Son's Girlfriend and He Are Destroying Our Family

[suzyq83]

I hope he does come back to me someday, to our family, I do know that sometimes ppl have to hit rock bottom before they realize what they are doing and pick themselves up. Addictions are terrible things. I just don't know why he was so vulnerable. He went into adulthood knowing all about alcoholism and what it does to ppl. And went and got into it anyway. Therapist said even tho he knew, it is not that simple and that it is genetics stacked against him -- that is the "why" of why he is gunning for alcohol and easily addicted.

 

It'd be great if someday, he gets a gf who isn't into alcohol. And who isn't into believing he has a "bad mother" and all of that happy bs. She has tried to re-mother him and so has her mother. Her Mom is a nice lady but on prozac and drinks a beer now and then as well. What is unhealthy about her (aside from mixing prozac with alcohol which can be fatal) is that she gets off on doing things like moving my son in to his first apt. She admits that she "usurped my position." Yes, she surely did. But she seems to LIKE making big differences in my boy's life too. It all SEEMS nice but they really just played Failure To Launch with my son, as tho something was "wrong" with him and with me, for his having still been at home when they found him. I helped my son get into a 4 year college like his older brother. My younger son didn't like college and left it and went to a PT college instead and got into working the career ladder. And here is this woman's daughter, just graduated from college in May, still living at her parent's house, same as my son was at her age! And something was "wrong" with me for that, in their eyes. My son was attending PT college and working and saving money, had just bought his first really nice car, was paying his bills, etc. Had had a gf who was in college who came home some on weekends and who he went to stay with on weekends. I would say he was doing OK back then, not "behind" or not "not growing". I was made out to seem to him, by this girl and her parents, as tho I "held him back" -- so they moved him out, behind my back. My son came home drunk and announced he was moving. He already had the apt lined up and full of furniture his gf and her parents had helped him to get and move, And it all has gone down hill from there.

 

I have tried very hard to be nice to these parents. They are nice ppl but don't see the consequences of what they do, before they do things, just like their daughter. Or they do see the consequences and pretend not to. It is hard to know. They are all intelligent ppl but excuse everything away with "it's his choice. we can't do anything because he has free will." I have told them, listen, this is all really about so my son can drink. They have the belief system that if ppl drink only a few each day, they can't have a problem because they are not acting loaded." I have told them that with someone at risk for alcoholism, some alcohol each day IS really dangerous AND a sign of a problem. They just are not very educated about alcohol. And have religious beliefs that excuse anything. So it is hard, if not impossible, to make any dent in it that way. The Mom's father is an active alcoholic, and she complains about his drinking and wishes her mother would leave him, yet at the same time, she does not seem to realize that they are contributing to my son developing a drinking problem. Alcohol IS changing him and also has caused problems in his life already in the past year and a half. The Mom, as a Mom, her heart does care about my son's and my relationship, I do know that she does. However, she has a mother in law, who never has liked her, and I am sorry to say but I think this girl, unconsciously has the same thing about her, where she perhaps believes mothers of bfs are someone she is to not get along with. It is all a divide and conquer game, that the girl does and she is VERY shrewd at it. And so you wonder where in hell she learned it, so young, seriously. But also from the start, I could tell she was playing a lot of headgames, so altho she is smart, she is also easy to see through her manipulations, if you have your wits about you. I don't think the parents are fully aware of their daughter's nasty behavior, I don't think they are fully aware of how manipulative their daughter is either, or how possessive she is about bfs either, which, if I were her parent would raise a red flag for me -- I have told them some of it, not all. It is hard for parents to hear that their daughter is being awful, can only talk about it for so long.

 

At any rate, they are ppl who have put it on my son "are you genuine about our daughter?" and my son has had to prove that he is. That is sad. The are ppl who expect that when someone is number one in someone's life that son should part from mother and love girl more than all others in life. I know some of that happens, but not to this extent. I don't need to be the most important female in my son's life, but I am his mother. The gf is the most unhealthy girl I have ever met in her need to be more important than anybody and anything. The therapist agreed. She is not healthy that way. I don't know why or where she got it from. She is a spoiled and only daughter, has one older brother. They are ppl who believe that boys become just friends with their mothers and that boys are really closest to their dads. MY boys' Dad wasn't around a lot at various times in their lives. Now they tell my son he is just like his dad and that he cannot beat genetics, their words, when in reality genetics have no bearing at all on character or behavior and they only met the boys' dad for 2 hours in Feb. Since then my son is just like his father, in their eyes and that is what they tell my son. My boys' dad has always had a problem with alcohol and now my son is "just like dad" it appears. I tell ya this is the screwiest bunch of ppl I have ever met in my life in what they have influenced my son into believing. They are ppl who believe that relationships are everything (couples) and that I did my kids a disservice by not remarrying. That I could have provided more financially if i had remarried. Well, I worked jobs and pulled in a 2 parent income for many many years. Remarrying for financial is not a good reason to marry. But it all has made my son look at me differently unflorunately. And I am thought of as poor because I drive an older car (thought of as not earning much when I do earn a lot). Based on judgment of where I work, they have no idea of what I do there.

I always will drive used cars, I like used cars and I don't care about status and all of that. I have owned new cars and I never buy new any more. I guess it is a byproduct of having raised 2 kids on my own, esp. when they started needing cars and esp when college started for my oldest son -- I bought used cars, but I really don't judge ppl by what they drive and don't care about stuff like that. Whereas their daughter bought a used volvo and tells everyone it was a $40,000 car- things like that are important to them and so they like my son who earns $60K per year and they like his car. It is just all screwy. But has some about "appearances" and "status" in all of it. They are just shopping for someone to provide for their daughter. My son is seduced by all of it that they see him as "tremendously successful" and my son has done a really good job in career -- but you know, it is all just very screwed up not only by alcohol but by his gf's family's belief systems as well as compared to our family's belief system. We come from good stock. One of my brothers is globally known for his work and another brother is nationally recognized as the person to go through for answers in specific science areas -- we are all educated and smart. We are all, to some degree, altruistic and come from family that always has cared about doing good in the world. My mother was from wealth, my father was not. My father did well in life by becoming educated in college and taking off into business world, eventually creating his own business. Both my parents were college educated. We all got our Mom's work ethic from her father too, and it is good. I have been judged very heavily because I am a single mom, by these folks and because I drive a used car and because the place I live is not a house but an apt. but one I have enjoyed and one I have not intended to live in forever, have always wanted to move back to warmer. Been judged for working in a building that is not like a law office like her mom works in as a secretary yet they have no idea at all of all that I handle and am paid. It has just been a movie. My son has gotten a lot of sympathy or attention somehow thru all of whatever he tells them or lets thm believe or by whatever his gf embroiders to him and convinces him of, about me. They are just in the dark, about our family and what our family is really like. I am easy to mess with because I don't have a husband, I guess. They seem to value women with husbands more than anything and couples. I think it is kind of silly, except for the harm it has done. My son is going to have to find out how it really feels to be with this girl 24/7 for months and months and months on end. He is a handsome kid, and has a high libido so I am hoping eventually he gets attracted to other women. Lord knows, if he and they keep him getting sick with alcohol, it may end up in a marriage, or a pregnancy. I hope not. But he is an adult now and has to figure it all out. Sorry to write so much. It is only his 2nd serious relationship. And a rebound relationship. He did not want to go out with this girl and she manipulated him into friendship and then into sex, friends with benefits. Now they are "perfect for eachother". I think alcohol will have to be what he figures out before anything else in life tho. He sure did not go into his own life upon his moving away from home. He went into their life for him. And that is what he totally missing even tho I have told him. To find his OWN life. And I hope so much, that he does. Obviously alcohol use weakened him.

