What do I do?

[Joe]

Hi everyone...I'm new here, but I need some input on my situation. It is similar to the "I miss my ex" post from before...but with a different twist.

 

My ex-girlfriend and I were together for nearly 5 years, spending every day (almost) together and were extremely close. About 2 years ago, we broke up; it was a mutually-agreed upon break up, with her moving to the East Coast (Massachussetts) to focus on her career after graduating university. I didn't plan on moving with her as for several months before her graduation, I had felt taken advantage of, and unhappy in the relationship. I had offered her my help achieving her goal of graduating with a university degree (including me helping her/doing some of her assignments), and as graduation approached, I didn't feel as though she cared that I had helped her, or that I had supported her. Basically, I felt used. I actually had to push my way through the crowd that surrounded her on grad. day just so I could have my picture taken with her.

 

So, she left and I stayed, feeling bitter, lonely and sad at the same time. After six months or so, I began to feel better and started casually dating again.

 

That was almost 2 years ago..In the last few months, I've been dating this girl that I really like (not sure if I love her yet or not), and who I like spending time with. I can tell that this girl really loves me, from all the attention she gives me.

 

My problem is, my ex and I have been exchanging emails lately, and my feelings for her are coming back. I'm not sure that they ever left, as from the time her and I broke up, I avoided thinking about her as it made me sad and emotional...my feelings coming to the surface. My ex still has feelings for me and wants me back; she tells me in all of the email and letters she sends me. She is still single, and has been unhappy with all the men she's met.

 

So, what should I do? I really like this girl I'm seeing now, but I honestly have stronger feelings for my ex girlfriend who lives across the continent.

 

Help,

 

Joe in Portland, Oregon

[Nicky]

Hi everyone...I'm new here, but I need some input on my situation. It is similar to the "I miss my ex" post from before...but with a different twist. My ex-girlfriend and I were together for nearly 5 years, spending every day (almost) together and were extremely close. About 2 years ago, we broke up; it was a mutually-agreed upon break up, with her moving to the East Coast (Massachussetts) to focus on her career after graduating university. I didn't plan on moving with her as for several months before her graduation, I had felt taken advantage of, and unhappy in the relationship. I had offered her my help achieving her goal of graduating with a university degree (including me helping her/doing some of her assignments), and as graduation approached, I didn't feel as though she cared that I had helped her, or that I had supported her. Basically, I felt used. I actually had to push my way through the crowd that surrounded her on grad. day just so I could have my picture taken with her. So, she left and I stayed, feeling bitter, lonely and sad at the same time. After six months or so, I began to feel better and started casually dating again. That was almost 2 years ago..In the last few months, I've been dating this girl that I really like (not sure if I love her yet or not), and who I like spending time with. I can tell that this girl really loves me, from all the attention she gives me. My problem is, my ex and I have been exchanging emails lately, and my feelings for her are coming back. I'm not sure that they ever left, as from the time her and I broke up, I avoided thinking about her as it made me sad and emotional...my feelings coming to the surface. My ex still has feelings for me and wants me back; she tells me in all of the email and letters she sends me. She is still single, and has been unhappy with all the men she's met. So, what should I do? I really like this girl I'm seeing now, but I honestly have stronger feelings for my ex girlfriend who lives across the continent. Help, Joe in Portland, Oregon

Hi Joe,

 

Well we all make errors, and it sounded as though your GF neglected you a bit. But I think we've all made that mistake, and it sounds like you've patched up your differences.

 

Your feelings are stronger for her than the current girl, so really the only problem that remains is the distance.

 

Long- distance relationships are soooooooo tough, but I don't think you have anything to lose.

 

Go for it!

[Shirley]

