A note to all the OW's out there:

[Owl]

But TC...you were the one INSISTING just within the last week or so that the married man can't possibly love his wife when he goes back to the marriage.

 

How is that presumption ANY different than what you're accusing me of when I say that the MM isn't totally committed to the OP during the affair?

 

I'm not saying you didn't FEEL like you were getting the "best of MM" during the height of the affair...I'm sure you FELT that way. What I'm saying is that just because you FELT this was the case...that doesn't make it a fact that it WAS that way...nor does it make it a fact for all the other OW who post here.

 

ESPECIALLY when you consider that the majority of those OW are with MM who are STILL LIVING WITH THEIR WIFE. Big difference.

[Owl]

Giving this a little more thought...I think that YOU might well HAVE gotten the "best of MM" during your affair with him, TC.

 

Because he was already seperated from his wife when you met him, and he wasn't engaging in any kind of relationship with her at all at the time.

 

But that is totally disparate with the majority of the OW stories on this forum.

 

For them...they ARE 'sharing' him...they don't want to in most cases, but they are.

 

See the difference?

[Tomcat33]

But TC...you were the one INSISTING just within the last week or so that the married man can't possibly love his wife when he goes back to the marriage.

 

.

 

 

Because we were discussing that a person that goes back and continues in the A is NOT going back for love, a person that goes back and has a complete clean break and ONLY focuses on recovering the M does (garanted there is a little period of withdrawl the first few weeks and sometimes they cave) but not when this continues in time that is not withdrawl that is simply NOT wanting to give up the OP so if they don't want to give up the OP they are not seriously wanting to recover the marriage which means they DO NOT REALLY love their spouse.

 

My situation was that he was still reaching out to me over the course of a year, he was seeking me out and he was in NO way honouring whatever agreement they may have had in therapy to stay away from me or my request for strict NC, so in that case he did not love his W. My case is not unique there are a lot OW who have men go back to their W's and stay in contact so that is not loving their spouse, love is shown in actions if you continue to deceive your spouse you don't love them.

 

C'mon OWL you don't need to be a BS to know that. Now if you were to say to me my W came back to me and we worked it out and she stayed away from the A partner and really closed the door on it I would NEVER say "whatev, she doesn't really love you" I have NO reason to.

 

I base all my concepts and truths on ACTIONS. You are dismissing the ACTIONS my ex showed me to try to force feed me that what I had with my ex was not real. SEE the difference? You prob won't because you just don't want to.

 

I think it's easy to see, if you want to see it. what I am saying is not unreasonable.

[Tomcat33]

Giving this a little more thought...I think that YOU might well HAVE gotten the "best of MM" during your affair with him, TC.

 

Because he was already seperated from his wife when you met him, and he wasn't engaging in any kind of relationship with her at all at the time.

 

But that is totally disparate with the majority of the OW stories on this forum.

 

For them...they ARE 'sharing' him...they don't want to in most cases, but they are.

 

See the difference?

 

 

He was not seperated when I met him, he seperated to be with me though in my inexperience and at the time he had me convinced it was going to happen regardless with or without me in the picture. I'll never know if that is true or not. But they did end up D so there must be some truth to that. He always said I was prob not going to seperate now, but it was going to happen and I had been thinking about it for quite some time now.

[silktricks]

Ya know, I don't often disagree with you Owl, but --- I think I do.

 

It depends on what you (and TC) mean by best, but if you mean, the best they are giving between the two women at the time of the affair, I do think it's probable the OW is getting the best (part) of him at that time.

 

Granted in most cases the OW is sharing - but though unknown to the BS, so is she. The MM is most probably giving the OW more attention and more thought and more romantic feelings during the affair than he is giving the wife. If he wasn't more drawn to the OW during this time, he probably wouldn't be having an affair.

 

If you mean that he is giving the OW the best that he can possibly give - then I do agree with you, he isn't giving his best - to either of them - because his attention is divided. Once he either makes the break with the wife or makes the break with the OW, then he can give the best he can give to whichever one.

