TrustInYourself Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Communication is a double edged sword. To master communication, you are going to have to master the art of listening. Right now you are trying to communicate your feelings, your needs, your values, your beliefs, your love. Whats the problem here? It centers on you. It railroads your wifes feelings and thoughts on that matter and pushes her into a defensive stance. Shes going to fight you if you give her reasons to fight you. Do not validate her thoughts and feelings that you dont care or understand her. The trick is to agree. She asks for a separation, you tell her, yeah, maybe you are right. She asks you to kiss her ass, you say, hmm okay sure I like your ass. She asks you to jump off a bridge, you say, hmm, I will have to think about it, but thank you for the advice. Disarm her anger and recognize her feelings. Dont sidestep them and prioritize your own feelings and needs. Communication isnt really that easy. Its artform. Link to post Share on other sites
SingleDad Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 TIY- well said - to master the art of communication, you have to learn to listen. Listening is more than hearing- it is hearing what was said yes, but it is also understanding the other person's emotions, empathizing with them, putting yourself in their shoes and their feelings and emotions. It you are thinking about the next thing you are going to say then your are not listening.... I was never really a good listener during my marriage - biggest reason why STBXW is ending it... Unless I can now change myself and really listen to her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Maladjusted Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Well, I think it is nearly officially over. Yesterday I had sent her father an email telling him I was sorry I talked to members of his family about our marital problems and asking for his help and guidance. It backfired. My wife blasted me for sending the letter. My wife told her sister that she doesn't need a nice, sweet, funny guy to raise a family with, to be in love with, to feel secure with, blah blah blah. Told her she rushed into being married when she should have taken more time for herself, and she doesn't think she was ever really in love with me. I'm done doing anything for her. She makes me ill. Link to post Share on other sites
jon01 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Mal - She will be done when she leaves and files for divorce... if you keep asking her it will be a self fulfilling prophasy.. Stop asking - stop drilling - no more questions about her feelings or her decision - in fact no more questions at all. she sees it as you "questioning her" Take it one day at a time - have patience and perseverence. Just be nice to her, laid back, try to enjoy her being around, help when she wants help... do what she wants. It will take months for her feelings to change... to turn her in your direction, she needs to simply enjoy being with you. That's it - that's all... I totally agree. As much as you fight it internally, do what you can to follow SD's advice. At least your wife is still living with you. You have to prolong that, because if she ever moves out then it's finished, and I mean finished as in she will never come back. On a side note, your wife sounds like she is losing it. It wouldn't surprise me if she was having an affair. But if you really love her, don't focus on that and just do as SD says above. That's basically your only hope. Link to post Share on other sites
TrustInYourself Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 You sound raw from the emotions. Take some time and just relax. Step away from all the drama. You are on the edge of making a decision that impacts your child, just as much as it impacts you and your wife. Take care. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Maladjusted Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 I saw another two text messages to her manager last night from her personal cell phone. I think he is giving her advice more than anything else but I'd appreciate it if the guy would stay out of our business. I won't say anything about it to her though. Man how did this get so bad so fast? I wish I could step outside of everything going on but I can't seem to be able to. So now I just don't say anything to her right? Just agree with whatever she says? Do I leave the house and leave her alone? Link to post Share on other sites
SingleDad Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Mal - don't think about where her advice is coming from. It is irrelevant. You are seeking advice from this forum - do you think W would be happy if you were just doing what strangers were telling you to do ? Focus on yourself and doing subtle nice things for W - that is it. p.s. I had contacted her family after she filed for the D - that backfired on me as well - she couldnt' get enough screaming at me. Though her father told me she has "psychological issues" from her mother's divorces, and commended me for trying to fight to save the marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
TrustInYourself Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I saw another two text messages to her manager last night from her personal cell phone. I think he is giving her advice more than anything else but I'd appreciate it if the guy would stay out of our business. I won't say anything about it to her though. Man how did this get so bad so fast? I wish I could step outside of everything going on but I can't seem to be able to. So now I just don't say anything to her right? Just agree with whatever she says? Do I leave the house and leave her alone? Who knows. Only you know. I can relate to the way you feel. She wants to do whatever the hell she pleases. Then that triggers the anger, our anger. It also fires our desperation to communicate and reach out for them. It is only going to back fire. Why? Because we are human. We are bound to communicate only one thing in our moment of weakness. Unattractive, hateful, anger, regret, neediness, desperation, doubt. You have to be careful about leaving the house, in relation to abandonment and legal custody in the future. Resist negative contact or communication at all costs. Thats going to just feed the fire of your anger. In the end, its up to you to control the emotions. I am fighting some right now and its not pleasant when your mind wanders. I just have to focus my mind elsewhere. Focus on the importance of other aspects of my life. Focus on myself and making myself happy. Thats where I need to have my mind. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Maladjusted Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 I just don't know how to act. I know I will be polite, but I guess I just have to sit back and take whatever is coming as peacefully as possible. If she seems in a foul mood (which is likely to happen) I will tell her I am going out for a bit. I wish I could take my mind off of all this but I am filled with regret. I know deep down this is not the woman I married and she is blaming me for things that really aren't my fault. I'll share an email she sent me earlier [sIZE=2]Why now ___? Why now? Why now that I have thrown the towel and have given up? Why do this to me now? Why try so hard now? Why do everything right now? I am so freaking frustrated because I'd like to feel happy about all of this, about your efforts, not only with me, but with my family, but I am not happy because those efforts should have been made from the beginning, from the moment you said I do, from the moment you found out I was pregnant, from the moment your son was born. I have made every effort to be a part of your family, your siblings, your parents. I have tried with your family. You never really did. The tables have drastically been turned now that I want to separate. Now I'm trying to avoid your family, and you are all over mine. I don't get this. Don't write me back. I am in my office crying and the last thing I need is for everyone to question what's going on. [/sIZE] Link to post Share on other sites
SingleDad Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Mal - Holy S**t - you are married to my wife !!!! exact same words she said to me - I mean exactly !!! I think men are innately clueless to a woman's emotions until they freek out about it and we wake up to there being an issue. Men are on auto-pilot until there is a disaster and they need to put on manual override. Mars vs. Venus Do as she says - do not answer her e-mail now. But you should have a serious one-on-one conversation about it tonight. Basically that you realize now that you did not give her the attention and affection she wants, that you want to have conversations, etc. Everything she wants to hear - and everything You WILL do. Do not argue, do not disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
TrustInYourself Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I just don't know how to act. I know I will be polite, but I guess I just have to sit back and take whatever is coming as peacefully as possible. If she seems in a foul mood (which is likely to happen) I will tell her I am going out for a bit. I wish I could take my mind off of all this but I am filled with regret. I know deep down this is not the woman I married and she is blaming me for things that really aren't my fault. I'll share an email she sent me earlier [sIZE=2]Why now ___? Why now? Why now that I have thrown the towel and have given up? Why do this to me now? Why try so hard now? Why do everything right now? I am so freaking frustrated because I'd like to feel happy about all of this, about your efforts, not only with me, but with my family, but I am not happy because those efforts should have been made from the beginning, from the moment you said I do, from the moment you found out I was pregnant, from the moment your son was born. I have made every effort to be a part of your family, your siblings, your parents. I have tried with your family. You never really did. The tables have drastically been turned now that I want to separate. Now I'm trying to avoid your family, and you are all over mine. I don't get this. [/sIZE] [sIZE=2]Don't write me back. I am in my office crying and the last thing I need is for everyone to question what's going on. [/sIZE] [sIZE=2][/sIZE] Hah, the same reaction I got. Anger for my efforts. Sadness since she felt it was too late. Sometimes it is hard for us to read minds! I know the feeling, lol. However, she gave you indications of her pain and sadness during the marriage. Hence, the communication thing. Its more about listening. I had to learn that the hard way. I had to face this separation to learn that I was not being a good husband. I did not know. No one knows. You do not go to school to learn how to be married. Its just something you are supposed to know. You use things from your life and from the examples your parents taught, but you really dont know. I am big on learning and expanding my understanding of situations I do not truly understand. I read some books and I feel better equipped now when I talk to my wife. I am better equipped to react to the problems in our marriage. I am better all around. Look into some avenues for self growth, for the sake of yourself. Not your marriage, or your wife. Blah...I hate reading this ****. It sounds like I am lecturing. I have problems too, just so you know. I am not just some guy who doesnt understand. Good luck, bro. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Maladjusted Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Mal - Holy S**t - you are married to my wife !!!! exact same words she said to me - I mean exactly !!! I think men are innately clueless to a woman's emotions until they freek out about it and we wake up to there being an issue. Men are on auto-pilot until there is a disaster and they need to put on manual override. Mars vs. Venus Do as she says - do not answer her e-mail now. But you should have a serious one-on-one conversation about it tonight. Basically that you realize now that you did not give her the attention and affection she wants, that you want to have conversations, etc. Everything she wants to hear - and everything You WILL do. Do not argue, do not disagree. I answered the email before I posted this. Here is what I said: [sIZE=2]I am doing it now because I didn't understand before. This past month I have had plenty of time to do a lot of self examination and see where I have been wrong. I understand why you got to the point that you did. My efforts are truly sincere, but they mean nothing unless I prove them to you. I have already taken the steps in the right direction. My family has always loved you. They just don't show it the way that you would like them to. That doesn't mean they don't love you! If you choose to separate from me then I will accept it. All I have asked of you is that you give me the chance to prove to you that I am capable of being the strong husband to you and the strong father I know I am. I believe in our marriage and I love my family enough to do whatever it takes! I swear to you that you will not be sorry. I will hold our family together and be the rock for everyone to lean on. I sent another email shortly thereafter saying: [sIZE=2]Look, if you ever loved me, it is never too late. I know the qualities you appreciate in me. Now let me show you the other ones that I have so I can win back your confidence in me! [/sIZE][/sIZE] Link to post Share on other sites
