Suicidal tendencies

[Owl]

PG-

 

Realize this is all four years in the past for me now.

 

I'm not in that state of mind at all anymore.

 

With that said...my wife knew about them for sure AFTER the fact. At the time, she suspected but I never discussed it with her. (I did tell her that I'd wished she'd just had me killed or poisoned me BEFORE she'd started down this path and had planned on leaving to live with OM). She was astounded at how devestated I was, as were my kids. My boys were all shaken at seeing me broken down like that.

 

Remember, I'm normally the "tough guy" who can take anything. Ex-Army SGT, yada yada yada.

 

My wife asked me directly about all of this a few weeks later when we started counseling, and I was honest about it all.

[Tomcat33]

What I'm trying to say is that in my opinion, the people that make it known what they are doing are just doing it for attention. If someone is serious about it they don't make it known, they JUST DO IT!. (I know there are exceptions though) I was fortunate enough to be ignorant on a lethal dose of pills for my attempts & just puked them all up & was sick in bed for a while. The other time my mother found me as I was cutting my wrist & stopped me.

 

 

 

I understand a lot of people are of this opinion, but please anyone out there reading this thread and who have questions about suicide DO NOT THINK THIS IS TRUE.

 

There are plenty people who talk about it and still go through with it, one of the biggest misconceptions about suicide is that those who go through with it don't reach out, they most certainly do. So that idea is simply NOT TRUE.

[Ms. Red]

I understand a lot of people are of this opinion, but please anyone out there reading this thread and who have questions about suicide DO NOT THINK THIS IS TRUE.

 

There are plenty people who talk about it and still go through with it, one of the biggest misconceptions about suicide is that those who go through with it don't reach out, they most certainly do. So that idea is simply NOT TRUE.

 

I totally agree. I should have added that it should ALWAYS still be taken seriously. My son recently told a friend he "should just kill himself". He was very upset with me at the time for taking away one of his favorite past times as punishment. I have all his friends as contacts & this friend immediately sent me a text. I proceeded as if my son was totally serious. I would not let him out of sight & treated him as if he meant what he said until I could get him into an emergency psych appointment.

 

He admitted at the appointment that he didn't really want to do it. And that's the way I felt but I did not take a chance. With my boyfriends, I handled that differently & refused to talk to them because after being physically & mentally abusive I really felt they were just trying to manipulate me into running to them.

[Lyssa]

Someone please mark down the date and time...TC and I have AGREED with each other!!! LOL! :)

 

Got that! It's on my comp, iPhone and diary. I'll remind you both next year same time and date!

[Ms. Red]

Tomcat, you said you have worked with suicidal teens. I could really use your input if I may PM you. I have a gaming contact on-line that in my opinion is out of control & could use some advice. I just don't know if I say the right things to him.

 

May I PM you regarding this?

 

Swy to go off-topic PG.

[Tomcat33]

I totally agree. I should have added that it should ALWAYS still be taken seriously. My son recently told a friend he "should just kill himself". He was very upset with me at the time for taking away one of his favorite past times as punishment. I have all his friends as contacts & this friend immediately sent me a text. I proceeded as if my son was totally serious. I would not let him out of sight & treated him as if he meant what he said until I could get him into an emergency psych appointment.

 

He admitted at the appointment that he didn't really want to do it. And that's the way I felt but I did not take a chance. With my boyfriends, I handled that differently & refused to talk to them because after being physically & mentally abusive I really felt they were just trying to manipulate me into running to them.

 

 

WOW Red I am sorry to hear about your son, that must have been so scary for you! I can't imagine what it must be like for a parent to feel that?

 

As per your exes, I can also understand that with some people there will definitely be hessitation to get sucked into a game of manipulation and nothing more. In that case a person does not directly need to get involved if they feel their own health will be put in danger, but one can always offer to call 911 or a hotline to have someone come to their aid.

[Tomcat33]

Tomcat, you said you have worked with suicidal teens. I could really use your input if I may PM you. I have a gaming contact on-line that in my opinion is out of control & could use some advice. I just don't know if I say the right things to him.

 

May I PM you regarding this?

 

Swy to go off-topic PG.

 

 

ABSOLUTELY RED!!!! don't hessitate to contact me, I will help you to the best of my knowledge.

