tell me this is the bottom

[verytired]

Went to 'mediation' today. She reitereated that she thinks she should have the house, the kids, my business and all my income etc. when I have done nothing wrong, and she has just decided she wants out because the grass might be greener elsewhere...

 

under legal advice, I chose this to be the moment shen I revealed that I know she has been having an affair, has been snogging and intimate with another man (her boss) and that I am disgusted she can treat me with so little respect.

 

Her response? "I have done nothing wrong. Once I told you the relationship was over I was free to do what I like. I have not had an affair because I have not had penetrative sex" I mean, she's done everything else with this guy, but not 'that' so she says, and therefore it is not an affair? WTF?!.

 

I am devastated (I'm running out of words to describe my heartbrokenness) under UK law, if I throw her out on the street I am inthe wrong. All I can do is hate her and hope to finish this mess as quickly as possible.

 

Really should stop drinking now, but tonight it all feels like it's coming apart. My 15 yr old son just came downstairs for a chat and fessed up to me that his mother has been bullying him about going on trip to see her parents. He doesn't ant to go, but she just keeps digging away at him.

 

I just can't believe this is my life. I tried so hard to keep calm but at one point I totally broke down in that room today and told her I loved her and she is my wife and that if she had a shred of decency in her she would move out. And she just couldn't care less.

[Nomad1]

This is the time to summon every ounce of strength you have. She will become even more hostile with you. It is called projection. Expect that she will get very angry. Don't move out of your house. File for divorce immediately and fight her for custody. That is the only way you can keep your children, house and business.

 

Be strong and act decisively. Of course it is an affair and probably the sole reason for the break up!

 

Where in the UK are you? I have been through something similar over 10 months ago. If you want to talk I can send you my email.

 

Good luck man!

[Mr. Lucky]

Look at it this way - much like a pending root canal, this is something unpleasant that you knew was coming and that you had to get through. The good news is, this probably is the bottom.

 

Follow Nomad1's advice. Get a lawyer and get started. Just the act of doing something proactive will probably make you feel better. At least at this point, the waiting is over and the fight is on...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Gunny376]

Listen up and listen up clear!

 

ARE YOU LISTENTING?

 

You'd better be!

 

You've got about two and half seconds to snap out of your "Poor Is Me ~ Pity Party" Right here and right now ~ because your STBX is about to hand you your AZZ on a platter on the way out the door!

 

There's fixin' to be a WORLD of HURT COME RAINING DOWN ON YOU!

[verytired]

Ermm... have i offended you in some way? Is this your idea of tough love? I am going through the worst sh*t i could ever imagine and I came on here to let it out rather than going up and ringing her stupid f*cking neck and you tell me this is self pity?

 

What exactly WAS the point of your message?

[curiousnycgirl]

I believe Gunny was giving you some tough love - please take it as it was intended - someone who feels for you and who's heart is going out to you during this terrible time in your life.

 

We are all behind you

[verytired]

Sorry. Yes, I am a bit sensitive this last couple of days. I read things in her email that she has been doing with her boss and I think it just pushed me over the edge. I still do maintain that it's good to have a rant and let it out and that this is the place to do it, but I don't mean to offend anyone or bite back at people who are trying to be supportive. It won't happen again and I apologise.

[SingleDad]

verytired - you will find very different kinds of advice here... some will give your the likely harsh realities so that you can learn to deal with it and move on with your life... others will be supportive... others like me will say that you need to do everything you can do to save your marriage when there are kids involved.

 

Legally she is your wife until a divorce is final... a separation or even legal separation does not end the marriage, that is why divorce papers are still needed.

 

My STBXW considers herself divorced as soon as I received her attorney's action for divorce in the mail in January 2008... she took off her ring and I can no longer call her my wife, dear or honey without her yelling at me. So I don't anymore.

 

until a divorce is final, it is still adultery... though today's society seems to think it is ok as long as there is a separation...

