Divorce 101

[Order & Chaos]

I agree with Order and Chaos - the attorneys we used were fighting from the extreme positions, against the wishes of both my Ex and myself. Divorce attorney's job is to make money for themselves - don't kid yourself. If you know what your rights and entitlements are, and can work through the issues, you will save a tremendous amount of money using a mediator.

 

Gunny - you advice is important to know to defend against an unscrupulous Ex. - but not all divorces need to be as cruel as that.

 

And I do believe that some marrriages can be saved. One should prepare themselves for either potential outcome.

 

Absolutely! I am not saying to not cover all bases, knowledge is power, but expecting for one certain outcome will make it inevitable that it will happen.

 

Things can be done amicable on all ends. You can't control the other party and can't say for certain that they will always take the high road but at least you can know that you conducted in the most mature and respectful manner and go from there. Look at Leo's thread for a clear example how one should conduct themselves.

[Gunny376]

Absolutely! I am not saying to not cover all bases, knowledge is power, but expecting for one certain outcome will make it inevitable that it will happen.

 

Things can be done amicable on all ends. You can't control the other party and can't say for certain that they will always take the high road but at least you can know that you conducted in the most mature and respectful manner and go from there. Look at Leo's thread for a clear example how one should conduct themselves.

 

 

Leo'x STBXW hasn't "lawyerd-up" yet, she will not slip easily into lower middle class status without a fight!

[Order & Chaos]

Leo'x STBXW hasn't "lawyerd-up" yet, she will not slip easily into lower middle class status without a fight!

 

I'm sorry, are you physic?

 

That, I'm sure, is a possibility as is the chance that she will get over the initial impact, show some contrition, and resolve things as well as possible. My use of his thread is how he has conducted himself. He is being the most fair, respectful, and mature, in an awful situation. She might fight him out, but his goal right now is to try and resolve things so there isn't utter bitterness between the two parties. That is admirable. He could easily turn to bitterness and anger but he is continuing to take the high road and maintain some sense of equality. That is something to admire in someone, not a vengeful winner takes all attitude.

 

He also isn't rolling over and playing the victim which it sounds like so many do here. He is trying to keep things equal, not giving everything to the spouse, to be "the martyr" so there will be less bitterness in the future. He is being true to himself, his views of his vows, his children, and the remaining respect that he has for the woman that has been his wife. That shows amazing character and something he should be proud of for the rest of his days. Sure he could take her to the cleaners, but at the end of the day, the win is pretty hollow.

[Gunny376]

I commed Leo and his approach toward his pending divorce, ~ his whole entire atitude toward his situation.

 

But,...............................his wife is not going to go from the lifestyle she's enjoyed the last 20+ years to that of lower middle class (at best) or lower without screaming, fighting, and clawing!

 

Case in point ~ the Betty Brondrick case. The former husband set her up with a house on Malibu Beach, a Mercedes, and $2K a month in alimony and she still screamed like a "raped ape" that the settlement wasn't fair

[Order & Chaos]

I commed Leo and his approach toward his pending divorce, ~ his whole entire atitude toward his situation.

 

But,...............................his wife is not going to go from the lifestyle she's enjoyed the last 20+ years to that of lower middle class (at best) or lower without screaming, fighting, and clawing!

 

Case in point ~ the Betty Brondrick case. The former husband set her up with a house on Malibu Beach, a Mercedes, and $2K a month in alimony and she still screamed like a "raped ape" that the settlement wasn't fair

 

Sure there are cases where this has happened. But there are many cases where it didn't. I can show a case where a husband found out about a wife's affair and killed her. That doesn't extrapolate that all husbands will kill their wives.

 

Taking one case and overgeneralizing it is fraught with error and it is just laziness. Also unless you know the nuances of the above case it may or may not be fair. Depending on the wealth generated during the marriage it may not be a fair division of assets. To be honest in my area that isn't an atypical pay out and it is definitely not somethingn that is that amazing. It is definitely decent but isn't unheard of. Also with the median income in Malibu beach, I would say that probably an okay settlement.

 

Again, you have to look at all the details to fully judge a situation.

[dgiirl]

Sorry Gunny, but I really disagree with the wording of the original thread. I did not read it in it's entirety, it was _way_ too long, but I read most and skimmed the rest and all that kept poppping up was "It's WAR" and ways of getting out of paying child support. What kind of parent SCHEMES their way out of paying child support for their OWN CHILD?! If you really think it's ok to avoid paying child support, then you really do deserve to be brought to court.

 

Although I do agree with the statement that one should protect yourself, document everything, and dont expect complete fairness, the way the thread is written is to get emotions all riled up, and that's the VERY last thing you need in a divorce. If you want to "WIN" this so called war, then you need to keep your emotions in tact. All of your emotions, all your hurt, fear, anger and love. You need to be able to think clearly, and you simply cant do that when you're hoping for your ex to come back, nor can you do that when you want to seek revenge.

 

When I was going through a divorce, I called up 4 divorce lawyers for a quote on an amicable divorce. The first 3 egged me on over the phone calling my ex a nasty guy and trying all their might to anger me over my ex's adultery. The last one kept cool and just stood with the facts and even calmed ME down from getting angry. His flat fee for an amicable divorce was the most expensive one compared to the others. I hired the last one. I wanted a lawyer who was going to do all he could to keep the situation as amicable as possible.

 

For me, the steps for Divorce 101 was "Do protect yourself! But dont do anything stupid that could cause problems in the eyes of the court". My ex said he wanted a divorce and moved out the very next day.

