Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster > Christianity

[tstew11]

Had you actually listened to what the guy was saying and done some research of your own instead of immediately looking for some unrelated video to discredit him, you probably would have something more intelligent to say. The fact that your primary motivation to believe in the Christian god is fear speaks volumes. Belief in something, for me, is not simply a matter of emotional sensation, but also of intellectual understanding. Do some research on your own religion rather than simply taking everything you're told as absolute fact.

 

Finally the person that I actually wanted to talk to attacks me. Don't assume that I haven't already looked into that video. I was introduced to it months ago and actually you can look through the comments on Youtube and you will notice that I have already put in my 2 cents. I'm not going to do that on this forum considering anybody can do a little searching and already find what I think. I was just commenting simply on how credible this source sounds. I don't believe that I said that fear is my "primary motivation to believe Christ." I am truly sorry if I made that implication. Now belief for me is much much more than "emotional sensation." Now here go the assumptions again that simply because I am a Bible believing Christian that I do not know anything about my religion. Because if I did, there's no way I would believe it! Am I right? I don't take everything that I am told as absolute fact unless I am told in Scripture. Now that makes me even dumber, I know. So please don't waste your time telling me. But the truth is that my "intellectual understanding" is Bible based.

 

Back to fear of God. I fear God because I am told to in the Bible. I am also told from the Bible that the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Proverbs 9:10. So as dumb as it makes me to believe the Bible, I do. And by believing so, I should fear the Lord. He is the only one worthy of my fear.

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

The WHOLE premise of Exodus is creating a Holy People, or race, or His chosen people in that time, and in that place.

 

I think of it as being elected into office. You're required to hold a higher standard of living than that of a common citizen.

 

It has no relevance to us in this day and age. That's the whole point, and if you studied the Bible as intensively as you say, you would KNOW this!

The way I learned the bible (from a Roman Catholic priest, no less) was to take nothing of it literally, and use it only as a general guideline or parable. It's really the only way to make sense of such blatant nonsense. But I guess you're right--seeing as the Bible was written by humans claiming they felt a divine force, and seeing as it's been translated from Hebrew/Ancient Greek so none of the original nuances are there--there really IS only one way to interpret the Bible, and that's The Moose Way. Thank you for enlightening me.

 

A religion that promotes a "higher standard of living" as using force to get your way is the sort this world does not need. There is enough hate and destruction without that nonsense.

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

When are the FSM's holy days? It would be a great excuse to get a day off work.

Every Friday is a holy day. Also, Ramendan.

 

Edit: Also, the FSM will never ask you to kill anybody because they don't agree with your religious views. What could be more loving and tolerant?

[tstew11]

Let's see, context:

 

19: "Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death."

20: --

21: "Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt."

 

Considering Exodus 22 is just a chapter of OT laws/responsibilities, I think it's pretty straight forward, right in context, and means exactly what it says. Kill the non-Christians!!!

 

And Moose, I have read the bible...several times. And studied it in church/university from both a religious and literary standpoint. You know what assuming does

 

Will you please make up your mind about what you are arguing? This argument got shot down so you turned to the classic "We can't trust something that old written by men." Funny how you were taking the Bible literally in your previous argument and now you are saying that you learned not to(from a priest). That's the exact reason that you can't take other people at their word... even priests. That's why you test everything against scripture. I know that you won't buy into that but at least have some continuity to your argument please.

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

Will you please make up your mind about what you are arguing? This argument got shot down so you turned to the classic "We can't trust something that old written by men." Funny how you were taking the Bible literally in your previous argument and now you are saying that you learned not to(from a priest). That's the exact reason that you can't take other people at their word... even priests. That's why you test everything against scripture. I know that you won't buy into that but at least have some continuity to your argument please.

The difference is, Christians DO take the Bible literally--you believe it's the "word of god"--but you pick and choose what to put into practice depending on what's convenient/accepted.

 

Just because I learned something from someone doesn't mean I think it's right or put it into practice--I was trying to make the point that there are countless ways to interpret the bible due to its questionable history.

