How to start from scratch in 12 mo separation ?

[SingleDad]

I know that the list of 'divorce busters' says no spying...but I'd counter that slightly. I still feel strongly that there's an OM in the shadows here...and your chances of recovering you marriage without doing something about that situation are pretty darned slim.

 

You need intel. Hire a PI, get a friend that she doesn't know to swing by her house and identify cars that are there...there are TONS of things you can do to start to get more information. (have you looked at finance/cell phone records like I'd suggested yet?).

 

Once you know something for sure on that front, there's a lot you can do to put pressure to end the affair...but you can't do anything to make that happen until you've got that intel.

 

Get the intel, formulate your battle plan, and then implement it.

 

No intel available. No financial records, no phone records, no e-mail records. Garage has no windows - wouldn't know if BF there.

 

Let's assume there is BF. What pressure can be put to end affair when we are legally separated and living apart ? Alternatively, what can I do to be better for her than a BF - have her think positively about me. I can certainly be a better father to our daughter. I can be there for her when she calls. Anything else ?

[SingleDad]

SD - you had a month of NC? Was that at the beginning of the separation? Did she ask for this?? And how did that break, in the end?

 

HeatherAngel - I know you are anxious to C with H... but I think you have to wait in your situation. H has specifically asked for NC. I would not call him on Aug 1. He needs to call you... if he doesn't C you on Aug 1 - you can't look desperate and call him right away.

 

My W did not ask for NC or LC... That was more my doing it. I was in so much anguish and angry, I could not talk with W without yelling at her at one point, desperate at one point, couldn't stand to hear her voice at another point. It wasnt in the right state of mind to call her until yesterday.

 

The mostly NC was this last month from the day she moved out and bought her own house until yesterday. I had a plan. I wanted to tell her what she wanted to hear I think. That I wanted to be friends, that I miss her, that I want to have conversations with her, that I didn't know what she wanted before but I do now - really listen to her, that I understand why she felt she had to leave, That I want to talk about our daughter more...

 

But without begging or pleading or being damanding or being angry or arguing...

[Owl]

Let's assume there is BF. What pressure can be put to end affair when we are legally separated and living apart ? Alternatively, what can I do to be better for her than a BF - have her think positively about me. I can certainly be a better father to our daughter. I can be there for her when she calls. Anything else ?

 

That's part of the "stick" of plan A that LJ and I keep referring to.

 

If there is an affair...she's fighting like heck to keep it hidden in the dark. Affairs don't like being exposed to light...they shrivel up and die.

 

There's a whole concept around the idea of "exposure" that basically would bring the affair out in the open...and let her suffer the full consequences of the affair. It makes it a far less fun thing to be involved in, instead of the fantasy land it is when its a well kept secret.

 

I know I've suggested that you try to figure this out several times, and you've always come back with "there's little I can do".

 

Think about this really hard for a moment...is there really that little you can do, or are you AFRAID to find out the truth?

 

I'm not attacking you...please don't take it that way.

 

But what I'm thinking is that you don't want to find out the truth, and that you're afraid of 'rocking the boat'.

 

Right now, your wife has ALL of the power in this situation. And you seem afraid of upsetting that...you seem reluctant to try to balance out the power. You seem nervous about fighting for YOUR rights as a dad, as a husband, as part of the marriage.

 

Bluntly...women don't love someone they can't respect. And they can't respect someone that they can walk all over...giving in to your wife isn't going to win her back.

 

I'll ask LJ to back me up on this...I've heard rumors that she's a woman, and might even have a woman's viewpoint on this!

 

Had I just given in to what my wife wanted in my case...she would have left me for OM and that would have been the end of our marriage. My wife was (for some reason) SURPRISED that I FOUGHT for us, and fought for what was right.

 

I set some clear boundaries, with some clear and rather dire consequences...that I fully meant. This was the first thing that caused her to pause and THINK about what she was doing for the first time.

