A note to all the OW's out there:

[Tomcat33]

Fair enough TC. And I do see, and freely admit that I post responses to people with a specific agenda in mind. End their pain, and get them moving in the right direction to resolve the problem as quickly as possible.

 

The reason I go straight to red instead of purple first isn't because its my favorite color. Its because so many people want to FOCUS on red when deep down they actually KNOW that they need purple...but it hurts them to face purple...so they AVOID focusing on the things that they need by focusing on something less painful...but unfortunately this has the end result of letting them avoid the problem and drag out the situation overall.

 

Leaving them to wallow and focus on something that's not going to help them in any fashion simply isn't my style.

 

WOW I am amazed you didn't fight me on this. Ok cool glad you see where I am coming from. I see where you are coming from OWL I know you are trying to get to the nitty gritty to truly help someone see the light. I get that and I don't think you are NOT trying to help, people look up to you here I am not stupid and I can see you are of help. But you just can't dismiss people's experiences. I know you are of one way of thinking and that is the A is fantasy and there it nothing real in it at all that, well really you can't be expecting everyone to respond to that in a postive way.

 

If an OW tells you "I got the best of my partner, moreso than the W of my partner did at the time" at least give them the benefit of the doubt instead of trying to brain wash them into seeing something that is simply not true to them. Im sorry but that whole thing you went into about PERCETION?!?!? C'mon, is perception making you think you are in love with a woman who is actually not devoted to you or are her actions showing you that she is actually devote and loves you? How would you feel if I told you, no way your W doesn't give two hoots about you it is just your "perception"?

[jj2007]

 

you are not attempting to disucss things with me you are attempting to forcefeed me a concept I don't adhere to, as you very well tend to do

 

Boy, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

You are very argumental and standoffish when someone doesn't agree with what you are saying. You seem to get so worked up about it. Surely you can see it? Everyone here has their own opinion-and we are all entitled to it. You seem to want to argue opinions when they don't match yours. Try to step back and look at things from a different perspective for a change. Just a suggestion.

[Owl]

If an OW tells you "I got the best of my partner, moreso than the W of my partner did at the time" at least give them the benefit of the doubt instead of trying to brain wash them into seeing something that is simply not true to them.

 

Its not brainwashing...its simple logic. You don't know if you "got the best of OM" or not...since you're not seeing exactly what it is the wife is getting.

 

In the case where MM is seperated and living with OW...sure, she can see it.

 

In a situation where he's still living at home...in a place where the OW can't crystal ball into...she's got to work off ASSUMPTION and PERCEPTION.

 

I give the benefit of the doubt based off the circumstances that have been described...as in your case. You well might have had "the best"...since she couldn't have gotten much when he was living with you.

[Tomcat33]

Its not brainwashing...its simple logic. You don't know if you "got the best of OM" or not...since you're not seeing exactly what it is the wife is getting.

 

 

 

I got the best based on I need to fall deeply inlove with someone. And while you are right that I have no idea what this man was giving to his W (my sit is different since he was not living at home but let's just suppose he did) you would have to be superhuman to give the amount of giving one is doing to one person and do the same for a spouse.

 

OWL plenty of BS can speak up and say if they were getting the optimum from their partners while they were in the A. One of the main reasons people catch on to the affair is because they notice their partners are withdrawn, preocupied, disintrested and the list goes on and on.....all that is being deposited somewhere else, so that someone else IS getting the best of them. These are the proverbial "roomate" situations we keep hearing about.

 

The best of a person is all the GOOD a person can give to another to make them feel good. If a MP is making a third party feel good they are not making their partner feel as good as they could, if at all. See what I mean?

 

 

 

Warning condescending comment up ahead, proceed with caution...

 

I saw what I was getting and that was the best for me!

[Tomcat33]

I give the benefit of the doubt based off the circumstances that have been described...as in your case. You well might have had "the best"...since she couldn't have gotten much when he was living with you.

 

 

He was not living with me, he was living in his own apartment. when our EA started, he was still living at home, he was so preoccupied with me I was amazed he was living with someone I seriously thought he was lying that he has a W the guy was free weekends evenings calling me all the time from home emailing day and night weekends, I mean the night I met him he was at an event all alone and he would frequent events alone ALL the time. There was not devotion there, trust me.

[Owl]

I think we're back to semantics, TC.

