His wife is a ventilated quadriplegic.

[wyldflower]

How exactly does this man support YOU? What kind of support do you need that he provides that you say he is there for you?

 

We have become great friends in the last 18 months. He supports me emotionally in everything in my personal life. We have become an integral part of each other's lives.

[Ms. Red]

**been gone from LS for a couple days & my head is dizzy from reading this thread. Here is my input. **

 

Wyldflower, it is clear and obvious that you care for this women. It takes a special soul to show such REAL compassion & caring towards a pt. In general, (IMO/personal observation) most hired care staff just show up & put in their time on the clock. She is fortunate to have such a caring leader of her care team as you.

 

No one can understand where you are with the husband except yourself. In-home care extends to the family. It is not meant for just the pt. If you have the connection....you have the connection. I respect that you have the integrity to wait & keep it to yourselves until the future. I wish U well.

[Walking away]

I am a Registered Nurse and the owner of a staffing registry for nurses.

 

All moral reasoning aside, (and believe me, I have my views on this situation from an ex OW standpoint), I would fire you on the spot if you worked for me.

 

No if, ands, or buts about it.

 

Sorry.

 

WA

[Lookingforward]

It sems that wyld has a niggling conscience about the situation or she wouldn't have even posted in the first place.

[Tomcat33]

This will be the last time I post on LS.

I wanted to let TC know she is spot on about thinking the H's care towards his W would deteriorate should I leave the job. It is not as simple as having another carer replace me. We are specifically trained for her and training can take up to 4 months. It is an intensive care postion and they find have found great difficulty in finding competent staff.

I suggested that I leave the job today and H just broke down. Regardless of what people choose to believe, we are very much a support for each other and need one another. I know he would be distracted and distressed should I go. That in turn would affect the dynamics of the house and, ulimately, her care.

There are no legal repercussions for being emotionally involved with a patient's spouse...it is amusing to see that people who assume so much about the law actually know very little.

It is a fairly good indicator of the accuracy of the rest of the assumptions on here.

Her family love their son-in-law and have lived through both the heartache of seeing her trapped in her body, and also he and thier children having to stop normal existence to support her. We all are sadly aware that it will be a blessing when she can be free, so I have no concerns about her family's attitude toward us further down the track. It may be hard for some to believe but it is the actuality in this case. Not an assumption based on "what you would do".

TC, Thank you for all of your support. I am sorry you have been pinpointed in all of this.

 

 

Hi Wyld I read your story and looked at the big picture and I put myself in the shoes of everyone involved and visualised what I would feel in each position that is how I was able to understand what the H might be going through and the type of care the W is getting from you. I pictured my mother in the place if the ill W, my father as the man in the H's shoes, or my father in the shoes of the ill person and my mother the caregiver. I pictured myself in the place of the ill W and my partner devoted to me and my deteriorating health for 5 + years. I pictured myself in your shoes, and in the shoes of the H. And I can honestly say I empathise with EVERYONE involved and dealt with different emotions wearing each hat, but the fact remains "'til death do us part" death came to this poor woman 5 yrs ago, she has been almost dead for 5 yrs so I don't see how people cannot step outside of their own "neediness" to see this. But to each their own.

 

I am sorry you feel this thread didn't serve of much help that is what I was afraid of when I read the first few pages of insults, and I don't blame you for being turned off. It's easier said than done to skim through the nasty posts and ignore in order to connect to those who are really here to offer some sound words. Especially when you are already feeling bad as it is. It took courage to tell this controversial story publicly. It's really a shame because this situation is very complex and I am sure if you could have managed to discuss with those of us who are free of the insulting criticisms you could have found it quite productive in terms of finding new ways of dealing with your situation. But I see that was not made possible for you.

 

Clearly this situation perplexes you and you were open to seeing your situation in a new way otherwise you would not have turned here for help. But I can totally empathise with you and I know I would not want to stick around if I would have been met with the level of immaturity and disrespect some met you with.