[Tomcat33]

It depends on what you (and TC) mean by best, but if you mean, the best they are giving between the two women at the time of the affair, I do think it's probable the OW is getting the best (part) of him at that time.

 

 

This is it, this is exactly what OW mean by the best. During the A the spouse is NOT getting the best form their partner because they are busy giving it to someone else. I am not talking about who gets to stay with the person or who gets to "win" or who is the bigger "sucker" or ANY of that, that's besides the point, I am simply saying that the best a person has to offer goes to the A partner and not the BS. Sadly this was one of the things that tormented me the most, he assure me it was mutual that he was not given the same in return so long that the feeling was mutual with his W but I always felt he was depriving her of his best and giving it to me instead and I had a termendous amount of guilt about that HE would even talk me out of feeling guilty. It would get very intense and painful at time because I was suffering for his W and for me at the same time, I can't explain it but he always assured me I was not the person in the wrong that the problems and lack of affection love was there for a very long time and so it was not like I was taking anything away from her, yet I could not shake that feeling.

 

And I know some will say well why didn't you walk away, I did many times and it was this yo-yo of what should I trust and what shouldn't I. It was very complex and painful, but I still got the best from him.

 

Make a little more sense?

[NoIDidn't]

I. Just heated. Up my baby oil.

 

Did I miss the match?

 

<whew, hope I'm not late>

[Owl]

OK, I think this may have been a break down in semantics.

 

I'll agree...he's putting more effort into his relationship with the OW than he is in his marriage. That is a no-brainer.

 

But the affair partner isn't seeing the "best of him"...she's seeing the part of him that he's taken away from his marriage and shared with her. Its not all of him...which the BS most likely DID experience at some point, at least in the beginning of the relationship.

[NoIDidn't]

You know, the best way of seeing who is getting the best of the MP is in an emergency situation.

 

Hugs and kisses are good and fine but do nothing for you when life intrudes.

 

I'm biased, of course.

[luvmy2ns]

OK, I think this may have been a break down in semantics.

 

I'll agree...he's putting more effort into his relationship with the OW than he is in his marriage. That is a no-brainer.

 

But the affair partner isn't seeing the "best of him"...she's seeing the part of him that he's taken away from his marriage and shared with her. Its not all of him...which the BS most likely DID experience at some point, at least in the beginning of the relationship.

 

I agree that you can't know what "the best" is until you see "the all."

[Tomcat33]

You know, the best way of seeing who is getting the best of the MP is in an emergency situation.

 

Hugs and kisses are good and fine but do nothing for you when life intrudes.

 

I'm biased, of course.

 

 

Well the hugs and kisses and the long sit ups with me at the hospital driving me to and fro and talking and easing my head came in real handy when my father was getting an operation to have cancer removed.

Or the drives to a job that was way out the way for me in the middle of winter, or the literature my ex drove to my folks house to give to my father before he had the operation, as a gesture to put his mind at ease, also came in quite handy from my "A partner".

 

I am pretty biased too. (whatever bias has to do with it!?? )

 

Listen, some of you people talk about OPs as if we were highschool children, we know what's what some of us don't base relationships on a an icecream cone the batting of eyelashes an stolen glances, though in some of your fantaises that is what we are practicing, puppy love.

Nor do we base the idea of divorcing a partner because we caught them text messaging a 21 yr as a REALISTIC course of action.

Cmon!

 

Did it EVER occur to you that people are also limited to share anecdotes of their lives here because they are keeping things confidential? I would have never expressed all the above information during the time I was invovled with my ex, it was TOO close to home and people could have put two and to together at the time, my anonimity was fundamental. Many people feel that way I am sure as well.

 

If you stop being so condescending and stop entertining all these preconceived notions you have made up in your heads that stem from lack of seeing the full picture, then maybe you can open your minds long enough to actually understand things.

