Does marriage kill passion???

[silktricks]

It was posed in another thread that marriage kills the passion in a relationship. What do you think? If you believe it does kill the passion, do you intend to marry the MM you are with and why?

[Tripper]

Marriage doesn't kill passion; the nitty gritty details of daily life does if you allow it to. The "toilette seat up vs down, the cap off the toothpaste the take out the garbage" stuff.

 

Affairs aren't real life. They are stolen moments without out the crapola I listed above.

 

Marrying the affair partner moves the relationship into real life and at that point you have as much chance of the relationship surviving as any other.

[porter218]

Marriage doesn't kill passion; the nitty gritty details of daily life does if you allow it to. The "toilette seat up vs down, the cap off the toothpaste the take out the garbage" stuff.

 

Affairs aren't real life. They are stolen moments without out the crapola I listed above.

 

Marrying the affair partner moves the relationship into real life and at that point you have as much chance of the relationship surviving as any other.

I have always wondered if any of the MM participating in the A have realized this.

 

But no Marriage doesn't kill passion, lazy people do. You are never supposed to stop "dating" your spouse after the wedding. A lot of people get complacent and lazy and forget to do those small things to keep passion alive.

[NoIDidn't]

Anyone that believes that marriage kills passion is just against marriage, IMO.

 

Life gets in the way. No matter how much you try to keep it from doing so.

 

Not to mention, psychologists have already researched to death the fact that ALL committed (married and otherwise, as Lizzie can attest to after spending 18 years with a guy not married) relationships go into a cooling down period.

 

So, short answer, no, marriage does not kill passion.

[OWoman]

It was posed in another thread that marriage kills the passion in a relationship. What do you think? If you believe it does kill the passion, do you intend to marry the MM you are with and why?

 

Silk I've been resisting getting drawn into that discussion because this is a very real concern to me. I've heard it said that the reason marriage kills passion is that you're now having sex with a relative, and while that's obviously facetiously meant, there are enough self-help books on the market (Mating in Captivity being one that received a lot of press coverage out here) to suggest that that's not just a groundless cliche.

 

My reasons for intending to marry MM (assuming we're not all dead of old age long before his W finally signs the D...) are on record - visas, work permits, administrative requirements rather than romantic ideals.

 

But because of the history of our R, we're both toggled to the possibilities of depassionation, and determined to resist it at all costs. How successful we'll be I guess only time will tell...

[Ronni_W]

I read someplace that "passion requires two elements: purpose and sacrifice" (being from Latin 'passio' -- to suffer), which got me to thinking:

I'd use the words 'mystery' and 'surrender' as necessary ingredients for REAL, all-consuming, hold-me-in-the-flames passion.

 

But the intimacy and openness that we also look for in our romantic relationships put the kaibosh on all of it...purpose, sacrifice/surrender and mystery.

 

So no, IMO, it's not "marriage" that kills passion -- it's that our marital/relationship expectations are all conflicted...we want fiery passion AND intimacy; the whole ugly truth AND mystery. And we do not like sacrificing and surrendering.

 

Yikes. Now I've gone and depressed myself

[silktricks]

I personally don't believe that marriage kills passion. I don't even think it's the "day to day" garbage we live through that kills it. I think it's our society and the way society tells us we are supposed to think and feel and behave.

 

It was only about a hundred years ago that young women as they got married were told sex was their "duty". They wouldn't enjoy it but they had to "do" it. The 60's supposedly liberated women so that we could own up to the fact that we enjoyed sex just as much as men do, but still we are bombarded constantly through every media there is that passionate marriage is somehow "bad". Look at the commercials on TV. They portray the woman not as her husbands partner, but more like his mother. TV and movies don't show most married couples as passionate. For sure I don't want to be my man's mother. I want to be his partner and passionate partner in all facets of his and my life.

 

But it's a constant fight to not get swept up into what society expects of us and keep true to our own lives. JMO.

[OWoman]

Marriage doesn't kill passion; the nitty gritty details of daily life does if you allow it to. The "toilette seat up vs down, the cap off the toothpaste the take out the garbage" stuff.

 

Affairs aren't real life. They are stolen moments without out the crapola I listed above.

 

Marrying the affair partner moves the relationship into real life and at that point you have as much chance of the relationship surviving as any other.

