Guys: It's Our Fault

[Lovelybird]

I know that being emotionally needy, and subservient is never an attractive quality. However, I too often hear women complaining about how insensitive men are. When we try to cater to their needs, then we're too effeminate. Some of us try to over compensate this fault by being machismo, which doesn't work out too well either. It's confusing...

 

I'm just following the policy of being myself, but knowing that I need to become a stronger person. We can all improve. I never again want to be dependent on anyone for my own happiness. I'll be a man and stand up for my partner, but I'll listen to what she has to say. I just won't lower myself to let her disrespect me, and accept it in the name of love.

you nailed it

[roghornio]

Even before the breakup, I was of the mindframe that basically everything that happened to me really happened because of me.

 

That is to say, we are all active participants in our lives and that everything that happens is, in one way or another, our doing or our fault.

 

Of course there are exceptions: getting T-boned at a red light, getting laid off from a failing company, etc. But for the most part, we bring things on ourselves.

 

This is especially true with relationships. I let my ex get away with things that I wouldn't have tolerated from anyone else. I loved her, yes, but I am now understanding that perhaps the biggest motivator was sex.

 

She won't sleep with me if she's mad at me! How do I keep her from being mad at me? Well, I'll just agree with everything she says, everything she does, and generally indulge her brattiness!

 

This went on for years. I feared a pussy-free life and I let her do whatever she wanted, including disrespecting me. This went on until the very end. As a result, I lost any manhood I had assembled before meeting her.

 

Look at society now. We have crossed the point of equal rights. Men are viewed cynically. How many jokes about guys are out there? We're the brunt of neo-female aggression. Reparations for the mistreatment of women in the earlier 20th century have created the PC demasculization of man.

 

Men have become "sensitive, new age" types. (Citing No More Mr. Nice Guy here.) They've done this in an attempt to level the playing field, to make women feel comfortable. To "get in touch with their feminine side."

 

All that that has done is to make women dislike us. They don't want us to be like them. They want us to be the opposite of them. Where do you think the saying "Opposites Attract" came from?

 

So, here we are, a bunch of metrosexual effeminate men who bow our heads to our domineering girlfriends.

 

What the f*ck have we become?

 

It's all our fault that we got dumped, guys. We didn't stick to our principles and we let them walk ALL OVER us out of FEAR. We lost our f*cking balls. We bought into the myth of the modern man. We put the pussy on a pedestal (40 year old virgin, yeah!) and sold ourselves out to the American Dream of the picket fence, blahblahblah.

 

At least I did, anyway. And I'm admitting it and probably offending people. But that's me, and that's who SHE suppressed in me for the last 3 years.

 

Frightengly true. The first few months of my last one I was quite aloof – she did a lot of the chasing. I knew she liked me a lot so I just sat back and enjoyed the ride. Around a month before we split – I turned the tables, I turned it on WAY too much… I started panicking she didn’t like me so much. I guess I became kind of “clingy” (I hate that word) .. and she ran.

 

I’ve learned my lesson in one of the must brutal ways I can imagine.

I will not make that mistake again.

[Woggle]

Men if we wanted and did it in unison could stop feminism in it's tracks but that won't happen anytime soon. The only reason women are able to act this way and get away with it is because some men with no balls let them. Men have become afraid to put a woman in check when she acts in an uncalled for manner these days and when we allow them to walk all over this they lose respect for us. I am not talking about physical violence but if a woman is acting up don't be afraid to put her in her place. Only respect her if she is willing to respect you.

[kizik]

Men have become afraid to put a woman in check when she acts in an uncalled for manner these days and when we allow them to walk all over this they lose respect for us.

 

Woggle,

 

well-said. I am totally beating myself up as of late b/c I allowed her to walk on me. For me the hardest part right now is to NOT go into my head and think about, "If I'd only stood up then, put my foot down..." The fact is that I didn't, but I will next time (without being OVERLY critical, just reasonable).

 

I had a BIG moment yesterday when some users helped me realize how IMMATURE, CHILDISH and INSANE she is. Fact is this woman did not deserve my kindness and attentiveness, and she'll realize that someday I'm sure. Or not. But whatever, I'm a better person than that bitch.

[Woggle]

Woggle,

 

well-said. I am totally beating myself up as of late b/c I allowed her to walk on me. For me the hardest part right now is to NOT go into my head and think about, "If I'd only stood up then, put my foot down..." The fact is that I didn't, but I will next time (without being OVERLY critical, just reasonable).

