Suggestion box for ls

[KATANYA]

Hi BB......couldn't agree more and truly believe this forum can support all sorts of opinions and perspectives as they relate to the forums focus.

 

Of course its important and even beneficial to understand all sides and all opinions and that is, from what I remember, usually well tolerated by all posters. Its simply the condemnation of the OP and the "you deserve what you get" responses that really I can't see the point in!

[White Flower]

++++++++++++++

 

BTW hi WF......glad to be back! Still going through treatment but the worst is behind me (I hope). Havn't gotten a chance to read through your past posts but am hoping all is well with you too!

Excellent, I'm glad you're doing well. I'm OK. PM me any time.

[KATANYA]

I don't think she meant all marriages were as such. Mine was, and I was not offended in any way.

 

Actually, both mine were for different reasons.....it doesn't offend me to say that my marriages were a farse or to have it pointed out to me that I picked the wrong men BOTH times!

 

Just for the record, the definition of farce:

 

A ludicrous, empty show; a mockery

 

So many women have described this as how they have felt upon realizing their WS had been carrying on an A or several A's right under their noses. It made them feel that the relationship was all simply an illusion and that it made a mockery of their vows.

 

In no way is it derogatory of the BS, if anything it would denote that the innocent party (the BS) was a victim of the deceit upon them.

 

I, again, don't see why the word is so offensive! Its implied to the marriage not the person!

[NatoPMT]

Hi BB......couldn't agree more and truly believe this forum can support all sorts of opinions and perspectives as they relate to the forums focus.

 

Of course its important and even beneficial to understand all sides and all opinions and that is, from what I remember, usually well tolerated by all posters. Its simply the condemnation of the OP and the "you deserve what you get" responses that really I can't see the point in!

 

i know and i do agree with that 100% - it has little value - in fact, i think it allows people who feel they need to defend themselves to talk themselves further into their state of mind or opinions - when you feel you have to defend yourself, in defending yourself you underline why you feel that way - so angry posts do the exact opposite of what the poster seems to want to do ie talk an OW out of being on OW. So again, that evidences that its about the angry poster as the lack of consideration as to what the angry post achieves

 

and i think your op also shows that it makes you feel like you are justifying your actions, therefore you feel more justified in being in an affair

 

my personal irritation is rolling eyes. just HOW is that offering anything constructive

[White Flower]

True BB. Spending so much time defending ourselves against the MP is time wasted when we could have been working through our pain and other issues. Honestly, most of the advice I got from OWs was to run if it wasn't true love. And now that is the advice I usually give. It concerns me that a lot of the MPs here don't recognize that.

 

Owl, Herenow, Bentnotbroken, and others whose names I'm too ditzy to remember right now you know I don't include you here. You all have great advice to give and help all of us put great perspectives out their for the OPs.

[NoIDidn't]

I just hate these kinds of threads, but wanted to put my two cents in. Having been around here for some time now, all I can add to this is....

 

wash, rinse, repeat....

[NatoPMT]

i dont hate them, i think its right that things need to be reeled in again every now and again, and if the thread is handled well, it can contribute to everyone seeing they are reacting badly to each other

 

if someone reacts badly to an BS, they should also take on board that their bad reactions bad perpetuate the whole stand off.

[KATANYA]

i think its right that things need to be reeled in again every now and again, and if the thread is handled well, it can contribute to everyone seeing they are reacting badly to each other

 

 

Well said and AMEN!

[silktricks]

I, again, don't see why the word is so offensive! Its implied to the marriage not the person!

 

The word farce in and of itself is not offensive - and of course some people's marriages are a farce, just as some of any type of relationship are.

 

However, you didn't say or even imply that you were speaking of some. You spoke directly to Betrayed Spouses. The way the original post was worded certainly implied that you were speaking to ALL betrayed spouses, therefore it seemed you were stating that any marriage that has ever experienced an affair is a farce. Some of us have put a tremendous amount of work into recovering our marriages. We live in them and know that they are good healthy marriages. We do find it offensive to once again need to explain that we are happy.

