Virgo1982 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 <jumping up and down.....whooping and hollering.......> Exactly!!! For both points!!!! Exactly!!!!! I am sure that the more temperate posters on each side can agree with this. I know I do. That post was brilliant. To add to it, I think hating the woman on the other side helps channel the pain. Most people love excuses and blame-BS, MM, and OW alike. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I hate broccoli, squash, and certain beans. But hating people has never been a part of my mind. I can say I really dislike a person and their actions, but hate requires too much energy that I can use somewhere else. Did I want to hurt the OW, you betcha. Did I want to mutiliate Mr. Messy, damn straight in the beginning(the gaslighting helped that feeling). But the anger soon turned to disgust and pity. And the more they both act out the more I know they both need more mental help than disgust or pity. Link to post Share on other sites
Kamikaze Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I am new around here. I may not get away with this. I have a post on the infedelity thread.... Basically my husband was texting some young "thing" and I found out. I guess you could say that I am one of the lucky ones who caught it before anyone fell in (or out of) love and my husband and I are making things work. (I will live the rest of my marriage wondering how far it would have gone had I not found out...nice huh?) Ironically, I spoke with a friend of mine tonight who just found out her husband was having a PA with an OW. WOW. I think men are going thru MLCrisis earlier and earlier nowadays.... (We r in our early 30's) Boy did we have a OW bashing conversation!! It feels so good to bash the women even tho we know the true betrayal lies with our H. He is the one who broke vows. He is the one who owed US something more. But I just wish I could shake these women (who actively OR passively pursue MM) by the shoulders and say "WHAT'S UP SISTER?" Don't you care? Especially those who are mothers yourselves....YOU ARE HURTING SOMEONE'S CHILDREN!! Shame on you! You know, my husband is a very attractive man. When I spoke on the phone with the OW, I asked her why she continued to contact my man when she knew he was a MM....Her answer was "I just thought he was a really cute guy". Seriously? A cute guy? He is someones's father. His daughter is a daddy's girl. His son adores him. HE IS SO MUCH MORE THAN A "CUTE GUY" to his family. He is more than that TO ME. He is the one who held my hand as I gave birth to our children. He is the one that I love even tho he is losing his hair and even the time I had to drive SO SLOW because his hemmroid was flaring up!!! We have a history. We are trying our DAMNEST to raise our family in a safe, secure, healthy home. When you start an affair with a MM you are hurting people who have invested years into a relationship and you have NO RIGHT to be there. Because of some OW, my friend's sweet little girls will spend Christmas away from the daddy that they adored. They will live the rest of their lives in a broken home because some OW thought that SHE would be better for him. Because of her own selfishness and lack of concern for others she has contributed to changing everything about that family and she has changed WHO THOSE CHILDREN ARE. Their marriage was not perfect, no. But it there was just a small crack. It could have been repaired easily. Now it's like a tornado has ripped the roof right off. There is no hope. In my case, my H and the OW have changed me and WHO I AM now. My children, thank God, were spared the hurt because they know nothing of my situation. Don't forget, there are other family members too. Parents of the MM and the W, grandparents, aunts, uncles, friends, pets. I couldn't live with myself knowing I had hurt a whole family full of people who love the man I selfishly stole for myself even tho he didn't belong to me. I know it is naive for me to think that women can love and respect EACH OTHER enough to hold pinky-fingers and swear to never betray a marriage again by persuing or allowing an affair with a MM. But I hope I have at least reminded you that we ARE all women, after all. We are sisters, mothers, friends, daughters....We are all looking for love in this world. We should stick together and do right by each other. As for the men who cheat...well, Ill rant about that another night I guess. I totally agree. If women in general operated this way to begin with the A might never have happend to begin with. We all need to respect one another a great deal more. I also believe that IF the BS and OW in these situations could sit down and discuss what happened (maybe not every detail) but know the truth - both could move on with a clearer direction. The unknown, not knowing the truth, having to guess and invision what was happening on both sides could certainly help the healing process for all - well maybe not the MM - if he was really an ***hole! Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Anyway, basically what I am trying to say is that it would be nice if we could not beat up on each other because our perceptions are so different. Some men probably do go back to their wives because there is an overweaning need to - for their kids or whatever. But there are many recovered marriages that speak for the very obvious fact that this is not always the case. We x-BS get really tired of hearing that our husbands returned for any reason other than they wanted to. There are also a great many men who DO love the OW. I'm certain the OW get plenty sick of hearing that their relationship will NEVER succeed - because some do. You're totally right silk - great post btw - unfortunately there will always be those (on both sides) that would rather vent on the other side than try to see the opposing pov. Ah well - we can try anyway Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I just wrote a really great post (well, I thought it was great) that got lost because it took me so long to write that I got logged off by the system ARGHHHHH My hat is off to you! This is one of the best posts I've seen, EVER! ***THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE*** :bunny::bunny::bunny: Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I just wrote a really great post (well, I thought it was great) that got lost because it took me so long to write that I got logged off by the system ARGHHHHH Anyway, I'm going to try again. The problem IMO between the BS and OW here and elsewhere is summed up pretty well by the highlighted sentences. Both women have been having a relationship with the same man. In many cases he's been lying to both - at the same time. Both women make assumptions based on the lies they hear and the actions they see. It's really quite difficult to wrap our heads around the fact that this man we love, who tell us he love us, is at the same time lying his heinie off. In the case of the BS who manages to rebuild the marriage after D-Day, we feel strongly that we have the truth. We've gone through a staggering amount of pain both singly and with our husbands. We've seen the amount of pain they are in over what they have done. We can see that their actions are fitting their words - and that those actions and words match up with our long history. We check and doublecheck and triple check their words to see if everything continues to line up. At last we feel secure again (it takes quite awhile) Meanwhile, the OW who was with our husbands - in many cases - figures that it's only a matter of time until they return. Often, in a mistaken idea that it's somehow kinder (read that as easier for him), the man in question tells them something like "I will always think of you". This encourages the OW to believe that he really loves her, and is going back to the wife for <fill in the blank here>. Conversely, in the cases where the man leaves his wife to be with the OW, she (now the Only Woman) has gone through a great deal of anguish, pain, learning and etc. with the man. She knows that she is at the start of a change in the relationship, but she knows that he is with her because he wants to be. The BW, however, in some cases simply cannot believe that this man who yesterday was telling her he loved her (because he was still in the lying to his wife phase of the affair) has now left her for another woman. She believes that he had to have been seduced by this lying conniving man-eating other woman (this was sarcasm if you didn't pick up on that yourself). Anyway, basically what I am trying to say is that it would be nice if we could not beat up on each other because our perceptions are so different. Some men probably do go back to their wives because there is an overweaning need to - for their kids or whatever. But there are many recovered marriages that speak for the very obvious fact that this is not always the case. We x-BS get really tired of hearing that our husbands returned for any reason other than they wanted to. There are also a great many men who DO love the OW. I'm certain the OW get plenty sick of hearing that their relationship will NEVER succeed - because some do. A good, refreshing post. It would be nice, really but I don't see that happening. Not with some posters. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 TJ lyssa Love the new avatar. An angel alright. A fallen one. LOL. Cute. end TJ Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 TJ lyssa Love the new avatar. An angel alright. A fallen one. LOL. Cute. end TJ I know, thanks! But I'm getting bored of it Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 My hat is off to you! This is one of the best posts I've seen, EVER! ***THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE*** :bunny::bunny::bunny: It is, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 It is, isn't it? Absolutely! To see it from all sides and all angles, without the intention of tearing anyone down. Now that is priceless. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 You firmly believe that you saw the "BEST" of OM...that he was wholeheartedly yours. MY view on all that I've seen indicates that most commonly he's a SHARED commodity during the affair...at most. And this is a fundamental difference in the way BS's see their M's... and perhaps one of the reasons why their spouses cheated on them in the first place?? To shake loose from that awful sense of ownership over another person. Getting the best out of an MM, and "owning" him, are two totally separate things. I think for almost all MP who choose to stay in the M after infidelity (and this includes BS's as well as CS's), there is a huge "settle" factor involved. They learn to be content with what they have, even when it limits them Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I think for almost all MP who choose to stay in the M after infidelity (and this includes BS's as well as CS's), there is a huge "settle" factor involved. They learn to be content with what they have, even when it limits them I believe that this happens in many cases but I can't believe that this happens in every case. I don't think it's unbelievable for 2 people who once loved each other to rekindle that love. To forgive each other for their part in the breakdown of the M and to move forward and build a better M. Both partners do have to be committed to reconciliation and to each other but I don't think that is unheard of. It is hard work, but it is doable. Link to post Share on other sites
