obviously wasn't and could not see it ever changing. Think about it, why would she choose to be a single mother, struggling if she had other options. If she could have been happy in the marriage and felt she could be happy in it with work then of course she would of tried. Do not talk such utter BS to think otherwise.

 

Now they are seperated they are NOT a couple and what she does and with whom is none of his business. Look, if he was a spouse that was coming here cos his ex was sticking her beak in to his business, having a go at him over his new gf, causing arguments and being bitter (plenty with THAT kind of story here) then you would all be saying that she needs to accept that their shared life is over, it is none of her business and she needs to get over it. If he had a new gf, we would all clearly be saying that as long as it was not adversely affecting their child then it is none of her business and he deserved to find someone who makes him happy.

 

SD needs to understand all of this. IT IS OVER, DONE, FINISHED, stop being bitter or it will eat you up forever. Get on with life and let go of the hate as it does not serve you well. She is NOT causing your pain, you are doing that yourself.

[badbrit]

Hello SD and everyone,

 

SD- Look back at my thread and all of the pure hell I went through..... Now, I will tell you there was a breaking point for me and I said F her. I went against what my mind and body told me I wanted and turned a cold shoulder to her and the situation. Now, my STBXW is the one that is in that world of pain and uncertainty. She has seen my changes, my effort into my son's life being better and my lack of giving a S about the separation. It took about a month but her world is starting to come down around her ankles because I stopped being spineless and pathetic.

 

Maybe you should read this a few times, get your balls back and stop giving her the power over you that makes her world so great. This new guy will ditch her, it's a fact and she will come back to you. That's when you will (hopefully) have the mindset and the tools to make a rational decision of either reconciliation or telling her to hit the bricks.......

 

The course you are flying now only goes to one place..... nervous breakdown pathetic-ville.

 

Further to that, I would like to comment further on my own situation.

 

I have been bitter, I have been angry, I have projected my pain onto the ex and mother of our disabled three year old son and it did nothing except make my pain even more intense. She did not give a monkeys left testicle for how I felt and grew to hate me. I acted irrational and flip flopped all the time and rather than understanding that it was my pain and desperation at losing her, she just grew to think I was a total fruitloop and it served to validate her negative thoughts about me and make her even more sure that leaving me was the right thing to do. I watched her going off with a married man every Saturday night from town, I watched her chatting up other men, I saw men taking her home, I saw losers and users talking to her and her being interested and all the while she would not give me the time of the day. Me, the man who was a great dad (she knows says not, her problem not mine as she is wrong), the man who loved her, gave her everything I could, was not bad to her at all etc etc, she put me below everyone else in the pecking order. And it hurt.....

 

.....Until I listened to my own words on the other post, learnt that this is what happens, S happens, it is life, oh well, does not make her a bad person.

 

I got on with my life and now I own a beautiful home, have all my kids to stay (I have two other elder children), have a great gf who lives with me, I work out all the time and am in best shape ever, I have loads of friends, take holidays, go away on weekends, have a wonderful relationship, when my kids stay it is a real happy family unit as my gf loves kids and is such an amazingly sweet, mature, sensible person unlike the ex.

 

Life is great. However the ex, well she bumbles around with various men, she is mainly at home all day and evenings alone, bored, on facebook and her home is a disgusting pig sty, she causes problems and is awkward with me about our son then denies that she is doing it (trust me she is being awkward), she does nothing, no work, no life, nothing and is very bitter and becoming lonely and twisted.

 

I had a great life before her (why did I ever leave my original partner for her in 2003!!!?????), am having a great life after her but had a bad life WITH her. hmmmmmm

 

She had a dirty home, random men, depression, lazy and lonely life before me, made it like that WITH me and has been like that since me. hmmmmmmm

 

Join the dots huh. Who was really to blame for us living poorly with mega issues and turmoil? I hope she one day sorts out her issues which in her case stem from her.

