Husband Not Sure He Wants to Stay Married

[moniboni]

The other day my husband and I got into an argument about 'the same old thing'. He left the house for two hours and when he returned he told me that he thinks our marriage has serious problems and that he is not sure whether he wants to be married. He wants to get counseling and says that he would like to work it out, but he also tells me that when I was gone for three weeks that life was 'easier' and that it got him to thinking that life might be 'easier' and 'better' if he is not married to me.

 

I was shocked and devastated. I know that we have problems and agree we need counseling. But this is so painful. I was gone for three weeks and now he isn't sure he wants to stay married? We have two kids and a life together. I don't get it.

 

We have trust issues - which is a terrible cycle of him lying/pulling away and me pushing/questioning/yelling - sometimes he is guilty, sometimes he is not. I know we have trust issues and other issues, but I feel like he should just be asking for counseling, not telling me he may want a divorce.

 

He told me he was thinking about divorce only after I told him that I want him to start telling me the truth. And told him that IF he feels that he can't be faithful and truthful that we should divorce because the fact is that some day I will catch him lying about something big and it would be a divorce. So don't waste my time by lying, just tell me the truth or leave me.

 

So, is he telling me he can't tell the truth? When I asked him he said, 'no' that is not it. That he is not lying or cheating, that he has never lied or cheated (other than the times that I found out about on my own) and that he does not intend to lie or cheat, but that he is only telling me that our marriage is bad and that he thinks he might be happier without me.

 

Below are what I see as the major 'pain point's of our marriage. I'm sure my husband would have a different perspective. Are these the types of things that happen in all marriages? My husband says that I am blowing things about of proportion and that he is an honest and faithful husband.

 

 

Recently....

I try very hard to trust my husband, but I just don't know how to trust or believe him when he has lied to me so many times and when people have basically said that he is a cheat. (See history below. In addition to the history below there have been other lying incidents and many incidents of me not trusting him or accusing him when I have no proof that he has done anything wrong.)

 

He travels a ton. A few months ago he told me that an old classmate emailed him and that he emailed her back. I was fine about it and did not act jealous. I asked him what they talked about. He said,' nothing really, just small talk'. I haven't seen her in 20 years she is a stranger. There is nothing really to talk about other than hello and that's the end of it."

 

Well, when I got home I found their email exchange. She lives in Colorado and is divorced (which he says he did not know she was divorced). He was planning a biz trip to Colorado. He had asked her to meet him for coffee to 'share life stories'. I confronted him. I said, "are you meeting her"? He denied it. I kept asking. He got angry and said that if I can't trust him that we don't have a marriage. I kept asking. He kept denying. Then I finally told him that I knew. He then didn't say anything. I freaked out. I started screaming and shouting. It seemed to me that he was trying to hide something and that if it was innocent he wouldn't not have been compelled to lie to me.

 

This got me really freaked out. I started thinking that he must cheat on me when he travels.

 

So once again we are on the vicious cycle. Only now he tells me that he doesn't know if he wants to be married to me because he says that I don't trust him and I badger him.

 

I want to get counseling and learn how to trust him. I love him and want to work through it. I know that the marriage is a relationship and that both parties are responsible for things that go on. That said, there is a part of me that feels like he is trying to place the blame on me and trying to push me away because he believes that he can't or does not wish to stop lying to me. In fact, he has told me that the reason he lies to me is because he is afraid how I might react, and that thus it is my fault. Then in the next breath he'll say that he is a coward. I think if he didn't do things like ask women out, then there would be no reason for lying to begin with.

 

I don't know what to do. I feel so vulnerable, wounded and confused. Am I a dumbass for loving this man and wanting to work through our marriage? Should I do everything in our power to save our marriage? Or should I just let him go? Sometimes I think that he doesn't really love me and that is why he lies to me.

 

I'm mostly scared and hurt. But I'm also a bit angry. I feel like this man has repeatedly betrayed me, our marriage and my trust. And that he now blames me and thinks I'm a bad wife because I don't know how to trust him anymore.

