Angel1111 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I saw his profile on a mutual friend's page and added him. He was the first to email me. However, I did search for him a few weeks before that as I wondered what he was up to... Just coincidence that he turned up quickly there-after. His Mother set up his facebook account and knew the password and everything. We both know that his Mother was reading his messages to me, even though they were pretty innocent. When he changed his password, she called exactly 5 minutes after that with a pretty weird conversation... Why do you ask Angel? Because I was wondering if he had been deliberately searching for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Angel1111 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Yes, exactly! What's up with him and his mom? I'm assuming this guy is over 15, right? My 17-year-old wouldn't want me doing that....and it wouldn't even occur to me to do it. Strange. Link to post Share on other sites
Confused_Me Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 What's up with him and his mom? I'm assuming this guy is over 15, right? My 17-year-old wouldn't want me doing that....and it wouldn't even occur to me to do it. Strange. His Mom is a bit of a case I'm afraid. She's over 50 but acts like a teenager Many years ago his Mom and I had a bit of a run-in. She broke my car door handle and I hounded her to pay for it. Now she has labeled me. Oh well, we do come from a small town!! She even wants to go on Big Brother ... I don't know why she is doing this. Even HE says it is wrong! Link to post Share on other sites
Confused_Me Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Because I was wondering if he had been deliberately searching for you. I don't know for certain. He did tell me he had "always" like me! When he said this I looked suspiciously at him... He replied with: "You don't believe me do you?" ... I said: "NO"... and left it at that... Who knows. Maybe he is being truthful but I'm not gonna believe it when there are so many factors involved here. He tried to get with me many years ago but I said no. I thought he was hung-up on his old girlfriend and I liked her very much so I stayed well away from him. Link to post Share on other sites
Confused_Me Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 What's up with him and his mom? I'm assuming this guy is over 15, right? My 17-year-old wouldn't want me doing that....and it wouldn't even occur to me to do it. Strange. yeah, he's 33.... hehe... BTW, thanks Angel for asking me questions and not just assumming. I really do appreciate it. I feel more open about discussing now and not just defending myself Link to post Share on other sites
Confused_Me Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Honestly, I think your friend isn't telling you everything. I think he has encouraged her to be there with him and he has probably said and done a lot of things that have motivated this woman to take the leap she has taken. Yes, I don't think he is telling me everything because when he tried to talk to me about it, my feelings had got the better of me and I didn't want to hear him and give him advice. I know this sounds bad, but I have a habit of rescueing men, so I was thinking he was just another man looking for a soft place to fall; and I didn't want to be that place. I was holidaying at the time and didn't want to hear his problems with her. I told him I didn't have all the answers and that he needed to go with his own intuition. I knew I wasn't the right person for him to be discussing this with. So I didn't! But maybe I should have;) Link to post Share on other sites
Angel1111 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Yes, I don't think he is telling me everything because when he tried to talk to me about it, my feelings had got the better of me and I didn't want to hear him and give him advice. I know this sounds bad, but I have a habit of rescueing men, so I was thinking he was just another man looking for a soft place to fall; and I didn't want to be that place. I was holidaying at the time and didn't want to hear his problems with her. I told him I didn't have all the answers and that he needed to go with his own intuition. I knew I wasn't the right person for him to be discussing this with. So I didn't! But maybe I should have;) First of all, thank you. I'm glad you're feeling better about talking. It sounds like you did the right thing with him, and said all the right things. I don't think he's being a cad or anything but I do think he's slanting the story in his favor so that he'll have your sympathy. Doesn't make him an ass, just human. He probably is having legitimate second-thoughts about his relationship with his GF but that doesn't necessarily make her a bad person, nor him. What that means for you is not much, really. Just be his friend, don't get caught up in taking sides, and be slightly on guard for your own well-being. Link to post Share on other sites
Confused_Me Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 First of all, thank you. I'm glad you're feeling better about talking. It sounds like you did the right thing with him, and said all the right things. I don't think he's being a cad or anything but I do think he's slanting the story in his favor so that he'll have your sympathy. Doesn't make him an ass, just human. He probably is having legitimate second-thoughts about his relationship with his GF but that doesn't necessarily make her a bad person, nor him. What that means for you is not much, really. Just be his friend, don't get caught up in taking sides, and be slightly on guard for your own well-being. Yes, thanks so much. I have been guarded and will continue to be. I know I deserve far more than that. No, I'm not saying they are bad people. They just maybe wrong for eachother. Only time will tell ... No-one can make you happy, that is up to yourself. I know that more than anyone ... Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 He told me how this made him feel and emasculated was what he felt. Being proposed to made him feel emasculated?? Living in the 1400s, and likes his women to know their place, does he? And this wuss, who hasn't even grown hair on his chest yet, has two women fighting over him? Wow! Give me a REAL man any day! Link to post Share on other sites