 

As I always say, there is plenty of time to pursuade someone to think in terms of your own philosophies but in order for that to happen a certain level of trust and respect must be established first. If you are just going to demand a person sees things your way and insult them while you are at it, you will NEVER get anywhere with that. A lot of people are CLUELESS when it comes to the power of persuasion, all they know is impossition or demand but haven't a clue on how to persuade. Only an imbecil imposes and expects to have a positive outcome, though some imbecils just want a negative outcome because they thrive on negative energy.

 

Don't worry about me Wyld I am not the one in need, you are, I'm really sorry you feel you have to abandon this thread. Maybe try to come back here in a few days when it has cooled down a bit? The bad apples don't last here for long they always get reported and once the novelty of the drama evoked by a thread like this dies down you can actually make some headway. Do peek in in a few days and see. Othewise the offer still stands PM me any time.

[LakesideDream]

We have become great friends in the last 18 months. He supports me emotionally in everything in my personal life. We have become an integral part of each other's lives.

 

 

For a respite from the land of intolerance... read on.

 

I wonder, seriously wonder how much good this relationship between wyld and the H may have already done.

 

Having a concerned caring and connected person to share, discuss, and even cry over the wife's condition... may have actually increased the level and quality of the care she receives.

 

The wife has moved from the catagory of active participant to one of a person in need of intensive 24 hour care to survive. In my humble, and often ignorant opinion... this changes the playing field substantially.

 

I understand there is a matter of medical ethic's here too. It is imperitive that wyld and the H do not act on their relationship beyond mutual support, and cooperation in caring for the wife while she is alive. As long as this boundry is not crossed. I cannot see the harm, I can see substantial good.

[Walking away]

From a professional standpoint as a nurse, this boundary has already been crossed.

 

And it is unethical at best.

 

And nursing care should NOT improve due the relationship of the patient's husband. It should ALWAYS be professional and caring. And personal feelings should be handled.

 

Nurses are to be trusted. And the OP should and is required by the State Board of Nursing to be the PATIENT advocate first and foremost.

 

I hardly believe that having an emotional and probable physical affair with her husband is being her advocate.

 

It is a sticky wicket and the OP needs to remove herself to ensure the professionalism of the situation.

 

Surely she understands this or she would not be posting the dilemma.

 

Just my two cents...

 

WA

[Walking away]

And addition: the OP stated in her first post that the patient shouldn't live for more than a year.

 

Why is that? She has been stable for the past 5 years. What is the indicator that she will die in the next YEAR?

 

As an ICU nurse, I cannot even imagine that I would be able to guess that prognosis so far in advance. Things can change in a matter of minutes, even days....But if she is deteriorating as the OP intimates, I would imagine that she would die very soon.

 

Yet, it doesn't appear to be this way with this particular patient. In fact, not knowing the details of this patient's condition, I would say that she could live for a significant amount of time with proper care and treatment.

 

What is the reasoning for her impending death in a year? I don't understand.

 

And more disturbing: What happens if the patient DOESN'T die as the OP believes she will?

 

Then what?

 

From a professional standpoint as a fellow nurse, this situation is a hornet's nest.

[Tomcat33]

What is the reasoning for her impending death in a year? I don't understand.

 

And more disturbing: What happens if the patient DOESN'T die as the OP believes she will?

 

 

 

Good question: what DOES happen if this woman lives on for many years to come in this state or worse?

 

The reason for her impending death in a year is because when she was diagnosed she was given 6 yrs to live, 5 of which she has already been through and deteriorated so the "guesstimate" is one more year. Of course she could live longer, doctors are not god and it could be any number of years, but she clearly will not improve and quite frankly it appears she will only get worse. At the point she is now even if she stableizes it seems pretty close to death already.

 

So let's say she does live for another 10yrs exactly as she is now, in a wheelchair incapable of moving nothing more than her lips to bearly speak and her eyes, do you also expect her H to stay celebate in spirit and body to this shell of his partner for 10 more years?

 

I just cannot wrap my ahead around that concept, it is the most selfish thing I have ever heard of.

 

This is a really disturbing thought. I know people who have had to put away a parent with allzheimer's and the parent that is left has gone on to be with a new romantic partner. I mean c'mon anyone expecting to cut off their spouse from the world romantically because they become incapacitated but are "still married" is completely unreasonable.