 

History in Reverse Chronological Order

 

 

Eight years into our marriage....

My friend was dating a guy at my husband's company. When the guy found out that my husband was married he said, "He's married? I didn't know that. I thought he and Tiffany were a thing(a coworker)." My friend freaked out and started pressing the guy for answers. The guy started back pedaling and wouldn't say anymore. When I asked my husband about this he told me that the guy is just a jerk and is probably just trying to cause trouble and trying to gossip. My husband also said,' Do you think I'm a bad person'? That is what he always says to me. He has said it every single time I have caught him in a lie.

 

Six years into our marriage...

My husband travels. One trip he did not come home when he was supposed to. He told me he missed the plane because he had been out at a bar with his female coworker, that he drank too much and that he slept in. When he returned from that trip he did not have his watch - the watch that he NEVER takes off - that he showers with - that he wouldn't even take off when we made love (even though I begged him to). I always wondered if he cheated on me that night. Also, I felt direspected - like he basically thumbed his nose at our marriage counseling and was going back to his lying ways.

 

Four years into our marriage...

I discovered that my husband had been looking at porn on the internet for the past four years. The problem was that he not only hid the porn from me, but that he lied to me and allowed his porn habits to interfere with our relationship. For years I would want him to come to bed and feel abandoned, he would tell me he was doing school work or work. In fact, he was looking at porn. What is so bad is that I could 'feel' that he was lying for those four years, but I couldn't put my finger on it. So I existed in a perpetual state of unease. That is the thing about living with a man who lies to you, it creates a perpetual state of uneasiness - you can feel the lies but you can not exactly determined what they are. Or once I came home after two weeks of trying to find us a place across the country to live. When I came home he was supposed to have us packed. Nothing was packed and the house was a mess. He hadn't packed because he had been looking at porn, which I did not know at the time. Instead at the time he got angry at me for getting angry with him.

 

When I confronted him after four years of sneaking porn, I gave him the chance to tell the truth. I asked him, "Have you been looking at porn on the internet?" He denied it. I kept asking/almost begging him to tell me, he kept denying it. He at first got really sad that I would ask such a thing and that I would not believe him. Then he got angry and told me that I was just imagining things and that I was all screwed up. It wasn't until I told him that I knew for a fact from looking at the computer history that he admitted it.

 

This was very damaging. I felt like he never tells me the truth and he even tries to lie when he gets caught. I became extremely suspicious and jealous. and I did not trust him at all anymore.

 

After this we briefly went to marriage counseling.

 

Three Months into our marriage.....

I found out that he was receiving playboy mags in the mail. What made this so bad was not the mags, but that he was actively sneaking them behind my back, which means that he was having to intercept the mail and actively deceive me. Furthermore, when I confronted him, he denied it. He did not admit it until I showed him that piece of mail we had gotten from playboy.

 

I felt sick. I felt like I had married a man who would lie to me about women and sex. But, I tried to let it go.

 

Two months into our marriage...

it was valentines day. A couple days before I had found some body paints. When I asked him about them he claimed that they were meant to be a surprise for me, I could tell he was lying. On valentines day he came home from work late. I had made him a card and dinner, and was waiting for him. When he got home he had no card or anything for me. Later that night he told me to get in bed naked and that he had a surprise for me. (I was 7 months pregnant). When I got in bed, he blindfolded me, the next thing I know I felt cold sticky stuff on me. I felt instantly ill, as I knew what I was feeling were those body paints that he lied to me about. I shot out of bed and we got into a big fight. He kept telling me that the paints were a 'surprise' for me. But I knew he was lying and I kept pushing him. Finally he said that the paints were given to him by his ex girlfriend and that he had hid them from me because he didn't want to throw them away but that he didn't want me to get mad either. I never knew whether he was telling me the truth.

 

18 months into our marriage....