 

I agree...the BS is absolutely getting LESS from their WS during the affair than they did prior to it...and that is usually one of the #1 warning signs that causes them to realize something's wrong.

 

And I agree...the WS typically gradually shifts more and more of that attention from the BS to the OM/OW.

 

And..."best" is a subjective word.

 

I know that I wasn't getting the BEST from my wife during her affair. I know that she was more focused on the OM than she was on me. But...OM never saw the whole "best" of what my wife is overall...he barely got a taste of what its like to have her completely.

 

Had she moved in with him...he would have started to see that. I don't doubt that either.

 

I think we're just arguing over nothing at this point.

[Tomcat33]

I think we're back to semantics, TC.

 

I agree...the BS is absolutely getting LESS from their WS during the affair than they did prior to it...and that is usually one of the #1 warning signs that causes them to realize something's wrong.

 

And I agree...the WS typically gradually shifts more and more of that attention from the BS to the OM/OW.

 

And..."best" is a subjective word.

 

I know that I wasn't getting the BEST from my wife during her affair. I know that she was more focused on the OM than she was on me. But...OM never saw the whole "best" of what my wife is overall...he barely got a taste of what its like to have her completely.

 

Had she moved in with him...he would have started to see that. I don't doubt that either.

 

I think we're just arguing over nothing at this point.

 

 

That's all I have been saying all along. HOOORAY!!! (we need a party icon with balloons and one of those twirly horn thingies you blow out of)

 

 

the "best" is not subejctive OWL, best of someone is the better quailities they can offer you to make you feel good to make you feel loved. Mental and spiritual devotion emcompass that rather well. OPs tend to get the best of someone in an A.

[Tomcat33]

You know what? BEST is prob not a good word, how about the "better"

[Owl]

How about "more"?

 

And again...its also dependent upon the situation as well. Some MM can't give more...we've seen any number of cases where the OW talks about how her MM shows up once or twice a week...that's hardly "more"...or the "best".

[Tomcat33]

How about "more"?

 

And again...its also dependent upon the situation as well. Some MM can't give more...we've seen any number of cases where the OW talks about how her MM shows up once or twice a week...that's hardly "more"...or the "best".

 

I agree, my comments are always taking into account that there are many different situations.

 

Personally if I had to choose between having a zombie of a man come home to me every night and sleep next to me totally disinterested and lacking in communication, I would rather get him twice a week in a normal state than to have him moping around in a distant state. So again, I would would consider my two days a week still getting the best of him.

[herenow]

You know what? BEST is prob not a good word, how about the "better"

 

How about the fact that the BW isn't even aware that she is even sharing her H? During the affair, she still believes she is getting the whole. After the affair is when reality sets in on who is getting the best. JMO.

 

I still believe that there is no "best" of a man who is cheating on his wife. Again JMO.

 

Just because it makes you feel good, doesn't mean it's good for you!

[Tomcat33]

How about the fact that the BW isn't even aware that she is even sharing her H? During the affair, she still believes she is getting the whole. After the affair is when reality sets in on who is getting the best. JMO.

 

See this I don't understand, how can you not know you are not getting a whole when they are off loving someone else!?!? I guess in some instances men put on great appearances at home? SO then how do you even know they are having an A if that is that case?

 

 

Just because it makes you feel good, doesn't mean it's good for you!

 

I agree, but we typically look for people that make us feel good when we fall in love we may later find out a person is all wrong for us but that's what time is for.

[Tomcat33]

I still believe that there is no "best" of a man who is cheating on his wife. Again JMO.

 

 

Ok so let me ask you this, what would be getting the best of man to you?

[Owl]

Well, if he's not giving much in the first place...you wouldn't notice that he's giving some to someone else...

 

If he's not giving a 'full effort' or close at home to begin with...he's not detracting from that when he starts giving that unused excess to the OW/OM.

 

That's why some are completely blindsided.

[luvmy2ns]

2 is a very small percentage of 7, isn't it? I certainly wouldn't deem that the "best" of anything, or even the "better." I'd label that crumbs.

[Owl]

I agree, my comments are always taking into account that there are many different situations.

 

Personally if I had to choose between having a zombie of a man come home to me every night and sleep next to me totally disinterested and lacking in communication, I would rather get him twice a week in a normal state than to have him moping around in a distant state. So again, I would would consider my two days a week still getting the best of him.