 

I get that you're legally seperated at this point. Is that the same as divorced? Does that make it MORALLY right for her to date/live with someone else, with your daughter in the house?

 

Where is her family, her friends in all of this? What are THEY saying/doing about her actions? If she's got a BF...if she was cheating on you before the seperation...what would be their reaction to this?

[SingleDad]

I had stopped exploring the BF issue when my attorney said that it wouldn't affect custody or financial settlement.

 

Ex will lose all trust in me if she ever learns that I was spying on her or hired a PI to investigate her... having proof of an affair and using that against her would simply put a nail in the coffin of our marriage. She expects me to respect each others privacy... To her that would be more damaging than an affair. The whole thing would just backfire in my face. She historically had Ex BFs stalk her after she dumps them - likely the way she breaks up with them - If she views me that way, again another nail in the coffin. Trust is utmost importance to her.

 

Her 2 car garage has no windows... I'd have to hid in the woods with binoculars and see someone walking around the house or sit on the street waiting for a car to pull into the garage. Not a good idea.

 

Plus I could not spy on her when I have my daughter... I could only spy when she has my daughter - and more likely than not, she would not have BF over when my daughter is there.

 

Also, I could never prove the affair started before the legal separation... she doesn't consider herself to be my wife anymore, thus to her it would be ok now to have BF. Yet if I had a GF she would use that as a reason to not reconcile. A no win situation.

 

Her mother supports her 100% - seems being loved from OM is more important than morals and committment - she had an affair as well... Her father and brother live in another state.

 

Best thing to do for me is assume she has a BF and be a better friend, more responsible, more trustworthy to her that a BF would be. I have to regain what we had when we were dating.

 

 

I could not find much info on Plan A at marriagebuilders.com... can you give me a link or cut and paste here.

 

Owl I appreciate the help.

[Owl]

SD, try this as a start:

 

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

 

The carrot of Plan A

 

 

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

 

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

 

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

 

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

 

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

 

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

 

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

 

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

 

Offering forgiveness and understanding.

 

 

 

The stick of Plan A

 

 

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

 

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

 

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

 

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

 

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

 

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

 

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Friends?!?!?

 

Ha!!!

 

Friends dont do what she did and be cool after that!

 

Be a co-parent but if she's gonna continue to hurt your heart what's the point of being a friend?

[SingleDad]

Thanks OWL for Plan A.

 

Chrome - yeah, I know, how can I be friends after she rippped my heart out, chewed on it and spit it out...

 

unfortunately, it is either be friends or not be friends... which is better for my daughter ? Which has a ounce of hope in it - we certainly can't relate to each other without a friendship or communication.

 

I want my W in my life at some level, especially during the separation period , as I feel a moral wrong to date others... plus I am not ready.

[Ladyjane14]

If there is an affair...she's fighting like heck to keep it hidden in the dark. Affairs don't like being exposed to light...they shrivel up and die.

 

There's a whole concept around the idea of "exposure" that basically would bring the affair out in the open...and let her suffer the full consequences of the affair. It makes it a far less fun thing to be involved in, instead of the fantasy land it is when its a well kept secret.

 

I agree with you Owl, that taking the "fantasy" element out of an affair takes all the fun out of it. But, in regard to "exposure", I view that somewhat differently than what we find on 'that other board' where they tend to take a "scorch the earth" stance on it. That's why I warn people away from posting there.

 

Exposure can be a fine tool. But to my mind, it's a scalpel... not a bludgeon. Because SD is right, there's a trust issue on both sides of the conflict. From his WW's POV, this thing is OVER. She's separated, on her way to being divorced, and can do as she pleases. If he'd caught her before she left home, or even early on during the separation, confronting her with knowledge of the affair or exposing to her most key people might have done him some good.

 

You and I both know that a cheating spouse will go off like a ballistic missile once they're exposed. But when they're still invested, even just partially, in the primary relationship, this is recoverable. Once they're GONE... mind, body, and soul, I think the wounding of trust can easily outweigh the benefits of exposure.