 

I had a BIG moment yesterday when some users helped me realize how IMMATURE, CHILDISH and INSANE she is. Fact is this woman did not deserve my kindness and attentiveness, and she'll realize that someday I'm sure. Or not. But whatever, I'm a better person than that bitch.

 

She may realize it or she may find another victim but she isn't your problem anymore and I hope you keep it that way.

[kizik]

She may realize it or she may find another victim but she isn't your problem anymore and I hope you keep it that way.

 

Thanks for the insights. Yes, I will keep it that way. So will she. Everyone wins.

[whateverwillbe]

Woggle,

 

well-said. I am totally beating myself up as of late b/c I allowed her to walk on me. For me the hardest part right now is to NOT go into my head and think about, "If I'd only stood up then, put my foot down..." The fact is that I didn't, but I will next time (without being OVERLY critical, just reasonable).

 

I had a BIG moment yesterday when some users helped me realize how IMMATURE, CHILDISH and INSANE she is. Fact is this woman did not deserve my kindness and attentiveness, and she'll realize that someday I'm sure. Or not. But whatever, I'm a better person than that bitch.

 

I am glad you are realizing this. There are plenty of women who are attractive, kind, loving, non-bitchy who are searching for a kind, loving, non-ass****. One who will treat them with respect and will give their man the respect they deserve.

 

But, be careful on your terminology. Women are not and should not be thought of as a pussy. To do things for someone for fear of not getting pussy is pathetic. You should do it for them and their "pussy" should be a wonderful thing that is shared with the man who treats them well. But honestly, don't try if you treat them badly.

 

You ex sounds like a self-absorbed, chronic pms-er. I use pms, with much pain, because I honestly feel that saying a women's reason for being a bitch is that they have pms, is just about the biggest crock of s**t ever used by women. I don't care what your hormones are doing, it is never an excuse to be hurtful, non-respectful, and just down-right mean to others.

 

So keep on looking. You will find a woman that appreciates you for you. No one is perfect. Everyone is entitled to have a bad day. But if someone loves you, you are allowed. And that is because you allow them. As one poster said, it is all a give and take. No one should always be giving and no one should always be taking. It should be both for both.

 

I am glad you are getting a lot of good advice. I would just hate to see any good guy, decide to be a bad guy, just because someone didn't appreciate you for it-----she didn't deserve it. You deserve better.

[kizik]

But, be careful on your terminology. Women are not and should not be thought of as a pussy.

 

I completely agree. Don't get me wrong--I loved this girl. But yes, I let her be an insane, childish c*nt, b/c I wanted to get laid. Also b/c I didn't know if she was crazy or what.

 

Sometimes, when the person you're with is all you have, and you have a sh*tty family you don't talk to and no role models - you don't know what is normal and/or acceptable.

 

I would just hate to see any good guy, decide to be a bad guy, just because someone didn't appreciate you for it-----she didn't deserve it. You deserve better.

 

Thank you so much WWB for your encouragement. No, I'm not going to be a bad guy, just a hell of a lot more aware of the kind of things I had to deal with.

 

I think people need to understand (and probably do), is that when you're me - you don't want your R to end. And you will do anything to keep it alive. Especially when that insane person you're with has you CONVINCED that YOU'RE the reason it's not working.

 

I stayed with her because I loved her.

[Angel1111]

Some people believe that we attract even the t-bone incident at the light.

 

Lots of people give up parts of themselves in order to keep a relationship going - hence the popularity of LS, for example. And then you learn. I guess things can be confusing for men but all you can really do is be who you are and don't compromise on your values. Anyone who loves you will not walk all over you or disrespect you. If they do, you have to stop it immediately because women in particular do not respect men who don't stand their ground.

[kizik]

Anyone who loves you will not walk all over you or disrespect you. If they do, you have to stop it immediately because women in particular do not respect men who don't stand their ground.

 

Yes. I know, I know, and thank you. The unfortunate fact right now is that I can't go back in the past and tell her to shut the f*ck up. I didn't stop her immediately. In fact I never stopped her. I got pushed away until I said, "Look, I can't deal with this anymore."

 

YES - men have to stand their ground. PEOPLE do. I didn't. And every time someone tells me I should have I'm like, yeah, that's true. But said insight won't help me for another FEW YEARS when some new chick tries to challenge me in a similar manner.

