Strip Club

[angryyoungman70]

I wonder how many men would be comfortible with their SO getting up and stripping only a "few times a year". ..you know since it would only be in moderation. I suspect not many men would be happy about that.

 

Heck, if my wife wanted to do it as a full-time job, I'd be all for it!!

[rainfall]

ok you are right ... i agree, of course married couples have a right to set standards with their spouse, based on their morals or any other set of ideals.

 

that being said, i think the wife is being unreasonable to have that expectation. i do believe it is reasonable to tell your husband there is no need togo strip clubs every week. However, the odd adventure into a strip club should be tolerated. otherwise it creates a situation where the spouse is forced to lie if he wants to make his own adult decision.

 

 

I think a man is being unreasonable to expect his SO to be ok with him going to a strip club so he can watch other women dance sexually for him. Then he comes home and uses his women to get off to the images he probably still has in his head from the strip club.

 

There is no reason at all that a man should need to go to a strip club unless he is single and then his need to pay for sexual things is ok. He has no one to answer to but himself. However if he is in a relationship with someone he says he loves he should not feel the need to go watch that type of women do sexual things for money.

[Jersey Shortie]

It's because they want their cake and to eat it too Rainfall.

[demrea]

It's because they want their cake and to eat it too Rainfall.

 

and whats wrong with wanting to eat your cake?

[Virgo822]

Wow, there are some pretty rigid and simplistic ideas about human sexuality on display in this thread.

 

Humans are very complex social beings, and our sexuality reflects that complexity. There are gay, straight, bi, high drive, low drive, no drive, fetishes, fantasies, polyamory, and so forth.

 

Very few of us are truly monogamous. True monogamy means you mate for life. If your partner dies, you don't take another. Almost all of us practice serial polygamy. You have a sequence of relationships. If they don't overlap, you might call yourself monogamous. If they do overlap, we call it an affair. But take a step back, and what you find in almost all cases is a series of sexual relationships over the course of a person's life.

 

The idea that all marriages mean one man and one woman find complete sexual satisfaction with each other alone, forever, is not supported by the evidence. Some couples like porn, some couples don't, in some couples only one partner does.

 

Man marries woman and they live in sexual bliss forever more makes a great fairy tale, but it really isn't very useful guidance for real people trying to make real choices in a tough and complex world.

 

Some couples allow visits to strip clubs, generally but by no means always by the man. There's a quite popular club in my area that has handsome young men strip for women. It does a very good business, and most of the customers are middle-aged or older, and married. There's nothing wrong about a night out with the girls, anymore than a night out with the boys.

 

Lies and deception in a relationship are another story. As several posters have pointed out, the real problem here isn't strip clubs, its lies.

 

But even here the rigidity plays a factor. If one partner feels they can dictate simplistic morality on another, there is no real agreement, not much of a relationship, and I could argue that the visit to the strip joint didn't break any agreement, because there never was one, just dictat.

 

In truth I don't know enough about how the original poster and their SO agreed on the rules for their relationship to tell whether there was deception or just a mismatch in expectations.

 

I'm sure glad that my relationship isn't constrained by such unrealistic expectations. We want to be together, but we certainly look at others, because the looking is pleasurable to both of us. She looks in magazines and people watching, I do the same. We don't want to take these people to bed, we just enjoy watching them. People watching from sidewalk cafes is a great pastime that we both enjoy, together.

 

It's not such a big step from watching a beautiful young woman parade herself down the street, wearing clothes and makeup carefully chosen to attract attention and enhance her beauty, to watching a young woman parade on a stage, paid to do so. On some stages she's in a costume, on others in short tap pants and singing, on others she has still less clothes on, but on all the stages she's being looked at, and enjoyed.

 

I don't have any simple answers. I do think a little tolerance and recognition that the fairy-tale version of marriage isn't realistic would go a long way. If the fairy tale were true, this forum wouldn't exist!

[Jennifer26]

I don't have a problem with my husband 'looking' at other women. And obviously to try to restrict him from doing so would be incredibly unrealistic and pointless. He is going to look, where it be a nude magazine, an attractive woman down the street, or a stripper on stage.

 

However, my issue with strip clubs, and the reason I absolutely will not tolerate if he goes to them (notice, I'm not saying he can't - sure he can because he is an adult and he can choose to whatever he wants. However, I don't have to choose to put up with it and he knows my boundaries on this matter) because I have been in a strip club. I have seen first hand what takes place there.