 

Don't know your history, but marriages can survive adultery if both spouses want to do the hard work to make it work... sometimes one spouse can do their best to save their marriage... by loving the other spouse in the right way, giving them space, being there for them, being forgiving, etc. I do not know for sure whether she had or is having and affair - that makes it easier, but also harder not knowing my chances.

 

Certainly your Ex does not seem to want reconciliation, nor does mine... but I am not giving in...

 

We also moved to mediation for a legal separation - but you can only do that is both parties can agree on the terms.... your W wanting everything is not negotiating... If she doesn't come to the middle ground, then an attorney may be required.

 

Good luck to you however you choose to proceed.

 

Things to get better with time - I hit a bottom several times... now just have a sense of loneliness... but I am working on resuming communication with STBXW...I have to maintain some hope... I am one of the few who is going to do everything I can to save the marriage, but also strengthen myself as well, so I can survive regardless of the outcome.

[Ladyjane14]

"Gunny" is not just another screen-name. We're talking about a real, live, career gunnery sergeant in the U.S. Marine Corps, albeit retired.

While I hate to put words in his mouth, it looks like he's not here today to explain himself. So, I'll give it a go...

 

When circumstances are at their most dire... it's no time to panic or wallow. What you need in times of crisis is a clear head and a good plan. So, picture yourself pinned down by enemy fire. Are you going to go all to pieces? Or are you going to use your logic, calculate your position, secure your perimeter... and protect your assets?

 

As SingleDad points out... attack plans vary around here. The most important thing is to decide what it is you're trying to accomplish, get a goal, and start making progress towards it. You won't always win the day. But, in the end... you can either take control of your situation or allow your situation to be in control of YOU; control your emotions, or be controlled BY them to the detriment of logical thinking. Which leads us full around to the beginning point....

 

Logic is your best tool, no matter what your selected goal.

[PWSX3]

Wow now that is what you call shutting from the hip (Gunny) & a kind lady telling you it in her way. (LadyJane)

 

It is funny how important communication is & how you word what you say.

[verytired]

I think perhaps I have not given a good account of myself - not filled in the blanks as it were...

 

Apart from one moment of weakness at the mediation session (incidentally when she had just offered the weakest apology imagineable for being shallow, selfish and without morals because the mediator forced her to say the words that any decent person would have said without prompting) I have been a rock in front of her. Furthermore I have secured legal representation, documented all her foolish actions, and secured evidence of her infidelity (not that it is worth much under the law here which refuses to assign blame). I am going to fight not only for what is 'rightfully' mine, but for what is best for my children and I have NO doubt about what that is. She has no idea what she has engaged with. And even though it may not be a popular viewpoint these days - God is on my side.

 

What I am struggling with, however, is the thought of my wife, my lovely beautiful cherished wife, getting down to it with another man, the incomprehensible offense of her treating me with consummate disrespect after all these years, and the slight inevitable niggling fear that it will all go horribly wrong and she'll end up with custody of my kids which will ruin their lives as well as mine.

 

In the light of all that it seemed to me that this place might be a good place, surrounded by kindred spirits, to air the dark side of me, the side that I cannot possibly show to anyone who knows me or knows my 'wife' etc. I thought this might be the place where I could vent the pain and frustration honestly and openly, where I did not have to play games and put on a 'front' for anyone's benefit.

 

You weren't to know that of course. You may have read my posts and though I was a wet blanket, a feeble minded man wallowing in his own agony without realising that war has been engaged and you win a war strategically and one battle at a time without remorse until the enemy submits to your superiority.

 

To the world that knows me, I'm not that weak man. but, I needed to cry while no-one was looking. Just needed an arm around my shoulder. Just needed someone to say "what she is doing is totally wrong and you don't deserve this"

 

Thanks for listening - every one.

[Blue Eyed Brain]

Dear OP:

 

I feel for you. However, you need to realise that the woman you married no longer wants a life with you, for whatever reason. Once you have accepted this, you will be less angry and will be beginning a new life for yourself. Do you have kids? If so, divorce is in many cases better than two unhappy people living together.

