Suggestion box for ls

[OpenBook]

That would mean that....gulp...they could be responsible for their own unhappiness that led them to choose to cheat in the first place???

 

No, I've seen too much abusive behavior between couples to believe that a person in a miserable R is always 100% responsible for their own unhappiness. Just getting away from a poisonous person can make all the difference in one's own happiness barometer.

 

And I believe that many S's who cheat do so (at least in part) to detox and neutralize some of that poison that's been building up in their M... so that they can at least tolerate it, live with it, and not go mad.

[OWoman]

I don't give it to those that disrespect people in real life and hurt people.

END OF STORY

 

You disrespect yourself and hate yourself? That is so sad. You should consider therapy.

[OWoman]

No, I've seen too much abusive behavior between couples to believe that a person in a miserable R is always 100% responsible for their own unhappiness. Just getting away from a poisonous person can make all the difference in one's own happiness barometer.

 

I've certainly seen that with MM and their kids. Wow what a difference!

 

And I believe that many S's who cheat do so (at least in part) to detox and neutralize some of that poison that's been building up in their M... so that they can at least tolerate it, live with it, and not go mad.

 

And recover some sense of value in themselves as a person - some outside verification and affirmation that they are lovable, worthy of respect and not that piece of trash they're treated as in their M.

[SueBee3490]

And recover some sense of value in themselves as a person - some outside verification and affirmation that they are lovable, worthy of respect and not that piece of trash they're treated as in their M.

 

This is not always the case. People tend to "once again" blame the cheatee too for the actions of the cheater.

 

My bf and I did alot of things together, had great sex, took our kids (my 3 & his 2) on a trip across the US (of which I will say that I planned the whole thing). His kids at that time were teens and hadn't been on a vacation for at least 10-12 years. I cooked/baked for him and his kids. I would bake cookies, cakes, make Easter baskets, b/c he would tell me his ex-wife didn't do any of these things for his kids and my heart broke for them because I loved their dad, I was growing attached to them too. But of course that was another lie (go figure he cheats & lies!). She did all kinds of things for them. So I was totally in love and "thought" he was too.

 

How sad that he used me for a doormat while he continued to see others. I won't take any of the responsibility for his cheating. He chose to do that. If he was so unhappy with me he could have broken up with me - of which one time I did question him on breaking up. He practically came undone begging me to continue seeing him. What a nutjob! Why did he need me when he had all those?

 

So no, I won't take responsibility for his "unhappiness" when he NEVER mentioned/acted to me as though he was unhappy with our relationship. How can I fix something when I don't even know it's broke.

[luvmy2ns]

This is not always the case. People tend to "once again" blame the cheatee too for the actions of the cheater.

 

My bf and I did alot of things together, had great sex, took our kids (my 3 & his 2) on a trip across the US (of which I will say that I planned the whole thing). His kids at that time were teens and hadn't been on a vacation for at least 10-12 years. I cooked/baked for him and his kids. I would bake cookies, cakes, make Easter baskets, b/c he would tell me his ex-wife didn't do any of these things for his kids and my heart broke for them because I loved their dad, I was growing attached to them too. But of course that was another lie (go figure he cheats & lies!). She did all kinds of things for them. So I was totally in love and "thought" he was too.

 

How sad that he used me for a doormat while he continued to see others. I won't take any of the responsibility for his cheating. He chose to do that. If he was so unhappy with me he could have broken up with me - of which one time I did question him on breaking up. He practically came undone begging me to continue seeing him. What a nutjob! Why did he need me when he had all those?

 

So no, I won't take responsibility for his "unhappiness" when he NEVER mentioned/acted to me as though he was unhappy with our relationship. How can I fix something when I don't even know it's broke.

 

And so many fall for the lies, completely believing everything out of the guy's mouth. Poor, poor unappreciated man! No wonder he cheated on his wife! (That was not directed at you, SueBee-you had the good sense to realize the truth). And THIS is where soooo many OW are. They've been totally snowed by a very good actor. Some of these guys raise manipulation tactics to an art form!

 

Of course, this is not always the case. There ARE bad marriages, and sometimes one person IS more culpable than the other. But the answer is NEVER lying and cheating. You relay your unhappiness about your M. If both participants in the R aren't willing to work on the issues, then you divorce and move on.