 

Yes, there are women on stage that he can sit back and watch. But there are also women going around, pressuring the men to get lap dances. The men are there, usually drinking, and having gorgeous women approaching them for these dances non-stop. To me it is just a bad situation and one I don't want my husband putting himself into. I also know often guys will pressure one another. The whole combination is just not good.

 

I view a lap dance much differently than I view watching a woman on a stage. There is physical contact going on. Often the stripper is grinding her genitals onto his, placing her breasts in his face, even offering him a nipple to put into his mouth sometimes.

 

This is cheating, no matter how you want to portray it. There is sexual contact taking place.

 

I will not ever be okay with my husband going into an establishment designed to get him horny, drunk and women pressuring him to do this. He might go with the best of intentions, but there is too much temptation and I could see how a man could very easily be swayed.

[angryyoungman70]

Wow, there are some pretty rigid and simplistic ideas about human sexuality on display in this thread.

 

Humans are very complex social beings, and our sexuality reflects that complexity. There are gay, straight, bi, high drive, low drive, no drive, fetishes, fantasies, polyamory, and so forth.

 

Very few of us are truly monogamous. True monogamy means you mate for life. If your partner dies, you don't take another. Almost all of us practice serial polygamy. You have a sequence of relationships. If they don't overlap, you might call yourself monogamous. If they do overlap, we call it an affair. But take a step back, and what you find in almost all cases is a series of sexual relationships over the course of a person's life.

 

The idea that all marriages mean one man and one woman find complete sexual satisfaction with each other alone, forever, is not supported by the evidence. Some couples like porn, some couples don't, in some couples only one partner does.

 

Man marries woman and they live in sexual bliss forever more makes a great fairy tale, but it really isn't very useful guidance for real people trying to make real choices in a tough and complex world.

 

Some couples allow visits to strip clubs, generally but by no means always by the man. There's a quite popular club in my area that has handsome young men strip for women. It does a very good business, and most of the customers are middle-aged or older, and married. There's nothing wrong about a night out with the girls, anymore than a night out with the boys.

 

Lies and deception in a relationship are another story. As several posters have pointed out, the real problem here isn't strip clubs, its lies.

 

But even here the rigidity plays a factor. If one partner feels they can dictate simplistic morality on another, there is no real agreement, not much of a relationship, and I could argue that the visit to the strip joint didn't break any agreement, because there never was one, just dictat.

 

In truth I don't know enough about how the original poster and their SO agreed on the rules for their relationship to tell whether there was deception or just a mismatch in expectations.

 

I'm sure glad that my relationship isn't constrained by such unrealistic expectations. We want to be together, but we certainly look at others, because the looking is pleasurable to both of us. She looks in magazines and people watching, I do the same. We don't want to take these people to bed, we just enjoy watching them. People watching from sidewalk cafes is a great pastime that we both enjoy, together.

 

It's not such a big step from watching a beautiful young woman parade herself down the street, wearing clothes and makeup carefully chosen to attract attention and enhance her beauty, to watching a young woman parade on a stage, paid to do so. On some stages she's in a costume, on others in short tap pants and singing, on others she has still less clothes on, but on all the stages she's being looked at, and enjoyed.

 

I don't have any simple answers. I do think a little tolerance and recognition that the fairy-tale version of marriage isn't realistic would go a long way. If the fairy tale were true, this forum wouldn't exist!

 

Very well put!

[Virgo822]

Jennifer, that was very well said. You identified the real reason for concern, which is not watching naked women, but physical contact.

 

Fair enough, and since you express yourself so well, I can imagine that your husband understands and hopefully agrees with your wishes.

 

FWIW, I've been to strip clubs many times, but never had a lap dance, or table dance. Putting a dollar bill in a g-string is as close as I've ever come to physical contact. I never wanted any more. I enjoy the looking. Touching is between me and my wife.

 

I've also been to clubs only once or twice in the 10+ years we've been married; being happy at home goes a long, long way. That's another point that may be relevant to this discussion.

[Virgo822]

Very well put!

 

Thank you!

[rainfall]

But even here the rigidity plays a factor. If one partner feels they can dictate simplistic morality on another, there is no real agreement, not much of a relationship, and I could argue that the visit to the strip joint didn't break any agreement, because there never was one, just dictat.