Confused_Me Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Being proposed to made him feel emasculated?? Living in the 1400s, and likes his women to know their place, does he? And this wuss, who hasn't even grown hair on his chest yet, has two women fighting over him? Wow! Give me a REAL man any day! It's very normal for a man to feel this way ... Doesn't make him a wuss! Just a man ... The thing is it made HIM feel emasculated ... Doesn't really matter if you think it is right or wrong... but how He felt about it ... Is it so wrong that he wants to be the one to propose? Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I would think it should take a lot more than being proposed to by a woman to make a REAL man feel "emasculated" lol So much for Sadie Hawkins Day and Leap years.......not to mention women's liberation and equality of the sexes.... Link to post Share on other sites
Confused_Me Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I would think it should take a lot more than being proposed to by a woman to make a REAL man feel "emasculated" lol ... and now you are attacking his character... unreal!! So much for Sadie Hawkins Day and Leap years.......not to mention women's liberation and equality of the sexes.... Well, with all due respect to him he never said the exact words of feeling "emasculated"... just that he told her he wanted to be the one to do the proposing... when the time was right. Of all the books on men I have ever read, they say it is necessary to the male ego to want to feel they have won the woman, so to speak ... don't ask me why, as I never wrote the books. But of all the "old fashioned" guys I know (and most of them are country men, albeit old fashioned values) ... they say the same thing. Anyway, I've got old fashioned values myself, and I couldn't propose to man, as it wouldn't feel right to me. And all my gfs feel the same way... so I don't think he is alone there... Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Of all the books on men I have ever read, they say it is necessary to the male ego to want to feel they have won the woman And he didn't win here? This woman left her long term partner for him. Don't tell me he didn't see that coming considering they had an affair and I'm sure during the A leaving her partner DID come up in conversation many times.. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I don't think he's being a cad or anything but I do think he's slanting the story in his favor so that he'll have your sympathy. Doesn't make him an ass, just human. He's doing exactly what his MW (or taken women since she wasn't married, but in a long term relationship) did to him. Exaggerate and bend the truth slightly to his favour. And it IS to gain sympathy. It's also abit of manipulation as well, though not malcious..Just selfish. Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I would think it should take a lot more than being proposed to by a woman to make a REAL man feel "emasculated" lol ... and now you are attacking his character... unreal!! How is that attacking the guy's character ? and in the same post you admit that it wasn't the exact way he phrased it - it was your interpretation. As I said it takes way more than THAT to "emasculate" a man.... Link to post Share on other sites
Angel1111 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I would think it should take a lot more than being proposed to by a woman to make a REAL man feel "emasculated" lol So much for Sadie Hawkins Day and Leap years.......not to mention women's liberation and equality of the sexes.... I gotta tell you that you women are truly clueless if you don't understand this basic concept about relationships. I'm all for women's lib - meaning if I want to be the president of a company (which I am, plus the manager for another one), that DOES NOT mean I take that into my relationships. I want a man who is in control, decisive and successful. I absolutely would not want a man who would be happy about me proposing to him. The only guys I've ever known who would want that are the wuss's. Yes, there are the small percentage of relationships between men and women that cross roles - where the woman takes on the role of the man and the man stays home and raises the babies. In those cases, maybe it would work for the woman to propose. But, it's definitely not my thing. Nor is it most people's thing. I'll just say it bluntly: Except in very rare cases, it's an incredibly stupid thing for a woman to propose marriage to man. It will backfire every time. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 It's very normal for a man to feel this way ... Doesn't make him a wuss! Just a man ... The thing is it made HIM feel emasculated ... Doesn't really matter if you think it is right or wrong... but how He felt about it ... A man - just one, thank god, and one I'll never have to meet. Luckily all the men I know are a little more enlightened than that! They're real men - strong, tough, not easily frightened by a woman who has brain cells in her head or ambitions or drive. They're able to be a partner rather than a master to the woman in their lives and they're able to love and respect as an equal, and they do their fair share at work and at home and in all aspects of their lives. No prehistoric wusses for me, TYVM - you can keep him with my blessings! Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I am going to play devil's advocate and go on my gut instinct. You guys are all arguing about if it is good to porpose to a man and something tells me it is all in vain because what I think happened here was this: The woman did not get down on one knew open up a a little velvet box with diamond cufflinks and said "will you marry me (___insert guy's name here____) I think what she did was, she moved out, she left another relationship behind, is excited to start in this new one and said "Hey ___insert name here___ let's get married, I want to get married waddya say?" And I don't see anything wrong with that at all. A woman that is direct in what she wants is not emasculating at all, it is SMART! She wants to take the relationship to the next level SO WHAT if she makes it known to the man she loves?" Or is a woman supposed to sit around quietly for years and years in dating mode pretending everything is peachy and secretly wishing for her man to pop the question? Perhaps the guy feels pressure now, oh well, he knows he is in this for serious reasons and is not going to waste this woman's time. But this idea that he feels "emasculated" I think those are just words being forced around here given our own precoceived notions and given the image the OP conconcted in our heads when she said "she" asked him to marry him. So we immediately imagined this woman down on one knee popping the question. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I am going to play devil's advocate and go on my gut instinct. You guys are all arguing about if it is good to porpose to a man and something tells me it is all in vain because what I think happened here was this: The woman did not get down on one knew open up a a little velvet box with diamond cufflinks and said "will you marry me (___insert guy's name here____) I think what she did was, she moved out, she left another relationship behind, is excited to start in this new one and said "Hey ___insert name here___ let's get married, I want to get married waddya say?" And I don't see anything wrong with that at all. A woman that is direct in what she wants is not emasculating at all, it is SMART! She wants to take the relationship to the next level SO WHAT if she makes it known to the man she loves?" Or is a woman supposed to sit around quietly for years and years in dating mode pretending everything is peachy and secretly wishing for her man to pop the question? Perhaps the guy feels pressure now, oh well, he knows he is in this for serious reasons and is not going to waste this woman's time. But this idea that he feels "emasculated" I think those are just words being forced around here given our own precoceived notions and given the image the OP conconcted in our heads when she said "she" asked him to marry him. So we immediately imagined this woman down on one knee popping the question. OK, this is getting freaky. You and I seem to be on the same page alot lately! I agree with you and I'm in the devil's corner as well. He told me how this made him feel and emasculated was what he felt. I think this turned him off like you said. Did he actually use the word emasculated? Originally posted by Angel1111All that aside, I must say that my biggest concern is that this woman proposed to this guy. Talk about demasculating! I'm guessing that was one of the nails in the coffin because it was probably a huge turn-off for him. Why couldn't she be with him before that?? Can someone please answer that one for me!?? And, why is she in such a rush to marry him in only 4 months of being in an exclusive relationship? Sounds like she has something to hide if you ask me... He hasn't even a chance to get to know her or her him... If I was her, I would only do this if I was running away from something... or myself. She couldn't be with him before that because she needed time alone before changing her life completely for him. You assume the worst, that she has something to hide, like she's going to use him, screw him over. Remember, THEY had an affair for 5-6 years, so one would think they "know" eachother pretty well, especially intention wise. I hate to say it, but alot of what you're saying is projection and thinking the absolute worst of this woman. A hint of jealously, your hurt feelings and emotions is what's driving you to feel this way though - But that doesn't mean that is what's going on with her. Link to post Share on other sites
child_of_isis Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Your logic is lacking. You can't blame his addictions on her. Evidently, this is how he handles life. It hasn't anything to do with her. An addict will create reasons to feed the beast. But...what they appreciate more in life than reasons, are their enablers..... people who make excuses for their drinking. I truly hope she is right for him, but deep in my heart, I know she is not because of the drug use and alchohol he is using. He is numbing himself for whatever reasons I'm not sure of... My biggest fear is running into him in another 13 years and seeing him down the local Pub every single night while she is out cheating around. Can any of you understand that?? That is my logic. Link to post Share on other sites
Confused_Me Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 A man - just one, thank god, and one I'll never have to meet. Luckily all the men I know are a little more enlightened than that! They're real men - strong, tough, not easily frightened by a woman who has brain cells in her head or ambitions or drive. They're able to be a partner rather than a master to the woman in their lives and they're able to love and respect as an equal, and they do their fair share at work and at home and in all aspects of their lives. No prehistoric wusses for me, TYVM - you can keep him with my blessings! I think you are generalising here a bit - you're judging him over one incident alone. All you have to go by is "my take" on it; and all I know is it turned him off in some way. Maybe I am just assuming he felt immasculated... I NEVER said he DID feel immasculated if you read back. What way, I don't really know... I guess only he himself knows that! ... and anyway ... How do you know the woman in question here has any "brain cells" ... Link to post Share on other sites
