The Other OW

[pelicanpreacher]

Sorry but what does all that have to do with my response to sally4sara which you quote me on?

 

 

 

She thinks that a big part of why people are drawn into affairs is because they want to be chosen over another person to be made to feel special and I think that is absurd and overly simplistic. I did not fall in love with a married man to spite or compete with his W. I compete with his W as much as any woman competes with any other woman when there is an object of desire to be had.

 

It's like saying do people go into relationships to compete with other singles to be chosen so that they can be made to feel special?!?!? Some might some people who have issues and cannot spend a minute alone might, but most balanced individuals go into relationships because it feels great to love and be loved, there is no other underlying reason of competion with other people and to get chosen in order to feel "special".

 

I've been reading and rereading your post to get a firm grasp on your perspective and would like to share a perspective of my own related directly to your arguement with sally4sara.

 

I felt your post's debate centered primarily upon the dynamics of competition involved when an individual attempts to woo or attract another individual who's already involved in a commited relationship as opposed to what occurs in a relationship engaged by two single individuals. For me, there are sharp constrasts between the competive mechanics involved between an individual engaging with another single person versus someone engaging with someone who is already taken. The "single" individual is typically seen as unencumbered by way of a true relationship with another so should be free to fully explore a new relationship with the single minded focus required to openly embrace all the wonderous feelings of falling in love without guilt, remorse, or a division of loyalties for betraying love already committed in requitement to another. Of course there is competition amongst other singles for the attention of all individuals on both sides of the aisles but, the fact remains that all involved are operating from the same starting point as a single and unencumbered without the residual consequences of simultaneously maintaining a current relationship.

 

The competition mechanics and dynamics involved with engaging in a relationship to attract and engage an unattached individual are far different from those found when engaging in a relationship with another who's already committed because the "tipping point" to achieve the exclusive affections of the "taken" individual in question requires that the relationship proceed and develop far enough for said individual to withdraw and end reciprocation of love and loyalty to their committed partner to reserve it exclusively for the affair partner if a decision to choose is eventually expected. It stands to reason, therefore, that the interloper must strive to see and feel that they are more special to said individual than is evidenced by their treatment of the original partner to ascertain whether continued investment in the relationship is warranted or not. Although your decision to fall in love may not have been motivated by spite, the arguement posed by sally4sara still finds merit based upon the mechanics and dynamics required for an interloping individual to attain the exclusive arrangement they desire when getting involved with someone already committed to a prior relationship.

 

As a side not, my original post wasn't directed at the arguements presented to sally4sara but, instead, to the nuances of your post regarding a seeming lack of concern for the morality of your position on who is "fair game" for a romantic relationship.

[OWoman]

The "single" individual is typically seen as unencumbered by way of a true relationship with another so should be free to fully explore a new relationship with the single minded focus required to openly embrace all the wonderous feelings of falling in love without guilt, remorse, or a division of loyalties for betraying love already committed in requitement to another. Of course there is competition amongst other singles for the attention of all individuals on both sides of the aisles but, the fact remains that all involved are operating from the same starting point as a single and unencumbered without the residual consequences of simultaneously maintaining a current relationship.

 

The competition mechanics and dynamics involved with engaging in a relationship to attract and engage an unattached individual are far different from those found when engaging in a relationship with another who's already committed because the "tipping point" to achieve the exclusive affections of the "taken" individual in question requires that the relationship proceed and develop far enough for said individual to withdraw and end reciprocation of love and loyalty to their committed partner to reserve it exclusively for the interloper if a decision to choose is eventually expected. It stands to reason, therefore, that the interloper must strive to see and feel that they are more special to said individual than is evidenced by their treatment of the original partner to ascertain whether continued investment in the relationship is warranted or not. Although your decision to fall in love may not have been motivated by spite, the arguement posed by sally4sara still finds merit based upon the mechanics and dynamics required for an interloper to attain the exclusive arrangement desired when getting involved with an individual already in a committed relationship.

 

Peli, many of the CSs who land up in As are already disengaged from their Ms, and thus "unencumbered by a true R with another" as you put it. That need for competition is thus not there.

 

I've never felt the need to compete for the attention or affection of a prospective lover. If I'm interested, I simply outline my proposal for consideration. The prospective is free to accept - on my terms - or not. Competition doesn't arise. I was never looking to "wean them away" from an existing R and where they did choose to dump the W because she "didn't measure up" that was their business entirely.

 

I don't believe the dynamics are necessarily different.

[Tomcat33]

I've been reading and rereading your post to get a firm grasp on your perspective and would like to share a perspective of my own related directly to your arguement with sally4sara.