 

When the parents stay together for the sake of the kids, the kids know there's something wrong but don't know exactly. They will continue with the same problems you have when they seek out relationships. And hence, the pattern continues. Consider this a brave lesson to teach your children..... that it is brave to seek happiness instead of stay when there is little love left.

 

It will teach the kids to be strong and not weak. A hard lesson, but an important one.

[Gunny376]

I think perhaps I have not given a good account of myself - not filled in the blanks as it were...

 

Apart from one moment of weakness at the mediation session (incidentally when she had just offered the weakest apology imagineable for being shallow, selfish and without morals because the mediator forced her to say the words that any decent person would have said without prompting) I have been a rock in front of her. Furthermore I have secured legal representation, documented all her foolish actions, and secured evidence of her infidelity (not that it is worth much under the law here which refuses to assign blame). I am going to fight not only for what is 'rightfully' mine, but for what is best for my children and I have NO doubt about what that is. She has no idea what she has engaged with. And even though it may not be a popular viewpoint these days - God is on my side.

 

What I am struggling with, however, is the thought of my wife, my lovely beautiful cherished wife, getting down to it with another man, the incomprehensible offense of her treating me with consummate disrespect after all these years, and the slight inevitable niggling fear that it will all go horribly wrong and she'll end up with custody of my kids which will ruin their lives as well as mine.

 

In the light of all that it seemed to me that this place might be a good place, surrounded by kindred spirits, to air the dark side of me, the side that I cannot possibly show to anyone who knows me or knows my 'wife' etc. I thought this might be the place where I could vent the pain and frustration honestly and openly, where I did not have to play games and put on a 'front' for anyone's benefit.

 

You weren't to know that of course. You may have read my posts and though I was a wet blanket, a feeble minded man wallowing in his own agony without realising that war has been engaged and you win a war strategically and one battle at a time without remorse until the enemy submits to your superiority.

 

To the world that knows me, I'm not that weak man. but, I needed to cry while no-one was looking. Just needed an arm around my shoulder. Just needed someone to say "what she is doing is totally wrong and you don't deserve this"

 

Thanks for listening - every one.

 

My point?

 

Was that you needed to get your head and azz wired together quick, fast, and in a hurry like! The STBXW is in complete denial about the reality of the situation ~ the proverbial "affair fog" that "cheaters" such as she is going through. And that if you didnt' get it together rather quickly you could find yourself living in a world of hurt that could and would literally take years for you to recover from.

 

The STBXW is not the woman that you feel in love with and married all those many yeas ago. That woman is dead and long gone.

 

When we get married, we actually marry three ~ sometimes four different people.'s

 

The person we think we're marrying?

 

The person we're actually marry.

 

And the person that comes about as a result of having married you!

 

The fourth potential person that we marry, is the one that we come face to face with in a divorce court ~ as in ~ "I can't believe that's the same woman I've been married to all these years?!"

 

More often than not, the BS (Betrayed Spouse) will climb up and hang themselves on a "lover's cross" and cruicify themselves sometimes in the vain but misguided hope of winning their spouse back. It doesn't work ~ never has worked ~ and never will work.

 

In closing you sound as though you're doing what needs to be done. Taking the steps that although painfull are so necessary to protect yourself from a wayward wife who feels she's entitled.

 

Apolgies, (that's rare coming from me) if you mis-understood my post~ (I missed the UK link, and would have worded thing differently had I seen it. A lot was lost in the implying and inferring process)

 

One last thing, ~ if your already depressed about the situation ~ lay off the booze ~ booze is a depresent ~ and if your already depressed? Its like through gasoline (Sorry Petro) on an all ready raging fire! Exercise, go for a long walk, physically exert yourself, join the gym, get and stay busy like you've never been before. If your not sleeping well, your simply aren't exerting enough physical energy.