[tstew11]

The difference is, Christians DO take the Bible literally--you believe it's the "word of god"--but you pick and choose what to put into practice depending on what's convenient/accepted.

 

Just because I learned something from someone doesn't mean I think it's right or put it into practice--I was trying to make the point that there are countless ways to interpret the bible due to its questionable history.

 

See... "taking the Bible literally" almost needs to be defined. There are several parts of the Bible that are obviously not meant to be taken literally.

 

“For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.”

Psalm 50:10

God is not limiting his creation of cattle to 1000 specific hills.

 

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture."

John 10:9

Need I say that Jesus isn't saying that He is a literal gate?

 

There are even many sayings today that are obviously not to be taken literally. "knocked my socks off" So obviously many parts of speech aren't to be taken literally.

 

Now If you ask me if I take miracles such as the great flood and creation, I will say that I do believe those literally. Yes, I realize that believing those things makes me "uneducated" so save your time. I do not "pick and choose" what is convenient or accepted. There are many parts of scripture that aren't quite as clear whether to take them literally or not. I do my best to interpret those according to what God means. Now I do mess up and fail to follow what it says because I am human. If that is considered picking and choosing than yes I do. But I do what I can to get it right so I can follow the Bible word for word.

[Moose]

there really IS only one way to interpret the Bible, and that's The Moose Way. Thank you for enlightening me.

Interesting. I noticed that your location says, "The most intellegent place on earth".....

 

I wonder, did you have to trade off maturity to get your residency there??? Seriously?

The difference is, Christians DO take the Bible literally--you believe it's the "word of god"--

IF you would read the Bible for ALL it's worth, just like any other literature out there, it make PERFECT sense,

but you pick and choose what to put into practice depending on what's convenient/accepted.

and you'd understand what should be taken in the literal sense, and what shouldn't.

I was trying to make the point that there are countless ways to interpret the bible due to its questionable history.

Nonsense. There's NOTHING questionable about the history of the Bible. It may have been translated to adapt to today's day and age, just a little bit of research will prove the accuracy of said translations. Can you give me/us some examples of whatever you feel is questionable???

Edit: Also, the FSM will never ask you to kill anybody because they don't agree with your religious views. What could be more loving and tolerant?

Just what denomination are you talking about? Born again Christians wouldn't dare do such a thing.....I'd appreciate it if you'd clarify just who you're talking about....

[mental_traveller]

Bashing Christianity because of the Old Testament is kind of silly. Christianity is about Jesus Christ and his teachings - the New Testament. There's a slight difference

[angryyoungman70]

Well, angryyoungman70......let me ask you, are you saved?

 

Have you confessed Christ as your Saviour? Do you believe He came to die on the cross for our sins and rose from the grave?

 

Hey Moose,

 

At one time...

 

However my beliefs have changed over the last several years.

 

I respect people for thier beliefs, even if I do not share them. I do however feel frustrated sometimes when I find individuals who can make statements that they consider fact without being able to back it up. It happens here at work all the time and annoys me to no end.

 

Cheers,

AYM70

[angryyoungman70]

Hehe you sound like the character played by Scott William Winters in Good Will Hunting. If you haven't seen it I would strongly suggest it. By the way... the character is a Harvard student who attempts to sound intelligent by using several quotes. Actually I'll find the scene for you... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymsHLkB8u3s.

 

To the point of me "flaming" you... I don't believe that I was flaming you at all. Actually I think that the only people that could remotely have felt "flamed" by me are Chariot and Trojan John. Actually maybe the guy who uploaded that video originally posted by Trojan John. If you are any of those 3 people I am sorry if you feel that way. And I do agree that the fear of God is a rather powerful tool of controlling my life. Actually my goal is to have it completely controlled by Him. I in no way shape or form feel more superior nor enlightened than you. You may even have more knowledge of the Bible than I. I just pray that your eyes can be opened to what mine have been opened to.

 

 

Gee, I have seen Good Will Hunting. Very entertaining movie. My appologies for trying to sound like I'm educated or intelligent. Obviously, according to you, I am neither.

