A note to all the OW's out there:

[pelicanpreacher]

And this is a fundamental difference in the way BS's see their M's... and perhaps one of the reasons why their spouses cheated on them in the first place?? To shake loose from that awful sense of ownership over another person.

 

Getting the best out of an MM, and "owning" him, are two totally separate things.

 

I think for almost all MP who choose to stay in the M after infidelity (and this includes BS's as well as CS's), there is a huge "settle" factor involved. They learn to be content with what they have, even when it limits them

 

I thought that I adequately dispensed with the "Inertia" theory in the following post:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1736963&postcount=154

 

I can only imagine a few scenarios where settling for the "status quo" would be feasible where the marriage is sustained for the duration.

 

First would be those individuals in certain aristocratic circles or positions of prominent public stature where appearances to the outside world bode more importance than maintaining the dynamics of a truely committed marriage. Another might be when a spouse's dedication addressing the needs of a terminally ill, or, severely injured or incapacitated spouse might evoke a greater sense of loyalty to remain in the relationship during or after an affair. Finally, there are those individuals who fear the emotional damage their children may sustain from divorce who might suspend taking action until the children are old enough to handle this type of trauma to the family.

 

Even if you are speaking exclusively about the final example presented one can be assured that if the status quo doesn't change radically with vigorous work by both spouses over time then that marriage is doomed to fail as soon as the last child is out of the home so I hesitate to consider this scenario as an example that would be anywhere as enduring as the prior two.

 

Maybe I'm "all wet" here but I just don't see settling forever unless the marital circumstances are beyond the norm.

[OWoman]

I thought that I adequately dispensed with the "Inertia" theory in the following post:

 

Nope.

 

There are countless threads on these forums of people who have 'settled'. Read around and you'll see.

 

(I know many examples IRL too, but you're more likely to believe people writing in their own words than second-hand related anecdote.)

 

Real life doesn't always fit neatly to our cosy theories or assumptions.

[pelicanpreacher]

Nope.

 

There are countless threads on these forums of people who have 'settled'. Read around and you'll see.

 

(I know many examples IRL too, but you're more likely to believe people writing in their own words than second-hand related anecdote.)

 

Real life doesn't always fit neatly to our cosy theories or assumptions.

 

This might be true of most of the older generation whose mindset entering marriage included a true lifelong commitment and the notion that divorce was a failure too scandalous to contemplate but, with today's divorce rate exceeding 50% amongst the less recent entries to the marital pool, with infidelity being the primary cause of marital discord in the US, that settling has become a long lost art.

 

In my mind, settling or "minimum acceptable inertia" requires that neither spouse expect improvement nor deterioration of their marriage beyond the status quo which I find impossible to comprehend after DDay for the relationship has changed too drastically in the area of trust to effectively resume with the same old "rattle and hum". Of course one can make the argument that once the fireworks are over that the relationship does settle into a state of inertia for which both partners settle but, that's an errant assessment as well. I contend that should the marriage begin to decline again into the realm of the status quo then even a repentant cheating partner will cheat again or file for divorce themselves because if a marriage can't resume an inclining direction of growth then continually moving on an inexorably downward slide into oblivion will doom the marriage anyway.

 

(The posts by "Independent Guy" comes to mind as an example)

 

Just because you can't see the grass grow doesn't mean it isn't getting any taller!

[Blue Eyed Brain]

I would put my energy towards my H instead of the person he cheated with.

 

Men usually seek outside the marriage when they have been verbal abused, neglected, bored or no longer attracted to their wives. Instead of going with someone else, he should be talking to his wife and working things out.

 

Since he didn't and found someone that would (assuming that it wasn't the first person he saw). He sought out someone to have a physical relationship with - that's not good for your marriage.

 

You need to find out what you can do to fix your problems or get out of the marriage. It's your and your husbands' problem.

[silktricks]

I think for almost all MP who choose to stay in the M after infidelity (and this includes BS's as well as CS's), there is a huge "settle" factor involved. They learn to be content with what they have, even when it limits them

 

Hmmm - well, the man I'm with - the man I love - the man who cheated on me once.... Yes, I'm content with him. I'm content that he loves me beyond life. I'm content that our life together is a joy. I'm content that our intimacy is beyond anything that either of us have experienced with anyone else. I'm content that I am happy.

 

I'm content.

 

He's also content. He knows that he is loved deeply and enduringly. He knows that there is no one else in the world who will fit him as do I. He is content with the love we have, the passion we have, the togetherness we have. He's content that his love is returned full measure equalling his own passion.