 

This is what I'm talking about in regards to living in a world of regret. I REGRET all day that I didn't say these simple words: "Stop it."

 

But if SHE was a compassionate soul in the FIRST place, she wouldn't have put me in that predicament. What I'm saying is: people need boundaries, but only the immature ones MAKE you set them.

[Woggle]

Women who like to push around some wimpy in order to make themselves feel strong are not very strong at all. It does not take strength to bully the weak and the vulnerable which these weak men are. I would love to see one of these women get in the face of some neanderthal wifebeater or a pimp and start telling him off. I would like to see them go to the middle east and start spouting off. If they are so strong and assertive then they should pick a man who will not hesitate to hit back. Not saying that men like this are right but if a woman is really Ms Badass then take on some real challenges.

[Chrome Barracuda]

We as men get blaimed for alot of bull****.

 

You gotta get used to it.

 

When it happens and you know your innocent just laugh in her face and walk away. That will make her look stupid. lol.

[extraordinarymachine]

Women who like to push around some wimpy in order to make themselves feel strong are not very strong at all. It does not take strength to bully the weak and the vulnerable which these weak men are. I would love to see one of these women get in the face of some neanderthal wifebeater or a pimp and start telling him off. I would like to see them go to the middle east and start spouting off. If they are so strong and assertive then they should pick a man who will not hesitate to hit back. Not saying that men like this are right but if a woman is really Ms Badass then take on some real challenges.

 

I'm trying to understand what you are saying without completely losing my mind, but men who hurt women and men who oppress them in the Middle East are wrong too. Since when is it OK physically hurt a woman because she dares speak her mind? This is very backward thinking, you spoke earlier of stopping feminism but this mindset is why we need feminism. We don't need to be put in our place for having our own opinions and life choices any more than men do. Being strong and assertive is different from being abusive. I don't advocate being abusive, but no woman (or man for that matter) deserves to be a second-class citizen or have the crap beaten out of them for being assertive.

 

It cannot be said ENOUGH...this is NOT a GENDERED ISSUE. It is an issue of respect as it pertains to ALL PARTNERS.

[Woggle]

I'm trying to understand what you are saying without completely losing my mind, but men who hurt women and men who oppress them in the Middle East are wrong too. Since when is it OK physically hurt a woman because she dares speak her mind? This is very backward thinking, you spoke earlier of stopping feminism but this mindset is why we need feminism. We don't need to be put in our place for having our own opinions and life choices any more than men do. Being strong and assertive is different from being abusive. I don't advocate being abusive, but no woman (or man for that matter) deserves to be a second-class citizen or have the crap beaten out of them for being assertive.

 

It cannot be said ENOUGH...this is NOT a GENDERED ISSUE. It is an issue of respect as it pertains to ALL PARTNERS.

 

 

I don't believe that anybody man or woman should be abused or that what goes on in the middle east is right but there are some women who get involved with weak man who won't yell back or tend to verbally abuse wimpy men who are afraid to stand up for themselves. What I am saying is that if they really are as strong and tough as they claim to be they should stand up to men who really do pose a threat to women and not their whipped boyfriend or husband who apologizes for his existence. My point is that a truly strong person does not bully the weak. It's the same reason why Bush goes into Iraq but he wouldn't dare try that crap with North Korea.

[extraordinarymachine]

My point is that a truly strong person does not bully the weak.

 

Then we agree.

 

I still think the bottom line is that emotional, verbal, and physical abuse, in all forms, from all genders, is not ok. The end.

[Woggle]

Then we agree.

 

I still think the bottom line is that emotional, verbal, and physical abuse, in all forms, from all genders, is not ok. The end.

 

I agree but it is good sometimes to see a bully get their just due. I admit I would get a sick pleasure out of seeing some of these radical feminists in the middle east.

[whateverwillbe]

I agree but it is good sometimes to see a bully get their just due. I admit I would get a sick pleasure out of seeing some of these radical feminists in the middle east.

 

 

Well, I hope you would get the same sick pleasure out of seeing young men who treat woman as objects get their due? You may need some serious counseling on why you hate women.

 

I don't like mean men or women. I agree that this is not gender based. There are a lot of women who do the same thing for fear of losing their mate. They deal with abuse, too.