[Owl]

GREAT POST, Luv!

[luvmy2ns]

GREAT POST, Luv!

 

Awww, thanks Owl! That means a lot coming from you.

[OWoman]

This is not always the case. People tend to "once again" blame the cheatee too for the actions of the cheater.

 

Nor did I say it was.

 

But I have seen - both in my own As and in those around me - how much self esteem can be recovered through an A where a person is feeling devalued or debased in their M.

[luvmy2ns]

Nor did I say it was.

 

But I have seen - both in my own As and in those around me - how much self esteem can be recovered through an A where a person is feeling devalued or debased in their M.

 

OWoman, yours is a clear cut case where the W is a nut job, and the H is "that poor, poor unappreciated man." Or I guess I should say "was" eh? He's lucky you found each other. And, it seems, so are the kids.

[silktricks]

Can self-esteem be raised through an affair? Of course it can. Why wouldn't a man's self-esteem be raised by having two (or more) women doting upon him.

 

The fact that an affair can raise self-esteem for the person who is cheating does not however in any way imply that the wife is automatically the cause of his poor self-esteem. Though this is not the case in your situation, OWoman, in many cases the wife is doting upon the man, is treating him very well indeed. The cause of his poor self-esteem (or hers if the cheater is the wife) is not the spouse but rather within him/herself and unresolved issues there.

 

Cheating is not the answer unless the goal is simply to lower the self-esteem of the married partner. Self awareness and self analysis may be helpful, though.

[OWoman]

Can self-esteem be raised through an affair? Of course it can. Why wouldn't a man's self-esteem be raised by having two (or more) women doting upon him.

 

In some cases, though, it's not "two or more", it's only the AP doting on the MP. The BS has long since ceased to dote, has come to regard the MP as part of the furniture, and to take them for granted. And this is as much for Ws as for Hs - sometimes the H sees their W simply as the mother of the kids and the cook and cleaner, and her self-esteem as woman hits rock bottom. When an OM comes along and finds her a goddess, how's her self-esteem not going to perk up?

 

 

The fact that an affair can raise self-esteem for the person who is cheating does not however in any way imply that the wife is automatically the cause of his poor self-esteem. Though this is not the case in your situation, OWoman, in many cases the wife is doting upon the man, is treating him very well indeed. The cause of his poor self-esteem (or hers if the cheater is the wife) is not the spouse but rather within him/herself and unresolved issues there.

 

Silk I'm sure that is sometimes (oftentimes? Not sure. Never done a count) the case, but equally being taken for granted and reduced to a "role" within an M can wear away at self-esteem. I've seen lots of this among colleagues - some of them leaders in their fields - who are very receptive to the first bit of positive feedback form some secretary or student who makes them feel special again.

 

 

Cheating is not the answer unless the goal is simply to lower the self-esteem of the married partner. Self awareness and self analysis may be helpful, though.

 

I'm not recommending it as "the answer" - I wouldn't recommend any single strategy as "the answer for all cases - but it certainly can help in some cases, to recover self-esteem. Assuming, of course, that in the particular case the benefits outweighed the costs - which, as we know, isn't always the case!

[luvmy2ns]

The one best answer to raise self esteem comes from within. If you are being regarded as "part of the furniture" (and I SO know where you're coming from on that!), then stand up for yourself and make yourself and your needs heard. The H or W doesn't care? Show 'em the door! Then you're free to find someone who will care, and they are free to find a doormat to partner up with.

 

Cheating may raise self esteem, but eventually SOMETHING is going to give. Eventually the S is gonna hit the proverbial fan. Cheating is only a temporary fix to a long term problem.

[OWoman]

The one best answer to raise self esteem comes from within. If you are being regarded as "part of the furniture" (and I SO know where you're coming from on that!), then stand up for yourself and make yourself and your needs heard. The H or W doesn't care? Show 'em the door! Then you're free to find someone who will care, and they are free to find a doormat to partner up with.

 

Cheating may raise self esteem, but eventually SOMETHING is going to give. Eventually the S is gonna hit the proverbial fan. Cheating is only a temporary fix to a long term problem.

 

Yep I agree with that - though sometimes, that kick start is enough to get things moving to a more permanent fix.