 

The point? You can not deal with other peoples issues, they have them and can only deal with them by themselves if they want to. Do not let it affect you. Live YOUR life and be happy. Hope she is happy and if she isn't, oh well, be glad she is not dragging you to her level anymore. Best revenge? To move on and live a good life, a better life than her, a more wholesome life without her and know that you were in the right and you were capable even if she wasn't.

 

Like you, my ex loves our child, hugely. Whether she gives him the life he should have or not is debatable. I can not control that, I can only control the life he has when with me and I make damn sure that it is great.

[n9688m]

S happens, it is life, oh well, does not make her a bad person.

 

She put her personal lust before her young child.

 

Short of violence, what would possibly make her a worse person that that?

[badbrit]

I disagree, she put her emotional happiness, her mental wellbeing, her wants and desires in life first. She no longer had any spark for me and for her she did the right thing.

 

For our son she also did the right thing as he now has two parents who have a greater chance of future happiness which will make his life better than how it was which was one parent (her) depressed, downbeat, unhappy, trapped, pessamistic and one parent (me) desperate to get love, trying to hold it together but failing and so pre-occupied with her and trying to keep it together that i too was unhappy, walking on eggshells, always nervous and sometimes through my pain being a total idiot.

 

Is she happier? Yeah, I am certain that she is. Perhaps life is not great and she is not leading a great great life but I am sure she is better without the mental anguish that us being a couple caused her. I have total confidence in her as a person and probably value and respect her more than she respects herself and so am confident she will find her way to a good life. I told her this just last week - I wish she could see herself through my eyes and value herself and see what i did, then she would not be so hard on herself and would be happier.

 

Am I happier? Without a doubt yes. I am much happier, I am secure emotionally, I lead a good life, no stress, good times, family, friends, fun, laughter etc and lead the life i wanted to with her but am leading anyway. Sure I would have preferred to do it with her and her to have wanted it and to see how it could of been. But I will not beat myself over the head about it. I am glad how it worked out.

 

One day, I hope, SD will reach this point. Respect his ex and her choices and see that she has given him the greatest gifts of all. 1. She gave him a child that she continues to not be awkward about and allows his to have access to. 2. She gave him his freedom to find someone who loves him.

[n9688m]

I disagree, she put her emotional happiness, her mental wellbeing, her wants and desires in life first. She no longer had any spark for me and for her she did the right thing.

 

Well I don't know your case in detail, but with SD's STBXW and mine and many others I have read, they had their affair before making a credible attempt at counseling. That invalidates the argument that leaving the marriage was "necessary" for her emotional well-being because we have all seen so often the stories of revisionist history and rationalization.

 

If a wife makes a credible effort at MC befpre having an affair and it is still non-salvagable, then c'iest la vie. But if instead the affair comes first - then we are dealing with nothing more than selfish lust.

 

 

For our son she also did the right thing as he now has two parents who have a greater success of future happiness which will make his life better than how it was which was one parent (her) depressed, downbeat, unhappy, trapped, pessamistic

 

Well again I would have to know more details about what she did to try to fix this before her affair. But overall the Wallerstein book on legacy effects of divorce suggests that the happy/improved outcome you suggest is by far the exception rather than the rule.

 

I am sure she is better without the mental anguish that us being a couple caused her.

 

How do you know your relationship wasn't fixable? Did you have a chance at MC before an affair?

 

I have total confidence in her as a person and probably value and respect her more than she respects herself

 

Two questions. First -if she doesn't respect herself then is her issue a matter of her own intrinsic mental health rather than your compatibility as a couple?

 

Second - Did your ex have an affair and if so how can you possibly respect her?

 

she has given him the greatest gifts of all. 1. She gave him a child that she continues to not be awkward about and allows his to have access to. 2. She gave him his freedom to find someone who loves him.

 

Total BS - he would have been much better off never having met her.

[badbrit]

To get history correct, my ex did not have an affair, I am almost certain she cheated with someone in our early days as there as a score of evidence but she has always denied it. Then I know for fact she cheated in Aug 06 which was admitted which made us split but we got back together three months later. She did not cheat or have an affair to the best of my knowledge leading up to this last, final and permanent split in March of this year.