 

Tripper your analysis may hold for the fantasy, stolen moments type A, but there are plenty of other As that are very much daily grind of reality based. And no, passion running out has nothing to do (IME anyway) with toilet seats or toothpaste caps or garbage - it has to do with knowing that his next move is to touch you there, or that if you do x he'll respond with y, or that if you suggest something new he'll go along with it but take it as some kind of vote of no confidence in his abilities and require compensatory reassurance that he really is the best you've ever had. There is nothing IMO worse than predictable sex! It kills passion faster than holey green underpants.

 

If toilet seats or toothpaste caps were that big a deal in my life I'd address them head on and make some plan around them (separate bathrooms, anyone?) but frankly to my mind those things being problems in a R signal some far worse failures of communication. I reckon those are symptoms of a dead R rather than causes which may contribute to a healthy R dying.

[porter218]

Silk I've been resisting getting drawn into that discussion because this is a very real concern to me. I've heard it said that the reason marriage kills passion is that you're now having sex with a relative, and while that's obviously facetiously meant, there are enough self-help books on the market (Mating in Captivity being one that received a lot of press coverage out here) to suggest that that's not just a groundless cliche.

 

My reasons for intending to marry MM (assuming we're not all dead of old age long before his W finally signs the D...) are on record - visas, work permits, administrative requirements rather than romantic ideals.

 

But because of the history of our R, we're both toggled to the possibilities of depassionation, and determined to resist it at all costs. How successful we'll be I guess only time will tell...

 

You shouldn't worry too much OWoman. All you have to do is pay attention to the times that you feel the happiest with your man, and realize why you are so happy. Whatever it was that you guys were doing during those moments continue doing it. Whatever made you happy then isn't just going to cease making you happy after you walk down the aisle. People just often forget what it was that drew them to their mate in the first place.

[Trialbyfire]

No, marriage doesn't kill passion, people kill passion.

[NoIDidn't]

I read someplace that "passion requires two elements: purpose and sacrifice" (being from Latin 'passio' -- to suffer), which got me to thinking:

I'd use the words 'mystery' and 'surrender' as necessary ingredients for REAL, all-consuming, hold-me-in-the-flames passion.

 

But the intimacy and openness that we also look for in our romantic relationships put the kaibosh on all of it...purpose, sacrifice/surrender and mystery.

 

So no, IMO, it's not "marriage" that kills passion -- it's that our marital/relationship expectations are all conflicted...we want fiery passion AND intimacy; the whole ugly truth AND mystery. And we do not like sacrificing and surrendering.

 

Yikes. Now I've gone and depressed myself

 

 

Complicated, but well said. That's exactly what the psychologists have been saying. We want to be completely known and yet completely mysterious.

 

Can't have it both ways.

 

So, in the quest for being known, we kill the mystery...and with it, the passion.

 

BUT, I think we just made an argument that marriage DOES, in fact, kill passion. Marriage seeks that intimacy not the mystery.

 

Now my head is hurting.....LOL

[OWoman]

I read someplace that "passion requires two elements: purpose and sacrifice" (being from Latin 'passio' -- to suffer), which got me to thinking:

I'd use the words 'mystery' and 'surrender' as necessary ingredients for REAL, all-consuming, hold-me-in-the-flames passion.

 

But the intimacy and openness that we also look for in our romantic relationships put the kaibosh on all of it...purpose, sacrifice/surrender and mystery.

 

So no, IMO, it's not "marriage" that kills passion -- it's that our marital/relationship expectations are all conflicted...we want fiery passion AND intimacy; the whole ugly truth AND mystery. And we do not like sacrificing and surrendering.

 

Yikes. Now I've gone and depressed myself

 

Ronni I don't see those as contradictory - nor even antithetical. Unless one, or both, of the parties stagnates - and I guess that's a very real risk in any R which gets too comfortable - there will always be growth and change, always new mystery to be plumbed and fathomed and explored, leading to ever-greater mystery. I think it's at the point where we think we fully know our partner, where we imagine we can anticipate their thoughts or desires, that the passion starts wilting - either because we're wrong, and relying on our own assumptions rather than doing the plumbing and fathoming and exploring, or because we're right and we've reached the bottom of what's there to be uncovered. In which case, IMO, game over - you've solved the puzzle, there are no further levels to reach, record your score and move on.