Hi everyone...I'm new here, but I need some input on my situation. It is similar to the "I miss my ex" post from before...but with a different twist. My ex-girlfriend and I were together for nearly 5 years, spending every day (almost) together and were extremely close. About 2 years ago, we broke up; it was a mutually-agreed upon break up, with her moving to the East Coast (Massachussetts) to focus on her career after graduating university. I didn't plan on moving with her as for several months before her graduation, I had felt taken advantage of, and unhappy in the relationship. I had offered her my help achieving her goal of graduating with a university degree (including me helping her/doing some of her assignments), and as graduation approached, I didn't feel as though she cared that I had helped her, or that I had supported her. Basically, I felt used. I actually had to push my way through the crowd that surrounded her on grad. day just so I could have my picture taken with her. So, she left and I stayed, feeling bitter, lonely and sad at the same time. After six months or so, I began to feel better and started casually dating again. That was almost 2 years ago..In the last few months, I've been dating this girl that I really like (not sure if I love her yet or not), and who I like spending time with. I can tell that this girl really loves me, from all the attention she gives me. My problem is, my ex and I have been exchanging emails lately, and my feelings for her are coming back. I'm not sure that they ever left, as from the time her and I broke up, I avoided thinking about her as it made me sad and emotional...my feelings coming to the surface. My ex still has feelings for me and wants me back; she tells me in all of the email and letters she sends me. She is still single, and has been unhappy with all the men she's met. So, what should I do? I really like this girl I'm seeing now, but I honestly have stronger feelings for my ex girlfriend who lives across the continent. Help, Joe in Portland, Oregon

 

Hi!

 

You are in love with your ex. What you need to know is whether or not she is in love with you. And to me it doesn't seem like she is. I don't know the whole situation though. But she chose her carreer over you. If she were in love with you, she would being willing to give up her carreer for you. I'm not saying that she should, but she needs to think about her feelings. Love is the most powerful feeling in the world. And two people who are in love with each other decide together what is best for both of them. So, if she doesn't feel the same way about you, then it's okay. Those are her feelings. But you need to go on with your life. And it will be very hard for you to do that if you stay in contact with her. Also, if she isn't in love with you, she never will be. That type of love comes naturally. It isn't something that can be learned.

[mmmm]

Joe,

 

I can empathise with you fully, at the situation you find yourself in is difficult. I know because I am going through a similar situation myself. I am not going to say that it is impossible for a long distance relationship to work, but take it from me it, since I moved away from my other half (one country to another) i have found that my life and priorities have changed. You meet new people and develop a new life, and i have found myself caught, rather hopelessly, between the two, wanting to embrace the new whole-heartedly but scared to break with the old. The old seems comfortable, you know the parameters, whereas the new can be scary and intimidating, but we have to realise that there comes a time when we have to start looking forward. Don't make the mistake that I seem to have done, by spurning someone who loves you for the sake of going back to the past. I am learning, to my cost that life is about taking leaps into the dark and unknown, not about harking back to the past, searching for some lost ideal. Giving up the past can be such a wrench. I know how un-eniviable your situation is, all too well. I just hope you get to make the right choice. Be sure of your own mativations and those of your ex-girlfriend, because the choices you make stay with you for life,

 

good luck

Hi everyone...I'm new here, but I need some input on my situation. It is similar to the "I miss my ex" post from before...but with a different twist. My ex-girlfriend and I were together for nearly 5 years, spending every day (almost) together and were extremely close. About 2 years ago, we broke up; it was a mutually-agreed upon break up, with her moving to the East Coast (Massachussetts) to focus on her career after graduating university. I didn't plan on moving with her as for several months before her graduation, I had felt taken advantage of, and unhappy in the relationship. I had offered her my help achieving her goal of graduating with a university degree (including me helping her/doing some of her assignments), and as graduation approached, I didn't feel as though she cared that I had helped her, or that I had supported her. Basically, I felt used. I actually had to push my way through the crowd that surrounded her on grad. day just so I could have my picture taken with her. So, she left and I stayed, feeling bitter, lonely and sad at the same time. After six months or so, I began to feel better and started casually dating again. That was almost 2 years ago..In the last few months, I've been dating this girl that I really like (not sure if I love her yet or not), and who I like spending time with. I can tell that this girl really loves me, from all the attention she gives me. My problem is, my ex and I have been exchanging emails lately, and my feelings for her are coming back. I'm not sure that they ever left, as from the time her and I broke up, I avoided thinking about her as it made me sad and emotional...my feelings coming to the surface. My ex still has feelings for me and wants me back; she tells me in all of the email and letters she sends me. She is still single, and has been unhappy with all the men she's met. So, what should I do? I really like this girl I'm seeing now, but I honestly have stronger feelings for my ex girlfriend who lives across the continent. Help, Joe in Portland, Oregon

[Sula]

Hi Joe,

 

It is difficult to establish new intimate relationships when you are still holing on to past relationships. The only way to move on is to get closure. But you seem to be honestly attached to this girl. Be sure that the woman you are attracted to again is the real woman, not some image of her that you have in your mind.