He was working at a restaurant and several times he came home late. When I called the restaurant to find him there was no answer - the restaurant was closed and everyone was gone. When I asked him why he was late he told me that it was because he had given a busgirl a ride home. A couple months later when we went to his restaurant for a drink the bartender called him a sleeze and said that he has herpes. I asked him why the bartender said that and he said, 'he is just joking - don't take it seriously'. What bothered me is that bartender also made fun of a very feminine guy calling him 'queer' and of a know-it-all guy, calling him a know-it-all. So I wondered, does the bartender really think my husband is a sleeze?

 

It was around this time that I began to distrust my husband and started to get suspicious/jealous

[LucreziaBorgia]

I guess the better question would be: why do you want to stay married to this guy? There really isn't a marriage to save. He's been cheating on you nearly the entire time you have been married - I'm not sure why that isn't clear to you.

 

You don't need counseling to learn to trust him. You need a good divorce lawyer, and a counselor to help you let go and get out of this dysfunctional mess.

[Ronni_W]

If you both want to stay married to each other, then yes, you'll need to work through your trust issues...and he'll need to work to changing his behaviours that are detrimental to the marital relationship.

 

But if I understand your post, you are looking for potential reasons why a 3-week absence would lead him to thinking about ending the relationship.

 

Trust issues almost always result in there being a serious need for control -- we want to control their behaviour outside the house, especially when we're not around, but that also morphs into (unconsciously) controlling how the dishwasher is packed, how often we have sex, the "right" way to eat spaghetti, when we visit the in-laws, and so on. Big or small, we have to control it all.

 

IF (big *IF*) he was being subjected to that type of environment, he surely would have felt the 'freedom' in the 3 weeks you were away.

 

Not saying that your lack of trust is not appropriate in this situation. Just looking at a possible way that he may be seeing it. Also not saying that his view is not distorted.

Perhaps it is that your way of coping with your trust issues may be 'feeding' his lack of self-management issues...which then feeds your lack of trust?

[porter218]

Two months into our marriage...

it was valentines day. A couple days before I had found some body paints. When I asked him about them he claimed that they were meant to be a surprise for me, I could tell he was lying. On valentines day he came home from work late. I had made him a card and dinner, and was waiting for him. When he got home he had no card or anything for me. Later that night he told me to get in bed naked and that he had a surprise for me. (I was 7 months pregnant). When I got in bed, he blindfolded me, the next thing I know I felt cold sticky stuff on me. I felt instantly ill, as I knew what I was feeling were those body paints that he lied to me about. I shot out of bed and we got into a big fight. He kept telling me that the paints were a 'surprise' for me. But I knew he was lying and I kept pushing him. Finally he said that the paints were given to him by his ex girlfriend and that he had hid them from me because he didn't want to throw them away but that he didn't want me to get mad either. I never knew whether he was telling me the truth.

 

 

Wow, this is one cold manipulating lier. Run from him and fast. He has been cheating on you since day one. Those body paints were probably not even from an ex this is probably something he used while he was cheating on you...yuck:sick:. The extent he went to continue this lie is just disgusting. If he went that far to continue this lie then he will never under any circumstance stop lying and cheating.

[Billy Bob]

You sound like a control freak??!!?? No wonder the guy is thinking he would be better off without you? Who cares if he looked at porn on the internet? So what if he lost his watch? Geeze, let him have coffee with a classmate from 20 years ago... Sounds like you are the one with the big issues... I'd re-evaluate my marriage as well.

 

OMG - you scare me as well....

[Billy Bob]

I guess the better question would be: why do you want to stay married to this guy? There really isn't a marriage to save. He's been cheating on you nearly the entire time you have been married - I'm not sure why that isn't clear to you.

 

You don't need counseling to learn to trust him. You need a good divorce lawyer, and a counselor to help you let go and get out of this dysfunctional mess.