 

Again...you're ASSUMING he's a zombie when he's at home.

 

That's not always true, by any means. That's again a kind of a negative judgement that he's a zombie when he's with the wife, but he's alive when he's with the OW. Can you see how this can be taken as an insult?

 

Nor is it a true statement. Its called COMPARTMENTALIZATION...and most WS's are masters of this.

 

They're seperating what they're giving the marriage vs what they're giving the affair. And they're doing so to prevent it from being noticed, so that they can continue the status quo...so they can keep BOTH.

[Tomcat33]

Ok guys summer hours and I should have been out of here two hours ago....

 

Gotta go burn a hole in my wallet. Catch up with you later maybe... have a good one!

[Tomcat33]

Again...you're ASSUMING he's a zombie when he's at home.

 

That's not always true, by any means. That's again a kind of a negative judgement that he's a zombie when he's with the wife, but he's alive when he's with the OW. Can you see how this can be taken as an insult?

 

Nor is it a true statement. Its called COMPARTMENTALIZATION...and most WS's are masters of this.

 

They're seperating what they're giving the marriage vs what they're giving the affair. And they're doing so to prevent it from being noticed, so that they can continue the status quo...so they can keep BOTH.

 

Woops just saw this... again I am going on what I hear others talk about and of course what my ex told me. Of course there are those that play along at home and pretend like nothing is happening.

 

And before you ask so why do you trust they are telling the truth they are liars afterall, well the same reason you trust your WSs are no longer fantasizing or yearning for their ex A partners, you just trust what they tell you because you choose to believe them.

[herenow]

See this I don't understand, how can you not know you are not getting a whole when they are off loving someone else!?!? I guess in some instances men put on great appearances at home? SO then how do you even know they are having an A if that is that case?

.

 

That's the point, you don't know they are having an affair. Some people are great at compartmentalizing and living a dual life.

 

When I look back on the time my H was having an affair, yes I can put the puzzle together and, knowing what I know now, there were signs. But, I didn't know that then and I didn't see any signs at all.

 

During that time, we had a great family vacation, great sex, romantic dinners, laughed, went to movies, celebrated his birthday, etc. He cared for me when I was sick. Was there for our family. Told me he loved me. Acted like he loved me. Held me in his arms at night. Kissed me in the morning before he went to work. Basically, acted like he normally acted before the affair.

 

Life went on and I still thought I was getting not only the "best", but all of him. I was obviously wrong. In reality, I would have been better of with none of him at that point in time.

[luvmy2ns]

That's the point, you don't know they are having an affair. Some people are great at compartmentalizing and living a dual life.

 

When I look back on the time my H was having an affair, yes I can put the puzzle together and, knowing what I know now, there were signs. But, I didn't know that then and I didn't see any signs at all.

 

During that time, we had a great family vacation, great sex, romantic dinners, laughed, went to movies, celebrated his birthday, etc. He cared for me when I was sick. Was there for our family. Told me he loved me. Acted like he loved me. Held me in his arms at night. Kissed me in the morning before he went to work. Basically, acted like he normally acted before the affair.

 

Life went on and I still thought I was getting not only the "best", but all of him. I was obviously wrong. In reality, I would have been better of with none of him at that point in time.

 

And I'm sure, during all this, he was telling the OW that there was no sex and you were a lifeless bitch, and the OW lapped it up.

[herenow]

And I'm sure, during all this, he was telling the OW that there was no sex and you were a lifeless bitch, and the OW lapped it up.

 

Actually, the OW made those assumptions herself. He lied by omission. She assumed he wasn't having sex with me because he never mentioned me. She assumed that we had a bad marriage because he never told her any different. I guess you can say that the fact that he was even with her was a sign that we had a bad marriage, but he never spoke about our marriage with her, so she had no idea that we were still living like two happily married people.

 

Even when the affair ended, she assumed he stayed with me because he was such a great father. In one of her post-affair emails, she said something like "I understand why you "have" to stay, you don't need to tell me, just promise you will call me when things are under control at home" (not sure those were the exact words) WTF? She wasn't even listening to what he was saying when he did tell her the truth. She was in her own fantasy world and reality wasn't sinking in. Like I have said before with help from our therapist, we finally got her to understand. At least I hope she understands.