 

There is a risk, though, that the temp fix becomes so comfy that a permanent resolution gets put on the back burner. I think the French have an expression that says, "there's nothing as permanent as a temporary solution".

[pollywag]

Cheating raises self esteem because a person is not going to cheat with a dog speaking in terms of attraction, unless of course the dog looks like me in which case some people like the fantasy of the whore/nun persona, but in most cases the affair partner is much more sexually appealing than the spouse. They are more more fun to look at and "new" so this on its own catapults the ego into outer limits it. It even gives the cheating spouse sometimes enough energy to actually want to pay attention to their spouse in a sexual way.

[OWoman]

Cheating raises self esteem because a person is not going to cheat with a dog speaking in terms of attraction

 

Usually, polly, but one of my colleagues (who's really pretty) was distraught when she discovered that her H's AP was as attractive as the back of a bus. It was THAT - the cheating down - rather than the cheating itself that cut her up the most. As if it pegged her (the W) as less attractive even than that.

[silktricks]

In some cases, though, it's not "two or more", it's only the AP doting on the MP. The BS has long since ceased to dote, has come to regard the MP as part of the furniture, and to take them for granted. And this is as much for Ws as for Hs - sometimes the H sees their W simply as the mother of the kids and the cook and cleaner, and her self-esteem as woman hits rock bottom. When an OM comes along and finds her a goddess, how's her self-esteem not going to perk up?

and, of course, this is true. Her/his self-esteem will perk up - at least for a time. How long it perks up for will depend somewhat upon her basic personality. My H, for example, definitely did perk up his self-esteem in the short term. Long-term, however, his self-esteem has been shaken to the core. I hope it does recover in time, but it's been four years and he's not the same yet.

 

 

 

Silk I'm sure that is sometimes (oftentimes? Not sure. Never done a count) the case, but equally being taken for granted and reduced to a "role" within an M can wear away at self-esteem. I've seen lots of this among colleagues - some of them leaders in their fields - who are very receptive to the first bit of positive feedback form some secretary or student who makes them feel special again.

OWoman, nit-picking is beneath you. Often is more than some, some is more than a few. It's not a percentage after all . You are, of course, correct that being taken for granted can wear away at self-esteem. As I said before, though, I don't believe that cheating is a long-term fix - or any real fix. I see it as a band-aid at best and a considerable blow to real self-esteem at worst.

 

 

 

 

I'm not recommending it as "the answer" - I wouldn't recommend any single strategy as "the answer for all cases - but it certainly can help in some cases, to recover self-esteem. Assuming, of course, that in the particular case the benefits outweighed the costs - which, as we know, isn't always the case!

[pollywag]

Usually, polly, but one of my colleagues (who's really pretty) was distraught when she discovered that her H's AP was as attractive as the back of a bus. It was THAT - the cheating down - rather than the cheating itself that cut her up the most. As if it pegged her (the W) as less attractive even than that.

 

That is a good yet not so common example. I can only imagine just how devestating it must be to get cheated on with someone even lower than themselves. That must be the ultimate blow to the betrayed person's ego. I can imagine these things happen but also that they are rare. Speaking of rare happenings...Sister Hertudis at one point was convinced that she saw God but she was also convinced that Jesus was a cloaked dwarf. At first we thought she was on the wagon again hitting the sauce but then gave her the benefit of the doubt because it is not uncommon for nuns to experience stigmata. Well we later came to realise that we were right, she hadn't seen god, in fact Tinker Paws, the house pet cat, had gotten his head stuck around the handle of a Walmart bag and with the casting of shadows in her room it appeared like a walking cloaked midget. As mother magdalen always tells us "if not for what we cannot see where would we all be?" and we usually break out into philosophical discussion because we kind of get what she means but we kind of dont.

[silktricks]

That is a good yet not so common example. I can only imagine just how devestating it must be to get cheated on with someone even lower than themselves. That must be the ultimate blow to the betrayed person's ego. I can imagine these things happen but also that they are rare.

 

I think this is wrong, personally. To follow the argument that the person is having an affair because of low self-esteem, then it is much more likely IMO that they will have the affair with someone who is not as smart, pretty/handsome, capable, etc as their spouse. After all, they are looking to increase their self-esteem - not lower it further .

