I'm an idiot (distant) husband.

[Ronni_W]

I hate to say this, but I really blew it tonight.

Major hugs, Highfive.

I hate to disagree with you but...YOU did NOT blow it. Your wife blew it.

 

You said everything in a very positive, self-responsible, kind, honest way. That is all you can do, ever. She didn't hear you from a very positive or kind place. That is on her, not on you.

 

Mutual support is mutual support. You deserve her understanding and empathy as much as she deserves to be heard and understood. She blew a chance to be engaged in a really positive exchange between the two of you. Congratulations for creating that space. It is all you can ever hope to do. How she is going to react/respond to it is out of your control.

 

It's definitely a crappy outcome but that's NOT because of anything that you did or failed to do. Which is also to say that I'm seeing it the same as 2sunny is -- your wife as not your safe haven to take your concerns about your child, nor to count on for any other type of emotional support or nurturing.

 

You have been managing those of your emotions that need to be managed just fine...don't let ANYone cause you to start doubting yourself, about that. Yes, there is much of everything in life over which you have no control (are truly helpless) BUT you did great with everything over which you DO have control.

 

I agree with you that, at the moment, there is nothing more for you to say. But. How do you feel about ASKING your wife what type of support she feels capable of GIVING to you, right now? As the father of her ill child, not as the man who has been emotionally distant and neglectful. She ought to be able to make the distinction, or to learn how to do that.

 

In my opinion, it is perfectly acceptable and appropriate to call her on her own emotional distancing as that relates to sharing the burden of coping with your child's illness. That is, to let her know, in a kind, loving way that, as the mother and 'other adult' of the family, her emotional contribution will help the ENTIRE family, and will be appreciated by you, too.

 

I don't know. I understand your feelings of helplessness. I understand if you are feeling extremely alone and exposed.

Are there any parent support groups that you can join -- perhaps the doctor or hospital can let you know what is available. You do DESERVE all the support that you want and need. It is sad that your wife can't be part of that team...but that doesn't mean that you ought to end up having to go without.

 

More hugs. I am here when you need -- it feels like nothing at all, but it's all I have to give.

[2sunny]

that's the problem Ronnie - his W doesn't have anything left to give him emotionally right now... so for him to ask for ANYTHING is impossible, and very selfish in my opinion.

 

H5 - has it always been this way? is it always about what she wants or what she needs and you bowing down to her or has she ever or always in the past been a giver instead of the taker she appears to be now?

 

your answer may give me some clarity if you can give me enough to work with.

 

either way, at the moment, you are left to your own accord to deal with your emotions for the time being. we will help if you let us...

[highfive]

Ronni, Thanks, your words do help. She went out for a few hours, came home and then we talked a little more. I said that I understood that I should focus on our child right now, and that I should not discuss our marriage problems right now. She agreed, said that I understood and said that she can only deal with one crisis at a time right now.

 

So I have to bottle up my feelings and "be strong". I know she will support me as far as our child goes, just can't talk about our marriage troubles. She did say that everything would be OK if our child was OK.

 

This is why I have been distant: I feel insecure, I need her affection, I tell her, she gets defensive, pulls away, I get frustrated and pull away, she eventually comes around, but lately I just stay distant, tired of trying to make her see.

 

She has been a giver, but we have often argued about my insecurity - my need for affection and reassurance.

 

I truly hope we can get this sorted, but a lot needs to change, on both sides.Been like this for too long

 

Hugs,

[Ronni_W]

Yes, when it comes to your wife, you will need to manage your feelings. But it won't be good for you to just suppress it -- all sorts of further problems can develop as a result, emotional, mental and physical.

So, you really may want to consider seeking the support that you need and deserve, from a different source -- your child's doctor, a pastor, an individual counselor, or in a group setting.

 

She has been a giver, but we have often argued about my insecurity - my need for affection and reassurance.

 

I would rather suspect that, like all other relationships, you have BOTH having been givers and BOTH having been takers. The thing is that you've been giving what was easy for you to give, and she's been giving what was easy for her to give...with too much consideration for what the other actually wanted or would have preferred.

 

You have BOTH contributed to the other becoming insecure...but about different things.

 

It likely started out simply as her "desire" to be heard, and your "desire" for affection. Initially, not an "insecurity" for either of you, just a like, a preference, a want.

But then. Her discomfort at GIVING affection and your discomfort at GIVING 'listening' contributed to turning your individual normal desires into something over which you each ended up feeling insecure/needy.

 

You are each EQUALLY responsible. It's not that you didn't listen "first" or that she pulled away "first" -- you keep telling yourself that your distancing was somehow a reaction to something she did (or didn't do.) That is inaccurate and unfair. It is BS. Stop it. It won't help anything to keep feeling like (seeing yourself as) the bigger of the two victims.