[Mary3]

It appears your son might have an addictive personality ( perhaps your therapist knows best ) But in that ( if he does ) he is going to find addictions or in this case they find him...He also has ( as you know ) a genetic gene of alcholism . They say with this gene these kids can go astray in the right conditions.

 

He may well know about addiction risk but he has chosen to overlook it and take the poison ( alcohol ). Its in his bloodstream and it would take ( in his case ) some recovery program if you think he has a real problem. If he is lightly drinking it still poses a risk that one becomes two and two becomes four drinks. My ex stopped drinking 100 times and when he begged to have just one , well that one turned into two..and so on...

 

It would be great if he could get a good gf But he may have some self esteem issues and thinks he does not deserve better ? Its hard to say. He sounds talented, handsome, successful. Well alot of women go for that .

 

You can be PROUD of what you accomplished as a Mom. The thing is : You did your work and now he is flying out of the nest... He can go in any direction. Just know that when they put blame on you , they are blaming themselves. Take a good look at what you said about the Mom and the Father of the gf.

 

They could have *new age* thinking. They may have all attended seminars and thats why they say some of the things they do. They could all be brainwashed and perhaps got your son involved with whatever thing they are into right now.

 

You are RIGHT . A Mom should be held in the highest regard. Its a well earned title. You did nothing wrong. Just know you did your best

 

He may be feeding off their praise ; Successful , nice car. He is enjoying the way they feel about him. If thats the biggest reason to ignore you because of brainwashing and praising then you do indeed have your hands full.

 

Keep posting

[suzyq83]

Hi Mary, it is so helpful emotionally, to be able to write here, for me. Thank you for everything, Mary and all of you.

 

I do think my son needs a treatment program. There isn't a doubt in my mind about that at all. But he will have to realize he needs one, obviously. Yes, I think he may have addictive personality -- or that alcohol makes him that way. When he was younger nothing ever appeared to be addictive for him, except perhaps basketball.

 

I think he does have low self esteem issues, certainly. I think they are due to Dad not being around much, my boy does not know his own worth, due to lack of that needed validation -- (which is available NOW to him, his father has changed and realizes also the severity of my son's downhill slide.) Seems in a way to all be a cry for help. My ex-husband told me tonight that my son mentioned perhaps he would go see his Dad in the fall. I am very glad to hear that, because his gf had him saying things like "where the hell was HE all your life" about his Dad. I believe the core of my son's problems are to do with needing to find out his Dad loves him and to heal and spend much-needed and much over due time with his Dad. I believe my son has a "blank spot" about his Dad -- and has gone to this family to "fill" it. But that the only thing that will ever fill it is his real Dad and his Dad's family. I think my son could go thru his entire life trying to fill it with other families and alcohol and sex and lord knows what else, if he doesn't go learn more about his Dad. My son has distorted ideas of his father from not seeing him much in his life -- some of those ideas (pictures) he is acting out now on some level. Such as he knew his Dad's mother had said that his Dad was hard to talk to even on a good day. Now my son is acting that way, with me. He knows his Dad drank. Now my son drinks. He also knew these were things I did not approve of in his Dad. He knew that other adults thought his Dad was always full of some BS and now my son is full of BS and dishonest at times. He knew that other adults felt his Dad always had a chip on his shoulder. My son now has a chip on his shoulder (resentment) toward me.

 

So, it is hard to know what anything is. I have just been aware of the similarities it appears my son is emulating. My ex husband is a good man today -- he isn't drunk or drinking any more. I don't know how he was so "gone" from the boys' lives and lives with it, but I know it did harm, for my younger son, esp. Not to "blame" -- I am just saying I know that it impacted my kid.

 

When I was younger, I didn't have a clue about alcohol or what it could do to ppl. I didn't make the best decision in marrying someone who drank so much. Back then I thought it was just like a lot of ppl our age were having beers often, didn't seem anything to worry about. But it was. Within 2 years I was bored to tears in my marriage, because my husband was always drinking and talking until I thought I would drop dead from listening. I didn't stay married long. And never really regretted divorcing. Except for now, for my younger son's obvious difficulties. But had I stayed married it would have not been a good life. It would have been with a drunk father who was argumentative and loud all the time, back then. When I had the kids my priorties changed, i became a lot more responsible, as moms do. And my husband didn't become more responsible. I don't think he coped well with having our first born even tho he loves him, he never knew what to do with babies, was uncomfortable with them. Even when they were and 5 and 6 and 10 and 11 he was uncomfortable about what to do with kids. I would tell him, just toss the boys a baseball, and have some fun with them! Take them swimming. He was just like inept as a father. His own father had not been present much of his life. When we broke up I asked him to promise to not ever be absent like his Dad had been for him. He promised he wouldn't. But he was. To this day my ex husband still has difficulty being close to his own father. I hope he resolves it in his Dad's lifetime and I hope my youngest resolves his Dad issues in his Dad's lifetime. I think it is VERY important for my youngest son's sake. I don't know why it impacted my younger son more, but the therapist said it is because he was younger. I think my son internalized his Dad as a "bad" guy during a child support battle when my youngest was 16, and has kind of acted out being a "bad" guy as he is trying to grow into a man. Unconsciously, trying to be close to his father or how he imagines his father to be. I have told my son months ago, after ther father visited in Feb first time in 8 years, GO SEE YOUR FATHER. He is the only one who can help you to heal and you need to bond with him and cry and be hugged by him and tell him how angry and hurt you have felt, and go do it because your Dad is big enough to handle it and would help you with it, and he is there for you now, so GO SEE YOUR DAD. I have not encouraged my son to be angry, my son just IS angry. I can understand it, trying to come to terms into adulthood with it all -- here my son makes more money than his Dad and started wondering, where was he? Why couldn't he come? Why didn't he want to pay child support. Money is not that hard to make, etc. Lots of big questions started coming as my son began to work with very adult older men. Then he met his gf got into alcohol and now his anger that was started to surface and his pain, is all stuffed by alcohol and disfigured and coming out in bizarre ways, because he is drinking. He DIDN't Cope with the stuff that was coming up for him, he self medicated instead. IMO. And has gone downhill since then. Morally. Spiritually. Self Esteem-wise, etc.