 

My father told me that when you find something that feels true and right and you love that other person, you should hold on to it, because you never know if you'll be able to find that true love again in someone else. As long as you are entering into this exchange without preset ideas of what things should be like, you should be alright. I hope everything works out for you!

[Shirley Mae]

Hi Joe,

 

Well I'm in the same situation as you, except i'm the new woman. The guy I was seeing is still involved with his girlfriend, so whatever you do, don't juggle 2 women. It will hurt both of them, whether you tell one about the other or not.

 

From past and present experience, I've noticed that the guys always choose the old girlfriend, due to a the comfort thing, and then 3 - 6 mo. later, the guy realizes he's miserable and has made the biggest mistake of his life. They then realize that they can't recreate the past and they leave the old girlfriend. Then they try to go back to the other girl (the newer girlfriend - or otherwoman as I like to call it) and they beg for her back, telling her that they love her and now know for sure that they want to be with her. In the meantime, she (the other woman) has mourned, cried, built up resentment and then finally accepted his original decision to leave her for the old girlfriend. She now has moved on and maybe even has found another, but all she knows is she doesn't want the guy back. She didn't go through the entire mourning process for nothing.

 

So Joe, before you make any decisions, you'd better think things through and don't play with their hearts or their heads. Also, be a man and don't drag everything out. Try to make a decision, so as not to hurt either girl. I find honesty is the best way to deal with this, although there are many people who don't believe that and dig themselves into a big whole, until everyone hates and resents him... I mean... that person. If you could only realize that you're not still in love with your ex, because you were able to feel for someone new. The feelings you have for this new girl are pure without any past anger or animosity. There is too much anger and regret in the past with the old girlfriend, that you sound like you'll have a hard time getting over - so I'm suggesting you play it smart and stick with the new girl and keep the old girl in the past where she belongs. I'm telling you right now, you will regret losing the new girl. My ex boyfriend does. He kept going back out with his old girlfriend behind my back. He finally broke up with me to be with her. Then realized he made a mistake. It's six years later and he's still trying to get me back. Nothing on earth could make me take him back.

 

Good luck with your decision. I hope everything works out for the best.

[Tony T]

Hey, Joe: "She is still single and has been unhappy with all the men she has met." That's a quote from YOU. Well, you are one of those men. This girl is NOT going to be happy with anyone. I can't believe you would want to revisit what had been an unhappy situation for you. What a USER this girl is...and you admit you know that. (You helped her get through college and she didn't even give you priority at her graduation??? What a YUK!!! She is emailing you right now because there is nobody in her life. The minute there is someone, that Email will stop abruptly...you have my unconditional guarantee. If you do not care about the lady that shows you much love now, let her go and seek out someone where there is mutual attraction and love. Going back to an old relationship in which you were unhappy and used to the MAX is the same as putting your left hand on a burner after you burned the right one. In the majority of the cases, people don't change and things go sour all over again, just like the first time. The purpose of dating is to see if someone is right for us. When we find out it ain't so, we move on. Unless you are a very slow learner, get with the program. I wish you great luck because I think you deserve the best...and a whole lot better than that gal that USED you and wants to USE you again if you let her.

[Robbie]

Shirley Mae is right. It is time to take a stand and be a man, as I am sure she knows all too well, to hark back to the past, you can lose sometning that could lie in the future. Don't hark back to the past. I am in a situation where I have to stand up to what my future holds and destroy someone's perception of me because I have found and seemingly lost the new. Lost someone who loves me for me and someone i love to the very ends of the earth. Don't turn your back on the future, don't make my mistake, you may rue it for an eternity. Grab the future, Joe, grab it for all you are worth, for your sake don't go back to the past.