 

I would honestly HATE to be the spouse of the person who thinks like that, it would scare me to death to think a person can be THAT desperately needy and malicious. That is not loving a partner that is manipulation. What kind of a person would want a spouse cut themselves off from the world to join them in their dying process? I mean really how many people actually marry with the idea that "if I die my partner MUST die with me"?

 

Essentially that is what you are asking, that if something terrible happens to you, that your partner die along with you. It does not get anymore selfish than that really.

[Walking away]

I am speaking from a professional standpoint only, Tomcat.

 

I don't really care what the OP does personally. I don't know her, I don't know the people involved. I have my personal opinions but I will keep them to myself.

 

And, I wasn't projecting these questions due to my personal beliefs. I haven't been at all. I am speaking as a nurse and only as a nurse.

 

I sympathize with the situation, but being a professional, I would take my personal entanglements OUT of the working realm.

 

It is called being professional and true to your chosen profession.

[carhill]

Having had some experience with that (the AD thing), most of our caregivers have chosen to participate in the death process with their spouse (the caregivers are mostly women), whether caring for them personally with help (usually a CNA) or within the confines of an institution of care. Some do turn care over and move on with their lives, only visiting. It's a personal choice. Every relationship and family dynamic is different.

 

All that said, I would be loathe, if an active professional caregiver, to involve myself with the spouse of a dying/terminally ill person (AD patients are terminally ill, though the process, like apparently for the OP's patient's quadriplegia, is variable in length). It just wouldn't "feel" right to me. Again, an ethical and/or moral judgement the OP must make, mindful of the consequences. Nothing about this is easy. I wish the OP patience and wisdom in her process.

[Mino]

what about the fratanizing rule for companies? A manager is not alowed to date a employee...wouldn't this also follow under these rules since the Husband is the employer? maybe even showing favoriitism... I still think she should leave her post.. If she wants to see mm during this time, thats fine... its just wrong I think while she is the caretaker for the wife and the H is the employer.. I have seen managers date employees... One does leave, usually the employee...Just like a GF or wife could not work for her H if he is a manager, or higher up...Not saying she should no0t see him, but this way she is not in contact with the w anymore..

[whichwayisup]

Here's a senario -Could happen, maybe, maybe not. ..

 

His wife is very close to the end. He holds his wife hand, speaks with her, kisses her forehead, says his goodbyes, holds her until she passes..

 

Can wyld do her job without feeling hurt that her (MM), her patients husband is doing this before her eyes? Will she feel betrayed and jealous? Hurt? She's already admitted that it would upset her if she DID overhear him. Imagine this time, last moments he has with his wife, her family around as well - Can wyld 100% guarantee that her personal feelings WILL NOT get in the way? I doubt it..

 

Having a concerned caring and connected person to share, discuss, and even cry over the wife's condition... may have actually increased the level and quality of the care she receives.

 

But it can also get in the way.

[Walking away]

Is the OP a Registered Nurse or a caregiver or something in between?

 

Just wondering what her level of care for the patient is...

[Tomcat33]

His wife is very close to the end. He holds his wife hand, speaks with her, kisses her forehead, says his goodbyes, holds her until she passes..

 

Can wyld do her job without feeling hurt that her (MM), her patients husband is doing this before her eyes? Will she feel betrayed and jealous? Hurt? She's already admitted that it would upset her if she DID overhear him. Imagine this time, last moments he has with his wife, her family around as well - Can wyld 100% guarantee that her personal feelings WILL NOT get in the way? I doubt it..

 

 

 

 

I don't want to speak for Wyld ok but if I could I could take a guess at what she would feel in this situation, I can say that you cannot compare the kisses and love shown for someone in the shoes of the ill W, and the show of affection one would have for someone whom a person still feels romantic and sexual love for. Wyld said that this man has stopped feeling romatincally towards his W a long time ago, and how could you not, the person is not the same person anymore. You move on to feel another sort of love, one that is affectionate and painful and guilt ridden but it is not romantically charged anymore. Or the kind of love you would feel for a parent or a close friend. So I really don't think how there would be any feelings of jealousy to be had, there is no sexual feelings behind those emotions it is sheer affection and pitty, when the feeling is just a neutral passive one of affection an no longer attraction, it does not evoke jealousy.

 

There is no longer lust present so there is no feeling of competition.

[Tomcat33]

Is the OP a Registered Nurse or a caregiver or something in between?

 

Just wondering what her level of care for the patient is...

 

 

Have you even read the thread?

 

You seem to bring up a lot of points that have already been discussed during the thread.

 

Yes she is a nurse and she is head of the team.

[Walking away]

Have you even read the thread?

 

You seem to bring up a lot of points that have already been discussed during the thread.

 

Yes she is a nurse and she is head of the team.

 

She didn't say she was a nurse anywhere I read.

 

She said she was the team leader.

 

Caregivers do that too, you know...

 

Testy.

 

Why, dear?

 

And, BTW, I can bring up whatever points I want.

 

It's my right.

[Tomcat33]

She didn't say she was a nurse anywhere I read.

 

She said she was the team leader.

 

Caregivers do that too, you know...

 

Testy.

 

Why, dear?

 

And, BTW, I can bring up whatever points I want.

 

It's my right.

 

 

Click on her profile.

[Walking away]

Then she knows the State Board of Nursing rules and regulations.

 

Professional to professional, she is violating the ethics the State Board upholds.

[Tomcat33]

Testy.

 

Why, dear?

 

And, BTW, I can bring up whatever points I want.

 

It's my right.

 

 

Sorry I am not being testy I am just pointing out that you are bringing up points that were already discussed. You posted a whole post on the assumption of this "one year to live" point but it's already been explained earlier in the thread where this idea came from. Just letting you know the information is already here that's all.

[Lookingforward]

Hypothetical time - H's W in this situation passes away - former H and OP go on to make a future together and marry - H falls seriously ill or has an accident , finds himself in the same position as his former W.

 

So based on this thread we should expect that Wyld will distance herself from her H for whom she now feels only affection and pity and find someone else to share her romantic love ?

 

If this doesn't sound realistic, why not? What would make THAT situation any different from this one ?

[Walking away]

Sorry I am not being testy I am just pointing out that you are bringing up points that were already discussed. You posted a whole post on the assumption of this "one year to live" point but it's already been explained earlier in the thread where this idea came from. Just letting you know the information is already here that's all.

 

I'm tired.

 

And I don't like the OP putting her professional position in jeopardy.

 

It could scar her record for life. At the very least, someone could report her to the State Board and an investigation would ensue.

 

And she needs to be aware of those consequences.

[carhill]

Not definitive, but here's a post where the OP mentioned her capacity in care...

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1756317&postcount=370

 

BTW, in voluminous threads like this, using the "search thread" function is helpful

 

IME, at least with AD patients in the final stages cared for at home, a registered nurse (RN) is in charge of active care under the authority of the managing physician, as a RN is licensed to administer medications and perform other tasks which LVN's, LPN's and CNA's are not. I would almost take it for granted that a RN would be the team leader in a situation like the OP.

[Walking away]

Sorry I am not being testy I am just pointing out that you are bringing up points that were already discussed. You posted a whole post on the assumption of this "one year to live" point but it's already been explained earlier in the thread where this idea came from. Just letting you know the information is already here that's all.

 

No one, not even the OP, knows when this lady is going to die.

 

It could be tomorrow, it could be in 10 years.

 

I was just speculating on the ramifications if this situation continues for years and years.

[Tomcat33]

Hypothetical time - H's W in this situation passes away - former H and OP go on to make a future together and marry - H falls seriously ill or has an accident , finds himself in the same position as his former W.

 

So based on this thread we should expect that Wyld will distance herself from her H for whom she now feels only affection and pity and find someone else to share her romantic love ?

 

 

 

Well yes it could happen to Wyld as well. If a person is left with a partner that has completely fallen ill and is a shell of themselves and this happens to be going on for years then yes it is probable that this could also happen to Wyld. I don't have a crystal ball nor do I have a compass to measure how each person feels, but if she falls in this situation it could very well happen to her and this man too. Each situation is different.

 

In THIS particular scneario the man is romatically fallen for someone else as he lost his W. In the case of Wyld in the reverse scenario it is up to HER how and what she would feel knowing her H was practically dead to her for 5 yrs.