 

 

 

In my relationship if I feel that a strip club is not a place my SO needs to visit then I am going to let him know that. If feels that seeing those women parade around naked is more important then being in a relationship with me then he is free to go. I will no longer stay if he goes though.

 

I agree with jennifer that a strip club is a place that is trying to get guys drunk and horny. They have naked women walking around trying to get these guys to buy dances from them. I just don't think that this is a type of place a committed man needs to be at.

[Jersey Shortie]

Very few of us are truly monogamous. True monogamy means you [COLOR=#990000]mate for life[/COLOR].

 

I looked up "monogamy" and the only decription it gives is two people who remain in a relationship with only each other. You can be truely monogamous to one partner, have that partner die, and have another person to be truly monogmous with. I also looked up the description of "polygamy" and they do not define it as having relationships with different people over a course of time, which is how you described "polygamy". The book discription said it is having romantic relationships with more then one person at the same time. So I don't think your ideas are standard to what how most people would define it or even how the book defines it.

 

 

 

Man marries woman and they live in sexual bliss forever more makes a great fairy tale, but it really isn't very useful guidance for real people trying to make real choices in a tough and complex world.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that women live in sexual bliss forever. But it takes work. And going out side to get your needs met is about that person, not about working on the relationship or working to make the relationship better. It's selfish.

 

There's nothing wrong about a night out with the girls, anymore than a night out with the boys.

 

Oh I completely agree! But a boys night out or a girls night out doesn't have to include titalation from members of the opposite sex. If you are going out with the boys or girls, are you going out to be with your friends or going out to be titilated by other people? If it's the former, you have to ask yourself why you need that.

 

 

 

I'm sure glad that my relationship isn't constrained by such unrealistic expectations.

 

I do think it's unrealistic to expect that your parter will never look at another person and be attracted again. But I also think it's unrealistic to put yourself in purposely sexual situations and expect yoru SO to be comfortable with that.

 

 

 

It's not such a big step from watching a beautiful young woman parade herself down the street, wearing clothes and makeup carefully chosen to attract attention and enhance her beauty, to watching a young woman parade on a stage, paid to do so. On some stages she's in a costume, on others in short tap pants and singing, on others she has still less clothes on, but on all the stages she's being looked at, and enjoyed.

 

Then basically men are never loyal ? Their always thinkign about what they don't have and women can never win with them I guess. I will say that I HATE when I see older men looking at me when they are with their SO. I look down on him for it and I feel sorry for his wife to be with such a man.

 

More to the point, the difference in the situations you described is that a man walking past a woman on the street didn't choose to be there and didn't choose for her to be there. A man going to a strip club where the women are wearing even less clothes made the choice to put himself in that situations. That's a huge difference.

 

 

 

I don't have any simple answers. I do think a little tolerance and recognition that the fairy-tale version of marriage isn't realistic would go a long way. If the fairy tale were true, this forum wouldn't exist!

 

Doesn't tolerance work both ways? Perhaps women have to be more understanding but perhaps men need to be as well as to why these actions can cause doubts and hurt ina woman. That is what would be realistic. It really isn't that women expect a fairy -tale version. But I think men are expecting their own fairy-tale version if they think they can put themselves in sexual situatiosn with other women and that their so should be happy and comfortable with that.

[Zolar]

I am a professional adult entertainer and I do strip-o-grams/bachelor/birthday parties on the weekend and the occasional office party. I used to be a career stripper in the clubs coast to coast. The love of my life is the manager of a strip club. People in the biz stick together because there is no way you could understand looking in at it from the outside. You just couldn't. (We have to deal with a lot of assumptions from outsiders, ie., I'm a whore, he's a pimp/drug dealer, he's gay, he's getting blow jobs from the dancers in the dressing room, etc. When people don't know about something they leap to all kinds of outrageous conclusions.)

 

To the original poster: if your man doesn't make a habit of going to these places and if the places he is going to are clean entertainment places (not the lap dance kind of places) then I wouldn't see a problem. In most places the night club business is clean and well-regulated for the safety of the dancers. They usually have good security and physical contact is limited or not permitted.

 

So... it would depend on the kind of place he went and if he had a lap dance or not. I've done lap dancing. It's gross. I hated it. And, it's dangerous. Most of my career, I worked on stage and strictly on stage. We had little to no contact with the clientele. Entertainers are JUST entertainers.