 

That said, I do not think that anyone should come to any forum and bash people. The fact is that there are a few people who love to do it - both OW and BS. They do it on both forums, and it seems they do it primarily to get a rise out of others. It's also true that some people simply don't realize that the way they've phrased something can be offensive - it's "heard" by others in a way they didn't intend. Perhaps that is what happened with this thread .

[herenow]

I think there is a difference of opinion sometimes in what people consider to be bashing. I have never come here with intent to "bash". If there is thread I have an opinion on, I will comment with my true honest feelings based on my own life experiences. Some may call it bashing, but I can't change my story just because someone won't like the what I have to say or the way I see the situation. How is giving a false response to make someone feel better going to help anyone? Once again I have to say it isn't a bad thing to see the raw emotion that relationships like this have on all sides. JMO

 

Hey WF what's up?

[NoIDidn't]

The whole paragraph about a forum for *Betrayed Spouses* is where the problem lies.

 

The descriptor for this forum doesn't say

 

OM/OW: The other side of the story. Support and discussion for the delusional that believe everything that a MP says to them to string them along and keep them hidden in the shadows, safely away from their real life.

 

does it?

 

And if it did, who would want to post in such a forum that automatically addresses you with such disrespect.

 

That's why I hate these kinds of threads. The language chosen may very well be from the OP's perspective of the marriage that they are impacting, but that is NOT how to word the description for a forum.

 

I'm hoping someone can tell that I am laughing while I post this. Laughing, incredulously. As in, you can't seriously want a forum to be created with THAT as its intro, do you? I mean, tell me what you really think of the betrayed! LOL.

 

Again....wash, rinse, repeat.

 

It would be totally different if the opening post didn't include that suggestion for a forum. IMO.

[NoIDidn't]

How is giving a false response to make someone feel better going to help anyone?

 

Is it false, or is it just not realistic? KWIM?

[KATANYA]

The way the original post was worded certainly implied that you were speaking to ALL betrayed spouses' date=' therefore it seemed you were stating that any marriage that has ever experienced an affair is a farce. Some of us have put a tremendous amount of work into recovering our marriages. We live in them and know that they are good healthy marriages. We do find it offensive to once again need to explain that we are happy.[/b']

 

I don't know your story SILKTRICKS but I will go back read your posts. I'm also glad that you are in a relationship that is working for you and that you have found the happiness so many seek.

 

I think that is what most people look for at then end of the day - joy and happiness with someone they love! This forum exists because some find it, rightly or wrongly, in a OP/MP relationship.....

 

I personally don't have anything further to add to this thread other than to say I hope people can come here and express themselves and their relationship issues and seek helpful responses to their questions. Whether someone is a BS or an OP the intent of the forum should be respected and thereby the people who post here and their respective situations can be respected!

[herenow]

Is it false' date=' or is it just not realistic? KWIM?[/quote']

 

Both. My point is, if a post isn't based in truth, it's no help to anyone. So, if you ask BW's to hide their true feelings, you aren't really getting what you need to be able to look at affairs from all sides. I'm assuming that our stories do matter to some of the OW's here because of conversations I have had with them via PM. We may not agree, but everyone has equal right to give their opinion.

[herenow]

 

I think that is what most people look for at then end of the day - joy and happiness with someone they love! This forum exists because some find it, rightly or wrongly, in a OP/MP relationship.....

 

I personally don't have anything further to add to this thread other than to say I hope people can come here and express themselves and their relationship issues and seek helpful responses to their questions. Whether someone is a BS or an OP the intent of the forum should be respected and thereby the people who post here and their respective situations can be respected!

 

That's a great theory, but the reality is affairs are a volatile subject and there with always be conflict. It's the nature of the beast.

[NatoPMT]

 

However, you didn't say or even imply that you were speaking of some. You spoke directly to Betrayed Spouses. The way the original post was worded certainly implied that you were speaking to ALL betrayed spouses, therefore it seemed you were stating that any marriage that has ever experienced an affair is a farce. Some of us have put a tremendous amount of work into recovering our marriages. We live in them and know that they are good healthy marriages. We do find it offensive to once again need to explain that we are happy.