[Lyssa]

I totally agree. I should have added that it should ALWAYS still be taken seriously. My son recently told a friend he "should just kill himself". He was very upset with me at the time for taking away one of his favorite past times as punishment. I have all his friends as contacts & this friend immediately sent me a text. I proceeded as if my son was totally serious. I would not let him out of sight & treated him as if he meant what he said until I could get him into an emergency psych appointment.

 

That must be really scary for you! It was a good call that you had all his friends' contacts - thank goodness one informed you of what he said.

 

Yup, can't imagine how that must have felt for you.

[Nevermind]

The thread I had in the infidelity forum seems to have fallen victim to the bug in May..

 

So, short recap: I found out that my ex was having an affair (starting on my birthday) for months on a sunday, he kept lieing all through the entire week. On thursday, after no sleep and zero food I cut myself to relive pain (had previous experience with this in puberty). And I was considering suicide.

 

Yes, I did tell my ex.

 

So am I the lowest that I can be? Possibly. I view it as a personal low, my darkest hour and my weakest moment. It makes me feel bad to think about how little I could cope with the pain back then, how I couldn't see straight.

YET, I have not asked him to come back to me then, nor have I ever asked him that. I never said "this is your fault". I just couldn't understand it and I had no feelings but pain anymore. If you read anything about my relationship background, then you might realize that I had come to value his opinion and guidance much higher than my own. I needed help and I went to the worst source possible - him.

 

Should I have kept silent, kept cutting, kept shaking? Maybe it would have been the mature thing to do, but in that moment I owed no one any explanation. I owed it to myself to fight in any way for me.

 

Think about me what you will. I am not proud of that day. But I am not an evil scheming clown who cried suicide to manipulate feelings. I cried suicide because it was the end point of all my thoughts that day. So, laugh and furrow your brows all you want, in the end I did the right thing.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The MW needs help, and this is what she is asking for. Any attempt is a cry for help at the very least. She does not need to be ridiculed, or looked down upon.

[PG Love]

I totally agree that she needs help and hopefully she is getting the help she needs right now. As far as I know she has volunteered to stay for treatment at least for the next couple of days. Either that or she has been released and is staying with friends, who knows for sure. MM was going to go by the hospital this evening and see how long she was going to be treated for so he could let their son know what's going on.

 

Owl~ The reason I ask is that W called their son and told him that she was writing him a final letter and signing all of the money over into his name (He is 23 and lives at the same house, but he is out of town on business this week). He in turn called MM and asked him to go check on her. I don't know all of the events that unfolded to get her to the hospital, besides a call from a friend. She has used this twice now to get MM to stay at her house for extended periods of time. That is the only reason I question her motives. She made sure to send me an e-mail to let me know the last time he was at the house and for how long because of this. She ended up taking the pills yesterday while he was asleep on the couch and then made a big production of not being able to keep them down. He took the day off of work for "suicide watch". To me it just seems just for show, but I hope that we can all work past it and move on.

[silktricks]

no, sorry for any confusion, that mindset refers to the "attempts" (they never really think that they may succeed, but some do).

 

Exactly, which is why the mention of suicide should immediately be taken seriously. Help is required.

[silktricks]

PG, Sorry to write a novel. What I'm trying to say is that in my opinion, the people that make it known what they are doing are just doing it for attention. If someone is serious about it they don't make it known, they JUST DO IT!.

 

Ummm - this really isn't true. There are often people who make it known what they are doing - and who truly do mean it - and who will actually commit suicide.

[pelicanpreacher]

You need to take the threat of bodily harm to your person more seriously. If this woman's emotional maturity is regressing then I fear she may become capable of harming you if her pain transforms to rage and she directs it at you!

 

I'm reminded of a story I think I saw on Crime TV where this straight A kid from a Tennessee highschool got involved with a high school cheerleaderl he worked at a restaurant with, fell deeply in love, then got dumped when she went back to her jock boyfriend. He went into a deep depression, grades dropped, and contemplated suicide. Instead of taking his own life, he turned his pain outward by taking his father's hunting rifle to his highschool, waited on the jock to come out and, not only shot him once long distance from the parking lot but, also walked up to his prone body and shot him point blank. The ensuing interview taken some time later while he was incarcerated revealed him to be an emotionally immature individual whose nonchalance about the murder showed no empathy whatsoever for his victim.