 

You are equal-status victims, equal contributors to the current problems, equally reactive. She isn't "more to blame", "more at fault". She didn't "start it all."

 

All you can do is do what you can do. Be the best you are, and do the best that you can do for yourself, to fulfill your own needs and wants.

[2sunny]

 

 

You are each EQUALLY responsible. It's not that you didn't listen "first" or that she pulled away "first" -- you keep telling yourself that your distancing was somehow a reaction to something she did (or didn't do.) That is inaccurate and unfair. It is BS. Stop it. It won't help anything to keep feeling like (seeing yourself as) the bigger of the two victims.

 

You are equal-status victims, equal contributors to the current problems, equally reactive. She isn't "more to blame", "more at fault". She didn't "start it all."

 

All you can do is do what you can do. Be the best you are, and do the best that you can do for yourself, to fulfill your own needs and wants.

 

Ronni - i agree with everything you stated... but i left the part i felt a need to address...

 

the issue of who is to blame is insignificant at this juncture... and you H5 would be a fool to take all of the blame for yourself. so don't do that - she has to claim some role or responsibility in how you got to this place and she needs to own it.

 

the difference i see and i'm concerned about is that he is willing to take action to change it and she isn't (at least right now). who's to say that he won't get tired of waiting for her to "be ready" - she may never be ready...

 

so - at this point the ball is in her court whether the marriage mends or not.

 

i still think it's pretty selfish of her though...

 

H5 - are we allowed to inquire as to the child's general illness at hand?

[2sunny]

i think its better to have vacation for some days with her.take her to any pleasant place and spend with her entire day.be loving and careful towards her.

even at your office works spend some time with her during nights or mornings.then she can be happy towards you.

 

uuuuummmmmm, is this a troll trying to get and ad out there by the signature line?

 

seems obvious that you haven't read the entire thread.

[Ronni_W]

2sunny, yes, I agree with what you say. The responsibility for the current state of the marital relationship is absolutely 50/50 (or 100/100, depending on how you view that.)

 

I don't see "blame" or "fault"...not on her or his part. But I do see responsibility (or rather, lack of taking appropriate responsibility...on both her and his parts. It's equal.)

 

If she'd started this thread, you betcha I'd be beating her about the head with a wet noodle...or at least offering some very strong opinions and recommendations.

But. She isn't the OP, so I must content myself to just focus on the stuff that is within ^5's power and control, and the areas in which he can choose to change his thoughts, beliefs and behaviours, on his own and for himself.

 

And, ^5, that is really all that you can content yourself with, too. To do anything else is to put yourself in the role of (your wife's) victim. And I don't see you as that. You are more powerful than that.

[highfive]

Hi Ronni and 2sunny,

 

I understand and agree with you; we are both to blame, and no one is more at fault than the other. We are equal partners in this.

 

I also understand that the problems did not start with her or me, so we can't blame each other for starting it first.

 

For some time, I was feeling like I was 100 percent to blame, but now I don't feel that way.

 

You are right - she has set her boundries (for now) so I will now continue to be there for my family, and not concern myself as much with our marriage issues from the past.

I will be the best I can be and let the cards fall as they will. It will be difficult to keep quiet when I start worrying, but I will refrain.

Patience, patience...

 

[Ronni_W]

It will be difficult to keep quiet when I start worrying, but I will refrain.

Well, like I said: you DO need to manage that when you are with her. But that does not mean to suggest to just ignore, deny and suppress your feelings and worries and concerns.

 

When you are feeling helpless and without hope...you KNOW where to find us, yes???

 

Many hugs,

R

[highfive]

Right now my approach is to treat my W like I would like to be treated, being sure to include the listening / quality time bits that I now know she needs.

 

I will do this in a confident manner without coming across as needy or insecure. Basically, I'll just do what my heart says and I won't let my feelings of insecurity (plus a little resentment) get in the way. I know that I can't keep these feelings bottled up much longer, so at some point soon we will need to talk about our "love bank" issues.

 

For now, she has set the boundary, so I will wait (patience, patience...) for the present family crisis to pass or improve, and for her come to the point where she is willing to talk about us. The ball is her court.

 

While I wait, I feel it best to create a loving, caring and open environment.

 

Comments about this approach?

[2sunny]

random thought...

 

i'm not sure what pride has to do with it... as if we are honest about your situation you should rightfully be pissed off! that's another story though, as she is essentially asking you be "act" loving and kind to her without giving on her end... stating that she has nothing to offer to YOU.

 

it's a passive aggressive move (on her part) - at best. i really wonder how long she's going to make you "pretend" with her by setting you up for this little charade that is totally unhealthy and uncalled for.

 

you need encouragement and love... she is your wife... she shuts you down... gives it all to the child...

 

first things first... no healthy marriage = no family.