[NoIDidn't]

Best when the A is on-going. Worst once its over. Hence all the demands on treating the dumped OWs on the Infidelity Threads like human beings instead of just forgetting about them (as they seem to be told to do).

 

Some days I cook gourmet meals for my family. Somedays they get hotdogs. Big deal.

[hot123]

Well, I'd respond that you've got a massive track record of attempting to devalue the BS's position in virtually every thread you've participated on based on YOUR experiences as OW...so I would guess that makes us good counterweights for each other.

 

And I'm sorry TC...but looking back over our threads, I've got to say that my view is likely far more 'balanced' than yours has been.

 

Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

amen to that!

[silktricks]

Actually, the OW made those assumptions herself. He lied by omission. She assumed he wasn't having sex with me because he never mentioned me. She assumed that we had a bad marriage because he never told her any different. I guess you can say that the fact that he was even with her was a sign that we had a bad marriage, but he never spoke about our marriage with her, so she had no idea that we were still living like two happily married people.

 

Even when the affair ended, she assumed he stayed with me because he was such a great father. In one of her post-affair emails, she said something like "I understand why you "have" to stay, you don't need to tell me, just promise you will call me when things are under control at home" (not sure those were the exact words) WTF? She wasn't even listening to what he was saying when he did tell her the truth. She was in her own fantasy world and reality wasn't sinking in. Like I have said before with help from our therapist, we finally got her to understand. At least I hope she understands.

 

I just wrote a really great post (well, I thought it was great) that got lost because it took me so long to write that I got logged off by the system ARGHHHHH

 

Anyway, I'm going to try again.

 

The problem IMO between the BS and OW here and elsewhere is summed up pretty well by the highlighted sentences.

 

Both women have been having a relationship with the same man. In many cases he's been lying to both - at the same time. Both women make assumptions based on the lies they hear and the actions they see. It's really quite difficult to wrap our heads around the fact that this man we love, who tell us he love us, is at the same time lying his heinie off.

 

In the case of the BS who manages to rebuild the marriage after D-Day, we feel strongly that we have the truth. We've gone through a staggering amount of pain both singly and with our husbands. We've seen the amount of pain they are in over what they have done. We can see that their actions are fitting their words - and that those actions and words match up with our long history. We check and doublecheck and triple check their words to see if everything continues to line up. At last we feel secure again (it takes quite awhile)

 

Meanwhile, the OW who was with our husbands - in many cases - figures that it's only a matter of time until they return. Often, in a mistaken idea that it's somehow kinder (read that as easier for him), the man in question tells them something like "I will always think of you". This encourages the OW to believe that he really loves her, and is going back to the wife for <fill in the blank here>.

 

Conversely, in the cases where the man leaves his wife to be with the OW, she (now the Only Woman) has gone through a great deal of anguish, pain, learning and etc. with the man. She knows that she is at the start of a change in the relationship, but she knows that he is with her because he wants to be.

 

The BW, however, in some cases simply cannot believe that this man who yesterday was telling her he loved her (because he was still in the lying to his wife phase of the affair) has now left her for another woman. She believes that he had to have been seduced by this lying conniving man-eating other woman (this was sarcasm if you didn't pick up on that yourself).

 

Anyway, basically what I am trying to say is that it would be nice if we could not beat up on each other because our perceptions are so different. Some men probably do go back to their wives because there is an overweaning need to - for their kids or whatever. But there are many recovered marriages that speak for the very obvious fact that this is not always the case. We x-BS get really tired of hearing that our husbands returned for any reason other than they wanted to. There are also a great many men who DO love the OW. I'm certain the OW get plenty sick of hearing that their relationship will NEVER succeed - because some do.

[NoIDidn't]

Anyway, basically what I am trying to say is that it would be nice if we could not beat up on each other because our perceptions are so different. Some men probably do go back to their wives because there is an overweaning need to - for their kids or whatever. But there are many recovered marriages that speak for the very obvious fact that this is not always the case. We x-BS get really tired of hearing that our husbands returned for any reason other than they wanted to. There are also a great many men who DO love the OW. I'm certain the OW get plenty sick of hearing that their relationship will NEVER succeed - because some do.

 

 

<jumping up and down.....whooping and hollering.......>

 

Exactly!!! For both points!!!! Exactly!!!!!

 

I am sure that the more temperate posters on each side can agree with this.