 

I don't see any real eidence that he's been out cheating on her???? She thinks once when he lost his watch and missed his plane? I wouldn't bother removing my watch if I banged some random chick?? Because he looked at porn and didn't tell her? She sounds like a prude and a nutcase.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Red flags:

1. "late" home from work often

2. coworkers commenting on his player ways

3. the body paint incident - valentines, late getting home, no card/gift for wife, lying about the body paints

4. lying about porn

5. out drinking with a female coworker - claims to have drunk too much and slept in, watch turns up missing

6. another coworker commenting that he thought he was dating Tiffany

7. lying about meeting with an old female 'friend'

 

Let's look at them a bit:

 

1. "late" from work is one of the top excuses that someone who cheats gives in order to explain time spent with the person he/she is cheating with.

 

2. his coworkers think he is a sleaze - people don't say stuff like this without some basis for it

 

3. he was "late" on valentines day - wonder why? A good deal of MM try to squeeze in a visit with OW, and usually it is on the way home from work. Then he lies about the body paints.

 

4. constant lying and gaslighting

 

5. which is more plausible? the 'innocent' story or the story that happens millions of times all over the world when people are out drinking on business trips?

 

6. again - this coworker wouldn't have said something like that randomly out of the blue - he had to have had a reason, and it wasn't just 'causing trouble' - note now two people with similar stories pointing to him cheating are trying to 'cause trouble' - are all of his coworkers co-conspirators? Doubtful. The fact that his coworkers don't even know he is married isn't good either.

 

7. meeting up with an old 'friend' and lying about it - classic

 

I'm not sure why it isn't clear. Back in my bad old cheating days, these types of things were all too common. I guess I recognize the behaviors because I used them so often myself.

[Tripper]

MB, you've painted a bleak picture of your H and your M. However it's only one side of the story. What would your H post about you if he wrote on this forum??

 

Judging by the answers posted, respondents have posted both pro and con with respect to your side of the story. Which makes me think that there is a lot happening in the background.

 

Since your H has suggested counseling, why not take him up on the offer. Not necessarily with the intention of trying to repair the M, rather with the purpose of having a moderated discussion to lay all the cards on the table to see a) if there is anything left to repair b) can it be repaired c) do both of you want to try and repair the damage. Implied in this is total honesty from both parties about "lying and cheating" etc.

 

As to whether or not he's been cheating, well you see him holding a smoking gun... but you really don't have his fingerprints on the handle or gunshot residue on his hands.

[Billy Bob]

These incidents appear so spread out though... over years.. Sounds like he travels alot and has female co-workers. I think she is just overly suspicious. Sounds like he was scared of her finding out he was reading Playboy magazine.. that's the type of wife who would suspect any little thing.

 

whan your constantly under a microscope sometimes you just rebel to make the other person angry. Sounds like he voluntarily told her when he was out with female co-workers... why didn't he cover it up and say he was with a male friend? Just doesn't add up.. If he never took his watch off when he had sex with the wife... why would she assume he took it of with another chick?

 

Maybe he does have a sleazy sense of humor, but I don't read anything about cheating here. But...

 

• 22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives.
  
• 14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives.
  
• Younger people are more likely candidates; in fact, younger women are as likely as younger men to be unfaithful.
  
• 70 percent of married women and 54 percent of married men did not know of their spouses' extramarital activity.
  
• 5 percent of married men and 3 percent of married women reported having sex with someone other than their spouse in the year1997.
  
• 22 percent of men and 14 percent of women admitted to having sexual relations outside their marriage sometime in their past.
  
• 90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong.
  
• 50 percent of Americans say President Clinton's adultery makes his moral standard "about the same as the average married man,'' according to a Time-CNN poll.
  
• 61 percent of Americans thought adultery should not be a crime in the United states; 35 percent thought it should; 4 percent had no opinion.
  
• 17 percent of divorces in the United States are caused by infidelity.
  
