I'm an idiot (distant) husband.

[highfive]

Synopsis: Over this last year I have changed my attitude and behavior for the better. I am now much more confident and I know that I have become a much better father and husband, more like I was before I became self-absorbed with worry / insecurity about my marriage.

 

My wife and I have been getting along much better and have been growing closer emotionally. As per my previous post, I don't feel that we are growing closer physically, but perhaps I am expecting too much / too soon We have been like this for years, and sometimes I wonder if perhaps what we need is a real change in environment or circumstances to reignite the spark between us. I have tried everything I can think of, but nothing seems to work. I don't think the way we are is good for a our long-term outlook, and I believe that some drastic measures are needed.

 

I see all this as perhaps another phase of my self-improvement, and I am willing to adjust my behavior, but I'm not sure what to do. Sometimes I feel that I am placing too much emphasis on the physical aspect of our relationship and maybe I should just back-off for a while?

 

Talking to her does not work, my words must be all wrong. How can I make her understand that I am concerned about the long-term and that we need to improve things now before we drift apart?

 

I know, I know: it could be much worse, at least we are close emotionally

[whichwayisup]

Just keep trying and don't give up. You can show her in other ways how much you love her by making her feel special, loved and needed. Though she needs to show you as well.

 

Have you written her a letter with all that you feel? Get her to read it while sitting beside her? Maybe then she'll 'get' what you're trying to say. Just a suggestion.

[Ronni_W]

Funny, when I think about it, what I miss most is the kissing :love:and hugging.

You're telling her that she's attractive. Are you doing non-sexual hugging, kissing, snuggling and cuddling?[/Quote] Yes.

 

Would she like to receive but not give?[/Quote] Yes / maybe.

---

 

but perhaps I am expecting too much / too soon We have been like this for years, ... Sometimes I feel that I am placing too much emphasis on the physical aspect of our relationship and maybe I should just back-off for a while?

Hey ^5.

You say that you're most missing the kissing and hugging...and also that you are doing hugging, kissing, snuggling and cuddling -- my mind cannot compute

 

And. Have you started loving unconditionally, in the carnal sense?

I know that can be difficult because we go to a place of wanting all things equal and reciprocated. That's just a power struggle, control/victim dynamic, so you can get over it if you really want to.

 

Changing your environment and circumstances will not change her hormones and chemicals. It needs serious but gentle measures. It is a serious relationship problem that can also erode both your and your wife's self-esteem and confidence.

 

You say it's been like this for years...how did you (both) let it go this long? And that also suggests something other than the problem just being with her. What is your contribution to the sexual dysfunction in your marriage? ED? PE? Be honest with yourself -- is it more of a problem now, and one that you can "safely" address, because you can blame "menopause" instead of owning whatever has been going on (or NOT going on), on your side?

 

Of course you do need to appreciate what you do have...emotional closeness, etc., but that does not resolve the problem and certainly does not bring sexual intimacy, satisfaction and orgasms for those who still want that.

 

If you feel that you have been overwhelming her with what may be unreasonable demands then, yes, back off. Of course. But I'm not getting the sense of that, in your posts.

 

You've got this thing in your head about "passion we once had." You were both younger and 101 others things have also changed, mentally, emotionally and physically. Any way you can replace that somewhat under-developed way of looking at it with something along the lines of, "passion that is possible for us to have, at our current ages and with our current circumstances"?

 

I think it's more about conveying that YOU are missing physical intimacy because that is one way that you really feel connected with her; that it's not about an orgasm as much as just...that's how you feel the kind of intimacy that talking may satisfy for her. Prefaced by how happy you are with her, and how much you appreciate the emotional intimacy that you two have been able to develop.

 

When you say that she says 'maybe' to a weekend getaway, but then "shows no real interest" -- what do you mean? What signs are you reading? What are you waiting for her to do, after she says 'maybe'?

 

My brain is going back to the fact that you say you're missing hugging and kissing the most, AND that you're getting hugging and kissing. What is up with that, anyway? Are you confused; telling yourself something that isn't accurate/honest; or what?