 

i think thats part of the counter attack, its easy to see why someone would say that when there are people who are extremely hurt and directing their hurt at others who havent directly contributed to the individual BS's pain. Just as its easy for me to see why the BS would feel anger towards the sometimes unrepentant attitude of many OW's ive read posts by on LS in the past

 

i have been posting on another uk forum for a few years, and i have left and come back here because of the judgement on that other site - from what i have read so far on LS these days, theres a lot fewer judgmental posters on LS, so i do think OW get a way better deal here and i think its prudent for OW to remember that they are given a lot of support here and they are in the minority in believing this is an acceptable way to live your life

 

however, i think that dissecting the details of posts over discussing the causes and reasons for the thinking is not the most productive way to deal with it

 

as a BS (or a moral objector) i feel it would serve you better to challenge the ow's thinking in a more gentle and understanding way, if you achieve some understanding or give the ow something to consider then your contribution to preventing infidelity is much greater than just making someone feel they have to defend themselves.

 

i think kat has recounted her use of the word farce - which may have been said in a pique of indignation

 

sorry for speaking on your behalf kat

[herenow]

[

 

I personally don't have anything further to add to this thread other than to say I hope people can come here and express themselves and their relationship issues and seek helpful responses to their questions. Whether someone is a BS or an OP the intent of the forum should be respected and thereby the people who post here and their respective situations can be respected!

 

Just out of curiosity KATANYA, do you think your original post was respectful?

[NatoPMT]

I think there is a difference of opinion sometimes in what people consider to be bashing. I have never come here with intent to "bash". If there is thread I have an opinion on, I will comment with my true honest feelings based on my own life experiences. Some may call it bashing, but I can't change my story just because someone won't like the what I have to say or the way I see the situation. How is giving a false response to make someone feel better going to help anyone? Once again I have to say it isn't a bad thing to see the raw emotion that relationships like this have on all sides. JMO

 

Hey WF what's up?

 

i agree, but someone who is doing what they know to be wrong, and id guess that even if you believe affairs to be your right, or it suits you, you do know that its not something that youd do in an idea world. Just to clarify that, if youd like a distance and an add on to an already good, and fulfilling life, then if you could choose between a man who was unmarried but could provide exactly what you wanted (for eg distance, no pressure, fun whatever), and a mm who could provide exactly what you wanted, i assume the unmarried man would be the first choice

 

and if in addition you know that everyone else feels its wrong, then you are going to have a higher bashing threshold than someone who feels they are doing things for altruistic reasons

 

or of course it could be just a selfish ow feeling they can do what they hell they like - but i think thats more rare than we perceive. people sometimes present themselves as uncaring as thats what they need to do to validate their behaviour. and thats where the perceptions of justifying posts start to get blurred

[NatoPMT]

The whole paragraph about a forum for *Betrayed Spouses* is where the problem lies.

 

The descriptor for this forum doesn't say

 

OM/OW: The other side of the story. Support and discussion for the delusional that believe everything that a MP says to them to string them along and keep them hidden in the shadows, safely away from their real life.

 

does it?

 

And if it did, who would want to post in such a forum that automatically addresses you with such disrespect.

 

That's why I hate these kinds of threads. The language chosen may very well be from the OP's perspective of the marriage that they are impacting, but that is NOT how to word the description for a forum.

 

I'm hoping someone can tell that I am laughing while I post this. Laughing, incredulously. As in, you can't seriously want a forum to be created with THAT as its intro, do you? I mean, tell me what you really think of the betrayed! LOL.

 

Again....wash, rinse, repeat.

 

It would be totally different if the opening post didn't include that suggestion for a forum. IMO.

 

again, i think its just kat being defensive to the attacks that ow do get - here and in every other forum, you should be able to post without attack, kat did say in response to my post about differing views that she welcomes them, just not the 'well you deserve it'' stuff

 

its just that affairs hurt us all at some point so we all feel strongly about them, and its blatantly obvious they are wrong and most people agree they are wrong, so it is easier to bash an OW

[herenow]

OK, I get that we should all try to say things in a way that our opinion is clear, but we don't try to intentionally insult others.