 

I SAW THE BEST OF HIM. period. AND I saw the worst, so in a way my relationship was actually more real than any normal relationship could ever be since you don't tend to see your partner's downfalls until further down the line.

[luvmy2ns]

I don't see anyone being condescending in this convo. But you have to admit that YOUR situation TC, therefore YOUR views on this, are completely different than most affair situations. It is what it is.

[Owl]

LOL...I've not been condescending yet, TC. But if you want me to be...

 

"I SAW THE BEST OF HIM. period."

 

Sure you did, dear. Sure you did.

 

Now THAT is condescending. Attempting to discuss it with you is not.

 

YOUR assumption of preconceived notions and all these other attributes you've assigned to BS's in general is condescending.

[NoIDidn't]

Looks like TC is going back to contradicting herself. One situation being different doesn't change the fact that the majority of times that the OP will be on their own in an emergency.

 

Now, are we going to wrestle or NOT?!!! The oil is cooling off!!!

[Virgo1982]

You ow's are really cold. I guess that is why you are capable of doing what you do.

This woman was trying to appeal to your compassion for fellow human beings and make you see a little of the devastation you cause in others lives and how far reaching it is. Of course she could not accomplish that. You are cold with selfish blinders on.

 

 

Many BS and OW are cold toward each other. I can not put my finger on it, but it has something to do with a man...

[luvmy2ns]

Looks like TC is going back to contradicting herself. One situation being different doesn't change the fact that the majority of times that the OP will be on their own in an emergency.

 

Now, are we going to wrestle or NOT?!!! The oil is cooling off!!!

 

I know, huh?!!

[Tomcat33]

YOUR assumption of preconceived notions and all these other attributes you've assigned to BS's in general is condescending.

 

 

Acutally I don't think that about all BSs in general!?!? It was to you and NoIDidn't. There are plenty BSs here who have a more balanced look at things. I have plenty proof of why I think you both can be condescending, I see the way you speak to OW here.

 

On the other hand you have 0 proof of what anyone's situation was like so I still base my comments on facts while you tend to base them on what you assume about situations you never even experienced, so you can't even comment from personal experience.

 

I SAW THE BEST OF HIM. period."Now THAT is condescending. Attempting to discuss it with you is not.

 

If my reality feels condescending to you, what can I say....? I did see the best of him and worst of him and nothing you can say will change my exprience. PERIOD.

 

And you are not attempting to disucss things with me you are attempting to forcefeed me a concept I don't adhere to, as you very well tend to do OWL, someone asks: "I am married an having an A why do you think my affair partner did X" and your advice will be: "tell your H you are having an A on him" which is fine that's your style but that is not what they are asking. You tend to have a one track mind on your agenda OWL, and quite frankly that reeks of forcing people to think and do as you say, that is not embracing a discussion so that you can ease them into what you ULTIMATELY want them to do.

[SerenityX2]

TC...

 

Not sure if you ever made it back to SavetheD's other thread where I responded to you my H's is NOT the P.I. ...that was my exH.

 

You seemed amazed etc..(not sure if it was sarcasm though:o) and I wanted to make that clear...maybe yours was a typo...anyway.

 

I agree...it's a hard life to be with a cop/P.I. Personally I'd never go there again, b/c of what I went through...so I'm more than happy my H has the job he does and loves:love:

 

Sorry....for the t/j....I just knew I could find you here!

 

*serenity dons helmet and ducks back out*

[Tomcat33]

TC...

 

Not sure if you ever made it back to SavetheD's other thread where I responded to you my H's is NOT the P.I. ...that was my exH.

 

You seemed amazed etc..(not sure if it was sarcasm though:o) and I wanted to make that clear...maybe yours was a typo...anyway.

 

I agree...it's a hard life to be with a cop/P.I. Personally I'd never go there again, b/c of what I went through...so I'm more than happy my H has the job he does and loves:love:

 

Sorry....for the t/j....I just knew I could find you here!