 

Have you done any research/education on low libido and mismatched libidos? Not "women's libidos" but in general? Visited any topic-specific sites and forums?

 

Asked your wife for a date that YOU can arrange for a getaway weekend during which the ONLY plan is that you will pleasure her like crazy?

[giotto]

"mismatched libidos" is a problem difficult to cure, especially if there is no apparent physical reason. I'm in the same boat, although my wife is on anti-depressants (for anxiety and recurrent thoughts) , so at least I can make some sense of it. Unfortunately, from my experience, you either put up with it, or leave. I'm staying because of the kids and also because my wife has decided to put some efforts in our physical relationship after I told her I was packing my bags. It's not ideal, but it's something... am I happy? No. I still feel rejected, because I know she does it for "the family", although sex is good when we have it...

[Ronni_W]

my wife is on anti-depressants (for anxiety and recurrent thoughts) , so at least I can make some sense of it. ... I still feel rejected,

Giotto,

I'm sorry to hear of your wife's and your problem. Sounds as if you know that some types of anti-depressants do decrease libido as an unwanted side-effect. Just a question: would you still choose to feel rejected if this was the unwanted side-effect of chemo or some other type of therapy for some other type of illness?

[giotto]

you are obviously right, Ronni, but I do believe she does not need them... it's a safety net for her, she is used to them and she is not prepared to stop them to see how she would fare without them, after all these years. That's why I feel rejected. I feel that I'm not worth even a trial. When she got off them, some years ago, our sex life went back to normal. I am aware that she should not discontinue them cold turkey, but she doesn't even want to consider it. Having said that, I've accepted it and I'm trying to see the whole issue from her point of view... so far, so good...

[Ronni_W]

It's not easy, giotto, that's for sure.

The thing is that you're sounding kinda judgmental/blaming around her use of the meds, and that is not helping your own self-esteem. Probably not adding anything positive and uplifting to your wife and marriage, either.

 

You can suggest that she discuss a possible change in meds with her psychiatrist or psychopharmacologist -- apparently SSNRIs and NDRIs have been showing less negative impact on libido than SSRIs.

 

Clear, honest, loving communications are my recommendation -- your current victim mentality just won't help the situation for you or your wife.

 

Hugs and best of luck.

[giotto]

we have discussed this at length... she is happy with her meds and she is not prepared to change them. Which is fair enough. So, not a lot I can do about this. You are right I should be helping her regardless and be positive, but after 12 years of this (married 19 years, together 24), I can't help feeling quite disheartened...

[NoIDidn't]

It's not easy, giotto, that's for sure.

The thing is that you're sounding kinda judgmental/blaming around her use of the meds, and that is not helping your own self-esteem. Probably not adding anything positive and uplifting to your wife and marriage, either.

 

You can suggest that she discuss a possible change in meds with her psychiatrist or psychopharmacologist -- apparently SSNRIs and NDRIs have been showing less negative impact on libido than SSRIs.

 

Clear, honest, loving communications are my recommendation -- your current victim mentality just won't help the situation for you or your wife.

 

Hugs and best of luck.

 

I agree. If my H had done this while I dealt with PPD, I wouldn't have been motivated to find other means of moderating my mood either.

 

Good thing for us that he didn't. The victim stance (even when its true and applicable) doesn't turn anyone on.

[highfive]

Hey ^5.

You say that you're most missing the kissing and hugging...and also that you are doing hugging, kissing, snuggling and cuddling -- my mind cannot compute

 

And. Have you started loving unconditionally, in the carnal sense?

I know that can be difficult because we go to a place of wanting all things equal and reciprocated. That's just a power struggle, control/victim dynamic, so you can get over it if you really want to.

 

Changing your environment and circumstances will not change her hormones and chemicals. It needs serious but gentle measures. It is a serious relationship problem that can also erode both your and your wife's self-esteem and confidence.

 

You say it's been like this for years...how did you (both) let it go this long? And that also suggests something other than the problem just being with her. What is your contribution to the sexual dysfunction in your marriage? ED? PE? Be honest with yourself -- is it more of a problem now, and one that you can "safely" address, because you can blame "menopause" instead of owning whatever has been going on (or NOT going on), on your side?