 

I am bummed to hear from the boys' Dad tonite that my son said he would bring his gf when he goes to see his Dad because his gf puts her takes on everyone and interprets them and then teaches my son who anyone is according to her, and my son believes it, I have NO idea why, he believes this girl to be "smarter" than he is or why he believes she knows even anything. But she is a control freak. I wish my son would go alone to see his Dad and get much needed alone time with him, which really can't happen when his glued to the hip gf is with him.

 

But, I can be glad my son is considering going to spend time with his Dad, one way or another. I am glad about that. If he goes. It is a step in a better direction than wallowing in his stuff and drinking over his stuff.

 

Maybe her parents are "new age" or something, that is a good insight. I just know it is weird and not like anyone I have ever met in religious beliefs.

 

I really have been a good Mom -- and I have LOVED my boys heart and soul, they have always been miracles in my life. This past year and a half has been simply TERRIBLE and life changing, shocking. I always had been proud of how well I raised them, until this past year and a half, having been so undermined, as a mom and as a parent. By his gf, her family and my own son. I feel like I have been living in a Jerry Springer show. Very depressing.

 

Yes, I guess they can go in any direction once out of the nest. I just hope my son learns to manage himself, because I always thought he would keep going in positive direction instead of taking a left.... like this past year and a half. Alcohol blocks all emotional growth. Stunts ppl. If they start drinking at 17 and drink for years, they remain 17 emotionally. My son knows all this, but is doing it any way. He is definitley too easily influenced. I am hoping that once he receives more solid validation from his father in person, that he will become less vulnerable in that way, where he is too easily influenced and not a strong sense of self which he always had. I think he needs his Dad. And I hope he finds his answers with his Dad, I think he needs to and that until he does he will always be confused and easily manipulated by others until he gets that blank spot more shored up. I think it is also a self concept blank spot, from not having his Dad's validation of him, is why his gf and her mother esp. can so easily morph my son all around. If they say he is green, he would become really green for them, if they say he is not a phone guy, then he becomes really not a phone guy, someone who never talks on the phone, etc. It is like letting ppl outside of you define you, and it should be the other way around. So, I think he needs his Dad, to help my son know more of a Dad's love to help solidify that.

 

Have to get some sleep.

Thank you again, for your words and thoughts.

[Mary3]

I am very glad you find help here. If any of us LoveShackers have helped you , then we feel good about that. I have been coming here for about 5 years . I like to read and learn alot about myself , other people and any questions I have I can post here.

 

Usually someone in addiction knows they need help but the addiction pulls them , doing disasterous things to oneself and the family. He will reach his rock bottom and he will get help. Let him know you are always there for him. He will remember Mom never let him down , loved him , stood by him .

 

Your son's father was not around for some time and now he is getting back into your sons life. Somewhere in there you son finds forgiveness and wants a relationship with his Dad.

 

I believe the gf is malicious and cruel. Adding fuel to the fire where she has NO business . She was not there at that time. She is feeding your son a bunch of BS .She seems to feed off his dislike for his father and you. Not that he dislikes you but in her mind he does.

 

You understand you cannot blame the father for all your son is doing. ??

Whether thats drugs or alcohol. Your son MUST not blame but heal and to say Dad caused this and Dad caused that , we know that his maturity level must rise .

 

We all know of instances where kids had less than perfect lives and they grew up and rose above all that . Some succumb to it all and continue their entire lives blaming others. Blaming other people is part of immaturity. Your son is trying to grow up but he has a hateful spiteful gf slowing down the progess.

 

I did what you did , I married someone who drank alot. He progressed more into the marraige. I had to leave after 10+ years.

 

Disfunctionality does run down into the generations. If your son's dad's father and him did not talk this runs down into present day. Its a cycle . I think it takes some counseling to pinpoint the true causes of DF.

 

You know that we have traits of our parents right ? Some we might not be proud of , some we fight to never have but your son is a culmination of you both. In all the positive ways and maybe a few negative. He only has what he knows. Unfortunately he came across this gf and she is planting alot of garbage in his mind.

 

I think it is absolutely not a good idea for the hatemonger gf to go with your son to see his Dad. I think he will be confused. But then he wants her to go I would not be surprised at what she does or says.

[suzyq83]

I saw my son today, asked him if he thinks he has an addiction, he said no, but there was something unsure in there, or maybe it is just me. At this point, it is all hard to tell. He said he doesn't drink as much as I think he does. I said that's good, and I will make a pact right now to not mention alcohol again. That made him happy. It is going to be his to find out, if he is alcoholically in trouble or not, on his own. It has been pushing him away, to try to talk about it with him. His brother is coming this week. He asked me when. I said I did not know yet. I said we would like to spend time with him. And he said to call about when his brother is coming and we would.

 

That seemed all positive. And then tonight, my older son called to let me know he would not be here until tomorrow and named a time. He and I have already agreed we are keeping this family, in other words, when he comes, my older son will not go cater to my younger son's desire to completely bypass me, ie. we both feel this is family and that we should hold true on that and hold the standard for family time all together. Otherwise my younger son gets all the goodies of everything he wants which is unhealthy to bypass me completely. and mistreating me, since he has been involved with this gf.

 

Alot of the wide berth around me is his gf's thinking. This I know more than ever tonite. Because I called my younger son, to tell him about older brother's plans, and he did not answer his ph. I texted him that I was trying to get in touch about his brother's visit. No response. Later, I finally went over to his apt because it is a short window, a tomorrow nite visit and I am not into waiting 3 days to get thru to him about the visit which I well know would happen. I wnted to tell him the time his brother was due and just line up when he could get together with us and that was all I went there to do. When I went there he was there and his gf and her father. I was surprised her father goes over to his apt but was nice to him. I have talked with the father before, and THOUGHT he was a nice guy but as mentioned earlier, have not trusted how they have helped my son into alcohol in the first place, altho my son would have found it somewhere on his own, these ppl did not do him any favors, plus as I mentioned earlier I have not trusted or been pleased that they have an interest in my son's income and speak about it.

 

Well somehow this conversation got into my younger son being kind of snotty for their benefit and I asked if that could be put aside, that I was just trying to communicate time about his brother's visit and asked him what time he got out of work tomorrow. He answered and somehow his gf got into it, spewing crap at me about how I always this and that and everything under the sun. I told her, listen, alot of the problem all year and a half long is that you think things of me and believe them yet you won't come to meet our family at all and you have no idea that the things you say are not true. She said oh yes they are, I said no, they are not. She said I turn everything around (she is someone who truly turns things around) and I said no, I am not like that at all -- she tried to argue that I was, I told her it is real easy to just think something and say something but it isn't true and no one in our family is like that. If you met our family you would realize that for yourself. ANd she stood up and started yelling, and I was trying to answer her accusations, I ended up telling her listen I handle thousands of dollars every day and I AM an honest person, I have been honest with you the whole way through. What happens here is my son tells you something and you both feed on it, and that is all that has happened all along. And you have all these ideas of me which are your own creation not based in fact at all and the conflict has, a lot, been with YOU, and the therapist said a year ago that you should come to therapy with us when we were going because you have all of these ideas of me which are not true, and which do not get resolved because you won't get to KNOW me and you won't TALK with me and so nothing can improve with that. (and that IS intentional, too). SHe hurled out more stuff and I told her what she was saying just really isn't true and she looked to her father and asked him if he was going to tell (me) how (I) turn things around? And he said he was staying out of it. And I asked her, are you saying that your Dad says I turn things around? And she went off on me and I told her listen, all that has gone on this year is some desire to rip a boy away from his mother and denigrate me to my son. It is all that this stuff is. I am open with you because I AM TRYING TO RESOLVE IT. And she mentioned emails I have written to BOTH my sons, and I realized my son has let her read my emails, which I was not surprised at, but also realized that HER FATHER reads my emails to my boys and has been reading them and telling my son that I ths.... and that.......and etc. In other words, the FATHER influences my son into thinking I turn things around and that I have not been a parent who let my kid "grow" and I cited my family's take on that claim of theirs and how no one anywhere in the whole city who knows us, thinks I did not let my son "grow up" -- this is the crap I have heard all year. My son likes this man, he believes he is a smart man and has fallen into believing him which is half of WHY all this crap has been happening. SO I asked him, you have been reading my emails to my sons?? And telling my son that I do things like turn things around??? And I was very calm, and he flipped out and got up and started yelling at me and pointing his finger at me and stood 2 feet away from me, standing over me, I was sitting down.... and I realized this is all just intimidation and I told him to back off and stand further away and to stop yelling. And he did back up and moved away but then yelled and pointed his finger and then he left. Well, OK. He said I offended him for "bashing" his daughter. I have found I cannot be direct with these folks or it is apparently called "bashing (his daughter)". I told him, listen your daughter SAYS to me that I didn't let my son grow up, and I am not bashing her I am addressing what she SAID to me many many times. ANd if you KNEW our family, you would know it is not true! His daughter started saying she dod NOT say that to me and I said yes, you have many many times and ever since you have been involved and she said she had not and I told her listen, you TEXTED that to me in JUNE, it is what you have thought of me and said for a year and a half, and she said she did not, and I picked up my cell and said yes, I can show you if you want and she shut up. And he again said something about bashing his daughter and how is he supposed to feel and I asked what does he think I said that is "bashing" but he left. If you respond ot his daughter it is bashing. Even tho she is LYING. The gf was trying to cite emails I had sent my kids and was twisting things, I was addressing the twists and corrected her in what I had written, it was all just contrived stuff she was saying out of what I had written..... this girl is absolutely poison. She also said she and my son are going to get it so that I am kicked out of my son's workplace if I ever go there. I told her I am a customer, first and go right ahead. I answered that because they are all about intimidation. (I will go there to pay my bill, if my son is not there and if he is there, I told her my son created it so that is the only place I can speak to him, I hardly ever go there at all. When the father took off my son got very serious, like he knew all of this had just cracked wide open, the cat was out of the bag. This 56 yr old father has been part of this crap, my son now knew I knew. And he started trying to get this gf to calm down and quit running her mouth to me. (That was new). Mainly I think he was scurrying in trying to figure out damage control with the father. Part of this has happened because my son and his gf lie to her father, and the father doesn't know all until I correct his daughter when she makes things out of anything as she was tonite, and part of it happens because the father dabbles in it too. My son is intimidated by the father's anger, I am not. And I told him, this is what you get when you go off into a bubble with some ppl and spin some stories and they spin them and interpret me and this is what happens, a toxic mess. His gf wouldn't stop running her mouth and so I left. But this, tonight finally I feel better because I finally know that the father has been all along, involved in trying to run me down to my son. And this, is about money and about my son's income and trying to get him away from his family to have a marriage mate for their daughter. Their daughter can do no wrong, I told her upon leaving she is not innocent. She smiled at me like a Paris Hilton satisfied smile. This is cat eating the mouse and she loves it. She is a sick girl. My son has been dumb but also manipulated but also has played the game, been swept in and corrupted by them, tonite I saw he realized I was not scared of the father like he is, and I think something hit him in there. I think my son started to realize the ferocity that these ppl are about -- and I hope something sank in but I am sure tonite he and his gf and father are all just feeding on it and making more poison. and I am the bad guy again.

 

I am, from this point on completely taking the high road and never saying a word to her or her father except hello if I see them, as anything I say is feed for them. I will not email my son until he is over this relationship, which I haven't done much at all any way -- I have alwaysbeen aware that his gf reads them and since what I email I now know is fed upon by his gf and her father. I have been careful to not mention his gf in emails for a long time altho I did 2 or 3 times a year ago and I also told her what I had said and felt and why and made amends at one time if it was needed, the gf criticizes ME in my emails to my son and crticizes my emails to my son to her father, trying to make it like I do this or that....ie stretches of anything I say. I still can't believe this father would be involved in trying to influence my son against me and would partake in reading my emails to my son but he undeniably has. I cannot believe my son would stoop to letting him. But he has. It is the way the girl is. SHe is all about trying to get people against me. Like she mentions things like "the ppl YOU talk to think you are like whoosh ie. awful". Fact is I don't talk to ppl about this situation much and I have been careful not to because I know SHE is that way, in the first place. So I know it is just intimidation. The thing that gets me is this young girl is so good at this stuff in how quickly she comes out with all of the lies and intimidating that I wonder where on earth she ever learned it. It had to have been done before, and her father sure must be that way as well. I think it was good for my son to see me stand up to him, because I am not at all afraid of this man, he is a shady man, and he didn't scare me one bit nor did all the tricks to try to throw me off balance, such as the gf's histrionics and standing up and yelling and his yelling etc.

 

Well, what does one do about this? Nothing. Take the high road and don't look back. Don't go to son's workplace to pay bill if he is there, for awhile. I hate being put in a position where I have to veer from my usual life and way of doing things, but, I also will not back down, in other words, I will not live my life being intimidated by these ppl. I feel like getting my father and brothers to help but don't know if I really need to. I would ask them to talk to my son. My kids' Dad is useless that way, too nervous to broach topic with our son. Sometimes I have felt it would help if someone in our family was helping with it, to help hold a standard for my younger son. I think my son, when she was saying they would get me kicked out of his workplace, realized that would be really crossing a line. He was very silent when that was being said and he didn't look happy or like he was participating in it. I could tell it was what his gf had been planning all along and conniving him into... but I could tell it was a very sobering thought for my son to really consider doing that, and that it wasn't something he wanted to do. it is when he started trying to get his gf to calm down and be quiet. This is the kind of person she is, just finangles set ups. She also told me she talks with my son's old gf and told me to never chat with her on line. I told her I hardly ever do but she is a friend of the family and she has always only cared about my son and we don't even talk about my son much, we talk about her life and about miine more than anything -- but the gf said she talks to her, and upon checking that out tonite, his old gf said she never talks to my sons gf ever and it is clear that she had texted my son and that is all and somehow my son's gf pretended tonite that she and her talk when they don't at all. The gf said this in front of her father as tho it was true. It was not. The girl tries everything with me.