 

I felt your post's debate centered primarily upon the dynamics of competition involved when an individual attempts to woo or attract another individual who's already involved in a commited relationship as opposed to what occurs in a relationship engaged by two single individuals. For me, there are sharp constrasts between the competive mechanics involved between an individual engaging with another single person versus someone engaging with someone who is already taken. The "single" individual is typically seen as unencumbered by way of a true relationship with another so should be free to fully explore a new relationship with the single minded focus required to openly embrace all the wonderous feelings of falling in love without guilt, remorse, or a division of loyalties for betraying love already committed in requitement to another. Of course there is competition amongst other singles for the attention of all individuals on both sides of the aisles but, the fact remains that all involved are operating from the same starting point as a single and unencumbered without the residual consequences of simultaneously maintaining a current relationship.

 

The competition mechanics and dynamics involved with engaging in a relationship to attract and engage an unattached individual are far different from those found when engaging in a relationship with another who's already committed because the "tipping point" to achieve the exclusive affections of the "taken" individual in question requires that the relationship proceed and develop far enough for said individual to withdraw and end reciprocation of love and loyalty to their committed partner to reserve it exclusively for the affair partner if a decision to choose is eventually expected. It stands to reason, therefore, that the interloper must strive to see and feel that they are more special to said individual than is evidenced by their treatment of the original partner to ascertain whether continued investment in the relationship is warranted or not. Although your decision to fall in love may not have been motivated by spite, the arguement posed by sally4sara still finds merit based upon the mechanics and dynamics required for an interloping individual to attain the exclusive arrangement they desire when getting involved with someone already committed to a prior relationship.

 

Those are all valid points I would even agree on them however Saly4 essentially said in a not so simplistic way that people go into As with the intentent of stealing somenone's partner in order to elevate themselves.

I find that concept overly simplistic, and absurd for a big chunk of cases.

I fell in love with my ex an he seperated so that we could be together. There was no scheming of plotting against his W or any sort of pursuation on my part to him to leave her to come be with me. I basically told him if you want to date me you have to be single look me up when you are free, and he did just that, he moved out left his W and looked me up. Of course he was still married but it was a step in the direction we needed to go. We were together, naturally eventually I wanted the next step to happen and for him to get a D and move to the next phase of his life so that WE could start fully planning a WE and so that he could close the door on his past. That is completely natural that I would want that for myself. Again there was no masterminding or scheming I simply wanted for myself what anyone would want, a fair go at a relationship with out any form of EX on the sidelines.

 

As a single person meeting another single person, and as a woman in my 30's now a days there are all sorts of seperated men out there. Look on a dating site if you don't believe me. I was out on a date with a guy three weekends ago. He has been seperated since 2005 and his ex lives in another country HOWEVER no D in sight (did't know this going in). Well as you can imagine and after my last experience and after hearing him tell me "she will always be in my life we are great friends, and even though our marriage dissolved because she cheated on me we will always be great friends" As a single person who has already been down that road, I am not doing THAT again even if the circumstances are different this time around I am not doing that again. The amount of seperated men out there, and for all we know are still very much with their exe's is HUGE especially in the 30's age group. SO to say that a normal human being enters into an OP situation for mere fact of stealing a person from their partner or ex partner is not really understanding the complexity of what these relationships entail. The OP is often convinced that the marriage is on its way out that the marriage is done, so there is no stealing factor to be considered.

 

It's simplistic and a very fantastical view on As and the psychology behind them.

 

So would you say that a person that gets involved with another person that is seperated is only doing it to elevate their selfesteem by essentially making the person choose them over their expartner?

 

If you have that much time to scheme and plot then you should not be trying to win people over you should be trying to conquer the world.

Muuuuauahahahahaha! (where is the little devil icon when you need one?)

 

 

I find that concept absurd.

 

 

As a side not, my original post wasn't directed at the arguements presented to sally4sara but, instead, to the nuances of your post regarding a seeming lack of concern for the morality of your position on who is "fair game" for a romantic relationship.

 

 

The "nuances" of my post regarding my seeming lack of morality on who is fair game for a relationship is YOUR misinterpretation of what I had written. I was never deffending my stance from a moral stand point nor was it a moral issue, that is what you read into my post. What I was doing was drawing a parallel to the selection of a mate as a single person VS an A partner and I was trying to demosntrate that we are reigned by the same kind of needs and if the competition exists it is a natural competive feeling that anyone has when they are trying to win over their object of love or desire that does not stem from low selfesteem and Sally4 was implying but that stems from our need to love and be loved in an equal and recirpocal form. The fact you are reading into it and using it as a scapegoat to criticise me for my moral chioces is your issue.

 

Feel better now that you got that bit of judgement out of you? Yes I made a highly immoral choice. But I can live with my mistakes can YOU? ;-) (that was a rhetorical question, don't bother answering it because it affects me either way)

[bish]

Does anyone have any words of advice?

 

Yes. Stop being the OW.

[pelicanpreacher]

Those are all valid points I would even agree on them however Saly4 essentially said in a not so simplistic way that people go into As with the intentent of stealing somenone's partner in order to elevate themselves.