 

But that's by no means inevitable - and if stagnation happening, that should be a wake up call all round unless you want to live out your days on Prozac and tepid cups of tea.

[Tripper]

Tripper your analysis may hold for the fantasy, stolen moments type A, but there are plenty of other As that are very much daily grind of reality based. And no, passion running out has nothing to do (IME anyway) with toilet seats or toothpaste caps or garbage - it has to do with knowing that his next move is to touch you there, or that if you do x he'll respond with y, or that if you suggest something new he'll go along with it but take it as some kind of vote of no confidence in his abilities and require compensatory reassurance that he really is the best you've ever had. There is nothing IMO worse than predictable sex! It kills passion faster than holey green underpants.

 

If toilet seats or toothpaste caps were that big a deal in my life I'd address them head on and make some plan around them (separate bathrooms, anyone?) but frankly to my mind those things being problems in a R signal some far worse failures of communication. I reckon those are symptoms of a dead R rather than causes which may contribute to a healthy R dying.

 

 

Passion in marriage goes beyond sex. It goes into such things as how you live your lives. Demands by society, employers etc. create an environment where we get swept up in how we ought to live, how much money we ought to make, how many hours we ought to work etc.

 

I'll admit I've been lucky in that the early and mid years of my career have put me in a position where I make a fairly good salary with a lot of control over my schedule. But when we you come home from a job you may not love to a partner, who has come home from a job they don't like and you don't prioritize properly then stress creeps into your home life and passion may start to die.

 

Unless you're curing cancer or feeding the starving masses etc., how important is your employers business really? I love my job but in the final analysis I do my work and get on with the passionate part of my life..

 

And while we all want the mind blowing, life altering sex.. the reality is that after that you still have to live your life for the other 22 hours of the day.

[OpenBook]

And while we all want the mind blowing, life altering sex.. the reality is that after that you still have to live your life for the other 22 hours of the day.

 

:lmao: Two hours a day for sex... Tripper you're a lucky, lucky man.

[porter218]

:lmao: Two hours a day for sex... Tripper you're a lucky, lucky man.

There you go. That is another secret to a good marriage!

[Tripper]

:lmao: Two hours a day for sex... Tripper you're a lucky, lucky man.

 

I am, indeed, and I know it. I'm partnered with the most amazing woman...

[OWoman]

Passion in marriage goes beyond sex. It goes into such things as how you live your lives. Demands by society, employers etc. create an environment where we get swept up in how we ought to live, how much money we ought to make, how many hours we ought to work etc.

 

I'll admit I've been lucky in that the early and mid years of my career have put me in a position where I make a fairly good salary with a lot of control over my schedule. But when we you come home from a job you may not love to a partner, who has come home from a job they don't like and you don't prioritize properly then stress creeps into your home life and passion may start to die.

 

Unless you're curing cancer or feeding the starving masses etc., how important is your employers business really? I love my job but in the final analysis I do my work and get on with the passionate part of my life..

 

And while we all want the mind blowing, life altering sex.. the reality is that after that you still have to live your life for the other 22 hours of the day.

 

Indeed it does in any R - but I believe that sex is the most intimate level of communication in a R and is thus a good measure for the overall health of the communication in the R. If sex is mechanical and predictable, how sure can you be that you're actually HEARING your partner when they're speaking?

 

My work is incredibly important to me - I've always chosen careers that allow me to live out my values and attain goals that I can be proud of each day, and I've defined myself largely in terms of my professional identity. My partner has too and his passion for and dedication to his work is one of the things that attracts me to him. That passion adds to, rather than subtracts from, the passion in our R, as we're both passionate about the same things and it spills over into all aspects of our togetherness. If I got a job at McDonalds and hated it, that may well change the mood I bring home but only if I felt trapped and unable to exercise agency in my life (leave the crap job, find another) would it impact on the dynamic of the R.

 

We've gone through some patches of outside difficulty, placing demands on us and increasing stress levels but instead of that eroding passion, it increased it. Closing the door on the rest of the world and finding meaning with each other has led to the significance of those outside demands waning, the passion flaring up and energy levels soaring.

 

Tripper, I've no idea how old you are but if you're only getting two hours sex per day you're getting wayyy too much sleep!