 

He's content.

 

Is that a bad thing???? :love:

[OpenBook]

Hmmm - well, the man I'm with - the man I love - the man who cheated on me once.... Yes, I'm content with him. I'm content that he loves me beyond life. I'm content that our life together is a joy. I'm content that our intimacy is beyond anything that either of us have experienced with anyone else. I'm content that I am happy.

 

I'm content.

 

He's also content. He knows that he is loved deeply and enduringly. He knows that there is no one else in the world who will fit him as do I. He is content with the love we have, the passion we have, the togetherness we have. He's content that his love is returned full measure equalling his own passion.

 

He's content.

 

Is that a bad thing???? :love:

 

No, not at all silk. It's a very good thing.

 

Of course, it doesn't explain why he cheated on you in the first place. But if you can leave all that behind you, with no doubts in your minds whether it'll happen again, more power to you.

[silktricks]

No, not at all silk. It's a very good thing.

 

Of course, it doesn't explain why he cheated on you in the first place. But if you can leave all that behind you, with no doubts in your minds whether it'll happen again, more power to you.

 

OB, why he cheated doesn't much matter anymore. He did - he bitterly regrets it - it won't happen again - and I've forgiven him. I feel bad for you, as it seems that you think true forgiveness is impossible. I hope that someday you'll find it isn't.

[Owl]

Silk-

 

Honest question...what steps have you taken to reassure yourself that the "holes in the marriage are plugged"? I believe he regrets it, and that's a huge start towards prevention...and therefore a huge start towards reconciliation and rebuilding. I'm just curious...what did you do to rebuild the trust, what did you do to 'affair proof"?

[OWoman]

OB, why he cheated doesn't much matter anymore. He did - he bitterly regrets it - it won't happen again - and I've forgiven him. I feel bad for you, as it seems that you think true forgiveness is impossible. I hope that someday you'll find it isn't.

 

True forgiveness has to be earned, it's not simply given. (I think the latter is what was called "cheap forgiveness" in that book I thought was trite and obvious, and Owl thought was useful.) And if it's earned, the person from whom it is earned benefits themselves by forgiving the one doing the earning.

 

It's hard, but it's doable if both parties are prepared to make the effort - and sustain the effort once the initial forgiveness has been signed off. That's a lot of "if", and it's great Silk that you've been able to get there.

[Owl]

...trite and obvious

 

If it were trite and obvious, everyone would be doing it. However, since we're posting on an OW/OM forum, clearly...they're not! :) :)

 

Sorry...just had to point out the "obvious" this morning!

[OWoman]

If it were trite and obvious, everyone would be doing it. However, since we're posting on an OW/OM forum, clearly...they're not! :) :)

 

Sorry...just had to point out the "obvious" this morning!

 

Uhm, Owl, it seems we're talking at cross-purposes here? Why would an OW/ OM forum contradict notions of forgiving people for heinous acts (however one defines a heinous act, since it's in the perception of the "victim" of the act) committed against one?

[silktricks]

Silk-

 

Honest question...what steps have you taken to reassure yourself that the "holes in the marriage are plugged"? I believe he regrets it, and that's a huge start towards prevention...and therefore a huge start towards reconciliation and rebuilding. I'm just curious...what did you do to rebuild the trust, what did you do to 'affair proof"?

 

We spent years working out what caused the problems that led to his cheating. Both of us tended to be people who would choose to not "rock the boat" when there were problems, as a result we didn't address things as they occurred. Now we don't let things go. If something happens - if either of us has a WTF moment, we bring it out and talk about it.

 

We were each married before AND we each had rather ----- ummm ---- unusual birth families. Each of us tended to make assumptions about the behavior of the other - without checking for validity of our assumptions. We don't do that anymore.

 

We both have terrible tempers - which certainly makes life exciting - but it can also make it painful at times. My husband is totally upfront about the fact that the root cause of his affair was anger. He was terribly, horribly angry with me - but he was also terribly angry with the type of woman he had the affair with - so he had no qualms about lying to either of us at the time. Because I've done some fairly outrageous things from the root cause of anger I could probably understand better than some can about what rage can cause.

 

But - to truly answer your question - what have we done to affair proof our marriage - we communicate. Neither of us hide our heads or our emotions any more. We never wanted to create problems - and that was what led to the problems, so now we face them head on, knowing that the worst that can happen is not as bad as what already did happen.