 

My reason for stating the obvious, is that I take issue with someone who proports "Fact" when the subject matter really falls under "Belief". Yes, there are scholars that will argue that Cyrus Cylinder is not the first example of a "Charter for Human Rights", however the issue of tollerance of other religions has not been brought into question. There is also no reason to dispute the Edicts of Ashoka, for signifying tolerance of beliefs and religion. The poster who claimed that tolerance is a Christian idea or invention and claimed it as fact got my feathers ruffled. It would be akin to claiming that compassion and love are ideas, hence inventions, of Pastafarians.

 

Gee, I hope I'm not attempting to sound too intelligent.

 

Cheers,

 

AYM70

[tstew11]

Gee, I have seen Good Will Hunting. Very entertaining movie. My appologies for trying to sound like I'm educated or intelligent. Obviously, according to you, I am neither.

 

My reason for stating the obvious, is that I take issue with someone who proports "Fact" when the subject matter really falls under "Belief". Yes, there are scholars that will argue that Cyrus Cylinder is not the first example of a "Charter for Human Rights", however the issue of tollerance of other religions has not been brought into question. There is also no reason to dispute the Edicts of Ashoka, for signifying tolerance of beliefs and religion. The poster who claimed that tolerance is a Christian idea or invention and claimed it as fact got my feathers ruffled. It would be akin to claiming that compassion and love are ideas, hence inventions, of Pastafarians.

 

Gee, I hope I'm not attempting to sound too intelligent.

 

Cheers,

 

AYM70

 

 

Are you serious dude? I consider quoting Wikipedia to be neither intelligent nor educated. You are doing precisely what I originally said by passing off other's ideas as your own... Wikipedia's at that. Now maybe your original intent was to quote Wikipedia and I simply took it the wrong way. Next time you use a quote from the internet at least mention where it's from. Now to the point of tolerance. I don't really have an opinion against yours regarding it. I do not agree with the former comment of tolerance being a Christian invention. I understand that it upsets you when people make ridiculous claims about such trivial things. But at least come up with your own argument. Or use quotation marks or cite the source. And honestly, I'm not going to debate you anymore if you continue to use quotes without crediting the source. I'm almost done with this thread anyway. It somehow got to be slightly off topic.

[angryyoungman70]

Are you serious dude? I consider quoting Wikipedia to be neither intelligent nor educated. You are doing precisely what I originally said by passing off other's ideas as your own... Wikipedia's at that. Now maybe your original intent was to quote Wikipedia and I simply took it the wrong way. Next time you use a quote from the internet at least mention where it's from. Now to the point of tolerance. I don't really have an opinion against yours regarding it. I do not agree with the former comment of tolerance being a Christian invention. I understand that it upsets you when people make ridiculous claims about such trivial things. But at least come up with your own argument. Or use quotation marks or cite the source. And honestly, I'm not going to debate you anymore if you continue to use quotes without crediting the source. I'm almost done with this thread anyway. It somehow got to be slightly off topic.

 

Er, I'm sorry. Where am I quoting Wikipedia here? I majored in history in university, and if you cite a Wiki reference, then it is possible that yours truly added it to Wiki. As I have with serveral other insights that I picked up in school. Cheap thrills no doubt. Oh, I see, yes the quote in Wiki is very similar to what I stated (which coincidentally is directly from a thesis I wrote almost 2 decades ago). Looks like someone had the fortitude to change some of the vernacular that I originally added. Bully for them, and bully for you to be so gracious as to point it out to me. I stand corrected.

 

Oh hang on, University might imply that I somehow received an education of sorts. Obviously, my lack of intelect has impaired my ability to become educated.

 

Look, all I was trying to do was "correct" the poster who claimed that Christianity is/was responsible for the concept of tolerance. Nothing more. The poster was not even you.

 

Yes I agree that this thread has drifted from the original content.

[Rooster_DAR]

In case anybody doesn't get it, yes... the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a joke.

 

It's a joke meant to highlight just how inane the "faith" argument is. After all, why don't any of you have faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster? You may laugh and think the people that do are idiots. Well, that's exactly what we think of you. The "joke" is in making an equivalence. Most religious arguments would logically be the same if you substituted "Flying Spaghetti Monster" for God. When substituted in this manner, the sheer idiocy and inaneness of the argument becomes apparent to all involved.