[Tripper]

Indeed it does in any R - but I believe that sex is the most intimate level of communication in a R and is thus a good measure for the overall health of the communication in the R.

 

Agreed!!

 

OW, it sounds as if you have a good grip on your life and keep it in balance.

 

From my own experiences it's when you lose the balance that your R suffers the most.

 

Tripper, I've no idea how old you are but if you're only getting two hours sex per day you're getting wayyy too much sleep!

 

Both my partner and I are in our mid to late 50's. We're healthy, fit and energetic. While we both have demanding careers, we take our time together very "seriously". Both her and I love to golf, travel and cook. I'm a classically trained chef so if she doesn't feel like cooking, I'm more than happy to oblige...

[silktricks]

Maybe when it comes right down to it, what each of us needs to do is keep passion in our lives. period. exclamation point. If we lose passion for what we do, if we are no longer interested in living and learning and changing, then we are also no longer interesting to each other.

 

No passion for life leads to no passion in life or in our relationships be they married or not.

[White Flower]

I read someplace that "passion requires two elements: purpose and sacrifice" (being from Latin 'passio' -- to suffer), which got me to thinking:

I'd use the words 'mystery' and 'surrender' as necessary ingredients for REAL, all-consuming, hold-me-in-the-flames passion.

 

But the intimacy and openness that we also look for in our romantic relationships put the kaibosh on all of it...purpose, sacrifice/surrender and mystery.

 

So no, IMO, it's not "marriage" that kills passion -- it's that our marital/relationship expectations are all conflicted...we want fiery passion AND intimacy; the whole ugly truth AND mystery. And we do not like sacrificing and surrendering.

 

Yikes. Now I've gone and depressed myself

I love this post. I had a great sex life with my H, but there was no emotion, which to me means passion.

 

I had passion with exMM because there was that all-consuming, hold me in the flames passion that mixed deep emotion with physical lust. I do wonder, however, if the day to day things of life that Tripper posted about would have disrupted that kind of passion. I always hoped not, but in one of our last conversations about him leaving his W for me he said, 'What if I did leave, marry you, and later discovered that all I did was change a pair of socks?'

 

I knew right then and there that this particular kind of MM knew that eventually he would fall out of love with the OW and perhaps move on to another. That is why he stays with his first wife. She must be the most comfortable pair of socks he owns.

 

Does he experience passion with his W? I think so. It might not be all that often, but I'm sure it is fantastic when it does happen.

[OWoman]

in one of our last conversations about him leaving his W for me he said, 'What if I did leave, marry you, and later discovered that all I did was change a pair of socks?'

 

He said that? You're too much of a lady, WF - any guy said that to me may as well inscribe it on his tombstone as it would be his last mortal words.

 

How disrespectful!

[White Flower]

Agreed!!

 

OW, it sounds as if you have a good grip on your life and keep it in balance.

 

From my own experiences it's when you lose the balance that your R suffers the most.

 

 

 

Both my partner and I are in our mid to late 50's. We're healthy, fit and energetic. While we both have demanding careers, we take our time together very "seriously". Both her and I love to golf, travel and cook. I'm a classically trained chef so if she doesn't feel like cooking, I'm more than happy to oblige...

Hmm. Do you have a waiting list, Tripper?

[White Flower]

He said that? You're too much of a lady, WF - any guy said that to me may as well inscribe it on his tombstone as it would be his last mortal words.

 

How disrespectful!

Yes he did! I felt at that moment that he didn't have any respect for women in general.

 

I not only cried for myself, but I cried for him too.

[angie2443]

I love this post. I had a great sex life with my H, but there was no emotion, which to me means passion..

 

I hope this question isn't too personal. When you say this, do mean that your husband had a good technique? I think I would feel to empty if my sex life with my husband was all about technique and no feeling, although sometimes it is that way. Sometimes it is all about the grand finnaly(sp?) and there is no connection during the act. My husband is perfectly satisfied with this (at least that's the vibe I get from him). I do, for the most part, prefer for there to be some emotional connection.

[angie2443]

Marriage doesn't kill passion, taking your partner for granted does. I think this has been stated before. I think when people first get together, they value the other person so much, and don't want to loose that other person, that they treat them like gold. Often, once a person is secure in a relationship, they stop doing the behaviors and gestures that made the other person feel special. This doesn't help to keep the passionate feelings alive.