I find that concept overly simplistic, and absurd for a big chunk of cases.

I fell in love with my ex an he seperated so that we could be together. There was no scheming of plotting against his W or any sort of pursuation on my part to him to leave her to come be with me. I basically told him if you want to date me you have to be single look me up when you are free, and he did just that, he moved out left his W and looked me up. Of course he was still married but it was a step in the direction we needed to go. We were together, naturally eventually I wanted the next step to happen and for him to get a D and move to the next phase of his life so that WE could start fully planning a WE and so that he could close the door on his past. That is completely natural that I would want that for myself. Again there was no masterminding or scheming I simply wanted for myself what anyone would want, a fair go at a relationship with out any form of EX on the sidelines.

 

As a single person meeting another single person, and as a woman in my 30's now a days there are all sorts of seperated men out there. Look on a dating site if you don't believe me. I was out on a date with a guy three weekends ago. He has been seperated since 2005 and his ex lives in another country HOWEVER no D in sight (did't know this going in). Well as you can imagine and after my last experience and after hearing him tell me "she will always be in my life we are great friends, and even though our marriage dissolved because she cheated on me we will always be great friends" As a single person who has already been down that road, I am not doing THAT again even if the circumstances are different this time around I am not doing that again. The amount of seperated men out there, and for all we know are still very much with their exe's is HUGE especially in the 30's age group. SO to say that a normal human being enters into an OP situation for mere fact of stealing a person from their partner or ex partner is not really understanding the complexity of what these relationships entail. The OP is often convinced that the marriage is on its way out that the marriage is done, so there is no stealing factor to be considered.

 

It's simplistic and a very fantastical view on As and the psychology behind them.

 

So would you say that a person that gets involved with another person that is seperated is only doing it to elevate their selfesteem by essentially making the person choose them over their expartner?

 

If you have that much time to scheme and plot then you should not be trying to win people over you should be trying to conquer the world.

Muuuuauahahahahaha! (where is the little devil icon when you need one?)

 

 

I find that concept absurd.

 

 

 

 

 

The "nuances" of my post regarding my seeming lack of morality on who is fair game for a relationship is YOUR misinterpretation of what I had written. I was never deffending my stance from a moral stand point nor was it a moral issue, that is what you read into my post. What I was doing was drawing a parallel to the selection of a mate as a single person VS an A partner and I was trying to demosntrate that we are reigned by the same kind of needs and if the competition exists it is a natural competive feeling that anyone has when they are trying to win over their object of love or desire that does not stem from low selfesteem and Sally4 was implying but that stems from our need to love and be loved in an equal and recirpocal form. The fact you are reading into it and using it as a scapegoat to criticise me for my moral chioces is your issue.

 

Feel better now that you got that bit of judgement out of you? Yes I made a highly immoral choice. But I can live with my mistakes can YOU? ;-) (that was a rhetorical question, don't bother answering it because it affects me either way)

 

I had to chuckle at some of the humour you imparted in your responses but, to answer your question regarding whether all individuals involved in an affair actively plot and scheme at the onset for the expressed purpose of finding a married individual to break up a marriage to steal a spouse I even find too absurd to warrant indepth consideration. I can only think of 2 circumstances where that assessment might be valid and those would be if there was a long standing history of rivalry or grudge-like animus established against one party to a relationship this might precipitate motivation for said individual to pursue the destruction of said relationship for the purpose of a mercurially gaining validation of their self esteem in a trophy-quest sort of way.

 

As to the moral question I addressed, I purposely prefaced it with the disclaimer of "seemingly" because I wasn't sure as to whether your post intended to focus on the discernments drawn between parallels when comparing the two aforementioned circumstances for a single versus adulterous relationship or whether it implied a hard stance on who was fair game in romantic considerations. For relationships in a "separated" status, I see that situation as a stretched rubberband for the marital state remains intact which merely suspends all relationships engaged while in this state in the same stasis as the separation poses to the marriage. I completely agree with you on that to begin and sustain a relationship with an individual who has an EX in the wings is problematic on many levels, especially where there are children involved, so it is best, at least for me, that a final divorce has been decreed and that it is well understood that there are no residual romantic feelings left for the EX to create confusion in a relationship I pursue with said individual. (my feet must feel terra firma for I have to know where I stand at all times)

 

As for my morality, it is not my intention to wield it as a club beating others into compliance but, intead, to be worn as garb protecting myself from the actions of others who don't share my values. If I came across as critical then I apologize for my post was intended as a general contemplation of my observations of what is and what could be to foster a better world for all of us and not as a personal attack against you or anyone else.

 

I guess we'll have to be more careful in how we word our posts or just learn to live with the misunderstandings that may arise every so often from our intentions or differing points of view.

 

Thanks for listening.