 

Now, if he went to a whorehouse, I'd be concerned.

 

Generally speaking, strip clubs are not whore houses and the women who work there are entertainers and only entertainers. There are exceptions - one glaring exception is in Houston, TX where the entertainers were run out of town years ago and the club owners were forced to hire street walkers.

 

I'd be concerned about he lying, but if you are the kind of person who freaks out over nothing, he was probably just trying to save you from freaking out for no reason.

 

Zolar

[Jersey Shortie]

I've done lap dancing. It's gross. I hated it. And, it's dangerous. Most of my career, I worked on stage and strictly on stage.

 

How many of the women that did lap dances enjoyed it, was netural to it, or was disgusted by it and did it anyway?

 

 

 

 

I'd be concerned about he lying, but if you are the kind of person who freaks out over nothing, he was probably just trying to save you from freaking out for no reason.

 

Regardless of the reason he lied, it's wrong. He is not giving her control to make her own choices. Just because one parter would get upset about somethign the other partner doesn't think is a big deal, doesn't mean the partner that would get upset is in the wrong or that the action was not infact a big deal. Just saying because it annoys me when people justfy why a man lies and down plays how a woman could feel about the man she loves visiting strip joints.

[Zolar]

How many of the women that did lap dances enjoyed it, was netural to it, or was disgusted by it and did it anyway?

 

 

 

 

Generally, we feel two ways about the patrons of these laces. It is a mixture of gratitude and disgust. Gratitude becuae they are our customers and they keep us in business. Disgust because most of the entertainers regard the men who come in those places as degenerates and perverts. That's because the majority are degenerates and perverts - they have problems. A lot of them have a hidden hatred of women.

 

It's different for me because we are bothin the business. He also knows what those men are like and is careful not to b ehave like one of them.

 

 

 

 

Regardless of the reason he lied, it's wrong. He is not giving her control to make her own choices. Just because one parter would get upset about somethign the other partner doesn't think is a big deal, doesn't mean the partner that would get upset is in the wrong or that the action was not infact a big deal. Just saying because it annoys me when people justfy why a man lies and down plays how a woman could feel about the man she loves visiting strip joints.

 

Well, I'm a woman and I've had to lie to men occasionally about things just so they don't upset themselves for no reason.

[Jennifer26]

Zolar - I don't know of many strip clubs where lap dances aren't offered. All of the ones around here offer them, and they can get pretty raunchy.

 

And I think lying is wrong, period. Even if you think your mate has no reason to be upset by your actions. When you lie, and they eventually find out, you really kill any trust.

 

I would never intentionally do something I know would upset my spouse. If I felt he was being unreasonable, I would try to talk to him about it and hope I could clarify things so he wouldn't need to feel threatened, come up perhaps with a compromise or just not do it if it comes down to that.

 

If it is going to hurt and upset my husband, it just isn't worth doing.

[demrea]

lap dances are not allowed in my city (calgary). dancers arent even allowed to touch each other on stage (even non sexually). they cant for instance lock hands together.

 

some silly city hall by laws.

[annieo]

I'm in Canada, too (Toronto, don't hate me Calgary:)) and lap dance are allowed. In fact, there is a club (that advertises in a local weekly mag) that not only has lap dances/lesbian shows, but afterwards, you can go for a nice relaxing massage with your private dancer. Or get your lap "dance" in a stretch limo parked on the premises, although how a girl is going to "dance" in a limo strains credulity a little. A horizontal mambo, I assume.

 

My h was in Atlanta when he had his "table" dances (that he lied about), and according to the state/city laws (not sure which), lap dancing is illegal. Called the club, and that is the official party line. But according to my h, there was a fairly pricey VIP section, where you could get lap dances (and god knows what else). And this was a "high class" club, not a dump. But this all comes from my h, the liar.

 

The days of pasties and burlesque are over in most clubs. I've been to a few, some nicer than others, and it's basically the same sex menu in all of them. Some places are just a little more discreet than others.

[demrea]

I'm in Canada, too (Toronto, don't hate me Calgary:)) and lap dance are allowed. In fact, there is a club (that advertises in a local weekly mag) that not only has lap dances/lesbian shows, but afterwards, you can go for a nice relaxing massage with your private dancer. Or get your lap "dance" in a stretch limo parked on the premises, although how a girl is going to "dance" in a limo strains credulity a little. A horizontal mambo, I assume.