 

At this point, I think his best bet is in using the same strategy one might use in taming a barn cat.... leave out a saucer of milk, and back off from a threatening stance.

 

 

Bluntly...women don't love someone they can't respect. And they can't respect someone that they can walk all over...giving in to your wife isn't going to win her back.

 

I'll ask LJ to back me up on this...I've heard rumors that she's a woman, and might even have a woman's viewpoint on this!

 

I'd say that works both ways. None of us want to live with a 'weakie' that we can walk on like a rug. Coming out strong at the beginning of an affair or separation scenario before moving to "Plan A" can work in our favor. Drawing a line in the sand and saying "this far and no further" can put the fear of no return into our recalcitrant mates. Afterall, this is what worked for you and it's what worked for me.

 

Once separation is well underway though, I don't think they respond to the line drawn in the sand. They're ALREADY doing things on their own and no longer fear permanently losing their betrayed spouse. It's kind of like the thug who first gets involved in the prison system and loses his awe of it.

 

The one concern I have though, and I'm not too sure how important it is ... is that sometimes a WS feels that they've made such a HUGE mistake in cheating that they can never be accepted back into the primary relationship again. Confronting with knowledge of an affair can put all this out in the open, so that for the betrayed spouse who would be willing to let bygones be bygones... can alleviate this fear in the WS.

[Darth Vader]

Come on Darth!

 

You and I have be "in-country" for years NOW!

 

You and I are " VETS"

 

You, LJ, 24A, Drroster, dgrill, a4a, jargrel, Lakesidedreams ~ we all know the drill. Lockstep! We all know the drill!

 

Count candence count!

 

"GI potatoes! GI gravey! GeeeeIeeeeed I wished I'd joined the Navy!

 

 

I don't do cadence! I do Saber Throws!

 

Anyway,

 

She expects me to respect each others privacy... To her that would be more damaging than an affair.

 

Yeah, RIIIGHT! (holds pinkey finger like Dr. Evil) What she's doing is she's gaslighting you so she can continue her affair with her OM, she doesn't care or love you. Is OM married? Contact his wife, let him have something to worry about! In the meantime, contact a Good Divorce Lawyer and get your ducks in a row!

[n9688m]

Personally, n...m, I think it's wrong to tell people they can't have hope about their own personal situation that has its own, personal set of circumstances. How do you know? Do you measure everyone else's experiences by what happened to you? If so, maybe you should start to think about why you do that. Perhaps you wish you hadn't given up so easily yourself? I don't know your situation at all, and I sincerely hope you are doing okay.

 

 

I say his situation is futile because in searching the archives here way way back and asking a bunch of time and speaking with people off the Forum, I have yet to see a situation like SD (or mine) which has successfully resulted in reconciliation. Not one. If you know otherwise, please share.

 

The only situations where there has been a glimmer of hope seem to be those where people like SD and myself have moved on and started dating and otherwise creating a new life and THEN sometimes the STBXW has second thoughts. But even then that virtually never results in a successful long-term reconciliation.

 

I am quite open to any examples you can give which would demonstrate my conclusions are incorrect.

[n9688m]

I feel a moral wrong to date others....

 

Do you think your STBXW wants you to not date?

 

If so, why?

[sharebear823]

n...m: What I do know is that there is a lot of NEW RESEARCH being done on the marriage counseling front.

 

What used to occur in counseling is that the spouses would be told to focus on their areas of conflict and try to resolve them. This had the effect of putting the conflicts front and center, so that most of the time the couple spent together was focused on working on the things that were broken in the relationship. That, in turn, left little time or energy to devote to the things that were working. Couples would just literally become sick and tired of each other because of all the hard work involved, and the constant focus on the problem areas made them feel as if the "solution" was causing even more pain, rather than fixing anything.

 

From what I can understand, the new direction in couples therapy is NOT to focus on the conflicts, but to build up the areas that bring the couple closer together, such as doing things together that are fun, and building more positive shared experiences into the mix. That is the premise of Marriage Builders, if I'm reading it right, as well as some of the other marriage counseling programs that are surfacing these days. These programs are offering much higher success rates, from what I've heard. I don't have statistics, but I'll make it my mission to dig some up to post here! My understanding is that, even if only one spouse is working these new tactics, it can and does help to bring couples back together.

 

There's a new book out by a Harvard psychologist, O'Connell or McConnell, I think, He was interviewed on NPR recently. His book is about the real benefits of long term marriages...I'll find out and post it here later...Anyway, all throughout the interview he talked about his success with helping couples navigate their problems, and he said one spouse having an affair was NOT something that scared him as far as chances for reconciliation for the couples dealing with that issue. He's successfully worked with countless couples who have recovered from that challenge.

 

Anyway, sorry for the gaps, but I'll research it, and find some stats to back it up, if possible.

[n9688m]

Anyway, all throughout the interview he talked about his success with helping couples navigate their problems, and he said one spouse having an affair was NOT something that scared him as far as chances for reconciliation for the couples dealing with that issue.

 

I agree that many marriages have successfully survived adultery.

 

But the situation I am facing and SD is facing is the "walkaway wife" syndrome where the wife not only walks away suddenly but also says she is not interested in fixing the marriage. That's the key point - if only one person is interested in fixing the marriage, then the situation is futile. If you know of an example to the contrary then yes I would be interested in learning more about it.

[sharebear823]

Hi n...m:

 

After about 2 hours' research, I'm coming up empty on every front. There are lots of sources out there in cyberland that claim it is possible to bring back a "walkaway" wife, but no hard numbers are to be found, at least as far as I can tell.

 

However, my husband was the "walkaway" in my situation. We are just in the talking stages now, and it's by no means a sure bet that we will get back together, but five years after he left, we are attempting to meet each other half way.

 

I do not know if a walkaway husband is more likely to come back than a walkaway wife. What I do know for a fact is that time heals, counseling helps, and both spouses need to admit they were wrong and take responsibility for their part. My husband wanted to come back to the marriage after a year of separation, but it took me close to five years to forgive him for walking out in the first place. Now I see that it couldn't have happened any other way, and that realization is what is paving the way for our attempt at reconciliation.

 

I will keep looking for more information. Perhaps I can ask my marriage counselor if she knows of any statistics.

 

Anyways, I'm sorry if I misunderstood, and I sincerely feel for you and your situation, as well as SD and everyone else on here.

 

Best wishes!

[sharebear823]

It may not be true that a walkaway husband can be compared to a walkaway wife. If they are more alike than different, then what brought my husband back to the "bargaining table" with me may be relevant to this thread. If not, well, at least you know I'm trying to help!

 

* Counseling, counseling, and more counseling...I learned to take responsibility for the consequences of my actions in individual counseling. I invited my husband to a session, in which I explained a key component of our problems from my own perspective and apologized for my role in damaging our relationship. This was KEY to opening the door to his willingness to consider coming back. We started marriage counseling after maybe two years apart.

 

* Time away. We both needed to see what it was like to live without each other in order to realize that many aspects of life are sweeter, particularly when there are children involved, when they can be shared with a spouse who has the same history. Also, we wanted to be able to give our children the "gift" of our togetherness (SORRY if that sounds unbelievably corny, but it's true) for holidays, vacations, and other important events. That is, frankly, irreplaceable. There is no one else who can stand in for that aspect. (By the way, I played this card as often as possible, and it worked, because he agreed with me!)

 

* Forgiveness. We both had to forgive each other for not being the person we promised to be when we were married. This proved to be a lot harder for me than I thought it would be, since I felt entitled to my anger because he was the one who left. However, I finally realized that he HAD to leave, and he needed to here my explanations and understand things a lot better from my perspective in order to forgive me for my part, and that was another KEY element in paving our way back to each other.

 

* Communication skills. This cannot be emphasized enough!! Treat your spouse with respect and always conduct yourself with dignity NO MATTER WHAT. Always give him or her the benefit of the doubt. I was absolutely HORRIBLE at this because of all of my anger. When I finally decided (very recently, and this went hand in hand with forgiveness) I wanted to treat him better because I could no longer stand myself, and then he did the same with me, things started to improve.

 

* A willingness to leave the past in the past and build a new relationship based on NOW, rather than clinging to what we used to have. (This is the present struggle, more than anything...CAN we start anew, or is that just too hard after all that's gone before?)

 

* Patience. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. As I said, my spouse "walked away" five years ago. All of this progress that we have made has taken every minute of that time to get to the point where we are right now. If we had married someone else or moved to a distant state, we probably never would have gotten to this point.

 

* The belief that your life will be okay either way. If you truly live as if your life will be okay whether or not you get back together with your spouse, then you will take better care of yourself and treat yourself well. Start a new hobby or renew your commitment to an old one. Keep yourself busy doing things that will make you a better, more interesting person.

 

* Never fall prey to addictions. Living a healthy, productive life will allow the spouse to see you as healthy and stable...someone he or she will be able to count on to be there for the long haul. I still struggle with this one every day, but every day I think it's a little bit better than the day before. I used to just think my life was completely ruined beyond repair and blamed him for it. Major pity party going on there, with lots of overspending, overeating, etc. Now I take responsibility for myself, and that has worked out much, much better, for both of us. Blaming anyone else for your life is a real deal-breaker, I think, no matter how tempting that might seem, and no matter how much "evidence" you have for your case! ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF AND DO NOT BLAME YOUR SPOUSE FOR YOUR PROBLEMS!!

 

* If at all possible, try to have fun and laugh with your spouse whenever you get the opportunity. Adding more and more pleasant and agreeable experiences to the mix is a very good thing. I think of it as sort of "diluting" the bad stuff, over time. This is similar to the "love bank" concept, I think.

 

Well, that's it in a nutshell. I hope it helps a little to clarify things for anyone. I'm wishing everyone the best results possible for your particular situation!

[Gunny376]

Simply outstanding and very useful information SB823~ Hope to see you post more ~ your information is most helpful, insightful, and thought provoking.

 

And I can tell from having read it that it has come to you through many a year of hard personal experience, counseling, reading, and research.

 

Its my personal belief that the reason so many marriages fail, is simpley isbecause of a lack of education as to how to make a marriage work in the 21st century in the modern Western world.

 

When it comes to marriage in the moderinized Western world, we're still applying rules of marriage (or concepts thereof) that go back 70 years or more in a much change world from that of 30 years ago.

 

Not to go off topic, but I'm following CNN's "Black In America" series, and as a white Southern American ~ I'm just freaking blowed away by it. I just didn't know ~ less little comprehend.

 

I'm 51 years old ~ and it bothers me that if I'm this freaking ignorant about how my fellow Americans are having to live Life ~ about what I don't know about when it comes to inter-personal relationships when it comes to being married?

[sharebear823]

Coming from you, that means quite a lot! I've admired your comments, as well, and especially the very honorable way you conduct your life. It seems to me you shoot not only from the hip, but simultaneously from your heart and brain as well. Cheers!

[Gunny376]

Coming from you, that means quite a lot! I've admired your comments, as well, and especially the very honorable way you conduct your life. It seems to me you shoot not only from the hip, but simultaneously from your heart and brain as well. Cheers!

 

 

I doubt you've ever noticed, but comparred to the Army, you don't see Marines wearing a lot of patches, tabs, whatever? Compared to an Army uniform? Marines don't wear a lot of this and that.

 

The reason?

 

Marines earn everything they wear on their uniform. The Army used to call women in the Army WACS, the Navy WAV's ~ the Marines? ~ Called them Women Marines. WM's (Women Marines have to go through the same things that male Marines do~ with some modification for pull ups because of bi-laterial muscle development, i.e. ~ breast:p)

 

 

I have a lolt admiriation for WM's! (Women Marines) They're HARD CORPS!