 

Of course you do need to appreciate what you do have...emotional closeness, etc., but that does not resolve the problem and certainly does not bring sexual intimacy, satisfaction and orgasms for those who still want that.

 

If you feel that you have been overwhelming her with what may be unreasonable demands then, yes, back off. Of course. But I'm not getting the sense of that, in your posts.

 

You've got this thing in your head about "passion we once had." You were both younger and 101 others things have also changed, mentally, emotionally and physically. Any way you can replace that somewhat under-developed way of looking at it with something along the lines of, "passion that is possible for us to have, at our current ages and with our current circumstances"?

 

I think it's more about conveying that YOU are missing physical intimacy because that is one way that you really feel connected with her; that it's not about an orgasm as much as just...that's how you feel the kind of intimacy that talking may satisfy for her. Prefaced by how happy you are with her, and how much you appreciate the emotional intimacy that you two have been able to develop.

 

When you say that she says 'maybe' to a weekend getaway, but then "shows no real interest" -- what do you mean? What signs are you reading? What are you waiting for her to do, after she says 'maybe'?

 

My brain is going back to the fact that you say you're missing hugging and kissing the most, AND that you're getting hugging and kissing. What is up with that, anyway? Are you confused; telling yourself something that isn't accurate/honest; or what?

 

Have you done any research/education on low libido and mismatched libidos? Not "women's libidos" but in general? Visited any topic-specific sites and forums?

 

Asked your wife for a date that YOU can arrange for a getaway weekend during which the ONLY plan is that you will pleasure her like crazy?

Hi Ronnie. Thanks for your reply. Busy week here, not much time to reply but I have been thinking about what you wrote above. Some clarification required me thinks

 

Yes, there is hugging and kissing, but always very short, pecks and the like. When I say "no passion" I mean no desire on her part.Her desire has been slowly diminishing over the last two to three years. Before that, she did ocassionally initiate sex, but usually it was me that got things going , but I got used to it, with the help of some research about mis-matched libido.

 

As you know, this last year was very stressful for our family, with me being too absorbed with myself and work, and our daughter being ill, so my wife was very stressed, so I understood that sex was the last thing on her mind.

 

Over the last three to four months things have been good at home, so I guess I kinda expected that things would return to our comfortable normal in the bedroom. However, despite us getting along well and being less stressed now, she is just not interested. Her previously low libido is now zero! I have tried talking to her without making her angry, and her response is always that she feels like terrible, that she is putting on weight (she still looks great), etc, and that its not me, she is just not in the mood. We still have sex when I am in the mood, but she is not that interested and doesn't really get excited (if you know what I mean) despite my offers to pleasure her the way I used to.

 

She admits her libido is low, but she is not too concerned about it. All evidence suggests a physical cause, but its not an issue for her, so she won't talk to her GP about it.

 

Our marriage and family is most important to me, and I know there is more to life than sex, so most of the time I accept the way things are, but of course I do hope that her libido returns, for her sake.

[Ronni_W]

but of course I do hope that her libido returns, for her sake.

You're too funny! It is for YOUR sake, and yours alone, that you wish a return of her libido. SHE is "not too concerned about it...its not an issue for her," so what are you worrying about it on her behalf for, if it is not a problem for her? So, please and for goodness' sake...stop the BS, wouldja? It really is not going to help you to be doing that, in any event.

 

I don't know what you mean by she "doesn't really get excited", no. Do you mean she doesn't get wet, or do you mean she doesn't have an orgasm (or only has them infrequently)?

 

The first can be attributed to aging, which is not a sign of lack of sexual excitement...investing in some good-quality lube is the solution if it's this.

The second speaks to technique, perhaps? When was the last time you updated your skills; asked her to show you around?

 

What can happen is that people identify passionate kissing as being the prelude to intercourse. For those with low libidos, they avoid anything that might put intercourse on the agenda. I don't know if it is possible for you, but it's about assuring and reassuring that you'd be happy (a lot of the time) if passionate kissing replaced intercourse.

 

That is far from ideal, but it's about helping her become comfortable and not feel any pressure during passionate kissing. She sounds sensitive enough to your plight, so likely doesn't want to feel or be perceived as a ck-tease.