 

There was another story of a grown woman who seems eerily similar to your MM's wife. In this story she married him while in college and financially supported him as he pursued both a medical degree as well as a law degree. He was a very smart guy who built a career and became wealthy and notable suing doctors for malpractice in San Francisco. Anyway, the husband had an affair, dumped his wife, and managed to also get full custody of the children when his wife spitefully dropped them off at the new home he shared with the affair partner he now married. She harrassed the new her Ex and his OW and manipulated the children throughout the separation, divorce, and life thereafter to the point the children were traumatized and her Ex had to resort to instituting financial penalties against the spousal support she received as punishment for her poor behavior. Somehow she gained access to her ex-husband's new home some time after the divorce, entered the bedroom while the Ex and his wife were asleep, and shot them both in bed. When she was interviewed some time later from her place of incarceration she demonstrated a similar emotionally regressed state of mind, nonchalance, and lack of empathy for the victims she murdered as the kid from Tennessee.

 

She has already spoken the threat so the seeds of thought are already in place. The world's a scary enough place as it is without making it more dangerous by knowlingly putting yourself in harms way!

[torranceshipman]

I think this post is really cold. The poor woman just had her life ripped apart and you're complaining about the inconvenience she's caused you by overdosing/hospitalising herself/trying to commit suicide? You've already one enough damage for this poor woman, cant you just step back and let him take care of the woman and show that hes doing so to ease the stress on his kids, without worrying about being harangued by you for being there and showing compassion? Whatever her motives, you were party to pretty much destroying her life. As a result, she must be going throughabsolute hell right now - so whether a self harming or real suicide attempt - show some freakin empathy.

[NoIDidn't]

PG, did I read your post wrong, or did you just post that she took the pills while her H (your MM) was asleep on the couch?

 

I thought that he had moved out based on your thread about the email she sent you. Is he still living in the marital home? Just trying to tie the story together for more accurate perception on the sitch.

 

But even with the holes in the story I offer this:

If this is the same woman that just sent you an email before the suicide attempt, I'd say that you are in for a world of hurt. She is obviously feeling the worst rejection having been chosen (married) but never wanted or committed to by him (all of his previous infidelities).

 

She may have attempted suicide but he already killed her. IMHO.

[silktricks]

You are well misinformed about suicide and the different thought processes that happen to each individual when contemplating suicide.

.

 

BTW, If you had bothered to actually read my post, you'd probably see that I said IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE and IN MY OPINION.

 

Since you've worked with people I'm certain you have your own opinion. Since I've attempted it, and been through quite a bit of individual and group therapy around it, I've got mine. I'm not denegrating your opinion or your work, but I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't denegrate my life as you have in this post.

[Tomcat33]

BTW, If you had bothered to actually read my post, you'd probably see that I said IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE and IN MY OPINION.

 

Since you've worked with people I'm certain you have your own opinion. Since I've attempted it, and been through quite a bit of individual and group therapy around it, I've got mine. I'm not denegrating your opinion or your work, but I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't denegrate my life as you have in this post.

 

 

how did I denegrate your life!?!?!

 

Suicide is a very delicate subject that should not be taken lightly. I did BOTHER to read your post and you made this statement:

 

I just have a really hard time believing that the idea of hurting someone else would lead to actual suicide...

 

...I also don't think that someone should automatically do what a suicide threatening person wants, as everyone does have their own choices to make in life - including when to check out.

 

 

and I said you are misinformed about suicide because while you may be of that opinion that you should not cater to what a person threatening suicide wants, it is actually not the best advice to give someone who is dealing with a person threatening to commit suicide.

 

When a person reaches out like that the last thing you should do is shut them down or make them feel like they are not being serious. You should always listen to them, give them the attention and support they need and assure them that you ARE there for them.

 

I am not trying to take anything away from your life, I am simply educating you since you seem to have limited experience on this, and I happen to have some experience on it.

[NoIDidn't]

Wow. Just...>WOW

 

TC I am not trying to start an argument with you but this was one of those times where you could have just said "sorry" and went on.

 

Whether or not you agree that you 'denigrated' her life, she felt attacked by you. And you just continued on that attack.

 

Suicide is a serious thing. I have not considered it myself, but I can't imagine how one that actually attempted it and failed feels and then to be told that they are ignorant about the subject. Her very life was once on the line.

 

Just.......wow.

[Nevermind]

How is that "just wow"?

 

It's a very serious subject. They are not just disagreeing about what kind of cream cheese is the best or what flower is the prettiest. It's an important issue and when you can't be bothered to face a normal, polite discussion about it on the internet, then what's the point?

[NoIDidn't]

How is that "just wow"?