 

His gf and her father are about power, control and bullying. My son, has become that way since he has been involved with them. I called the therapist and told her what I had found tonight, and I don't know how much is addiction as much as this wide berth around me has been fueled in good part by the father and daughter. The main question I guess I am left with is....why did my son fall into it.

 

Anyway, so much for that. I think my son knows now that alot is pretty clear. I told his gf and father I would be glad to give them a list of ppl who have known our family all the boys' lives who can tell them what kind of a person I am if they really need it. But I think, as awful as it is, that the father and gf are very uncomfortable that I am on to their crap and that I have been all this time. I did not get phazed by anything they were hurling out. The father got mostly uncomfortable when I started to refute his daughter's claims that I turn things around or was implying that I am dishonest, when I started to name facts that she cannot deny mean I am trusted and considered VERY honest, is when he started to lose it on me. I get the sense that he has been telling my son I am not honest, therefore, and it made him angry to have facts cited, and also facts cited about our whole family.

 

I consider that what has happened to my son is alchohol mixed in with some not OK ppl and that is that. I hope someday he tires of a gf who needs to make HIGH drama and yelling sessions, who needs to be SO hateful and snipey. I hope someday my son gets tired of that. It has always been that if I go anywhere near this "couple" my son and his gf, it is always this -- high high drama. My son then started playing some of that in his workplace. The only way to deal with it is to do nothing and when I do go there to pay my bill or my employer's bill, I will just say hi if he is there and smile and leave. My cousin told me tonite that these ppl are mean and are trying to ruin my life and told me to not back down. I at least have family support, and my younger son knows this, hopefully he won't keep going on with this the way he has any longer. But we will see. It is a pretty transparent game. And it is clear his gf is very high maintenance and very skilled at all of this to a degree. She does lie like no one I have ever met. And it is a money game. And if my son gets burnt in money, that's his problem. Not mine. I did not expect to find them there tonite, my older son couldn't make the call himself, my younger son told me to call him, I did, he blew off the phone call. I was trying to have a family get together which is rare these months due to older son's job. It is always always high drama with my younger son's gf and my son and her Dad is that way as well. You know, the man (her father) that I talked to a couple months ago, was a calm nice man. This man tonite is who he is. It is all about power AND about BS. And so is his daughter the same way. Not to make them all bad, but their whole family system is out for more than meets the eye. I have never met ppl who are about money before, IF that's what it is. I don't know what to do with them. I think it shocked them that nothing fazed me. I have been aware of all of the dynamics and msgs underneath it all that have been influencing my son. I think my son saw that what I said held up and wasn't arguable. I am sure the therapist would say they are bad for my son. This is not a family who is trying to "get along' with my son's family, at all. It has been about divide and conquer, bypass the mom who isn't high on our daughter, go ingratiate daughter with my son's father's side instead, etc. I have never met ppl like this. I hope my son wakes up. His gf left shrilly hollering "it is all (me) it is all (me)" tonight. She goes for power in what she can make SEEM true to others and to her father. But he dabbles in there too. Anyway, it is totally off the wall. All of it and not worth any time being paid to it at all.

[Mary3]

You really have your hands full with this gf and NOW her father is involved in this .

 

This girl is twisted and extremely malicious. Her father , who pretended to be nice to you before , showed his TRUE colors tonite. Why in Gods earth would they be so vial and hateful ? Sounds like the little princess daughter is worshipped by the father and sees your boy as the meal ticket. You need to be the outsider to them so they can zone in on your son.

 

Your son may very likely have an addiction. My husband used to say " I drink because I want to , I don't want to stop " When I left him , he went into alchohol treatment but ONLY because I left him. When I came back and realized I did not love him anymore and was leaving , he started drinking again to this day 11 years later , drinks everyday and will so...

 

Your son may not be drinking to the degree that you think he might. Its very hard to say because my husband hid the beer cans , denied he drank as many , never wanted to get help . I was done..

 

Its best to leave your son alone about the drinking for now. He already realizes you think he may have a problem. They REALLY must go in for treatment of their own volition .

 

I think it enraged the snippy toxic gf when you decided to come over after she likely told your son to not answer the phone , not answer the text. But your son is NOT a puppet. He will either completely succumb to these people or he will WAKE up. I think the confrontation you had was good for your son to SEE. IT shows you are STRONG , won't be intimidated , wont back down and act like a sniveling creature.

 

The father has it down pact. You ask where she got it from ? Look at HIM . I think he is a contributor to her self righteousness to interfere with a mother and son relationship.

 

Thank God for your older son who will treat you like a Mom and won't interfere with all of this.

 

I think after tonite this gf is BEYOND help. She is interpreting things , twisting things. Its highly likely she is MENTALLY ill and the father is trying to pass off anyone to his daughter. Partly mental partially conditional treatment she has nonetheless become a MESS. I think they need you out of the picture so they can bog your son down with more garbage . Get a ring on her finger quick. It would NOT surprise if the gf is conning him into marrying her. She she can gleefully tell you she is going to be your DIL.

 

WHY in the WORLD is she reading YOUR emails to your son ?? RED FLAG ! Miss controlling and her controlling NUTCASE dad are reading all your stuff. THis is wayyyyyyyyyy too much drama. I dont know how you do it. I know its for the love of your son..

 

The father and daughter are sadistic. Beyond help. I can only pray for you now that your son WAKES up soon. I would also document everything she said tonite , all texts , emails and take it a safe place. Tell someone you love and trust about all of this. Have them keep copies. Tell them this girl is nuts and you want it to be documented. While she beats you down , you will have evidence. If the son leaves her OMG you really should make sure you know what all that stuff is. She will blame you. If he ever leaves her PLEASE get a restraining order. As a matter of fact I would get one Now if she threatened you in ANY way. That way your son will see he is dealing with some sick people and you want him to know this is getting serious. His miind and the fog will clear a little that YOU are not afraid of the father and YOU want her FAR away from you.

 

I see no other recourse because she is Hell bent on ruining yours and your sons relationship.

[whichwayisup]

Jeez, this gf and her family - It's like he's joined a cult and they're all manipulating him, brainwashing him. Doesn't help that he is insecure to begin with, which I'm sure the gf knew from day one. People like that know how to rope in certain personality types.

 

Sorry that you're going through this - Just try to detach and distance yourself from them, as hard as that will be because of your son..Don't lose hope and faith - One day he WILL wake up, and when that happens, he WILL come to you.

[Mary3]

Jeez, this gf and her family - It's like he's joined a cult and they're all manipulating him, brainwashing him. Doesn't help that he is insecure to begin with, which I'm sure the gf knew from day one. People like that know how to rope in certain personality types.

 

Sorry that you're going through this - Just try to detach and distance yourself from them, as hard as that will be because of your son..Don't lose hope and faith - One day he WILL wake up, and when that happens, he WILL come to you.