 

I understand that things have been much better at home in recent months but that doesn't mean that everything automatically got better for her, internally. Is she working or volunteering outside of the house? That is, where is she getting her self-worth, esteem, respect and confidence? (It's not just about having less stress but also increased worth, esteem, etc.)

 

You're still talking about your "comfortable normal" but I'm interpreting you are comparing to how things were 3 or 4 years ago -- is that accurate? If so, I'd suggest to keep working on thinking in terms of, and looking for, a "NEW normal."

 

If SHE is feeling less than attractive due to weight gain, telling her only that she still looks great is against your own best interests. You also need to acknowledge her image of herself, and then ask how you can help her improve it. Maybe invite her to the gym with you? Or suggest she may enjoy something else -- kick boxing or belly dancing or marathon training.

 

The thing that she does not seem to be getting is that this is NOT just about her. It is NOT the same as if she had a different type of serious illness. On her side, there most likely is also a lot of embarrassment, feeling inadequate, not feminine, not sexy, etc.

 

And it's not as if you can force her to seek some help or treatment, either.

I don't know, ^5. There is a lot of very good, gender-neutral information in the book 'Why Men Stop Having Sex'...maybe grab it from the library and see if it encourages some new ways for you to talk with her about it?

 

In 'Hold Me Tight: 7 Conversations for a Lifetime of Love', there is a chapter/conversation titled 'Bonding Through Sex and Touch'...maybe also grab that one?

 

Our marriage and family is most important to me, and I know there is more to life than sex, so most of the time I accept the way things are,

In 'Why Men Stop', it makes it clear that this is NOT the way of a truly happy and fulfilling relationship, especially not for men who derive a lot of their emotional closeness during the physical, sexual act. As a woman, that sounds completely like an oxymoron and a conundrum, to me. But I get that it is what it is, for men. Possibly it's about you find the words to help your wife understand how it is for her husband. I think it's about that...you finding the words, offering them to her, and then...well, then we hope like crazy that she will understand what 'sex and touch' mean to you.

 

Big hugs, and very best of luck

[giotto]

good advise... for sure... but I can't help thinking that it's all very well, but "us men" are really so much more straightforward... even me! Hard work, but hopefully worth it. I do believe you have to work at your marriage, so keep up the good work!

[hooflungdung]

Well, there are at least two viewpoints of every situation. Do you support the family? If so, quit your job so you can give her all of your attention. Then see what tune she sings.

 

I've only read a few of these posts, but I suspect you're taking a lot of advice from women who would love to turn you into the perfect husband. And by that I mean a man who spends all of his energy catering to the whims of his wife.

 

My advice to traditional women: Life is hard and you just don't get everything you want, so quit being a whiny, bitchy little girl and start pulling your weight.

[2sunny]

Well, there are at least two viewpoints of every situation. Do you support the family? If so, quit your job so you can give her all of your attention. Then see what tune she sings.

 

I've only read a few of these posts, but I suspect you're taking a lot of advice from women who would love to turn you into the perfect husband. And by that I mean a man who spends all of his energy catering to the whims of his wife.

 

My advice to traditional women: Life is hard and you just don't get everything you want, so quit being a whiny, bitchy little girl and start pulling your weight.

 

huh? what the hell? talk bout assumptions and broad brush strokes...

 

take your unhealthy projection somewhere else.

[highfive]

Just another update:

 

Mid-life sure is a time for self-reflection and learning!

 

About a month ago, when I posted last, (and with the help of Ronni's reply) I became aware that I had allowed myself to fall back into the role of victim; taking my random insecure thoughts way too seriously, and expecting too much reassurance from my wife, and others around me. I became aware in time to stop me from projecting this to others, but I suspect that my wife sensed a change...

 

The good news is that I have snapped out of the brain funk I was in, and have regained my positive, "aware" attitude.

 

Now, I need to find a way to maintain the attitude

 

Suggestions welcome!

[Ronni_W]

Hey ^5.

Good to read you (as always), and glad that you had good news to report

The good news is that I have snapped out of the brain funk I was in, and have regained my positive, "aware" attitude.