 

The reason religion "works" to begin with is because religious systems are propagated via mass indoctrination. Indoctrination that starts at a very young age. If you don't think this is true, think for a moment about the geographic relativeness of religious systems. People born in the middle east are overwhelmingly Islamic. People born in the West, to Christian parents, are overwhelmingly Christian. People born in India are overwhelmingly Hindu. Religion is culturally propagated. If you were born into a Western Christian household, then chances are you are Christian. All of the squabbling over the specifics and minutia is really just cultural squabbling. You're reading the Bible right now and not the Koran simply because you were born in Missouri or Idaho. Christianity is a part of our Western cultural tradition. People in other parts of the world don't think the Bible is any more divinely inspired than Moby Dick or Bonfire of the Vanities.

 

And if you're inclined to think that God has simply revealed himself in a different manner around the world, well then stop nagging us with all the damn minutia of your Bible. Please stop fighting over all the insipid details! How can we take all the details of the "message" seriously, giving all the troublesome contradictions, from one religious system to the next. Funny how the adherents of all of these systems have lots of "proof". Funny how good God is at doing a disappearing act.

 

The reason people suddenly "find Jesus" in the US is because they never really lost him. The memory of all that religious upbringing is like a comfortable, warm blanket. Something traumatic happens in their life, and they feel lost and helpless, and they go back to something that makes them feel good. How often do you hear about people reporting to have found Vishnu? Probably not often. I'm sure it happens all the time in India though.

 

People are too scared to face a reality without the support religion provides them, so they cling to it like a toddler clings to his blanket. Showing any doubt at all is considered the first steps to Hell. The more adamant and absolutist the believer, the greater his fear. He fears so much, he can't even allow his mind to foster the slightest doubt. He is afraid the entire scaffolding will crumble around him, and he will find him/herself in a nihilist nightmare.

 

This is the reason religion is colliding with science right now. Science is fine so long as it doesn't challenge any of the old ideas of religion. Computer science, electronics, volcanology... anything that doesn't cast a shadow of doubt on the old ideas of religion is fine. It's when these old ideas get threatened, by say Geologists (yes, the Earth is older than 6000 years), or Darwin, that the uproar begins. They cling to their old ideas fiercely, ignoring all evidence to the contrary.

 

Excellent observation!

 

I did a post while back that basically was the same observation as this, of course I met with a firing squad soon thereafter.

 

Bottom Line:

The indoctrination of religion into our lives is a great power, it's a seed that sews itself into the core fundamentals of who we are. Letting go of that for most people is not doable, this is one of the biggest reasons religion has and continues to prevail. I personally believe if humans can continue on without destroying ourselves, eventually modern civilizations will finally discover that they can live happily without having to fall back to superstitious beliefs to keep them at peace.

 

Cheers!

[The Collector]

There's NOTHING questionable about the history of the Bible. It may have been translated to adapt to today's day and age, just a little bit of research will prove the accuracy of said translations. Can you give me/us some examples of whatever you feel is questionable???

 

So do you think a burning bush can talk? That angels came down from the heavens and mated with humans and produced a race of giants? That people come back from the dead? That people can live to 800 years old? etc

[Sks]

So do you think a burning bush can talk? That angels came down from the heavens and mated with humans and produced a race of giants? That people come back from the dead? That people can live to 800 years old? etc

 

Sounds like aliens to me, thats more logical.

[Moose]

So do you think a burning bush can talk? That angels came down from the heavens and mated with humans and produced a race of giants? That people come back from the dead? That people can live to 800 years old? etc

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!

 

You can't take portions of the Bible that are METAPHORS and make it walk on all fours!

 

Yes, I do believe God shines in His glory and could cause a bush to APPEAR as if it's burning, and yes I do believe He spoke audibly to Moses.

 

No I don't believe fallen angels could have sex with humans simple because angels have no REPRODUCTIVE organs....they have no ORGANS at all. I believe the "Sons of God" had sexual relationships with the women, the sons of God being from the lineage of Seth....