Nevermind Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I don't understand how being with a person who is married (and continues to be so) is all about love and passion and butterflies, while staying with a person in a marriage after you found out that they had an affair is all about settling, money and ownership. Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I don't understand how being with a person who is married (and continues to be so) is all about love and passion and butterflies, while staying with a person in a marriage after you found out that they had an affair is all about settling, money and ownership. I don't either. In fact, I think the BS and OW share more in common than we'd like to believe. Also, why is that a MP can love their spouse and lie to them, but lies to the other person is a sign that he/she does not love them? Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Do you have any idea how stupid this sounds? It's like you are trying to sell people how great it is to be an ow. Sorry honey I'm not buying it. Deal, then? You make the MMs bored and unhappy at home, so that we can get all stuff I listed from them... (Oh, and would you mind if I sent my laundry back with MM too? Since you're doing his you may as well do mine too - it's the same body fluids you'd be washing out of both) No need to ccok for us though - there's this really nice restaurant we've found, and we've become regulars Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Deal, then? You make the MMs bored and unhappy at home, so that we can get all stuff I listed from them... (Oh, and would you mind if I sent my laundry back with MM too? Since you're doing his you may as well do mine too - it's the same body fluids you'd be washing out of both) No need to ccok for us though - there's this really nice restaurant we've found, and we've become regulars .................................................... Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 We're back to the battle cry of the OW...you can't POSSIBLY understand since you've not been there. Gosh - I don't think I've ever uttered that. I always thought the battle cry of the OW was "ah, YES! Do it! Take me, YES! Yes, just there, yes!" Bull doody. Everyone has a sense of empathy and projection. OK as I understand these terms (courtesy wikipedia) Empathy is the capacity to recognize or understand another's state of mind or emotion. It is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes", or to in some way experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself. It may be described metaphorically as an emotional kind of resonance or mirroring. Psychological projection, or "Freudian projection", a defense mechanism in which one attributes to others, one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or emotions. I'd say that some posters definitely lack a sense of empathy (or an inability to display it on LS - they may of course be completely different offline) though other display it in sophisticated form. And that there's altogether too much projection, usually by those lacking in / unable to display empathy. Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I'd say that some posters definitely lack a sense of empathy (or an inability to display it on LS - they may of course be completely different offline) though other display it in sophisticated form. And that there's altogether too much projection, usually by those lacking in / unable to display empathy. ............................................................... Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I don't either. In fact, I think the BS and OW share more in common than we'd like to believe. Also, why is that a MP can love their spouse and lie to them, but lies to the other person is a sign that he/she does not love them? The MP/CS is lying to both and benefits from both. Deep down, both that are lied to know it and still put up with it. There is a payoff on both ends. All ends. Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 The MP/CS is lying to both and benefits from both. Deep down, both that are lied to know it and still put up with it. There is a payoff on both ends. All ends. My point exactly. It's hard to argue a point for one side and not see it on the other. That's why we can all spend hours and hours going around and around with each other. Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 It usually starts from the point where the MM starts lying to himself......the rest of the repercussions are like ripples in a pond from the first stone he throws........ Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 It usually starts from the point where the MM starts lying to himself......the rest of the repercussions are like ripples in a pond from the first stone he throws........ Nice analogy. Virgo1982, yes, we could certainly go hours and hours at it, couldn't we? Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Nice analogy. Virgo1982, yes, we could certainly go hours and hours at it, couldn't we? After further reflection, that is an incredibly inaccurate understatement... Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 After further reflection, that is an incredibly inaccurate understatement... Going around for hours and hours? How about years? Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Going around for hours and hours? How about years? Right Link to post Share on other sites
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