Anyway, affair or not, how do you know that SD was not such an intolerable husband that led her to seek comfort elsewhere? Answer me that with a categoric answer.

 

Ok, lets answer what you wrote.

 

1. You are suggesting with your words that having an affair after making a credible effort at MC is different to just having an affair. What if she has totally checked out due to his behaviour. Are you trying to say that it is not possible for a marriage to be broken down to the point of not repairable? You do not think that it is possible for a marriage to be so badly damaged that MC is totally and 100% not neccessary?

 

2. I do not know anything about the Wallerstein book and really do not care. Exception rather than the rule? I do not know, I am not a case study and neither is my ex. We are human beings who will do the best in our own situation and we are not other people, we are us and we will do the best we can. You can read all the drivel you want but you would be better served letting go of the resentment, hate and stop looking for all this stuff to make out you are a saint and she is such a bad bad person and deal with the reality and make a good job at raising children. I was married once before, have two elder kids which are nothing to do with the mother of my little boy, the recent ex. And that ex wife is great, we are friends, best friends and we love, care and respect each other and are bloody great parents to our kids. I know my recent ex will do the best she can do too.

 

3. Yes we did MC and it was a waste of time and frankly it does not work when one party is not interested. Anyway, even without MC I would say I know it was unfixable BECAUSE MY EX DID NOT HAVE A SHRED OF LOVE FOR ME ANYMORE. For whatever reason, it was gone. Once that spark has gone it can be very hard to get it back, if not impossible. So yes it was impossible and I know this because I know that what we once had between us was long dead (not from me, I loved her totally, but in her it was gone and I understand that it can happen, whether it is her issues or not, her mistake or not, her inability to let go of the past, to live in the past, to not take responsibilty for her role or whatever, it does not matter anymore)

 

4. I do not care if it is her mental health or our incompatabilty. It happened, get over it. Lets say it was both, how about that. I was the wrong person to be with her as I clearly made her own inner issues worse. My character and reactions to how she lives only made it worse. It is not my business anymore, I have my own life to lead and do not really care either way.

 

5. She did have relations with other people during the time we met in March 2003 and splitting in March 2008 yes. Why should I not respect her? I am broadminded enough to understand that had I been meeting her emotional needs then she would not have felt attraction for other people or rather, would not have acted on it. I accept she did wrong BUT accept it was MY failings that opened the door for it to happen.

 

6. Total BS? He would have been better off having never met her? I bet she says the same and would be justified in saying so. Because then she would not have had to live in a marriage that did not meet her emotional needs, make her unhappy and leave her alone to bring up a child.

 

Damn, I have been SD and I am the one now defending the other side, crazy but it is because i can accept this happens, big deal. Bitterness is so unattractive.

 

I am grateful to my ex because I got to experience feeling real and unconditional love. I got to spend time with an amazing girl, I have many happy memories (even if her memories are different, no matter, I only have to live with mine, not hers), I have a great, no, the GREATEST little boy on this planet and I love myself today. I have learnt so many things from the mistakes I made and from the ones she made. They have made me a more compassionate, caring and understanding person. Today I love myself and had I done anything differently up to this day then perhaps I would not be who I am today.

 

I am a better man since I split with my ex, because of the split with my ex and so I take the glass is half full attitude. Why live with regrets. My only problem in my life is I miss my son like crazy, I feel sad when i return him to her because it was not how I envisoned it but that is ok, I deal with it. And I am sad too that she did not, can not and never see me for the man I am and only sees mistakes I made without any realisation of how we just brought the worse out in each other. No matter, today I am the man I always tried to be with her, it just took not being with her to make it happen.

 

Let go of the pain people, let it go, do not be bitter, just accept it and make a better life for yourself. One day we will all be dead and I choose to not spend the time inbetween focusing on what I do not have but instead choose to enjoy what I DO HAVE

[badbrit]

I will make it simplier. Sometimes two people are together and shouldn't be. Simple