[luvmy2ns]

That is a good yet not so common example. I can only imagine just how devestating it must be to get cheated on with someone even lower than themselves. That must be the ultimate blow to the betrayed person's ego. I can imagine these things happen but also that they are rare. Speaking of rare happenings...Sister Hertudis at one point was convinced that she saw God but she was also convinced that Jesus was a cloaked dwarf. At first we thought she was on the wagon again hitting the sauce but then gave her the benefit of the doubt because it is not uncommon for nuns to experience stigmata. Well we later came to realise that we were right, she hadn't seen god, in fact Tinker Paws, the house pet cat, had gotten his head stuck around the handle of a Walmart bag and with the casting of shadows in her room it appeared like a walking cloaked midget. As mother magdalen always tells us "if not for what we cannot see where would we all be?" and we usually break out into philosophical discussion because we kind of get what she means but we kind of dont.

 

First let me say that looks alone do not place people on a scale of better or worse. I'm sure we all know that though. Secondly, it could be that this gal is SO not used to attention from men due to her looks that she glommed onto whatever she could get and was fawning over this MM like he was some sort of demi-god.

 

Thirdly, that was DAMN funny!

[pollywag]

First let me say that looks alone do not place people on a scale of better or worse.

Sure it does. Brad Pitt is better looking than Carrot Top. One is on the better scale of the other. Is that you in your profile picture by the way?

[pollywag]

I think this is wrong, personally. To follow the argument that the person is having an affair because of low self-esteem, then it is much more likely IMO that they will have the affair with someone who is not as smart, pretty/handsome, capable, etc as their spouse. After all, they are looking to increase their self-esteem - not lower it further .

 

I never said a person has an affair because of low self esteem, I say it is more because they find someone better to pass their time with. What that "better" is made up of, only the person cheating knows.

[Lizzie60]

No, I've seen too much abusive behavior between couples to believe that a person in a miserable R is always 100% responsible for their own unhappiness. Just getting away from a poisonous person can make all the difference in one's own happiness barometer.

 

And I believe that many S's who cheat do so (at least in part) to detox and neutralize some of that poison that's been building up in their M... so that they can at least tolerate it, live with it, and not go mad.

 

Good point..

[OWoman]

I think this is wrong, personally. To follow the argument that the person is having an affair because of low self-esteem, then it is much more likely IMO that they will have the affair with someone who is not as smart, pretty/handsome, capable, etc as their spouse. After all, they are looking to increase their self-esteem - not lower it further .

 

OTC Silk - the ego boost from being seen / associated with some svelte hottie rather than the boring fat W (to fall back on the stereotype) does wonders for the ego! It speaks of pulling power and unquenchable virility and all kinds of "status" attributes that make other guys look on in envy, and other women look on in interest. (Or curiosity, if they're clearly mismatched!)

[pollywag]

OTC Silk - the ego boost from being seen / associated with some svelte hottie rather than the boring fat W (to fall back on the stereotype) does wonders for the ego! It speaks of pulling power and unquenchable virility and all kinds of "status" attributes that make other guys look on in envy, and other women look on in interest. (Or curiosity, if they're clearly mismatched!)

 

That's just it. Luvmy2ns you and carrot Top should probably stick together, you seem "nice" and he seems "nice" and you are better matched tha with someone like Brad Pitt. What does Luv my 2 "ns" mean anyway?

[pollywag]

It can all become such a vicious circle of nobody does anything to fix the R. The wife gets fat because of who knows what, the guy loses interest because she's fat, his self esteem wanes because sex is old and boring (and his W isn't as sexy as she used to be). He finds an OW, the W finds out, she gains MORE weight because now she feels even worse than she did before.

 

 

Both need to keep in mind that they BOTH need to be happy in the M. I hate it when people say, "You should love me for who I am inside!" when they gain weight. While that is definitely true (harking back on that comment about looks alone making a person better or not), a thin b--ch is NOT a good person to be with, and a good person who is extremely overweight just doesn't usually turn most people on sexually. I'm someone who needs to feel lust for my man. That's just who I am. That's not to say that he has to be perfect, but he has to at least maintain some semblence of height-weight proportion.

Sometimes it has nothing to do with getting fat or not it just has to do with a person getting ugly from the inside and out and what once seemed like a good on the ouside is not glaringly obvious was never really that good afterall.