 

*serenity dons helmet and ducks back out*

 

 

yes sorry meant to respond to that S. NO WAY it was not sarcasm at ALL Serenity I totally admire your strenght. I will go over to respond soon.

[Tomcat33]

Looks like TC is going back to contradicting herself.

 

 

 

Where did I contradict myself?!?!?

[Owl]

You're right, TC...rather than focusing on the TRIVIALITIES of "why their affair partner did XXX"...I attempt to get them to address the PROBLEM directly in the first place.

 

How completely horrible of me...

 

What's amazing about it is the sheer number of people I've had come back later and THANK ME for pushing a specific course of action, when I've been such a completely rotten jerk to them in this fashion. There are a number of those poor souls hanging around here right now, just hating my guts. Nadja, Taylor, etc... I should go apologize to them.

 

Lets end this massive T/J, shall we?

[Tomcat33]

You're right, TC...rather than focusing on the TRIVIALITIES of "why their affair partner did XXX"...I attempt to get them to address the PROBLEM directly in the first place.

 

How completely horrible of me...

 

 

 

I am not saying that what you are trying to do is NOT GOOD, it IS good. What I am saying is that you put your agenda first before you put the needs of what the person wants to discuss, first. You have plenty of time to convince someone to do what is right, but if they are asking for purple why are you giving them red just becuase red is your fave colour? Get to know them first and then push red on them.

 

And so I find that's dismissive, that is not respecting what a person needs then and there which might I remind you may not be what you think they need. and you do that with people's experiences too, you dismiss their experiences like you have been doing to mine telling me it was just "perception I got the best". Honestly OWL I don't care either way what you think since that does not take away from my reality, it really doesn't I am telling you that in ALL honesty. I don't look for validation as you prob already have noticed I do think it is fair that you realise what you are doing though.

[NoIDidn't]

And so I find that's dismissive, that is not respecting what a person needs then and there which might I remind you may not be what you think they need. and you do that with people's experiences too, you dismiss their experiences like you have been doing to mine telling me it was just "perception I got the best". Honestly OWL I don't care either way what you think since that does not take away from my reality, it really doesn't I am telling you that in ALL honesty. I don't look for validation as you prob already have noticed I do think it is fair that you realise what you are doing though.

 

 

This is how you are contradicting yourself. You say you respect other's stances, but then turn around and disrespect and dismiss them. ALL while claiming they are dismissing YOU. And then saying you don't do that.

 

You say you don't tell others how they are feeling and then you post the above claiming to know what another needs. That's contradicting yourself.

 

Its not semantics. Its what you do. And that's all I am saying on the matter before I get accused of bickering.

 

G' day.

[Owl]

Fair enough TC. And I do see, and freely admit that I post responses to people with a specific agenda in mind. End their pain, and get them moving in the right direction to resolve the problem as quickly as possible.

 

The reason I go straight to red instead of purple first isn't because its my favorite color. Its because so many people want to FOCUS on red when deep down they actually KNOW that they need purple...but it hurts them to face purple...so they AVOID focusing on the things that they need by focusing on something less painful...but unfortunately this has the end result of letting them avoid the problem and drag out the situation overall.

 

Leaving them to wallow and focus on something that's not going to help them in any fashion simply isn't my style.

[Tomcat33]

This is how you are contradicting yourself. You say you respect other's stances, but then turn around and disrespect and dismiss them. ALL while claiming they are dismissing YOU. And then saying you don't do that.

 

You say you don't tell others how they are feeling and then you post the above claiming to know what another needs. That's contradicting yourself.

 

Its not semantics. Its what you do. And that's all I am saying on the matter before I get accused of bickering.

 

G' day.

 

 

First of all this last post came WAY after your post of you "claiming" I contradict myself. You are reaching because you love to bicker and quite frankly I am not interested in getting into anything witih you, it's a complete waste of time FOR ME.

 

I'd rather talk with people who actually have something of value to offer me, OWL and I buck heads a lot but there is value in those discussions for me, with you there is not.

So ta! NIDIND'T.