 

Good luck and keep posting.

[Gunny376]

"Gunny" is not just another screen-name. We're talking about a real, live, career gunnery sergeant in the U.S. Marine Corps, albeit retired.

While I hate to put words in his mouth, it looks like he's not here today to explain himself. So, I'll give it a go...

 

When circumstances are at their most dire... it's no time to panic or wallow. What you need in times of crisis is a clear head and a good plan. So, picture yourself pinned down by enemy fire. Are you going to go all to pieces? Or are you going to use your logic, calculate your position, secure your perimeter... and protect your assets?

 

As SingleDad points out... attack plans vary around here. The most important thing is to decide what it is you're trying to accomplish, get a goal, and start making progress towards it. You won't always win the day. But, in the end... you can either take control of your situation or allow your situation to be in control of YOU; control your emotions, or be controlled BY them to the detriment of logical thinking. Which leads us full around to the beginning point....

 

Logic is your best tool, no matter what your selected goal.

 

"EX-ACTOMOTO!"

 

Couldn't have put it better myself LJ.

 

Do understand that you (the OP) are now in an advisary relationship with the soon to be X-wife. She is not your friend, and you must therefore think in terms of the tactical (the small firefights to come) ~ and the strategic/macro (the larger scheme of things ~ not to mention the long term)

[verytired]

All,

 

This business is exhausting isn't it?! I cannot sleep properly (and yes Gunny in the last month I have converted 1 stone of fat to pure muscle and lost loads of weight through my exertions) but I am tired all the time. I spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure her out when in truth it doesn't matter at all why she has done what she has done. It's done and that's the end ot it. Move on.

 

It is my son's birthday today. We are going out for a meal together (the 4 of us) which all of us dread, but none of us want to be the one to call it off. I have to be asking myself why everything I held dear has turned to sh*t.

 

Between you and I (and no, I would not let anyone else hear me say this, especially her) right now I want very much to just run away. I live in the South of London Uk, but a few years ago I visited America and was particularly taken with New York. The voices in my head keep saying " there's work there for someone with your skills and it's going to break your heart not to see your kids every day, so why don't you go re-invent yourself?"

 

There is much talk of strength and digging deep here, but man it is hard sometimes isn't it?

 

G.,

 

I have read enough of your stuff to know you are a man with a big heart, so I'm not going to say anything other than thank you for caring enough to want to respond. I truly do value your input. The four women is right on the money too, although I suspect if I were to say to my wife "I have had sex with four women since I married you", it might not work so well as an analogy.

 

nomad,

 

Projection theory was bang on, yesterday we had total fury, today we had floods of tears and protestations of innocence, all in the name of shifting the blame. I am glad you made me see it for what it was. I know there is worse to come from this slut.

 

SingleDad,

 

I always told her we could work through anything except infidelity. She told me this morning that it meant nothing to her that she was unfaithful earlier this week, like that was supposed to make me feel better?! I can not, will not forgive her doing the one thing she has always known I will not accept, so it is over. Totally, irreconcillably over. I envy you your application to the task, but I know enough about myself to know that I still love her but I have started to hate her as well and that tide is shifting in one direction only. Oh and she is a rotten mother to my son and I think he will be better off without her.

[SingleDad]

verytired - I too have have the thoughts to just run away from it all - or more precisely, crawl under a rock...

 

But you cannot do that - you have kids who do not deserve any of what is happpening to their family.

 

Now the family has to be re-defined... You and the kids are one family and your W and kids are the other family.

 

An affair must be ended and not do it again for there to be any possibility of forgiveness. Just having another affair last week is so wrong - and she said it meant nothing... so then don't do it... It seems like she is not capable of remaining faithful, unfortunately.

 

Very good of you to get together as a family for son's Birthday. Note if you and W can't do it amicably, then you may need to have 2 parties - one with Father and one with mother.

[Gunny376]

Yes the entire process is vchollogyery exhausting, mentally, physically, emotionally, etc.