• [sIZE=-1]Source: Associated Press[/sIZE]
  
• Up to 37% of men and 22% of women admit to having affairs. Researchers think the vast majority of the millions of people who visit chat rooms, have multiple "special friends”. Dr. Bob Lanier, askbob.com [sIZE=-1][/sIZE]
  
• Recent studies reveal that 45-55% of married women and 50-60% of married men engage in extramarital sex at some time or another during their relationship (Atwood & Schwartz, 2002 - Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy)
  
• Only 46% of men believe that online affairs are adultery. DivorceMag
  
• 80% think it's Ok to talk with a stranger identified as the opposite sex. 75% thinks it's ok to visit an adult site.
  
• About 60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an affair at some point in some marriage "Monogamy Myth", Therapist Peggy Vaugn
  
• About 24 percent of men and 14 percent of women have had sex outside their marriages, according to a Dec. 21, 1998 report in USA Today on a national study by the University of California, San Francisco.
  
• Affairs affect one of every 2.7 couples, according to counselor Janis Abrahms Spring, author of After the Affair,as reported by the Washington Post on March 30, 1999. Ten percent of extramarital affairs last one day, 10 percent last more than one day but less than a month, 50 percent last more than a month but less than a year, but 40 percent last two or more years. Few extramarital affairs last more than four years.
  
• A lesser known fact is that those who divorce rarely marry the person with whom they are having the affair. For example, Dr. Jan Halper’s study of successful men (executives, entrepreneurs, professionals) found that very few men who have affairs divorce their wife and marry their lovers. Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers.
  
• Frank Pittman has found that the divorce rate among those who married their lovers was 75 percent. The reasons for the high divorce rate include: intervention of reality, guilt, expectations, a general distrust of marriage, and a distrust of the affairee.
  
• One-third of divorce litigation is caused by online affairs. This Is An Internet E-Mergency, The Fortino Group
  
• Approximately 70% of time on-line is spent in chat rooms or sending e-mail; of these interactions, the vast majority are romantic in nature. Dr. Michael Adamse, PhD., co-author of Affairs of the Net: The Cybershrinks' Guide to Online Relationships
  
• Because of the anonymity, affordability, and accessibility of Internet sexual resources, the computer can accelerate the transition from "at risk" to "addicted," as well as the progression of sex addiction in those with a history of prior sexual compulsivity. Cooper et al Survey
  
• 8-10 percent of Internet users become hooked on cybersex. Dr. Bob Lanier, askbob.com [sIZE=-1][/sIZE]
  
• Spouses who get hooked on Internet porn are a growing complaint among spouses filing for divorce, according to a survey of 350 divorce attorneys. "If there's dissatisfaction in the existing relationship, the Internet is an easy way for people to scratch the itch," said lawyer J. Lindsey Short, Jr., president of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, which conducted the study.
  
• 57% of people have used the Internet to flirt.
  
• 38% of people have engaged in explicit online sexual conversation and 50% of people have made phone contact with someone they chatted with online.
  
• Evidence proves there is a high correlation between on-line infidelity and subsequent real-time sexual affairs.
  
• Evidence supports the existence of disinhibition, accelerated intimacy, and hyper-sexual online behavior that can easily lead to real-time infidelity
  
• 31% of people have had an online conversation that has led to real-time sex.
  
• It is estimated that 53% of all people will have one or more affairs during their lifetime.
  
• Look at the numbers from Playboy Magazine:
  
• -2 out of 3 women and 3 out of 4 men admit they have sexual thoughts about co-workers.
  
• -86% of men and 81% of women admit they routinely flirt with the opposite sex.
  
• -75% of men and 65% of women admit to having sex with people they work with.
  
• The fact is that human beings are NOT monogamous by nature. That means they cheat.
  
• Experts say that a gut instinct is the most powerful indicator of a cheating lover. Adultery statistics state that 85% of woman who feel their lover is cheating are correct. 50% of men who feel their lover is cheating are right. The first clue is seldom obvious. Typically, it's a "feeling" that something is different.
  