Hi Joe, Well I'm in the same situation as you, except i'm the new woman. The guy I was seeing is still involved with his girlfriend, so whatever you do, don't juggle 2 women. It will hurt both of them, whether you tell one about the other or not. From past and present experience, I've noticed that the guys always choose the old girlfriend, due to a the comfort thing, and then 3 - 6 mo. later, the guy realizes he's miserable and has made the biggest mistake of his life. They then realize that they can't recreate the past and they leave the old girlfriend. Then they try to go back to the other girl (the newer girlfriend - or otherwoman as I like to call it) and they beg for her back, telling her that they love her and now know for sure that they want to be with her. In the meantime, she (the other woman) has mourned, cried, built up resentment and then finally accepted his original decision to leave her for the old girlfriend. She now has moved on and maybe even has found another, but all she knows is she doesn't want the guy back. She didn't go through the entire mourning process for nothing. So Joe, before you make any decisions, you'd better think things through and don't play with their hearts or their heads. Also, be a man and don't drag everything out. Try to make a decision, so as not to hurt either girl. I find honesty is the best way to deal with this, although there are many people who don't believe that and dig themselves into a big whole, until everyone hates and resents him... I mean... that person. If you could only realize that you're not still in love with your ex, because you were able to feel for someone new. The feelings you have for this new girl are pure without any past anger or animosity. There is too much anger and regret in the past with the old girlfriend, that you sound like you'll have a hard time getting over - so I'm suggesting you play it smart and stick with the new girl and keep the old girl in the past where she belongs. I'm telling you right now, you will regret losing the new girl. My ex boyfriend does. He kept going back out with his old girlfriend behind my back. He finally broke up with me to be with her. Then realized he made a mistake. It's six years later and he's still trying to get me back. Nothing on earth could make me take him back. Good luck with your decision. I hope everything works out for the best.

[Shirley Mae]

Robbie,

 

it sounds like you need advice just as much as Joe. If you don't mind, I would like to throw my 2 cents in.

 

You need to talk to this girl, because if she's anything like me, she's overanalyzing the situation and realizing that everything you've said and have done for her in the past, was nothing but a lie. The mind can do that over time... manipulate things that were once beautiful into something that is false, ugly and poisonous, especially when the guy doesn't seem to be putting in any effort to rectify anything. Afterall, actions speak louder than words. She may be starting to think that everything you've said to her in the past, was just a lie. For example, making sure everything of hers is out of the house/apt., before his old girlfriend shows up. That right there would show that he has every intention of letting his old girlfriend come to the house/apt., even if the new girlfriend was opposed to it. That would tell the new girl (from your actions) that you've made your decision to stay with the old one. You know, stuff like that might be going through her mind. And if you think that's bad, you should see what else she may be starting to think, that you wouldn't even think she could be thinking.

 

Time with silence will destroy your relationship with this new girl, unless you want to give her a labotomy, so she'll stop thinking. But since that's not really a good option, you better try to rectify your situation some other way. Remember the longer you wait, the worse it will become.

 

Good luck.

[Robbie]

So, here I stand in a situation that I no longer feel I can control, and my emotions are ripping me apart. You are right Shirley Mae, she does have a propensity to over analyse siuations, but it is I who have created this monster. Laura is a fantastic woman, but on tuesday when se said she had had enough of me i took her to her word.

 

I want to pick up the phone and talk to her, try and explain, reason, my situation but words would seem to be hollow. I have rehearsed telling the old girlfriend that it is over a million times, maybe if i was a cold, calculating bastard it would be easier just to pick up the phone up and say, "sorry, great times and all but i have met someone else so you and your friends cannot stay at my place, i don't ever want to see you again." it's easy when you say it over and over in your head, delivring it to someone is just a whole different kettle of fish. Why i have procrastinated so long is a mystery to me, why i would seemingly turn my back on the most wonderful person to enter my life, i cannot explain. I feel so alone, i have lost my best friend, about the only person in my life i have ever been able to talk, who has ever understood me. You are right i feel that the talking is now done, though i want open dialogue with her, she knows what i am going through, she been in my exact situation herself and it is time for actions to be taken to prove how much i want to be with her. I don't want her to think that my intentions towards her were anything but honorable, someone who isn't serious doesn't drag themselvs all the way across town at 10:30 at night just to make sure she gets home from rehersal safe and sound. Though iknow i have tested her patience to the limit in recent weeks with my procrastinating over my past, i do hope she knows in her heart that everything i said to her was the god's honest truth, on my sister's grave i swear it. I can swear on nothing more profound than that, because she know what that means to me.