[verytired]

Been a month since I posted this. So much has happened, and then again so much has still NOT happened.

 

Spent most of the last month not talking and being very angry. She spent it going out and refusing to tell me where. I Went away for a few days with my son while she went away with our daughter. Helped me to think clearly for the first time in ages. So, 10 days ago I wrote to her and told her I'd had enough. I have arranged to borrow as much money as I need to divorce her with a good lawyer to the full extent of the law (even though in UK law they tend to give everything to the mother, I will fight as hard and as long as I can to see that this is not so) and I have made a proposal to her that our son live with me (he is closer to me and needs a man role model in his life every day) and our daughter lives with her, with a schedule of each child being with theother parent and each other very regularly. I proposed a clean 50/50 split of debts and assets so we both walk away with equal equity. We've both contributed to where we are today, I figure that's the fair thing to do. I tell her she has til 25th August to decide and then if she doesn't accept, I'll divorce her cheating, lying, lazy, money-grubbing ass.

 

On 24th August she says "let's go and talk about all this" After 5 hours of arguing she has agreed my residency proposal, but wants a larger slice of the equity. She says "I gave up my career to look after the kids, so you have a greater earnings potential than me, so I should get more of the cash" I don't agree. It's not my fault she wants to opt out of our life - why should I be financially penalised? Then she says "actually it is not my fault either. it is not my fault I don't love you, and i'm not sure I ever did" I am gobsmacked. Well, whose fault is it then? I never forced you to marry me, to give up work, to enjoy 2 foreign holidays a year and new clothes every month and... oh i'm wasting my breath. She just wants the money. THe only reason she wants custody of both kids is so she can get more money and the house. I give up. I agree to give her a bigger slice if it will get me separate from this woman quicker. It's only money. I can always make some more and not share it with her.

 

So, finally the dust settles.

 

Yesterday I had to sit down and tell my son the news. That was pretty awful. Actually he just came into the room and caught me crying writing this. I do ALL my crying in private these days, but I never heard him coming. Still not a bad thing for him to know that his dad is not ashamed to cry and is hurting. I have only shown him my brave face up to now, but I don't want him to think that's the only way strong men can be. Sometimes it takes a strong man to not be afraid to cry. This morning we told our daughter, but she's only 10 and doesn't realsie the implications of it all in the same way. My stbx wanted us to say "sometimes people fall out of love and it's perfectly normal and healthy and nothing to worry about", but I refused. I still love her and she has broken my heart - why should I tell them this is normal and OK? I knew she wouldn't take responsibility for telling them the news, so I had to do all the talking. I told them it was all very sad and tragic but that we'd all get better with time and that it was not at all their fault and that I loved them both to bits. I wanted to say it was our fault and we were sorry but the stbx refused that one because "it's no-ones fault it just happened" What a load of crap.

 

The trouble is, I still don't actually see how we will move forward from here.

 

We need to sell the house and I intend to move into rented accomodation with my boy for a while to lick my wounds and just take some time out to decide what to do next rather than rush into anything. She has very little income (despite being and intelligent, capable woman - she doesn't want to make any effort to support herself) and will not contribute anything to the costs of selling. I don't know how she will find somewhere else to live - she can't afford it, unless she intends to spend her share of the equity on something. I don't know how she will make ends meet - she is terrible at managing finances. I don't really see that any of that is my problem, but having told the kids we're separating and ruined their lives I pretty much feel we have to act on it and actually MOVE ON. I would dearly love to just move out, but if I did she'd try to claim the house and I'd lose ALL my equity which would leave me in a difficult financial situation.

So there still seem to be so many mountains ahead. And she appears determined to contribute nothing other than criticism and negativity. So, much like the last 16 years then.

 

Anyway, I don't really know why I'm posting other than I'm feeling very low and alone and every time I post on here great people encourage me and give me strength to cope... so, here goes.

 

If you have anything to say, I'd love to hear it.