 

But, when someone comes out swinging, like the OP of this thread, you can expect others to hit back. Oh I suppose we could just do as we tell our kids and walk away, but I can't see that happening with a topic like this. JMO

[NatoPMT]

 

I think that is what most people look for at then end of the day - joy and happiness with someone they love! This forum exists because some find it, rightly or wrongly, in a OP/MP relationship.....

 

theres the problem in the difference of how its seen, i know youre done with the thread kat, and i can understand why, but most people dont believe that joy and happiness is found within an affair - some joy yes, but its not a happiness that can be rooted in what i understand of happiness - granted my view is only my view, but to me, to find an affair as the right, true end to your search for that happiness indicates that the ow is looking for the wrong thing (my version of 'wrong'), and it can be very frustrating to see that this concept cant be challenged in an OW but i understand why. for eg If my set of values are challenged by someone who disagrees and i accept im wrong, then i am at square one again and my whole set of ideals, understanding and the achievement ive made through that understanding is based on falsehood. i have to defend what i think is right, or i could be wrong about everything and i dont want to upset my status quo

 

i do also think that i can only deliver my opinion and accept if its not agreed with - i cant force my way of seeing things on others, but i can hope they will listen

[NoIDidn't]

again, i think its just kat being defensive to the attacks that ow do get - here and in every other forum, you should be able to post without attack, kat did say in response to my post about differing views that she welcomes them, just not the 'well you deserve it'' stuff

 

its just that affairs hurt us all at some point so we all feel strongly about them, and its blatantly obvious they are wrong and most people agree they are wrong, so it is easier to bash an OW

 

 

The thing that upsets me the most about the whole thing is that the guy in the middle of BW/OW NEVER comes out to the forums. He hides from both. He doesn't say a word, unless you count the crazies over at philanderers.com.

 

Its not easier to bash the OW, and I don't. But it is certainly more acceptable in most circles than actually having/being in an affair.

[NatoPMT]

OK, I get that we should all try to say things in a way that our opinion is clear, but we don't try to intentionally insult others.

 

But, when someone comes out swinging, like the OP of this thread, you can expect others to hit back. Oh I suppose we could just do as we tell our kids and walk away, but I can't see that happening with a topic like this. JMO

 

sactly, kat came out swinging cos she sees others being swung at, so people swing back

 

everyones windmilling at each other and noone gets heard or helps each other or gains understanding

 

i think i live in eutopia in my head

[NatoPMT]

The thing that upsets me the most about the whole thing is that the guy in the middle of BW/OW NEVER comes out to the forums. He hides from both. He doesn't say a word, unless you count the crazies over at philanderers.com.

 

Its not easier to bash the OW, and I don't. But it is certainly more acceptable in most circles than actually having/being in an affair.

 

**** i just pressed 'alert us' on your post by accident NID - sorry if owt happens

 

interesting you say its more acceptable to be the ow than the affairee. i used to be a habitual cheater - to me, being the OW is just never ever something id even consider (neither is cheating now), and bearing in mind i cheated on long term partners for about 15 years, to me its a millions miles away from anything id entertain. i just wouldnt do it, and i see OW/OM as something i dont understand as ive never been there, although i bring it back to its base level of the reasons someone would be a OM/OW and then i find it easier to have empathy - the reasons people get into abusive relationships, cheat, have dysfunctions or be the ow arent all that far away from each other

[herenow]

sactly, kat came out swinging cos she sees others being swung at, so people swing back

 

everyones windmilling at each other and noone gets heard or helps each other or gains understanding

 

i think i live in eutopia in my head

 

I guess the feeling I get about the OP is that it isn't really about anything except telling the BS (in a very condescending manner) to basically play nice or leave. And, again, there is nothing "nice" IMO about adultery. Just saying.

 

It you watch any debate where the opposing sides are passionate about their position, there is always bound to be conflict. Take that and add betrayal and you get sparks and sometimes fire.