 

I cannot put into words how much i miss her, though three sleepless nights and an inability to eat anything is physical testament to how i seem to be falling apart at this moment. The clothes, i do not know what i was thinking about. I guess i figured having left me , she would have wanted them back, however much i wanted to keep them in my closet. Some tangible reminder to haunt and taunt me about what i was in the process of destroying. I still can't bring myself to take her from around my sink, while it is there i feel like i still have a piece of her with me. The more you love someone the more it hurts, if you don't care about someone it's easy to move on, put it to one side not get too upset over it, but when you deeply love and then feel spurned and cheated, lied to ,you feel resentment build, i know, i have been in her shoes and knowing how much it hurts i can only think of myself as he most insensitive bastard on the face of the earth for doing it to someone else.

 

I never came here expecting to fall so hopelessy in love with someone, i don't think anyone ever does expect to find true love and happiness, i guess i was content with what i had at the time, but i have been shown what i can have, how really happy you can be. I don't know Shirley Mae, I convince myself i can be strong, pick up the phone and do what i have to do, but i always find a reason not too. don't want to ruin it for her friends is my current one. Weak, i know, but i wonder how selfish can i be? I am not adept at taking things for myself, giving myself what I want emotionally because i know it is going to hurt another, whilst all along I am hurting the one who is dearest to my heart. This isn't rhetoric, this is me talking from what tiny piece of soul i may posses. I know i have to grasp this issue and do what i have to do, i know who i want be with, i just feel like time and tide are loaded against me. She always asks, even before we became involved, "do you want to get married?", and how many times have i wanted to say "yes". these aren't the words of someone who is not serious about making it work, about being together and making themost of what life has to offer, but i have to get past this fear of picking up the phone and doing what needs to be done. i do need to talk to her, want to hear her voice again, i want to stop feeling this unbearable pain, stop yearning the......., well i am not going down that road........The path to true love is littered with obsticles, and i have reached the biggest one.

 

"To sleep, perchance not to dream" I am so lost Shirl, so utterly, utterly lost....

Robbie, it sounds like you need advice just as much as Joe. If you don't mind, I would like to throw my 2 cents in. You need to talk to this girl, because if she's anything like me, she's overanalyzing the situation and realizing that everything you've said and have done for her in the past, was nothing but a lie. The mind can do that over time... manipulate things that were once beautiful into something that is false, ugly and poisonous, especially when the guy doesn't seem to be putting in any effort to rectify anything. Afterall, actions speak louder than words. She may be starting to think that everything you've said to her in the past, was just a lie. For example, making sure everything of hers is out of the house/apt., before his old girlfriend shows up. That right there would show that he has every intention of letting his old girlfriend come to the house/apt., even if the new girlfriend was opposed to it. That would tell the new girl (from your actions) that you've made your decision to stay with the old one. You know, stuff like that might be going through her mind. And if you think that's bad, you should see what else she may be starting to think, that you wouldn't even think she could be thinking. Time with silence will destroy your relationship with this new girl, unless you want to give her a labotomy, so she'll stop thinking. But since that's not really a good option, you better try to rectify your situation some other way. Remember the longer you wait, the worse it will become.

 

Good luck.

[Shirley Mae]

You're right. She's been through this before and you know what...Because she wasn't able to break up with the old boyfriend, who she had realized she didn't love anymore, she lost the new boyfriend, who she had developed strong feelings for. He ended up marrying another woman. All the things that are going through your head right now, were going through her head. Ending it with someone is the most difficult thing in the world to do and everyone who has done it, feels no differently than you do. You say, you don't want to tell your girlfriend and her friend they can't stay with you. Well it shouldn't even have come down to this, with her coming here. The fact that it has gotten to this point and something hadn't been said to her sooner, that's what the problem is. If you think this other woman is going to sit back while you're sleeping in the same bed with this girl, living with her for a week and a 1/2 and Lord knows what else...then you're insane. You're asking way too much of her. You PROMISED, that Kenya was it. You said you'd tell her and now she's coming here. I'm so sure that she has asked you if you were dating someone else, judging from the way you've been distant from her (supposedly distant - if it's even true.) So what do you expect the other woman to do? Sit back and not say anything? NO WAY!!!! You can tell your girlfriend the truth before she comes here. At least let her know. Supposedly the ticket was given to her, so it's not costing money. And if it is, it's her fault for excepting the ticket without asking you first, or maybe she did ask you and you gave her the OK. Or isn't convenient that you might even be going out of town the same week that she's supposed to be coming here. Is it that you two (and the friend) are going on a vacation here in the states, and you'll all be gone for the week? She doesn't know what to believe, except that you've been lying to your girlfriend, why not to her. You've been in pain, do you even know what she's been going through? Thinking you're wonderful and the most incredible person she's ever met, and then finding out you're nothing but a total liar and a snake. You haven't told the old girlfriend about the new one, because you're concerned about her, you're concerned about you and how it's going to affect you. If you really cared about the old girlfriend, you'd have told her. You wouldn't let her waste her time coming all the way here and breaking the new girls heart. If you let her come here, you might as well just stay with her, because that's how the new girlfriend will interpret that, no matter what you tell her.