[LovesNotEnough]

Hi Verytired

It's good to hear you've survived a month of this hell so far. Folks on here keep telling you to get on with it, don't let her get the upper hand and I am sure you are on your game as much as you can be.

But all this is a process, as well. It is a death, so to speak, of something you loved and treasured. You are grieving. It is good in a lot of ways that your son knows the depth of your sorrow. What would he learn if he thought you didn't care? Your kids are watching you both very closely to see how this process works and what their role is in it. That probably makes you mad, too, that they have to learn this and go through it, too.

You WILL survive and so will the kids.

You sound like a very caring, sensitive man in love with a shallow selfish woman that you just happen to love as well. This, too, will change as the process unfolds and you see her more as she really is, instead of how you thought she was.

Hang in there, you sound like you're doing ok, believe it or not. Try to take one mountain at a time instead of looking ahead at all of them at once. Take one day at a time, one problem at a time and show your kids what great character you have!

[pelicanpreacher]

Do not allow your stbxw to have primary custody of either children else they may grow up to become the same vacuous dysfunctional person she is as adults! Keep a constant vigil on your children and try to maintain positive communication with them no matter what their mother says or does. This will pay off in major dividends as they grow older and make up their own minds as to which role model to follow.

[pelicanpreacher]

Do not allow your stbxw to have primary custody of either children else they may grow up to become the same vacuous dysfunctional person she is as adults! Keep a constant vigil on your children and try to maintain positive communication with them no matter what their mother says or does. This will pay off in major dividends as they grow older and make up their own minds as to which role model to follow.

 

I'd also like to add that maybe you should tell your children the truth when the time is right as she quoted "I don't love you and I'm not sure I ever did" and that she conned you into believing she truly loved you so you'd marry and financially support her with a lifestyle she could never have afforded on her own!

[Mr. Lucky]

I'd also like to add that maybe you should tell your children the truth when the time is right as she quoted "I don't love you and I'm not sure I ever did" and that she conned you into believing she truly loved you so you'd marry and financially support her with a lifestyle she could never have afforded on her own!

Not a good idea and none of their business. There won't be a "right time" as they are too young now and when they are older will have drawn their own conclusions and be living their own lives. She may no longer be your wife but she's still their Mother. Telling them that she "conned" you will not be to your benefit...

 

Mr, Lucky

[pelicanpreacher]

Not a good idea and none of their business. There won't be a "right time" as they are too young now and when they are older will have drawn their own conclusions and be living their own lives. She may no longer be your wife but she's still their Mother. Telling them that she "conned" you will not be to your benefit...

 

Mr, Lucky

 

Mr. Lucky, I beg to differ. I know that by comparison adultery is mild when considering the range of betrayals man can commit against man but it is still part of the human equation and must be dealt with honestly. She made her admission so let her live with the enormity its meaning and the consequences thereof. Those children will have to make up their minds based on limited experience constructed of observations made of their parents as they attempt to read the secret language of their adult relationship! It's the notion that children and people in general should be mind readers that remains at the heart of miscommunication so leaving them in the dark to contemplate their own conclusions on the matter only leads to further confusion, unanswered questions, and greater insecurity. Having this knowledge will help to prepare those children for what is out in the world, what the world is capable of, and what they must do to protect themselves.

 

Imagine being the child of John Wayne Gasey, Denis Rader, Richard 'ICEMAN' Kuclinski, or Gary Ridgeway! These men admittedly represent extreme examples of poor human behavior but they're still fathers so what would your counselling of said children consist of? You don't get a free ride that automatically absolves you of aberrant, deviant, or despicable behavior just because you're a parent! As a matter of fact, as a parent, you are now subjected to a much higher standard of behavior than you were held to when single and childless for very good reason for you now hold the most important job on earth. JMO!

 

Verytired, she has lost your trust and even openly mocks it now. Why is she guaranteed the trust of your children when the betrayal of her infidelity extends to their lives as well?