[n9688m]

It may not be true that a walkaway husband can be compared to a walkaway wife. If they are more alike than different, then what brought my husband back to the "bargaining table" with me may be relevant to this thread. If not, well, at least you know I'm trying to help!

 

Thanks - much appreciated.

 

 

It does sound from you and from others that if there is any healer, it is time. But wow - 5 years is an incredibly long time. I can't possibly imagine that I won't have moved on emotionally by that time.

 

Here's a question - do you think your ex truly loves you and is thrilled to be with you or do you think in 5 years he simply figured out there weren't any better opportunities? I guess what I am saying is that as much as I was really happy in my marriage, if my STBXW doesn't really enjoy being with me (actually LOVE being with me), then why do I want to be with her?

 

As for forgiving someone for "having" to leave, I'm puzzled at that one. My STBXW literally had sex with me one day while telling me she wants to be with me forever and then the next day wanted a divorce. Why did she "have to" leave rather than making a credible effort at counseling? Why didn't your ex try counseling before leaving? And most importantly, even if miraculously she did a 180 today and wanted me back, how could I possibly trust that she would never do it again?

[sharebear823]

Q. "Here's a question - do you think your ex truly loves you and is thrilled to be with you or do you think in 5 years he simply figured out there weren't any better opportunities? I guess what I am saying is that as much as I was really happy in my marriage, if my STBXW doesn't really enjoy being with me (actually LOVE being with me), then why do I want to be with her?"

 

A. The short answer is, we'll see. I don't know for sure. As with most things, the long answer is much more complicated, but I will do my best to explain.

 

For all intents and purposes, it is as if we are starting over our relationship from scratch. The way it will work (if we decide to go ahead) is that we are going to be like any other couple that is just beginning to date, getting to know each other all over again, and (hopefully) starting to form a relationship, bit by bit. We are going to take it day to day, literally one date at a time, and see where that takes us.

 

As far as whether he is settling because he discovered there are no other fish in the sea, not because he really loves me, well, I won't agree to take him back unless I can believe at that time that I truly love him and he truly loves me and wants to be with me and only me. I'm not at that point right now, and neither is he, and we will be taking baby steps to see if we can get there.

 

I don't think it would be even possible for us to just pick up where we left off before. I can't imagine doing that, it would be way too fast. We literally have been so out of touch with each other for so long, physically speaking as well as every other way, that we are like strangers. For one example, last week he asked me for a hug for the first time in about three or four years, and I was afraid of how I would feel! I decided to monitor my reaction just to see if my body was giving me any clues, like "Don't go there" or anything. (Luckily, I thought it felt good and safe.)

 

Essentially, in my case it amounts to us deciding to take the time to see if it is possible for us to fall in love with each other. We are taking baby steps because it is really scary. At the same time, we both know what is at stake, and neither of us wants to hurt the other more, so we are extra cautious with each others' feelings. As with any new relationship, maybe it will work out and maybe it won't, and only time will tell.

 

 

Q. "As for forgiving someone for "having" to leave, I'm puzzled at that one. My STBXW literally had sex with me one day while telling me she wants to be with me forever and then the next day wanted a divorce. Why did she "have to" leave rather than making a credible effort at counseling? Why didn't your ex try counseling before leaving? And most importantly, even if miraculously she did a 180 today and wanted me back, how could I possibly trust that she would never do it again?"

 

 

A. Regarding "having to leave," my situation was very different from yours, I think. My husband and I had stopped sleeping together for years prior to the day he left. I had begged him to go to counseling for all of that time, and he refused (I think perhaps because of the same reason you guys don't ever want to ask directions when you're lost!)

 

I really didn't understand that part, as I saw the marriage disintegrating right before my eyes. That is clearly different from your situation. Even with that, I never expected him to leave, though. In retrospect, I shouldn't have been surprised by it, but I was deeply and profoundly shocked when he suddenly left. However, we were fighting a lot, and it was so hard on the children. That is what I mean when I say he "had" to leave...he had to leave in order to protect the children from witnessing the rage I projected at my husband when he said he wanted out of the marriage.