 

Exactly * WhichWayisUp. The girl targeted him , got him to agree to many things , brings her DAD into the picture who also hangs out at the apartment and READS personal emails that are NOT his ..I wish the Mom could say " Son don't you think its weird that she is READING my mail to you ? It's not like I am an ex gf ( which still does not justify snooping into ones email ) but son I am your Mom." This girl does not trust you Mom and will never likely. Without trust you and her will never have a true real relationship. The definition of Relationship

 

Trust

Respect

Communication

 

You have NONE of these with her thanks to her nutty behavior. You see she is trying to erode the 3 things above with you and your son . Make him distrust you, not respect you and NOT communicate. She is cult~tizing this poor guy.

 

Geesh !

[whichwayisup]

Reminds me of when a friend of mine dated someone who didn't tell upfront about being Jehovah's Witness. By the time she found out he was one, she was so inlove with him. He manipulated her, controlled her, used her vunerability - He turned her against her family, friends, co-workers.

 

She DID wake up, thankGOD - She is now married to someone else and has 3 kids. Very happy and she looks back at that time in her life when she was messed up.

 

I hope this gives you hope! Don't lose faith.

[almost famous]

I think you might have been a little pushy to go over there, considering the situation and how you are not usually welcomed when you just show up.

You sent him a text and left a message, so he knew when his brother was coming. If he really wants to see his brother, then he would get back to you.

Other than that, I'm glad you were strong to this girlfriend's dad.

[suzyq83]

Thank you so much, for your words of wisdom everyone Has been a long week. But I have been able to detach and let things fall where they may. My son someday has to realize, and I have to keep having faith that someday he will. I do not dare to get a restraining order now against the gf becuz she would cry victim and it would only increase my son's being roped into them all more. While she seems to BEG for something like that, I will not give into it, yet. If they break up, and I detect her ANYWHERE near my life at all, I won't hesitate at all. Same goes for the father.My son has been compelled, by them, this I now understand. To be compelled is different from having "choice" or "free will" as her parents and her tout that they have "given him." I do not blame my son for being vulnerable to them, for those are tricks/manipulations that are very serious and hard even for older adults to discern. My son is a nice kid, they played him. And together with my son, they all have been playing me. Hurting me through my son, for whatever their reasons are. They are just bullies, they must perceive that is the way to get what you want in life, whatever it is, they have done it before, not necess. with a bf or their duaghter's, but in general. The apple does not fall far from the tree. The daughter is just like her Dad. I thought it was just her who was into feeding on ppl, gossiping, cutting ppl down, trying to throw her weight around, trying to bolster her low self esteem by running others down and trying to intimidate -- but her father is the same way, and yes, he did show his true colors that night. I was not surprised when it happened, there is a part of me that hasn't trusted any of them from the beginning. I do think it is about meal ticket for daughter. And/or some aspect of their religious stuff. My son, tho, is not religious, and I think in time he will tire of God talk all by itself. The other night, when his gf slipped into what I can only call really unhealthy hateful modes toward me, it was as tho my son has had to deal with this again and again, not just in regard to me, but his gf being that way at parties, perhaps or with groups of friends. I can only say that he has seen it before, seems to know when she is slipping into that, and he does not like it. He lets it happen a couple of times and then starts talking to her to get her to stop. You know, when ppl are involved with someone who has issues, they do become affected themselves by the person's issues. My son has become affected by her and by them. While I don't blame him for his vulnerability to not be able to discern better and to have been emotionally manipulated by them, it is his responsibility to not keep following her or their agenda for me, his Mom and/or agenda for our family. Her agenda for me has extended into his workplace. she is good friends with 2 of my son's co-worlers. My son is never really free from her hold. And of course, she developed these friends AFTER meeting my son. One of the ways she got to know my son better and to be around him, was by developing a friendship with one of these female co-workers who my son hung out with sometimes. She met my son and a week later told him she had just broken up with her bf and wanted to go out with my son and my son was like Stay Away - You are weird. He told me about it, said he did not want to go out with her. She kept pursuing him, he started to get manipulated by her, she started giving him boxers of all different kinds, started sending him naked pics of her -- I started to warn him, if you don't want a relationship with her, don't fall for this stuff, he rebelled and went right for her. Alot of it was sex drive, but nonetheless, from the beginning, I told him her family was "off" and they really are, so is the girl. Never have I met such a what I can only call "toxic" person. She has contaminated every corner of our existence, and my son's existence. I do worry for him, for when a break up occurs. I am sure if he breaks up with her, he will have a lot of threats made by her, to "ruin" him and humiliate him, publicly, ie his reputation, because that is this girl's whole game. And how she tries to get power over ppl. SHe is power sick. She is also hysterical. She is also just plain poisonous in her thoughts. Her thoughts must torture her, really.But they are all a reflection of her own insecurities and self hatred and self loathing, and nothing more than that. She fancies herself smarter than all other humans, and they have tricked my son into believing they know more than most humans, obv. he is not able to see clearly because he is IN it, cannot see what outsiders clearly can who are not IN the situation.

 

I am angry at my son for having fallen into it, the "feeding" problem she has, but if he is addicted to anything, I think it is to her mind and psychology, because ppl who are perpetrators, for lack of a better word, can have a very powerful hold on anybody for a good while. My son does not realize this. The girl, if she keeps up, I believe in time, will be in jail and sued someday, for the stuff she pulls, because alot of it is totally lacking in morality and in right from wrong, it is, her way of being, like a criminal mind. I am very upset of course, that my son has been learning a see what you can pull kind of mentality from her, but hope he is smart enough to not let himself get exploited and made a fool of to that extent by her. Seems he gets a kick out of the thrill, like she does, of pulling something over on others. Unfortunately.

 

She is also a Homewrecker type of person. I can well envision her moving on to destroy someone's marriages someday, when she sets her cap for some married man with money. I totally believe she will do that in her lifetime. Because the thrill she gets in "taking ppl away" from their family is what captivates her so much, and I believe, why she zeroed in on my son. Yes, ppl like that do pick up on ppl who are vulnerable to being played and do target them. It was easy for her to do -- had I had a husband here, it would not have been so easy because she only respects ppl who are "with someone" -- ie coupled, or married, ie only gives credibility to men. My son was sitting duck for her, our whole family was, for a good long while.

 

When their relationship ends, I will take action if necessary. And of course, if she becomes threatening to me any further now, or her father, I will be forced to take action. I think it is good that the father knows I realize the headgames they have pulled on my son and our family. For that reason alone, silence is the best policy. He can wonder, what I will do. Anything I say at all to my kid, will be shown to them. The impt thing is that the father knows I know who he is in character and I know who his daughter is in character, and he cannot guage me or make a prediction about what I will or will not do. And one thing I do know that he is afraid of is his daughter's name being besmirched. I have a feeling that they have run into problems in this way with their daughter before. They have moved here to this area. Have been here only a couple of years. One of the first things the father said to me was one night when I asked him where my son and his daughter were, back when my son was living at home, and it was like 3 in the morning. And I told him this is not going to happen, where my son is out til 3 or 4am because there are others at home who need to get up at 5:30 for work. And her father's response to that was "don't make my daughter the problem." It was a weird response to what I was saying. I was saying hey, this is all too late and is affecting others -- where are they, do you know? So, I do have the feeling that someone felt their daughter was "a problem" before in the town they came from. But who knows?