Confused_Me Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 A man - just one, thank god, and one I'll never have to meet. Luckily all the men I know are a little more enlightened than that! They're real men - strong, tough, not easily frightened by a woman who has brain cells in her head or ambitions or drive. They're able to be a partner rather than a master to the woman in their lives and they're able to love and respect as an equal, and they do their fair share at work and at home and in all aspects of their lives. No prehistoric wusses for me, TYVM - you can keep him with my blessings! I think you are generalising here a bit - you're judging him over one incident alone. All you have to go by is "my take" on it; and all I know is it turned him off in some way. Maybe I am just assuming he felt immasculated... I NEVER said he DID feel immasculated if you read back. What way, I don't really know... I guess only he himself knows that! ... and anyway ... How do you know the woman in question here has any "brain cells" ... Link to post Share on other sites
Confused_Me Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Your logic is lacking. You can't blame his addictions on her. Evidently, this is how he handles life. It hasn't anything to do with her. An addict will create reasons to feed the beast. But...what they appreciate more in life than reasons, are their enablers..... people who make excuses for their drinking. I didn't blame his addictions on her. I just said he was numbing himself. Simple. And my belief is, it is because he is not following his intuition; and that is, this is not the right woman for him! By him having feelings for someone else (me) pretty much tells me this. And, of course everything else I observed when I was with him... But that's his choice, quite frankly... I feel he is sticking with what he knows. But I do know that he wants a lot more out of life than what he has had in the past. He has ambitions now, where as, he didn't before... I just see him looking over his shoulder at when she will cheat on him. But, yes... maybe this is his Karmic lesson ... However, as much as I love debating about this with you all; I'm now OVER it! ... I woke up this morning and saw the pointlessness of all of this. What exactly am I worrying about!? Nothing. Because ultimately, this is his descision and it is HIS life. What he chooses to do with it is HIS business... I'm stepping way back from this one. I don't like feeling jealous and all these other emotions I am feeling! What for? I deserve so much better than all this. I see what I see. I'm sorry I cannot spell it out "logically" for all of you like you would like me to... But I'm just not wired that way. I always think outside the box and I'm a feeling person. I feel things and I see things most people don't. Sometimes I cannot always explain what it is I am actually seeing ... And anyway! How boring life would be if we were all the same... Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 OK, this is getting freaky. You and I seem to be on the same page alot lately! Well it's about frickin' time, isn't it? :laugh: She couldn't be with him before that because she needed time alone before changing her life completely for him. You assume the worst, that she has something to hide, like she's going to use him, screw him over. Remember, THEY had an affair for 5-6 years, so one would think they "know" eachother pretty well, especially intention wise. I hate to say it, but alot of what you're saying is projection and thinking the absolute worst of this woman. A hint of jealously, your hurt feelings and emotions is what's driving you to feel this way though - But that doesn't mean that is what's going on with her. Again, very well said. I didn't blame his addictions on her. I just said he was numbing himself. Simple. And my belief is, it is because he is not following his intuition; and that is, this is not the right woman for him! By him having feelings for someone else (me) pretty much tells me this. And, of course everything else I observed when I was with him... But that's his choice, quite frankly... I feel he is sticking with what he knows. But I do know that he wants a lot more out of life than what he has had in the past. He has ambitions now, where as, he didn't before... I just see him looking over his shoulder at when she will cheat on him. But, yes... maybe this is his Karmic lesson ... However, as much as I love debating about this with you all; I'm now OVER it! ... I woke up this morning and saw the pointlessness of all of this. What exactly am I worrying about!? Nothing. Because ultimately, this is his descision and it is HIS life. What he chooses to do with it is HIS business... I'm stepping way back from this one. I don't like feeling jealous and all these other emotions I am feeling! What for? I deserve so much better than all this. I see what I see. I'm sorry I cannot spell it out "logically" for all of you like you would like me to... But I'm just not wired that way. I always think outside the box and I'm a feeling person. I feel things and I see things most people don't. Sometimes I cannot always explain what it is I am actually seeing ... And anyway! How boring life would be if we were all the same... That's understandable Confused_me I can see where you are