 

It's a very serious subject. They are not just disagreeing about what kind of cream cheese is the best or what flower is the prettiest. It's an important issue and when you can't be bothered to face a normal, polite discussion about it on the internet, then what's the point?

 

I'm sorry. But what are you talking about? I am "shocked" (the 'just wow') that another poster is being so calloused about another poster's sensibilities. I don't understand the point of your post that seems in response to mine. Care to elaborate?

[Nevermind]

 

TC I am not trying to start an argument with you but this was one of those times where you could have just said "sorry" and went on.

 

Whether or not you agree that you 'denigrated' her life, she felt attacked by you. And you just continued on that attack.

I don't see the attack. And I don't see the reason to just say "sorry" and move on. Why you are appalled by this is beyond me. They both have experience, and they both have an opinion. If the topic was a lighter one, then a person might just say "sorry, whatever" but this isn't light. Just because somebody feels attacked doesn't mean that they are right.

 

I have not considered it myself, but I can't imagine how one that actually attempted it and failed feels and then to be told that they are ignorant about the subject.

How about hearing that it was just an attempt to get attention?

 

Edit: silk said that every person that attempts suicide should get help, so we are on the same page. But she also made claims that sounded universally true about the state of mind of a person who wants to kill herself. She is one person and as such cannot make assumptions about everybody else's feelings. Neither can tomcat.

[NoIDidn't]

 

Edit: silk said that every person that attempts suicide should get help, so we are on the same page. But she also made claims that sounded universally true about the state of mind of a person who wants to kill herself. She is one person and as such cannot make assumptions about everybody else's feelings. Neither can tomcat.

 

So, why then doesn't silk deserve an apology if for nothing else than the fact that she felt diminished?

 

That's all I was saying. It may not have been universally true. She still felt attacked. That's all I'm saying. I am well aware of the seriousness of the topic. Do you have PM yet?

[silktricks]

Suicide is a very delicate subject that should not be taken lightly. I did BOTHER to read your post and you made this statement:

If you are going to quote me, let's get the whole thing, OK?

 

Someone who threatens suicide as a manipulating tool is about as low as one can get.

 

But, that said, the feelings of utter despair that follow betrayal are not to be taken lightly. I also contemplated suicide and in fact attempted it twice. My husband for a period of time did not leave me alone at all and quickly got me into counseling. And no, I was not manipulating him. The ONLY reason my attempts were unsuccessful was because he suspected what was going on and intervened soon enough.

 

Yes, it is a permanent solution for a temporary problem. At the time the problem does not feel temporary. I don't know if anyone would ever actually commit suicide to hurt someone else - attempt it maybe - but then you're back into manipulation.

 

Speaking only from my own experience, the very real depression that leads to suicide has NOTHING to do with "when I'm dead they'll be sorry". It has to do with "I cannot live in this pain for another second and would rather be dead. Death will end it." And at the time it seems that ONLY death will end it.

 

I just have a really hard time believing that the idea of hurting someone else would lead to actual suicide (as opposed to the threatened/fake attempt that is the manipulation DNR and PGL were talking about). But I do think that any threat should be taken seriously - by mental health professionals at the very least.

 

I also don't think that someone should automatically do what a suicide threatening person wants, as everyone does have their own choices to make in life - including when to check out.

 

This is not the same as the decision to suicide. You feel utterly calm. No hysteria, no "if you don't do this I'm going to kill myself"... that's just plain manipulation (as you said). If you've actually made the decision you don't feel hysterical you feel calm and somewhat settled. It's also not usually an "attempt". Usually - unless someone figures out what you are doing - it's successful.

 

Exactly, which is why the mention of suicide should immediately be taken seriously. Help is required.

 

Ummm - this really isn't true. There are often people who make it known what they are doing - and who truly do mean it - and who will actually commit suicide.

 

Btw, yes I did make a statement that could be construed as being universal. I made the assumption that people who were reading this thread would realize that I was speaking of my own state of mind at the time.

[silktricks]

How about hearing that it was just an attempt to get attention?

.

 

What on earth are you talking about?

[Nevermind]

This is not the same as the decision to suicide. You feel utterly calm. No hysteria, no "if you don't do this I'm going to kill myself"... that's just plain manipulation (as you said). If you've actually made the decision you don't feel hysterical you feel calm and somewhat settled. It's also not usually an "attempt". Usually - unless someone figures out what you are doing - it's successful.

 

You have since stated that every announcement should be taken seriously, so I did not write my comment to offend you, as we are on the same page about this.