 

Thank you all again, so much, for listening. It has been quite a ride.

 

I feel strengthened by my older son's having been here, and he will be here again today. It is funny how you don't realize how stuff wears you down. My feelings of our good family have suffered greatly thru this, with my older son being not nearby so much all last year living 4 hours away, and my dealing with this alone with my younger son -- my older son being around has helped me to feel again that our family is still intact. Because I have been bullied so much, by them, it has been like refreshing to go places with at least one of my sons and to enjoy something "normal" for me and for our family rather than all of that that I have endured with my younger son's gf's ideas of what to do with me.

 

I think alcohol weakened my younger son, definitely, and made him unable to discern. Whether or not it is a prob for him, he will have to figure out as time goes on.

 

After the other night, I now know exactly where my younger son got his behaviors toward me from. It is how his gf and her Dad are, to ppl. Let alone to me. I have seen the girl a few times bark at waitresses, and always wondered why she was like that to waitresses. Now I know, it is their way of trying to be more impt than others and she gets that from her parents. I think the Mom is on prozac because she lives in all of it, and I am sure that the father is truly no gem at home, either.

[Mary3]

I think the daughter is Bi Polar . This might explain her erratic moods . Up and down , up and down. She sounds also narcisstic. I am not a psych here. Please go to psychology.com and look up the different human behaviors. Lock in on the one that MOST fits her. She may fit into a few from what I see . She might also be Sociopath. Causes destruction and feels no empathy towards anyone ,. quite disturbing if true...

 

I disagree that filing a RO on the daughter would be considered as fuel to the fire. It would make the whack job father and the evil daughter he spawned both WAKE UP that you are not a force to be reckoned with. It sends a message to the son that " Wow my mom went to court about these people, what is wrong with them ? What is wrong with me ? Why cant I get away from this cult frenzy brainwashing manipulation ? YOU are putting REALITY in his BRAIN. He needs SOMETHING to wake him up before they lead him to the lamb slaughter .

 

He has been be~dazzled by the naked pictures and all of that. I sense she is very pretty . He is awestruck. NO matter how pretty, EVERYONE can see the ugliness of a simpering whining little out of control little princess.

 

Dad is trying to Pawn her off to the highest bidder. The mom is stoned on ProZac. NOBODY is in control of their mind faculties AT ALL here ! Your son needs to RUN !

[suzyq83]

I know he needs to run. In January I sent him an article on controlling ppl and how a controlling partner will isolate you from family, make your parents wrong, etc etc etc. And the article said to "Run".

 

I don't really know what to do, but I am not going to fall into their hands. Right now, my son is making me seem "crazy" in his telling of the story, my older son said. Her family and he, tip perceptions. My son was never one to play with perceptions until he met them. So, I am just waiting for now, altho sure I could go get a restraining order -- this is all very classic abuse stuff. But to do so would be to make a big reaction which they are hoping for, so I am not going to do anything right now.

 

They feed and live on drama. High high drama, too.

 

Yes, it is a bad situation. Yes, narcissitic and sociopathic all fit his gf. She does not feel any empathy for what she causes others at all. Yes, she is very disturbing, and I think she is disturbed Any person sitting in that room that night, who did not know any of us, would have realized how out of control she is, and how her father was being intimidating to cover up his daughter's crap and to also test me. My boy is in with a bad group of ppl, I do know that. It seems like what parents must go thru when their kid joins a gang, and the family tries to wrestle their kid back from the gang. I will have to research what ppl do in that kind of situation, because this "cult" of 3 (their family)_ plus the peers that my son and his gf live for attention from, is kind of like that. It is also like if a family is living with a thief in their midst, or a sex offender, how to steal or offend, the thief or sex offender must pull deception over everyone's eyes, that is like what my son is in, with this family, and the girl -- she is like a criminal minded person and he is snowed by his own denial and their covert stuff.

 

And yes, she is a total out of control simpering princess. Always the "victim", too. Plus she is just like a fiend. Like a female fatal attraction stalker type. I don't know what to do any more, God, something has got to change.

[Mary3]

Your son is brainwashed. Under Mind Control. The longer he is around them the longer he becomes immune and numb to his world surroundings and the more CENTRAL they become in his mind.

 

But just as he was brainwashed to be with them , so he can BE un~brainwashed.

 

Think Patty Hearst , 1973 , rich heiress , kidnapped and held in a closet , mind controlled to the point of rape ,later got a shotgun and went to the bank with the SLA and helped rob a bank.

 

Her picture all over the world " Kidnapped girl robs bank " She was brainwashed when she went into that bank. They beat and beat her down in her mind , her spirit , her soul until she became numb and submissive , did what she was told, had no mind of her own , followed them all due to terroristic trauma.

 

Any of us , after months of isolation , and abuse , torture , could succumb to someone UNLESS we find a way out of there.

 

You should REALLY read about cults. Read every article you can. Find out how they get the person to be under their control. Find out how families got back their kids. In most cases they had to kidnap their own kids , go into hiding , therapy and much later their child returned to some simblance of normalcy.

 

Since your son is an adult , he is going to have to go through a few banks ( so to speak ) get into some trouble of some sort ( all related to her ) and he must WAKE UP. If you can find some help , please post here. I will also look and see what I can do about learning Cults and their operation.

 

She is a nutcase being pawned off to the highest bidder. Your son.

[suzyq83]

I have read on cults, prior to months ago, because it all seemed like brainwashing to me, so much, what has been happening for my son. And a lot of the psychology techniques employed by my son's gf, have been like what cults do, from what I have read. So, that was alarming. The principles of making someone feel like no one tells them what to do, everything is their choice, ie making them feel someone is GIVING them total choice, when in reality, they get bended into carrying out another's will for them, all the while believing it is their choice to. My son DOES carry out her will, and believes it his his choice to. There has been an identity shift, due to his relationship. He no longer experiences himself as himself, he experiences himself as Her man, etc. Has crossed over a line into this horrible mindmeld thing. Has become how THEY need him to be, for their daughter in roles and expectations, relationally. It has been disturbing therefore, to hear her family talking about my son's "free will" and BIG ad nauseum mention of "his choice" this and "his choice" that. All of the breaking away from morals and beliefs,and family system too, is done intentionally by cults. I will look up what I read eventually and enclose a link to it here. There are ppl you can hire to help someone become un-brainwashed. It costs about $3000.

 

Where on earth did this girl learn how to do the stuff she does, to shift someone away from who they ARE at their core? A thousand mental tricks. I have known this all along, it is WHY I was warning him in the beginning -- if you don't want a relationship with her, then don't fall for this.