coming from, you do see what you see and I would feel like a complete hypocrite coming down hard on you for seeing your experience in your own unique way when I can say that I have also been in your shoes in terms of knowing my own reality. No one can see the reality of your situation more than you and that does not take way from things that are real and we could we way off on. Having said that, there are some things that do stand out and that steer people to think as they do pretty much in a unanimous pattern. I am glad for you that you at least realised that you don't need to take on this man's problem, you were sort of doing that, and in praticular since you said you have this pattern of rescuing guys this had SAVE ME written all over it. But it's valid to also point out that the types of people that thrive on fixing or rescuing others also tend to seek out patterns of crisis and sometimes even go as far as creating it. Your best bet is indeed to step away, ride this wave of clarity and awareness that you are on right now and really step away. If this guy is really not into this other woman and wants out he will come looking for you when he fixes all his drama. In the mean time you save face and you exit the picture with a clean slate both for your own good and in his eyes. Let him fix himself and his situation and come to you when/if he does, that is the best way to go about this who needs that drama? Believe me a confused man will drive you up the wall. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I think you are generalising here a bit - you're judging him over one incident alone. All you have to go by is "my take" on it; and all I know is it turned him off in some way. It may have turned him off in some way, but I honestly think you're reaching for reasons for him to end..While quietly waiting in the wings. Her loss will be your gain and even if you're not saying it, you're definately thinking it, hoping it or feeling it.. Maybe I am just assuming he felt immasculated... I NEVER said he DID feel immasculated if you read back. What way, I don't really know... I guess only he himself knows that! ... and anyway ... How do you know the woman in question here has any "brain cells" Obviously he thinks she does because he spent 5-6 years with her in an affair, and is with her now. Like it or not, that IS the reality. You also assume he's going to throw in the towel and run away because she wants to get married. Let them sort it out, talk it out, without you in the picture.. The vibe you send off to him says alot, I feel it through your words and from what you've said, so I'm sure offline and face to face, he KNOWS what you think and feel, so that is just making this harder on him. A true friend will back off, keep her mouth shut and let him decide for himself what he wants - And if that is her, you support him, you don't discourage him. He has invested alot in her. I didn't blame his addictions on her. I just said he was numbing himself. Simple. And my belief is, it is because he is not following his intuition; and that is, this is not the right woman for him! By him having feelings for someone else (me) pretty much tells me this. And, of course everything else I observed when I was with him... But that's his choice, quite frankly... I feel he is sticking with what he knows. But I do know that he wants a lot more out of life than what he has had in the past. He has ambitions now, where as, he didn't before... I just see him looking over his shoulder at when she will cheat on him. But, yes... maybe this is his Karmic lesson ... How can you say she'll cheat on him? Right now I'm sure she could say HE is having an emotional affair with you. If anything, he's going to be the one to cheat on her. You seem to forget that they have some history, 6 years or so, yes it was in an affair setting, but I think they know eachother pretty well..She left her partner, changed her life, got herself together and now she wants a chance with him. I honestly don't see what the problem is. She has every right to want that, now that she's free and able to do so. You don't know how this will play out between them, so you're assuming alot here. However, as much as I love debating about this with you all; I'm now OVER it! ... I woke up this morning and saw the pointlessness of all of this. What exactly am I worrying about!? Nothing. Because ultimately, this is his descision and it is HIS life. What he chooses to do with it is HIS business... I'm stepping way back from this one. Yes, it is. His choice, his life, his decision. You may not like his choices, especially if he does end up with her in the long run, so you're doing the right thing by backing off and removing yourself from his personal life. It'll save you pain and heartache. I don't like feeling jealous and all these other emotions I am feeling! What for? I deserve so much better than all this. I'm so glad you see this, you DO deserve better. And he can't give that to you because of her. He really isn't a free man.. I'm sure once you detach abit from him the jealously and emotional rollercoaster ride will stop. I see what I see. I'm sorry I cannot spell it out "logically" for all of you like you would like me to... But I'm just not wired that way. I always think outside the box and I'm a feeling person. I feel things and I see things most people don't. Sometimes I cannot always explain what it is I am actually seeing ... That is a good thing, but it's also a bad thing because you can't really 'see' your situation clearly. Just always keep in mind that at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you see/think about his life because it's not your life to mess with. Noone likes a 3rd person too involved in their business.. Link to post Share on other sites
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