 

Regarding the trust issue, that is a hard one. I can't ever know that he won't leave again several years down the road. However, neither can I know that anyone else I might someday fall in love with wouldn't suddenly pick up and leave. It's all a bit of a gamble, no matter who you're with, and there just are not any guarantees that it won't happen no matter who you're with, unfortunately. Otherwise, if it could be predicted in advance, none of us would have chosen the spouse we ended up with. Would that it were something that could be predicted! Having said that, now that we are at this point, I believe I've learned so much about how not to get into that situation again. I think we really have a much better shot at it this time, and if it doesn't happen to work with him, then whomever I get to be with will have the benefit of that hard-won knowledge I've gained since he walked away.

 

One other thing I want to add regarding this is that I needed a "wake-up call" because I was clueless as to how my own actions were damaging the marriage. I'm not saying it was all my fault, not be any means. But, it wasn't all his fault, either. It took me a long time to really recognize how my stuff contributed to the decline of the marriage. Truly, it took him leaving and then a lot of counseling. I just wasn't into taking responsibility for my part. His leaving *forced* me to look at that. When I finally saw, and took responsibility, then the healing could start. If I'd never gotten that insight, through counseling, then we never could have been at this point right now. If I had seen it before he left, he probably would not have "had to leave" at all.

 

I hope my answers help, and please feel free to ask me absolutely anything you want, as I sincerely hope that my experience can be of use to others in some way.

[dead-dyke]

Sharebear,

 

I'm just watching from the sidelines, and I for one appreciate your frankness regarding your marriage. Thanks. You've shed light not only on singledads' case, but probably countless others. Every little bit helps.

[SingleDad]

Lot's of activity on this thread ove the weekend - I'll have to catch-up.

 

n9688m - I think STBXW wants me to date ? Said once she wants me to be happy (well then don't divorce me!!) maybe she feels guilty for what she has done... I really do no know..

 

But I do know if i move on and she wants back, having had a GF during the separation would hurt against me... So I expect to avoid dating for now. But I am learning again how to live a single life... and I just now seem to be getting more parenting time as my STBXW has become too busy to watch our daughter... I'll express that on my parenting thread... says it's because of work and not being able to get things done... whatever !!??

[n9688m]

n9688m - I think STBXW wants me to date

 

Then the moral issue is resolved.

 

But I do know if i move on and she wants back, having had a GF during the separation would hurt against me...

 

Not at all - dating now might make you more desirable to her.

 

Also if you to reconcile and have both had relationships, then you won't later feel the urge to have your own affair as "revenge." It will be balanced.

[SingleDad]

Not my morals... they remain intact... and I hope to keep them that way...

 

Besides now, How do I have time to date ???. My STBXW gave my daughter back to me on Saturday - as she couldn't "get anything done" and now gave her to me tonight and tomorrow night and I still have Wed and Thurs. So convenient for me to make her schedule free to do as she pleases, isn't it ?

 

I still do not know if she is seeing anyone... but she certainly has the free time !!!???

 

I was expecting that I would get more time with my daughter as my STBXW found other interests... maybe it is now starting ?

[n9688m]

Not my morals... they remain intact...

 

If your STBXW does not feel you have a monogamous commitment to her now, then why is there a moral argument against dating? I don't understand.

 

Besides now, How do I have time to date ???. My STBXW gave my daughter back to me on Saturday - as she couldn't "get anything done" and now gave her to me tonight and tomorrow night and I still have Wed and Thurs. So convenient for me to make her schedule free to do as she pleases, isn't it ?

 

You have a custody schedule. Stick to it except for clear extenuating circumstances that arise.

 

You are working against your goal, not for it. You are letting her have her cake and eat it too. She has the benefits of your being her friend and at-will babysitter but not the obligations that go along with marriage. You are enabling her. Draw a line and make it clear she can't have it both ways.