• Cheating spouse statistics confirm that 50 and 70 percent of married men (between 38 and 53 million men) have cheated or will cheat on their wives. One study found that 2/3 of the wives (26 to 36 million women) whose husbands were cheating had no idea their husbands were having an affair - largely because they failed to recognize the telltale signs.
  
• According to Annette Lawson, author of Adultery, published in 1989 by Basic Books. "The various researchers arrive at a general consensus…suggesting that above one-quarter to about one-half of married women have at least one lover after they are married in any given marriage. Married men probably still stray more often than married women—perhaps from 50 percent to 65 percent by the age of forty." According to Maggie Scarf, author of Intimate Partners, first published in 1987 by Random House, re-issued in 1996 by Ballentine.
  
• "Most experts do consider the 'educated guess' that at the present time some 50 to 65 percent of husbands and 45 to 55 percent of wives become extramaritally involved by the age of 40 to be a relatively sound and reasonable one." According to Peggy Vaughan, author of The Monogamy Myth, first published in 1989 by Newmarket Press (third edition published 2003).
  
• Conservative infidelity statistics estimate that “60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an extramarital affair. These figures are even more significant when we consider the total number of marriages involved, since it's unlikely that all the men and women having affairs happen to be married to each other. If even half of the women having affairs (or 20 percent) are married to men not included in the 60 percent having affairs, then at least one partner will have an affair in approximately 80 percent of all marriages. With this many marriages affected, it's unreasonable to think affairs are due only to the failures and shortcomings of individual husbands or wives."
  

Note that the above adultry statistics of the prevalence of affairs were made more than a decade ago; so based on changes in society during the intervening years, the current percentage of the population who have had affairs is probably somewhat HIGHER. For instance, the continuing increase of women in the workplace and the increase of women having affairs on the Internet means that the numbers for women having affairs is probably similar to those for men—about 60%.

 

http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/infidelitystats.html

[LucreziaBorgia]

The tipping point for me was the reactions of his co-workers. One said he was a sleaze and the other said he thought he was dating someone else. People don't just say stuff like that for no reason, and I seriously doubt that either were 'out to get him' - rather just calling like they saw it. If she is hearing this, imagine what she isn't hearing.

 

Eventually she'll get to the bottom of it. I imagine she'll hear about it soon enough.

[LakesideDream]

No "tipping points" for me. I don't hear any clear cut evidence of the husband being a cheater here. Is it possible? Certainly. Is it a probibility? Not so sure.

 

I was taken by suprise when the Playboy mags in the mail comment was made. How on earth can that be an important thing to her? 3 months married, and gasp.... he's "still" getting the mags. Ah... don't magazines come on 1 year subscriptions? The material in Playboy magizines "in the old days" was pretty tame stuff. And.. there really good articles. Many of the worlds foremost authors were published in Playboy. Certainly a 1990 Playboy was not more "racy" than a 2008 Cosmo.

 

I am more on her side with the "looking at porn" for 4 years thing. The first 4 years of their marriage included (second gasp) "porn viewing". She didn't advise how much, or whether it damaged their day to day lives. She was more concerned that he lied about his "viewing" habits. I believe 90% of men would lie about their "porn viewing" especially early in a marriage. That is a private subect.

 

It looks to me like there has been both a lack of communication, and a enviourment of intimidation in this relationship. This guy may have more of a Mommie here than a wife.

[TrustInYourself]

Wow, that is a great amount of statistical data.

 

Thanks for the information. Interesting stuff.

 

I can just tell from the OP that she's very much aware of everything her husband is doing. That's a lot of oversight and that possibly indicates controlling behavior. Your husband could just be reacting to those behaviors.

 

Take a step back and get some professional help. Not for the sake of your marriage per se, but just to get some outside perspective on what he feels and thinks and what a counselor has to say. Good luck and best wishes!

[Billy Bob]

I believe 90% of men would lie about their "porn viewing" especially early in a marriage. That is a private subect.

 

I know I wouldn't want my significant other to know I was addicted to ethnic midget porn.