 

i can understand a tragedy in a family (as i have experienced it) taking energy from everyone around - but i can't imagine a kind and loving family member cutting me off at the knees if i said i needed some emotional support and love along the way.

 

sheez, i know for a fact that even my xH would do that for me if i told him i needed that from him - i would do the same for him. this fact alone should speak volumes to you. she's forgotten her basic roll of decency when it comes to being a kind and loving wife.

[highfive]

Thanks 2sunny,

 

I don't mean to make it sound too simple, but the comments I received in this thread, and reading the Five Love Languages book, provided me with great insight that I never really understood before.

 

I won't in into the details now, but in many ways, my wife has always been very loving and caring, but she does not always speak my language. She does not understand this yet but I'm hoping that she will soon and that things will improve. They have to or this marriage will get very difficult. I know I have been feeling like this for quite a few years now, but I can't stay quiet much longer. I now understand how I have hurt her by being distant and withdrawn. I now want her to understand how I have been feeling, but this will take time, just as it took time for me to understand.

 

Even in the crisis, she continues to love me using her language, but she does not want to talk about our problems - our love bank issues - she just can't deal with any more stress and for now I must respect that.

 

Am I a little pissed off? Sure, but there is nothing more I can do right now.

[2sunny]

well, i disagree about being able to do anything more.

 

you could at least be honest with her about your anger.

 

tell her. so she will know. it's only fair really. doesn't mean she needs to do something about it because you know she won't... but to at least put the true emotion out there for her to acknowledge is an honest start to how you really feel. takes away the pretending like you're ok with it all. that's a start.

[highfive]

well, i disagree about being able to do anything more.

 

you could at least be honest with her about your anger.

 

tell her. so she will know. it's only fair really. doesn't mean she needs to do something about it because you know she won't... but to at least put the true emotion out there for her to acknowledge is an honest start to how you really feel. takes away the pretending like you're ok with it all. that's a start.

Thanks, but I should add that last week I did tell her that I was upset because I felt like she was withdrawing, and that I have more to talk about, but she said that we will have to deal with it when our child improves.

 

I know her, and I know that she can't have a constructive conversation about us until her mind is clear and rested, which won't happen until the situation with our child improves.

[Ronni_W]

Right now my approach is to treat my W like I would like to be treated, ... I will do this in a confident manner...

While I wait, I feel it best to create a loving, caring and open environment.

^5, congrats on achieving the insights and understandings that led you to this place! You are being amazing.

I 100% agree with your approach -- I can't tell you how much I agree with that approach! The thing is, OF COURSE that will be tough to do, because you won't necessarily be sensing any appreciation or encouragement.

 

OTOH, your wife's heart may delightfully surprise her own dear self, and she may find herself being open to respond to you in a positive way ~~ ALWAYS keep open that space for something like that to happen (just don't get invested in whether or not it does happen, if that makes sense?)

 

From all you've shared, I agree with you...I don't think this is the best time to mention/try to deal with all the "negative realities" that exist between you.

 

So. We are back to you ensuring that you have a really good support network to help you meet your own needs, and maintain your own levels of energy, patience, hope, courage, confidence, self-appreciation, etc., etc.

What are you doing, about that???

 

PS: I do recognize and appreciate your efforts! You really have taken so much on board, and you truly are taking steps that will, ultimately, support your own happiness and success.

[highfive]

So. We are back to you ensuring that you have a really good support network to help you meet your own needs, and maintain your own levels of energy, patience, hope, courage, confidence, self-appreciation, etc., etc.

What are you doing, about that???

 

Thanks Ronni for your support and encouragement .

 

What am I going to do to keep sane? Exercise, get more sleep, spend more time with my kids, revisit some of my hobbies, keep updating LS and remember all I have learned here.

 

What did people do without the internet?

 

^5

[highfive]

Quick update: I think we are making progress, she seems to be responding to me, but we have not yet discussed "us".

 

The ball is still in her court, and I'm trying to be patient, but today for some reason, I am consumed with this and I am having a hard time holding back. I want so desperately to talk things over with her and work on making it better but I know it is not time yet. I have not said anything about this today, and I'm just hoping to make it through the day without bringing it up. I know it will back-fire if I bring it up.

 

My challenge is to not start a conversation about us and appear happy.

 

Patience and strength please!

[2sunny]

shhhhhh.... don't say a thing!

 

just post here if you are inclined to want to step over HER boundary by disrespecting her VERY specific request.

 

if you need to - write in a journal - or distract yourself in some way, shape or form.

 

art therapy? that's works wonders... draw a picture that portrays how you feel in that moment. i bet i could tell you what you would draw...

 

keep copy paper and colored pencils or colored chalk on hand...

[Ronni_W]

Patience and strength please!

Truckloads of patience and strength are being delivered to you even as I type...I ordered MUCH more than you will need, so you'll have oodles to save for 'next time' .