 

What we did to rebuild trust - well, that was more difficult to be sure. I am not a person who trusts easily. The fact that it was gone was probably the hardest part of the whole situation for him, as he valued that trust - knowing I had never really given it before. He was open - about everything. When I would ask a question, he would answer it. If his answer didn't "match" with my inner feelings - I would talk to him about it. He would search himself. I would search myself. I would question him repeatedly about the same thing - making sure his answers were consistent. He gave me complete and total transparency. He was incredibly patient about how long it took - and it took a VERY long time. (This sounds way more peaceful than it actually was - there was a lot of shouting and angst in the mix! )

 

OW - I never meant that forgiveness should be a walk in the park. But it should be possible. Too often on this forum it is implied - or even stated - that it is not possible to forgive a cheating spouse - and most of the people who say it are those the cheater has been cheating with - which makes like zero sense to me....

[Owl]

Thank you, Silk. And you've clearly demonstrated exactly HOW you can 'leave all that behind'. You don't...you learn from it, and you take steps to protect yourself and your marriage from it happening again.

 

If you acted like it never happened...you're just setting yourself up to see it happened again.

 

If you LEARN from it, and learn what to fix as a result of it...you CAN go forward in a great marriage.

[Owl]

Actually Owoman, the reason that I made the "trite and obvious" comment was based on the books full title...which includes "How to "affair proof" your marriage".

 

If the book was trite and obvious, no one would ever NEED to 'affair proof'...and so this forum wouldn't exist!

[Tomcat33]

If the book was trite and obvious, no one would ever NEED to 'affair proof'...and so this forum wouldn't exist! :)

 

 

Sorry but a lot of those books are trite and obvious.

 

 

Silk, I am amazed at your story truly remarkable. What an insightful post!!

[herenow]

Sorry but a lot of those books are trite and obvious.

 

The thing that I didn't like about some of these books is the game playing they suggest.

 

For example the 180. IMO this is game of cat and mouse. To pretend like you don't care or to act in a way that isn't genuine so that you can get the attention of your spouse. I know this works for some, but for me, I need to be myself. If I'm angry, then it shows, if I have questions, I ask them. I wasn't able to do the 180 because that theory asked me to hide my true feelings. When you are trying to rebuild trust, why hide behind a game that in itself is a lie?

[silktricks]

I've never read any of those "fixing a marriage" books. I have in the past read some self-help books - but found that they didn't - (help, that is). So I gave up reading other people's idea's - as they may apply to other people, but not necessarily to me

[Owl]

Actually, I agree with you, HN. I never bought into the 180plan myself. Now, plan A and plan B on marriagebuilders...they made sense to me. Simply because it was an effort to show the changes that you were making.

[OWoman]

Actually Owoman, the reason that I made the "trite and obvious" comment was based on the books full title...which includes "How to "affair proof" your marriage".

 

If the book was trite and obvious, no one would ever NEED to 'affair proof'...and so this forum wouldn't exist!

 

Ah. Wrong book then. I haven't read that, nor would I likely be drawn to.

 

The book I was referring to, was "How can I forgive you?" subtitled "The courage to forgive, the freedom not to", but Janis Abrahms Spring, author of the best-selling "After the affair".

 

It's not a book about As, although she's done clinical work in that area and some of her examples are about forgiveness after an A. It's a book about forgiving people who have wronged you (in whatever way) significantly - or choosing not to, or choosing to accept it without "forgiving cheaply" if they won't earn your forgiveness through remorse and whatever else it takes to rebuild the relationship.

[Lyssa]

Sorry but a lot of those books are trite and obvious.

 

Self-help books or any type of book in that line (marriage, affairs, Rs) make me laugh. Also, some of those self-help tapes. I can't help but laugh at how silly they are.

 

I guess they work for some people.

[OpenBook]

OB, why he cheated doesn't much matter anymore. He did - he bitterly regrets it - it won't happen again - and I've forgiven him. I feel bad for you, as it seems that you think true forgiveness is impossible. I hope that someday you'll find it isn't.

 

To each his own, I say. You go right ahead and feel bad for me... and I'll do a little Snoopy Dance because I'm not in your shoes.

 

And here's my hope for you: that your H never becomes "deeply angry" with you again, ever.

[silktricks]

To each his own, I say. You go right ahead and feel bad for me... and I'll do a little Snoopy Dance because I'm not in your shoes.

 

And here's my hope for you: that your H never becomes "deeply angry" with you again, ever.

 

Enjoy your dance. I like my shoes just fine, thank-you.

 

Hope you're feeling better soon.