 

In the meantime, what is happening is a consensus reality. My son's gf makes stuff up, along with my son, and that becomes their reality. They share it with her family, so it becomes more of a consensus reality. They share it with friends "his mom this and that stuff" and it becomes even more of a "reality" at least, to them. All I succeeded in doing the other week in trying to talk to them, was to reinforce that bad consensus reality. Families have consensus reality, an agreed upon consensus, of what is reality. In their family, their reality is that their daughter is good, smart, can do no wrong, is independent, etc. They know she lies, but have said kids go thru lying and consider it normal, and they have no real idea of how MUCH she lies, which is, in my estimation, chronic and borders on sociopathic, if it is not sociopathic. So it is like a bee's nest, if you go near it, the bees all attack and then bond together over their big experience of warding off the invader who shook their reality for a moment. All it does, is serve to reinforce more bonding. I exposed his daughter's lies to him and to her, herself. Ppl fight HARD to hang on to what they believe, it is particulary hard when someone comes along and is breaking them out of denial. I did that, that night, momentarily, and she did not like it. Of course. I knew she wouldn't. I was not trying to provoke her, I was trying to get down to real truth and actuality about all the stuff she tells herself and believes about me, and spins and messes with, and about the stuff she tells herself about my son's and my relationship. I was clearly able to say, 100%, I never had any trouble with (my son) until you, honestly. And my son knew too, that we never had, we locked eyes. And it was just plain affirmed. My son knew, it was time for her to face the music somewhat, that it really was not all him, he was almost relieved, at that moment, that this confrontation was happening, even if it was hard for her to hear or know. But the father could not deal with knowing the truth, that his daughter is a real meddler, and has spun quite a web, so he of course, had to be crappy to me, even though I was not being crappy to his daughter. She did not like breaking out of all the stuff she tells herself, and yet, the truth of my son's and my relationship all of his life, could no longer be denied in that moment. But, denial is powerful, and I am sure she is right back in it and am sure my son is, as well, along with her family, who just had to make me the thing that causes the problem. Their daughter deludes herself, she is young, but it is scary. I cannot believe they don't grasp what trouble their daughter is in. It could be drugs, although they don't think she would do drugs and she has seemed to not be one who would do drugs. It is hard to know why she is the way she is, but she is a monster, a girl who hates herself and who snipes and deceives and plays massive destructive head games and seems sociopathic in her lies and lack of empathy for anyone or anything. Her parents have some of it too, they both have lied to me, lord knows HOW much, but recently both lied to me, at separate times, and separately. Of course I am "wrong" for exposing her to herself, of course of course I have to be made wrong, for that. I was not mean, I was actually pretty nice to her although she was yelling at me and fighting me tooth and nail and getting off on it. I did for a moment feel genuinely sorry for her, because she is a young woman, who is a mess. But the problem is, that she truly BELIEVES her lies and has an ability to convince herself of them. So, I must stay away from the bee's nest completely. Otherwise my son may never be able to leave it. The hive will just keep pulling him in to the concensus reality that she is normal and fine, and that I am not.

[Mary3]

When you find something and it feels real good , and then someone tells you its bad and to stay away from it , you might want to be around it anyway because it feels good.

 

With your son , the girl made him feel good in some way , maybe her looks or her laugh or her strong personality. Maybe alot of things. Either way he was hooked,. When you saw the change you tried to tell your son. Now his reaction was to continue to want her , and likely told her about what you said. Now she was going to fight for your son and she did.

 

Exactly how long have they been together ? Are they living together ? Who decided that if they did ? When was your last communication ?

 

At this point your son will have to go through this and if he didnt have the mind control stuff he would likely be out of this by now.

 

Keep posting

[suzyq83]

He has been with her for a year and a half, but they met 2 years ago, and she started hanging out wherever he was and then became "friends" and then "friends with benefits" and then whatever they are now. No, they do not live together, he won't let her, but she graduated from college in May and instead of getting her own apt, she lives at home with her parents and sleeps alot at my son's and she still has him sleep at her parent's house. Despite graduating from college, she still works her PT job only. Doesn't seem to have any career goals. I asked her after college graduation, about her hopes for career and she said she would have to move to get a good job in her field. Which isn't true, but that's what she believes. Asked where she had considered moving to, she said nowhere. Her mother in May said in a roundabout way that she hopes they live together, to me.

 

Someone said to me today, to lie is one thing but to believe your lies is quite another, and he meant that she believes her lies and that's mental issues.

 

My last contact with him was that night when I tried to talk to his gf and father and my son. Since then my oldest son came to visit and my younger son did not come to join us, was a real let down and also, just making it all worse. My older son went to see him finally, at his workplace, and my younger son said he is trying to "get away from being the bad kid" -- that is a trip that he and his gf are on. She told him I make him the bad kid, (another one of her great interpretations used to make my son turn against me) and ever since then, my son says I make him the bad kid, although I have gone out of my way not to. If I ran a red light and a police officer gave me a ticket, the police officer did not make me a bad person even tho I did something wrong. My kid has lost his ability to reason, any longer, or it is just bs, and part of the make believe front they put on together as a couple, about me.

[Mary3]

She sounds like a total user , a lazy bum , and she has found her meal ticket through your son. I bet her goal is to marry him so she can lay on her lazy fat bum bum and let him work and sweat. HOW did she get like this ? :Mommy and Daddy. She has no value system of work ethic. She will either mooch off M & D or mooch off your son. They know she won't amount to nothing with her psycho behavior and cultists beliefs.

 

Now as for you. : If you questioned this opportunistic succubus then she sensed you were * on to her * and her lazy user ways. That is where the REAL war began. She wants to suck the life out of your son until he is a hollow shell ( Getting pretty close ) and have him under her psycho control. I wonder when he will wake up.

 

You are the enemy to her BIG time. She has convinced your son he is the bad boy bit when it comes to you. She just wants him to give up and succumb to her completely.

 

I say shake some fences. Rattle something up a bit.

[almost famous]

I say do not shake things up because it will only further alienate her son from her. He is a grown man and he is choosing to alienate himself from his mom in favor of this girl....not much you can do but stay out of it and enjoy your other son. He isn't asking for anything from his mom, so she really has no leverage and will just have to wait this out.

[suzyq83]

I think it is true that she sensed I was on to her from the beginning and that IS when the real war began. And I agree that doing anything, my son and she just use it to further alienate him from me, so hell with doing anything. It has proven true every time, that if I do anything, that is what happens, more alienation, further away. Thank you, both of you. It is horrible. I wake up weeping. Al anon helps but of course life won't be right ever again, until something gets resolved someday.

[suzyq83]

If I rattle anything up they then say it is me and recently say I am "crazy" and then spread that around, and just make dramas. They use it as an excuse for why he doesn't see me. "Proof". They recently made me out to be "confrontational" to their friends, too - I do confront important stuff, it is the only way to resolve. But I di it nicely. They make confrontation into a 4 letter word, when it isn't. Basically, if I exist anywhere near my son, I am made into something negative, no matter if I shake things up or not, speak or not, smile or not, etc.It is truly toxic.