 

1) I changed the locks of the house. He had his own living arrangements, so my logic was he has his own sanctuary that I had no access to, it's only fair that I have the same space. Plus, I didnt really feel comfortable living in a house alone not 100% sure of my husband's mental state of mind. (The way he left was pretty crazy)

 

However, I never withheld anything personal from my ex. He was able to come over upon a reasonable scheduled appointment during the day to pack up any of his personal belongings like his personal computer (we had multiple so it wasnt really an asset), or clothes.

 

Upon removing ANYTHING from the house, I made him sign a letter stating what he was removing. I wanted to make sure that he could never claim he never received such and such. I wanted a record of everything.

 

2) I kept track of our joint bank accounts. Our accounts were already divided up between his account, my account, and our account. I never had access to his account, but he always had full access to my account. I removed him from my account, at least I had set aside a portion of our money that I had complete control over, and I kept close eye on our joint bank account. Fair is fair. I asked him several times to close OUR joint bank account because the money remaining in that account was his. I also asked him for and received full disclosure on the balances of his account on the day he moved out. Everything after the day he moved out was ours respectively, but up to the day he moved out was OURS and should be divided equally in half 50/50. His AND mine. If the courts felt otherwise, at least there was documentation stating what was our asset allocation on the day he moved out.

 

3) Since I was living in the house, I got all the bills transfered into my name. We both made almost equal money, the hydro and cable and heating were bills I could easily take on myself. Since he had his own rent and expenses to pay, I was better off to pay the bills for the home and let him deal with his own rent. I also didnt want to give him any incentive to move back into the home. Plus he moved out on his own accord. I felt this would be looked kindly upon by the courts, was a good gesture towards him, and I benefited from the situation too.

 

However, property taxes and mortgage was split equally in half. Since we would be selling the house and the proceeds would be divided in half, he had an obligation to pay property taxes and mortgage.

 

4) I seeked individual legal representation. Although my ex wanted to get a mediator and wanted desperately to keep our divorce as amicable as possible, which I was in full agreement to, I still wanted to get separate objective advice on my rights. I initially went to a lawyer just to see what my legal rights were. Like I said above, when calling for quotes, I had to weed out the sharks, but I felt comfortable with my lawyer. I knew if push comes to shove and things DO get ugly, I was protected. I knew my lawyer COULD fight for me if he needed to, but I knew that was his LAST resort. He planned out how much I would be entitled to, he also gave me a quote to how much I could be lenient on, ie if things went to court, it could easily cost me 10k or more. So I could have a grace of 5-10k which I could give him more. Sure it wouldnt be exactly 50/50, BUT it would cost me at least that much just to get 50/50 and is it really worth it in the big scheme of things.

 

I also advised my ex to seek legal representation. After a lot of resistance, he FINALLY did. I wanted to make sure I wasnt going to take complete advantage of him, but I wasnt comfortable doing this together.

 

After talking with both our respective lawyers, my ex and I did ALL of the negotiations. It was the ONLY way to keep expenses low. I freely gave him stuff that was sentimental to him and he did the same with me. We didnt really bicker over any of the assets expect the money. He seemed to believe that because he made more money, he should be able to walk away with more money. ALL I wanted was 50/50. So we both threw out ALL the cards. I claimed all the monetary gifts I received from family which goes 100% to me. I also claimed interest on the loans I gave to him for his personal practice. He came up with other, in my opinion underhanded, methods to balance it in his favor. At the end of the day, it was STILL 50/50, what I had agreed upon from day one.

 

At the time, I was losing my husband, who I was deeply in love with. I wanted to make sure 3 years later, I wouldnt have felt I was taken advantage of, and at the same time, I wanted to be able to live with myself and not feel I took advantage of him either. Three years later, I believe I've been able to achieve that. I would not have changed a single thing. I firmly believe I did exactly what I should have during my divorce. I didnt get vindictive, I didnt give him any reason to be vindictive. I might have used guilt from time to time to my benefit, but I stayed firm on what I truly believed was right. I also gave where it wouldnt have cost me. I documented EVERY thing. Our divorce was negotiated via email on purpose. It was a method that gave me time to be absolutely sure I was ok with the agreement. I knew I would have been bound to what I agreed upon, just like him. And so emotions were controlled and we has as much as I think of an amicable divorce as possible. We never had kids, and I'm sure that would have been uglier. But divorce doesnt have to be ugly. If you dont subcomb to the temptation of seeking revenge, at least not until the divorce is 100% final, which hopefully by then you'll have moved on, and always maintain that your self respect is worth a LOT more than getting ugly, you can have an amicable divorce. It doesnt mean you forgive your spouse, nor do you have to agree with what they've done, but you can walk away knowing in a time where you hurt the most, you were honorable. Three years later, the towels and china set and tv system mean absolutely nothing. Chances are, you'll want them replaced anyways.

[Gunny376]

Again, I re-interarte the reason I stated this thread was to show how crazy divorce can get.

 

Your post dgriil is exactally the counter-oppossite of my original post.

 

My point in intitating this thread was in showing folks there is a middle ground ~ but to do so I first had to play the "devil's advocate"

 

Good post BTW!

[Order & Chaos]

Again, I re-interarte the reason I stated this thread was to show how crazy divorce can get.

 

Your post dgriil is exactally the counter-oppossite of my original post.

 

My point in intitating this thread was in showing folks there is a middle ground ~ but to do so I first had to play the "devil's advocate"

 

Good post BTW!

 

Well I think your point may have been lost on the masses and the revenge attitude came across loud and clear.

 

I think everyone knows how crazy divorce can be, what lilttle is known or shown is how mature and respectful one can make it. But then that isn't as sensational or exciting as the crazy ones. I am convinced that the average person, to a degree, revels in other's misery, and feeds off of the negative energy that comes out of high drama and emotion. Sane, rational, and respectful just isn't exciting.