JamesM Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Simple question. Is it? Is His love to Christians unconditional? Is His love to sinners (non-Christians) unconditional? Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 his love is unconditional, period. Why else would he chose to become human and be mocked and humiliated and crucified all on our behalf, so that we can spend eternity with him? That love is for ALL humankind, not just the "good" people. remember how Jesus would hang out with the taxmen and the prostitutes? It was because he knew they needed to see that God's love was for them, too; he wasn't content to just preach to the choir, so to speak. the best part of His love? That no matter how bad you fvk up, his arms are still open to you, because he thinks that much of you ... Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Which god are we talking about? Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
saraispiel19 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 i thought it was. why did he change his mind? i knew one day we'd all piss him off.. Link to post Share on other sites
Enema Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 The one you don't believe exists. There are thousands of gods that you don't believe exist. I assume this god however is the Christian god of the New Testament? Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Which god are we talking about? El Queso Grande, who created heaven and earth, who is present as Father Son and Holy Spirit, who so loved the world he became incarnate and died for our sins. You know ... Him ... Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 There are thousands of gods that you don't believe exist. I assume this god however is the Christian god of the New Testament?Why bold, "New"? God is the Same in the Old and New......?? Link to post Share on other sites
Enema Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Why bold, "New"? God is the Same in the Old and New......?? Jesus certainly seems to have a different personality in the New Testament than the God of the Old Testament. One might argue that the old testament god does not offer unconditional love. But, then it becomes an argument about the definition of "unconditional love". Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Jesus certainly seems to have a different personality in the New Testament than the God of the Old Testament. One might argue that the old testament god does not offer unconditional love. But, then it becomes an argument about the definition of "unconditional love".Ah.....you see.....you aren't taking Scripture as a whole. Jesus didn't come to change the law(s) of God, rather He came to fulfill the law(s) once and for all. He knew man is in-capable of keeping God's law(s) so He took our place and paid our debt for our inability to satisfy them. That's what I call unconditional love..... Link to post Share on other sites
FleshNBones Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Simple question. Is it? Is His love to Christians unconditional? Is His love to sinners (non-Christians) unconditional?Yes and yes. That doesn't mean God will spare you the rod. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 or unleash a whammy or two to see if you're paying attention! Link to post Share on other sites
Desperado620 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 "El Queso Grande"! LOL quankanne!! Link to post Share on other sites
Author JamesM Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 We are referring to the God of the Bible. And no, His love is NOT unconditional. That is a myth that has been started based on recent psychology ideas. His love may be all encompassing, but it comes with conditions. It may be hard to imagine that such love is offered to humans, but it comes with a condition. And it may be offered to everyone, but the condition is stated plainly. Start with John 3:16... "For God so loved the world that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." The condition is belief. Is His love to Christians unconditional? No, they have believed on Him and now are His. He and they have fulfilled the conditions. Does God love those who have died and never believed in Him? No. His love is not unconditional. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 my understanding of unconditional is that his arms are open for refuge when you most need or desire it. That he doesn't turn anyone away ... That's what I mean by unconditional. Link to post Share on other sites
Enema Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 As I predicted, the thread needs an agreed upon definition of "unconditional love". /horntoot Link to post Share on other sites
Desperado620 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 There is no such thing as unconditional love. Of course your God's love is not unconditional. He gives you his love only if you accept his son, Jesus Christ, as your Lord and Savior. A mother should have unconditional love for her child. Yet how many mothers give up their children every day because they don't want them? How many spouses pledge to love their partners unconditionally until the day they die, but split up due to "irreconsilable differences." Every love has a condition. You just have to find the condition in which your love flourishes. Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 And no, His love is NOT unconditional. That is a myth that has been started based on recent psychology ideas. I take my hat off to you for coming out and saying that so clearly. It's about time some Christian did. Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Since we're talking about the Bible-god, then yes his love is clearly conditional. You can't lovingly cast somebody into an eternity of torment; to say otherwise is just plain stupid. And it doesn't matter if you think we as non-believers chose this fate and therefore god is absolved of any responsibility. Nobody thinks "Hmm, eternal bliss or eternal punishment, I'll choose the punishment!". The choice referred to is poorly framed and ultimately bogus for discussion purposes. Dear sinners, Have fun in this eternal torture chamber I created for you while the rest of us laugh it up in heaven. Kindest regards, God PS - I still love you If any believer of this foolish doctrine can reconcile the aforementioned absurdity, then all the best to you. You have mastered Orwellian double-think in its entirety. Cheers, D. (from deep within the bowels of the Ministry of Love) Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Wow, JamesM, my hat off to you too God is love, He does things for love, but most people don't understand God is also justice, righteousness Jesus Lord is like a door, a wide open door, whoever wish can enter it, no limitation, that means EVERYONE (severe sinns and relative 'good' people). He accepts everyone who comes to Him. After entering the door, out of love, does God gentlely confronts our sinns, so we can change? absolutely yes. All God's doing is for making us to become more like Jesus his son. If necessary God would use his rod to correct us. God's correcting is LOVE. After we made mistakes, will God abandon us? no, God will stay with us, work with us, and confront us, until we conquer this sin, and begin to confront another sin A common mistake people made is that God is unconditional love, you can do whatever you want. this is a road to death. Whatever difficulties we may face, everyone who ask God for helping them to change, God will do. God is like someone eagerly wants to help children to change, not someone sit high and watch who make mistake and condemn them. Big difference. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 but to truly love, you also truly offer forgiveness. Which is why I see God as Mr. Arms Wide Open ... he knows me, he knows my faults yet he also trusts that I know I can turn to him at any time. To say his love is conditional closes that door. I believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light ... yet I also know God's love is much greater than my limited understanding of it, so surely he's equally available to those who reach out to him by other means. Otherwise his sacrifice was only for a chosen few people, not for all of mankind throughout all time. Link to post Share on other sites
Enema Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I wonder if Moose has changed his position about unconditional love, or if he'll return to argue with fellow christians. Don't think I've seen that happen here yet. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I wonder if Moose has changed his position about unconditional love, or if he'll return to argue with fellow christians. Don't think I've seen that happen here yet.I'm not going to argue about it.....I'll just offer my opinion(s).... God doesn't want ANYONE to suffer. He would rather see EVERYONE come to repentance. However, He loves us so... that He allows us to make up our own minds. When I punish my kids, whether it be grounding them to their room or whippin' their butts, it doesn't mean I don't love them does it? Does it mean I have conditions for me to love them......I think NOT! If God FORCED His love on us, it wouldn't be love at all would it? Link to post Share on other sites
FleshNBones Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Is His love to sinners (non-Christians) unconditional?The invitation was exteneded to everyone. They don't get anything if they don't accept. Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 God doesn't want ANYONE to suffer. Then why create Hell? However, He loves us so... that He allows us to make up our own minds. And gives us the opportunity to revel in eternal torture if we make up our minds wrong. When I punish my kids, whether it be grounding them to their room or whippin' their butts, it doesn't mean I don't love them does it? Does it mean I have conditions for me to love them......I think NOT! Being grounded and being thrown into a pit and set on fire forever are two very different things. If we got a rap over the knuckles and let out of Hell after we'd learned our lesson, then and only then might your point make any sense. If God FORCED His love on us, it wouldn't be love at all would it? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Then why create Hell?There wouldn't be a choice now would there? Unconditional love is all about choice isn't it?And gives us the opportunity to revel in eternal torture if we make up our minds wrong.Sometimes I hate what my kids do, and what they decide. That doesn't change the punishment that they know is clearly coming to them. This is only a product of my unconditional love, otherwise I wouldn't care what they do.Being grounded and being thrown into a pit and set on fire forever are two very different things.I totally agree....If we got a rap over the knuckles and let out of Hell after we'd learned our lesson, I've been trying to rap your knuckles for a long time now....then and only then might your point make any sense.As long as your breathing you'll have to face accepting Him, or rejecting Him, you will NEVER be able to ignore Him.That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.It may be for you, but as far as I know, most people like their freedom to love whomever the want.... Link to post Share on other sites
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