SingleDad Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 good response - I know you will follow through. I would follow through whether or not you separate. Don't do it only when you are together... she may just as likely separate to test you when things get really terrible - continue to be there for her. I know my W has tested me in the past - though if this is a test - it is the cruelest imaginable. Link to post Share on other sites
TrustInYourself Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 You are contending with her pain and suffering and the wall she has placed between the two of you to protect her heart. That wall is not going to come down by confrontation or desperation. At this point, she wants separation and you are merely a roadblock, a obstacle, someone preventing her from achieving happiness. So what to do? Hmm? Do you continue down this path? Where you are preventing her from being happy? Where you constantly fight? Where you give her reason to seek advice from her manager? I would suggest doing the opposite. Reading your response, it looks like you are doing exactly that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Maladjusted Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 You are contending with her pain and suffering and the wall she has placed between the two of you to protect her heart. That wall is not going to come down by confrontation or desperation. At this point, she wants separation and you are merely a roadblock, a obstacle, someone preventing her from achieving happiness. So what to do? Hmm? Do you continue down this path? Where you are preventing her from being happy? Where you constantly fight? Where you give her reason to seek advice from her manager? I would suggest doing the opposite. Reading your response, it looks like you are doing exactly that. So what you are saying is say nothing further to her about this subject until she says something? Or do I suggest the seperation? Link to post Share on other sites
SingleDad Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I hope that is not what TIY is suggesting. I would never use the S word just as I would never use the D word - ever again... neither solves the problem - both words just end the relationship. If you say them, she'll use them to her advantage that you think it is the right thing to do as well. Words can be painful weapons. Stay on the path of being nice and friendly and loving if you want to save the marriage Link to post Share on other sites
Author Maladjusted Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 So what I do is not talk to her about anything that has gone on today, right? Link to post Share on other sites
TrustInYourself Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 So what you are saying is say nothing further to her about this subject until she says something? Or do I suggest the seperation? When she comes home today, be warm and pleasant. Thats it. Ignore the drama. Control the crazy emotions. Express understanding and show support for whatever she wants. Agree and listen. Do not express your thoughts and feelings on the matter. Thats for you to work out. That simple. Any questions? Link to post Share on other sites
SingleDad Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I agree completely with TIY Link to post Share on other sites
TrustInYourself Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I hope that is not what TIY is suggesting. I would never use the S word just as I would never use the D word - ever again... neither solves the problem - both words just end the relationship. If you say them, she'll use them to her advantage that you think it is the right thing to do as well. Words can be painful weapons. Stay on the path of being nice and friendly and loving if you want to save the marriage Do not suggest anything. You are listening. I did not say demand separation or divorce. Do not fear them. Just dont force anything. Be passive, loving, understanding, accepting. The more you listen and agree, the more you become on her side. The more you support her decisions, the more she will question them. Link to post Share on other sites
TrustInYourself Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 So what I do is not talk to her about anything that has gone on today, right? Mal you are asking how you approach the subject? Who normally initiates the conversation? Is it you? If its you...dont bring it up. Just remember my prior advice. Be warm and pleasant. Do not validate her feelings that separation or divorce is the answer. Eventually, shes going to talk to you anyways. Shes going to look at you when you are cool and collected and ask you whats going on. Boom. Time to show her you are there for her and your son before anyone or anything else. Link to post Share on other sites
TrustInYourself Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Oh yeah, your reflex is going to be to respond and express your thoughts and opinions and feelings. DO NOT EXPRESS YOUR FEELINGS OR THOUGHTS. What part about listening did you not understand. If she asks, tell her you have to think about things and that you appreciate her for asking. Thats how you put ice on the situation without losing your cool. Go watch Kung Fu Panda. Theres a lesson in there for all of us. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Maladjusted Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Ok so if she says today "I want to seperate" I should nod my head? I am just trying to get everything straight in my mind. Link to post Share on other sites
SingleDad Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 That is one place where I do not agree about going with every thing she says. I would not agree to divorce or separate. I would say instead - "I truly do not want that... I love you very much... and I want to work things out... but if you feel that is the only way we can work things out, I can't stop you" Link to post Share on other sites
SingleDad Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 "and I will do everything I can to help us through this" Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts