mental_traveller Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Not so much the culture, it's the caught up between religions. Personally I just don't see why, people can't get along and be more tolerant and accepting....end of the day, we are all human beings, we should treat each other like them It's tough being accepting and tolerant of a culture or person that doesn't accept and tolerate you. There are of course tolerant and accepting Muslims, but this guy doesn't sound like one. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 It's tough being accepting and tolerant of a culture or person that doesn't accept and tolerate you. There are of course tolerant and accepting Muslims, but this guy doesn't sound like one. Perfect summary. Link to post Share on other sites
Author xCarmenx Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 A woman has to convert to Islam to marry a practising Muslim man, otherwise the marriage won't be recognised under the religion. But it says in the Qur'an, that Muslim men can marry *people from the book*, which includes Christians and Jews alike, so long as they are practising Christians and Jews. They cannot marry, pagans, buddhists, or hinduists. I suppose they cannot marry the latter, because these faiths worship many Gods. Whereas Muslims, Christians, Jews worship the same God, only Christians believe Jesus to be the *son of God* and the Muslim belief, Jesus was a prophet.. Regarding abandoning the religion, the penalty in most Muslim countries for apostasy is death, this is also in the Koran. So yes, people take it seriously, it's not just hype. But as someone else pointed out, this is happens only in extreme cases and by extreme Muslims. They aren't all extreme and perhaps not so much in the UK. But then I could be wrong, I don't know. I've heard of cases in the UK, where fathers have murdered their daughters for being involved with a man outside of the Muslim faith, because it is forbidden for a Muslim female, to become involved with a man, who is not a Muslim In my opinion, you do not know much if anything about Islam, so it would be crazy for you to get involved with this guy. There is a huge culture clash with western values if he is a practising orthodox Muslim. It's not like he's some secular westernised guy whose background is Muslim but who doesn't really follow the religion. He is serious about it and so you would basically lose your identity if you married him. Next time I chat with him, I will ask if he is Orthodox Muslim Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 There are a few discrepancies between what it actually says in the Qu'ran and what many muslims actually practice and believe. There was a good programme about it on Channel 4 on Tuesday. I am most definitely not claiming to be an expert on it after watching one TV programme, however it could be of interest to you if you didn't see it. I think you can watch alot of ch4 progs online. Link to post Share on other sites
JustinWolf Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Like I said, I'm muslim but I don't know THAT much about the religion and I can tell you not many do either. The Quran is written in such way that some of the things can be interpreted in different ways. There are shiites and suniites and these two religious groups have two different views. As for God, Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in the same God. When I pray to God, I am praying to the same God as Carmen. Plus the fact she said he said some of those things jokinly makes me think about it. It depends on how he said it. I've made those jokes to an ex once and I was REALLY JOKING. You're going to have to have your own judgement on this. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I guess she won't be able to tell if he is kidding or not unless she meets him face to face. That way she will be able to get a better handle on his personality- which, after all, is the most important factor really. I guess the fact that he has said he won't tell his family about her is the biggest 'red flag' for me.. Link to post Share on other sites
JustinWolf Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Well I thought about it too and the thing is, they aren't in a relationship for him to even consider talking about her to his family. If they were and things got serious then he'd probably tell them. Right now, it's out of the question. He won't go up to them and be like "hey ma, da, I met a girl. we talk on the phone. it's great!" It's just random for now. So right now, your best bet is to meet him, talk to him, see if anything happens from there. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Fair enough. Personally, I think there are a few too many hurdles for me. I would probably just write this one off, seeing as there is distance involved too. maybe thats unfair, but there are plenty more fish in the sea! Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Hum... I'm not a religous person.. but my new bf is Muslim.. so I will ask him a few questions this weekend.. I am curious to see if religion is that important to him.. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Some things have come to bother me though. When he will call me on the phone, he calls me in secrecy, away from his family and friends. He says that his family know absolutely nothing about me and that if they knew about me, they would disown him. Then this won't work out. He is muslim, and it's more than just a religion, it's a LIFESTYLE. It affects every part of his life, day in and day out, from prayers to Eid and fasting, to his views on women. He won't go against his religion. Link to post Share on other sites
Author xCarmenx Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 I guess the fact that he has said he won't tell his family about her is the biggest 'red flag' for me.. He has never said, that he won't ever tell them about me. And at this moment in time he probably hasn't cared to tell them because all of this at the end of the day, could lead absolutely nowhere. We may meet and things may not work out in the real world. He would have no option but to tell them, if things did get serious and he could be waiting to see what happens himself I guess. I'd just asked one time, if he'd mentioned me, can't think why I'd asked that, but he'd replied that no he hadn't. He would mainly call me, if his parents were not in the home, from his back garden or when he was out for a walk. But thinking about it, I wouldn't call a guy in front of my parents either and particularly if it was a new guy in my life...I'd want privacy. I would probably just write this one off, seeing as there is distance involved too. He's not that far away, maybe an hours drive in a car. Up until the last week or so, neither of us had transport....he however, has just been out and bought himself a car. He's been wanting to meet, for a while, but it's me that was putting off and because of the uncertainty I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
Author xCarmenx Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 Then this won't work out. He is muslim, and it's more than just a religion, it's a LIFESTYLE. It affects every part of his life, day in and day out, from prayers to Eid and fasting, to his views on women. He won't go against his religion. But you get Muslims who perhaps don't take their religion, as seriously as other Muslims do. Same as Christians. I'm Christian, but I don't go to church, I don't pray. Yet for other people, attending church, prayers, etc is a part of their life and a way of their life. Granted Islam is a lifestyle....but some don't follow that lifestyle down to every last detail. He told me he doesn't go to a mosque to pray, even though he knows as a Muslim he should. From what I understand, Muslims go to mosque, at least five times a day! He's also wearing western clothes, jeans, t shirt, jumper, etc...so he is not following the traditional Muslim dress code either...To hear him on the phone, he is just your average British guy on the street with a strong Yorkshire accent lol....very different from what I'd expected him to be. But and from certain things he says, there are aspects of Islam that he will and obviously still does follow strictly. Any children he has, brought up in the Islamic faith for instance...wish he'd hurry up and phone, can't wait to see if he is Orthodox Muslim. Link to post Share on other sites
Author xCarmenx Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 Hum... I'm not a religous person.. but my new bf is Muslim.. so I will ask him a few questions this weekend.. I am curious to see if religion is that important to him.. I just saw you say in another thread, your boyfriend is an East Indian ??? Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I just saw you say in another thread, your boyfriend is an East Indian ??? yes.. and he's Muslim.. Link to post Share on other sites
taiko Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I just saw you say in another thread, your boyfriend is an East Indian ??? Its old American usage. East Indian to distinguish from American Indian or the more modern Native American. Without the Indian occupation that the UK had we only recently started picking up the usage of South Asian. We speak the same language but with differences another way we Americans have all but dropped usage of Oriental in favor of Asian when I still see European usage of Oriental to distinguish from Southern Asians on the internet. Link to post Share on other sites
Author xCarmenx Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 Its old American usage. East Indian to distinguish from American Indian or the more modern Native American. Without the Indian occupation that the UK had we only recently started picking up the usage of South Asian. We speak the same language but with differences another way we Americans have all but dropped usage of Oriental in favor of Asian when I still see European usage of Oriental to distinguish from Southern Asians on the internet. I see....I thought East Indian from India....thanks for clarifying Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 But you get Muslims who perhaps don't take their religion, as seriously as other Muslims do. That's true. But in your situation you've already said that his family doesn't know anything about you and he's going to have to hide you from them because they won't accept you into their lives. That's a pretty big X against you and him to fight against. He won't go against his family, his religion. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Orthodox Muslim If he is you'd know because he'd be doing the prayers and following more of a strict lifestyle. Link to post Share on other sites
Author xCarmenx Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 If he is you'd know because he'd be doing the prayers and following more of a strict lifestyle. Well I just asked him and he's not Orthodox, but Sunni.... Link to post Share on other sites
taiko Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Well I just asked him and he's not Orthodox, but Sunni.... I think by ''Orthodox'' people real meaning would be closer to fundamentalist, not like the difference between the Eastern Orthodox and western Catholic churches. As in being in submission demands a more fundamental lifestyle. Link to post Share on other sites
Author xCarmenx Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 I think by ''Orthodox'' people real meaning would be closer to fundamentalist, not like the difference between the Eastern Orthodox and western Catholic churches. As in being in submission demands a more fundamental lifestyle. Yeah, I'd kinda figured that when Orthodox was mentioned, it was the *extreme* type of Muslim. Well he's not a fundamentalist nor extreme in his views whatsover and he has been very likely to have been joking, when he has mentioned a hijab and such things, lol. He seems a pretty laid back type of person, as I said, just your everday average guy. He's easy going, chatty, great sense of humour...pretty much on the same wavelength as me, which is why we may have hit it off I guess. Religion, lifestyle and cultures apart maybe, but when all of those things are taken out of the equation, at the end of the day we are just two human beings who crossed paths and found we get along well Link to post Share on other sites
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