 

My h was in Atlanta when he had his "table" dances (that he lied about), and according to the state/city laws (not sure which), lap dancing is illegal. Called the club, and that is the official party line. But according to my h, there was a fairly pricey VIP section, where you could get lap dances (and god knows what else). And this was a "high class" club, not a dump. But this all comes from my h, the liar.

 

The days of pasties and burlesque are over in most clubs. I've been to a few, some nicer than others, and it's basically the same sex menu in all of them. Some places are just a little more discreet than others.

 

i have been to TOronto many times .... heard about the Landing Strip near the airport, but never had a chance to see it.

 

In Calgary, there are no VIP sections. Well not for the public, I suppose if you are a real VIP, you get what you want anyhow.

 

eh ... off topic now?

[annieo]

i have been to TOronto many times .... heard about the Landing Strip near the airport, but never had a chance to see it.

 

In Calgary, there are no VIP sections. Well not for the public, I suppose if you are a real VIP, you get what you want anyhow.

 

eh ... off topic now?

 

I fear that this is turning into hoserchat.com.eh.

 

Still going off topic, I wonder if things are a little more conservative in Calgary because, well, things are a little more conservative out there? I've heard that Montreal is off the hook. Eastern as opposed to Western Canada. You know what I'm talking about demrea.

 

Back to the thread, there are obviously a lot of different rules/laws, and how strictly they are enforced varies from club to club, and who the clientele is, how much coin they have.

 

My point is, it sucks to be the lied-to little wifey at home. It probably also sucks to be the girl who makes a living grinding on unfamiliar and sometimes, disgusting and weird men.

 

I still remember seeing napkin-man. The dancer placed a napkin on his lap before his lap dance. Don't know if he wanted to keep his pants clean from himself or her. She was the one who insisted, though. Yuck! Not enough money in the world to entice me to do that.

[angryyoungman70]

I fear that this is turning into hoserchat.com.eh.

 

Still going off topic, I wonder if things are a little more conservative in Calgary because, well, things are a little more conservative out there? I've heard that Montreal is off the hook. Eastern as opposed to Western Canada. You know what I'm talking about demrea.

 

Nope. I too reside in the "City of Cows" and have traveled extensively throughout N America. Last time I visited Vancouver, my buddy and I got together and his boss was all into the strip clubs, and the lap dances at these clubs. True, while Calgary and Edmonton do not have VIP lounges and lap dances, I don't think the same could be said for some strip clubs in BC.

[Jersey Shortie]

My point is, it sucks to be the lied-to little wifey at home. It probably also sucks to be the girl who makes a living grinding on unfamiliar and sometimes, disgusting and weird men.

 

I still remember seeing napkin-man. The dancer placed a napkin on his lap before his lap dance. Don't know if he wanted to keep his pants clean from himself or her. She was the one who insisted, though. Yuck! Not enough money in the world to entice me to do that.

 

Yeah, that is gross! Something about the whole set-up between the stripper and the patron is depressing and sad. It's men and women both submitting to the worse common denomiator in themselves. With men it's the promise of sex, with women it's the promise of the money. Neither is attractive in the opposite sex when expoited. So I don't get why men think they can visit strip clubs and their wife/girlfriend should be all smiles and not turned off by this even though it's a pretty gross. If you have a woman who loves you at home, to go to strip joints to get your kicks is like a slap in her face.

[Jennifer26]

Yeah, that is gross! Something about the whole set-up between the stripper and the patron is depressing and sad. It's men and women both submitting to the worse common denomiator in themselves. With men it's the promise of sex, with women it's the promise of the money. Neither is attractive in the opposite sex when expoited. So I don't get why men think they can visit strip clubs and their wife/girlfriend should be all smiles and not turned off by this even though it's a pretty gross. If you have a woman who loves you at home, to go to strip joints to get your kicks is like a slap in her face.

I agree with this 100%.

[fadinglove]

I have accepted the situation with the strip club. But now over a month later I guess I am seeing that there are more problems than just that with our relationship. I am at a crossroads and don't know what to do. It's frustrating and extremely emotional.

[Jersey Shortie]

That's because you are sacrficing what you think you deserve and what you need from a man. You can't keep going on like that or you are going to end up resentful and hurt. There are lots of men out there that won't put you through the same ringer.