 

The ball is not just in her court. (STOP being a victim.) You have a ball in your court, too. BUT. You guys are playing different games, so to speak. At very least, you are playing the same game but under very different circumstances and guidelines.

 

Phone a friend, and discuss with him/her everything that you need to get off your chest, about your wife and marital relationship. USE your support network effectively.

 

Do not try desperately to "not talk and appear happy", try desperately to engage in an activity that will help keep you sane, and will actually help you feel happy. You listed those as: "Exercise, get more sleep, spend more time with my kids, revisit some of my hobbies,..."

 

Do something constructive, my good man. (((hugs)))

 

EDIT: Do try to get a copy of "The Ten-Second Miracle" by Gay Hendricks (it's listed at amazon.com through resellers.) I haven't read his "The Conscious Heart", but that is also looking like an excellent resource for someone in your situation. I really do like him for relationship stuff, so anything by him that catches your eye when you're searching amazon's site likely will be excellent.

(There is SO MUCH for you to be doing on your own...what is your point or purpose for focusing on the ONLY thing that is off-limits, right now??? -- other than being free/able to wallow in feelings of helplessness, anxiety and victimhood, I mean <wink>.)

[highfive]

shhhhhh.... don't say a thing!

 

just post here if you are inclined to want to step over HER boundary by disrespecting her VERY specific request.

 

if you need to - write in a journal - or distract yourself in some way, shape or form.

 

art therapy? that's works wonders... draw a picture that portrays how you feel in that moment. i bet i could tell you what you would draw...

 

keep copy paper and colored pencils or colored chalk on hand...

 

Thanks, yes I have started a journal, and I do post here when I feel the need.

 

We have had a few mini-dates, but through all this we have lost our ability to talk. When we are together we just talk about our child and how we are dealing with it, we don't talk about us or anything else. My wife is (naturally) consumed with concern about our child and I am worried about our child and worried about our marriage at the same time. I'm started to sound like a broken record...

 

Today I have fighting the urge to talk about us, and so far I am winning. Most of all I must fight to not appear needy for affection, because I know that I have done this is the past. I also need to break out of this worried, gloomy mood I am in. Its not very constructive or attractive.

 

I hope that we will begin to truly talk, laugh and enjoy each other's company again soon

[2sunny]

i don't see a constructive reason to pretend to be happy when you're not... that is basically what they call living a lie.

 

show her what she's dishing out. if you pretend that you are ok with this then that is what she'll believe... that you are perfectly fine with what she is doing and not giving to you.

 

if you're unhappy - wear your unhappy face - if you're frustrated - show the frustration on some level.

 

i'm thinking you are giving her mixed signals about your real feelings if you are just covering them up instead of showing the "true" emotion. thus, she doesn't understand how severe the issue is for you.

[2sunny]

you know - i just glanced at the original start date of this thread. three months have passed.

 

you need to start checking her cell phone (calls listed, text messages), email accounts and tracking her history on the computer.

 

anyone breathing who is compassionate (as you claim she is) would have made SOME movement on this within 3 months time. i understand the child situation... but something else is terribly wrong. i smell infidelity. check further.

 

DO NOT assume this isn't possible... check!

[highfive]

An update:

 

Over the last few weeks our child's condition has been improving. I now understand that my wife has been consumed with worry and concern about our child, and that this left little room for looking after any more children (like me ).

 

I have also been extremely fortunate to have been receiving direct help and support from an awesome life-coach . Together we have been uncovering the causes of my deep-seated insecurities (that began when I was quite young), and I now understand the negative impact they have had on my overall outlook and my relationships, especially with my wife. I have been learning new mature and logical ways to respond to my juvenile, insecure reactions to certain external stimuli, and I have also been learning to take better care of my health. I know that I still have a long way to go, but I feel better than I have in years!

 

The approach with my wife: To treat her the way I would like to be treated, with love, affection, care, trust and respect. So far this has been going very well, and she is starting to respond to me in positive ways.

 

Many thanks to any and all that offered advice and encouragement. I'll try to provide an update again soon.

 

^5

[Ronni_W]

Hey Stranger!!!

I've been missing you. Need I say how happy and ecstatic and proud of you I am -- just call me "mom" or something.

 

As much external support as you have and will receive, don't forget that it is still YOU doing all the really hard work -- so give yourself LOTS of credit for being awesome, too.

 

I'm so excited!!! And sending a whole new army of Healing Angels for your child.

Love'n hugs,

Ronni

[Ronni_W]

Okay. I am calmer, now..forgive my, er, outburst of exuberance, if you will .

 

I'm guessing that at some point you will update your wife with the details, right? -- not just "I understand" but the words that you wrote, that really demonstrate that you understand?

 

Cos that would be my suggestion.