[Robbie]

So the arrows fly thick and fast again. No words from me can placate this womans ire and ease her pain. Nothing but an action, a deed will suffice, I know that. And yet even that may not be enough, am i right? Has she lost all faith in me? Can you answer me that? I don't want to break her heart, I don't want to break anyone's heart and I know what she's going through, I have been there myself. It's no pleasure to be on the receiving end.Ah, but that the world would open up and swallow me. Only one thing will prove to this woman whether my intentions are true or not. What are this womans's thoughts, her hopes? Elucidate these things to me, tell me her wants and aspirations, her heart's desire. Give me a light to run to, a beacon for my desire, or give me nothing and i shall crawl back into the mire, from whence i obviously came.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

You're right. She's been through this before and you know what...Because she wasn't able to break up with the old boyfriend, who she had realized she didn't love anymore, she lost the new boyfriend, who she had developed strong feelings for. He ended up marrying another woman. All the things that are going through your head right now, were going through her head. Ending it with someone is the most difficult thing in the world to do and everyone who has done it, feels no differently than you do. You say, you don't want to tell your girlfriend and her friend they can't stay with you. Well it shouldn't even have come down to this, with her coming here. The fact that it has gotten to this point and something hadn't been said to her sooner, that's what the problem is. If you think this other woman is going to sit back while you're sleeping in the same bed with this girl, living with her for a week and a 1/2 and Lord knows what else...then you're insane. You're asking way too much of her. You PROMISED, that Kenya was it. You said you'd tell her and now she's coming here. I'm so sure that she has asked you if you were dating someone else, judging from the way you've been distant from her (supposedly distant - if it's even true.) So what do you expect the other woman to do? Sit back and not say anything? NO WAY!!!! You can tell your girlfriend the truth before she comes here. At least let her know. Supposedly the ticket was given to her, so it's not costing money. And if it is, it's her fault for excepting the ticket without asking you first, or maybe she did ask you and you gave her the OK. Or isn't convenient that you might even be going out of town the same week that she's supposed to be coming here. Is it that you two (and the friend) are going on a vacation here in the states, and you'll all be gone for the week? She doesn't know what to believe, except that you've been lying to your girlfriend, why not to her. You've been in pain, do you even know what she's been going through? Thinking you're wonderful and the most incredible person she's ever met, and then finding out you're nothing but a total liar and a snake. You haven't told the old girlfriend about the new one, because you're concerned about her, you're concerned about you and how it's going to affect you. If you really cared about the old girlfriend, you'd have told her. You wouldn't let her waste her time coming all the way here and breaking the new girls heart. If you let her come here, you might as well just stay with her, because that's how the new girlfriend will interpret that, no matter what you tell her.

[Shirley Mae]

I think you have to call her. You guys really need to talk.

[Robbie]

I guess you are right......from my sick bed shall i contact her...

I think you have to call her. You guys really need to talk.

[Joe]

So the arrows fly thick and fast again. No words from me can placate this womans ire and ease her pain. Nothing but an action, a deed will suffice, I know that. And yet even that may not be enough, am i right? Has she lost all faith in me? Can you answer me that? I don't want to break her heart, I don't want to break anyone's heart and I know what she's going through, I have been there myself. It's no pleasure to be on the receiving end.Ah, but that the world would open up and swallow me. Only one thing will prove to this woman whether my intentions are true or not. What are this womans's thoughts, her hopes? Elucidate these things to me, tell me her wants and aspirations, her heart's desire. Give me a light to run to, a beacon for my desire, or give me nothing and i shall crawl back into the mire, from whence i obviously came. ------------------------------------------------------------