 

It is simple........get out of that type of relationship. Easier said than done, I know. One day she may end up in a relationship where she is the weaker of the partner. My guess is that she won't. And I can only hope that the next person she has isn't so weakened for fear of not getting "some". She is a bi***. I am just glad the op won't put up with that anymore.

[whateverwillbe]

BTW- Woogle---

 

I am not a feminist in any way shape or form. However, I do believe that as humans, we all have the right to live free from being "owned" by someone. Women are not the lessor sex, we are simply a different sex. Men are stronger, physically. Their genetic makeup is different. There is no way men and women will be equal. But under no means does that mean women should be bullied around, deserve less, be treated as less, etc. That is crap.

[Angel1111]

What I'm saying is: people need boundaries, but only the immature ones MAKE you set them.

 

Mostly that is true but this is the funny thing about how life works. As soon as you decide that you will no longer tolerate these immature people in your life, they will stop showing up. You stop attracting them. Don't ask me why that is, but that's the way it works.

 

I've been with people like this and can save you all this energy you're wasting on regret. It really would not have mattered what you did because when people inherently don't respect basic boundaries, they just don't. If you had stood your ground with her, then she would've stopped acting that way temporarily - and then you'd be back to square one again - or one of your would've left. You got a very clear picture of what she was like and saw what she was made of. That was a glimpse of what marriage would've been like with her and the never-ending battle for you to be treated respectfully. This argument with her would've never ended.

 

So, just make the decision now that you won't let this kind of person into your life again. You didn't do anything that horrible except give someone the benefit of the doubt. She abused it. Even if you got another shot with her, even if you had done everything right in the beginning, you would still end up right where you are now. It wasn't fixable.

[CailinPig]

I know what you're saying, yes there were "signs," but she still loved me and still expressed that love and that's what kept me in it. Honestly I don't care to rehash the last three years or the first 1.5 years, b/c it will hurt too much. Oh f*ck it.

 

Signs:

 

-Worrying about talking about people in public. Anyone. The person I mentioned could be in another country and R would go, "Ssh!"

 

-Talking to her parents every day. Exchanging text messages and picture messages multiple times a day. Obviously still tied to the umbilical cord. (This would occur whether or not I was around.)

 

-Her expressing that her dad had basically said I was a loser. Her ambivalence about my career choice (lack thereof).

 

-The total tension when she and my mom and I would get together. Eventually we just stopped seeing my mom.

 

-Her embarrassment about her parents' money. Once we were with friends and I mentioned how nice it was that R lived in the art studio next door to her parents' house. R got f*cking PISSED at me after. Does getting angry at me there make sense to ANYone?

 

 

This one is important:

 

The Hair Incident. She got a bad haircut, really short. Donated the hair to Locks of Love. When she was out of town, I asked if she could send me a picture of her new haircut, "so I could get used to it."

 

People, this elicited the most venomous anger towards me EVER. Culminated with her kicking me out of her house, saying "LEAVE," and crying hysterically.

 

I would really like opinions on that last one.

 

I actualy don't see any of these as sings that she was gonna turn into a domineering gf. I did the first one, sshing my ex when he talked about people cos I was afraid we'd bump into them.

[trulysomething]

The problem as I see it is....nice decent men get treated like crap by a woman...decide after it's over to never be like that again...and the next nice decent woman that comes along and falls for them gets the chitty end of the stick and pays for the way their guy was treated previously

 

so basically, women can't win either...........

 

OMG...that is/was sooooo my situation. I adored him. He was treated badly by his ex and held back emotionally from me and in turn treated me badly. It's taken me months to realize that I don't deserve to be treated this way and he should have respected me the way I did him.

 

Kizik, never stop being a nice guy...gals actually DO love the nice guy!!

[Woggle]

If gals do love the nice guy why does he keep getting dumped and divorced?

[trulysomething]

Well,I guess I believe in the idea that if we do not learn our lesson, we are doomed to repeat it. Falling for the same sort of person over and over again. Certainly true in my case*L*

[ioncebelieved]

If gals do love the nice guy why does he keep getting dumped and divorced?

 

Screw being nice!! Nice guys do in fact finish last!!! How about being a good guy instead of a nice one? That is my new frame set! I am not saying being mean, just be good and Not too sappy. Now there are times when you can share your feelings in a loving way, but if you do it all the time, you will pay the price!! Then you will not like the treatment you just paid way too much for.

[nopainnogain]

"Treat em like dirt and they will stick to ya like mud"

 

"Gotta play em before you get played"