 

Yes I do believe people had the life span of 800 years, (and in some cases even more) before the flood. What's so hard to believe about that? They ate all natural foods and had absolutely no pollution on the earth at that time....totally possible.

 

And MOST importantly, I most absolutely believe people have risen from the dead.

[Trojan John]

"World War Z", by Max Brooks.

 

/sarcasm

[disgracian]

Yes I do believe people had the life span of 800 years, (and in some cases even more) before the flood. What's so hard to believe about that? They ate all natural foods and had absolutely no pollution on the earth at that time....totally possible.

You surely realise that there are places in the world where people do eat all natural foods and have no pollution. Their life expectency is generally a lot lower than ours. I have to wonder on what basis you believe this to be "totally possible". I'm sure you will choose not to waste your time on us again when the onus is on you to provide something in support of your claims. But, I'd be more than happy for you to prove me wrong.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

I have to wonder on what basis you believe this to be "totally possible".

Wonder no more then..... If Scripture says it, I believe it.

 

From there, do you own homework. You're the only one asking anyways.

[Enema]

^^^^ LOL

 

 

I'm sure you will choose not to waste your time on us again when the onus is on you to provide something in support of your claims.

 

You are psychic!

[Mahatma]

It is truly incredible how someone can be told something from birth and believe it entirely. Any of you christians here who were born into a Jewish family, would be Jewish. Any of you born into a Muslim family, Muslim.

 

Only the people who were not born into a strict religious family should feel like they ACTUALLY have their own opinion on religion.

 

Don't think im am only bashing people who are religious here. I am bashing people who aren't too. The fact is you are going to believe whatever you grow up on, whatever it is. If you were born into a spaghetti monster worshipping family, that is what you would telling everyone on here is the right way to salvation.

[Moose]

It is truly incredible how someone can be told something from birth and believe it entirely. Any of you christians here who were born into a Jewish family, would be Jewish. Any of you born into a Muslim family, Muslim.

 

Only the people who were not born into a strict religious family should feel like they ACTUALLY have their own opinion on religion.

 

Don't think im am only bashing people who are religious here. I am bashing people who aren't too. The fact is you are going to believe whatever you grow up on, whatever it is. If you were born into a spaghetti monster worshipping family, that is what you would telling everyone on here is the right way to salvation.

I respect your opinion. I will say that you'll get arguements over this....hope you know that.

 

Some of these guys swear up and down that, "logic" has everthing to do with their beliefs.

 

Personally, I think belief has to defy logic because you have to have a degree of faith....no man knows it all.

[Lovelybird]

It is truly incredible how someone can be told something from birth and believe it entirely. Any of you christians here who were born into a Jewish family, would be Jewish. Any of you born into a Muslim family, Muslim.

 

Only the people who were not born into a strict religious family should feel like they ACTUALLY have their own opinion on religion.

 

Don't think im am only bashing people who are religious here. I am bashing people who aren't too. The fact is you are going to believe whatever you grow up on, whatever it is. If you were born into a spaghetti monster worshipping family, that is what you would telling everyone on here is the right way to salvation.

not true, I was born in a country don't believe any god, if any, it is budda, and budda never talked to me even when I am living in his territory for so long time. But Lord did

 

I am a convert

[Enema]

It is truly incredible how someone can be told something from birth and believe it entirely. Any of you christians here who were born into a Jewish family, would be Jewish. Any of you born into a Muslim family, Muslim.

 

Only the people who were not born into a strict religious family should feel like they ACTUALLY have their own opinion on religion.

 

Don't think im am only bashing people who are religious here. I am bashing people who aren't too. The fact is you are going to believe whatever you grow up on, whatever it is. If you were born into a spaghetti monster worshipping family, that is what you would telling everyone on here is the right way to salvation.

 

not true, I was born in a country that believe in god, if any, it is christian, and god never talked to me even when I am living in his territory for so long time.

 

I am de-converted

[angryyoungman70]

not true, I was born in a country that believe in god, if any, it is christian, and god never talked to me even when I am living in his territory for so long time.

 

I am de-converted

 

*snicker, chortle, guffaw!*