Now, I need to find a way to maintain the attitude

Use whatever works for you -- screen savers; post-it notes; alarms and 'pop-up reminders' on all your electronic gadgets, at appropriate intervals -- every 15, 30 or 60 minutes, if that's what your brain needs.

 

Write or type a reminder/affirmation three times each, every morning, noon and night. "I am not a victim. I am in charge of my positive self-image, and responsible for my own attitude and awareness. I am nobody's victim but my own."

 

Whatever it is that you need to do and tell yourself, that will keep you in your own power. Commit to thinking and doing whatever it is, every day for the rest of your natural life, 24 times a day, if that is what you need to do.

 

Sending hugs and continued good stuff.

 

EDIT to add: And continue to do the other stuff, of course -- physical activity, personal hobbies and interests, stress management, do what you can to promote restful sleep, be the leader of your clan, etc.

[highfive]

Hey ^5.

Good to read you (as always), and glad that you had good news to report

 

Use whatever works for you -- screen savers; post-it notes; alarms and 'pop-up reminders' on all your electronic gadgets, at appropriate intervals -- every 15, 30 or 60 minutes, if that's what your brain needs.

 

Write or type a reminder/affirmation three times each, every morning, noon and night. "I am not a victim. I am in charge of my positive self-image, and responsible for my own attitude and awareness. I am nobody's victim but my own."

 

Whatever it is that you need to do and tell yourself, that will keep you in your own power. Commit to thinking and doing whatever it is, every day for the rest of your natural life, 24 times a day, if that is what you need to do.

 

Sending hugs and continued good stuff.

 

EDIT to add: And continue to do the other stuff, of course -- physical activity, personal hobbies and interests, stress management, do what you can to promote restful sleep, be the leader of your clan, etc.

 

Hi Ronni,

 

Thanks for your reply, suggestions and encouragement,

 

In general I know that I have made very good progress. Sometimes, however, I feel as if my masculinity and, hence, attractiveness to my wife has waned over the years due to being too needy and perhaps too attentive to her every need (whether real or perceived).

 

I realize that this is improving due to my new attitude and confidence, but I am not yet where I would like to be in this regard. Does this make any sense to you, or others out there? Any ideas, suggestions, or suggested reading? How can I become a MAN again? A loving, caring, confident and sexy MAN?

[mem11363]

Highfive,

I have been reading your story silently for quite some time. And it has been hard to remain quiet because the focus of your efforts seemed to be so utterly one sided. To date, I think your female advisors have given you excellent advice regarding how to improve your emotional presence, and how you can be more engaged in your family.

 

I have been waiting for you to do two things:

1. Honestly state what YOU want from your marriage and acknowledge that YOU are not happy with the status quo and that you are entitled to having your needs met

2. Realize that unless you assert yourself as a MAN, your wife will actually be sexually averse to you

 

I am 46, married for 20 years to a delightful, funny, cute, strong willed, very strong willed, 46 year old woman who has given me 3 wonderful children. My wife has sex with me twice a week on average - about 100 times a year. More importantly she never rejects me. She may say, I am dead tired tonight, can I rock your world tomorrow? But she never just says "no". And I don't mind waiting a day - so we very rarely have hurt feelings. She would do it more frequently if I asked, because she truly believes that for ME to be fully happy in our marriage I need to have fairly frequent sex. And her view is that since that is the ONE and ONLY thing I am fully dependent on her for that it would not be a loving thing for HER to treat it like a low priority. With that said, this is the embarrassing truth of a deeply loving marriage with mismatched libidos. She initiates 20%, I initiate the other 80%. I would say - in total 15-20 percent of sex is "mercy" sex. Deep sigh. I call it "mercy" sex when it is a situation where she is not able to get over the "finish line" no matter what I do.

 

A bit part of the reason my wife is so sexual with me, is still "in love" with me, is that I still have the same "edgy masculinity" that I did when we married. I am not "combative", but I am not at all conflict avoidant. And I am not embarrassed or ashamed of my needs or wants. So a lot of times I notice my wife applys a different standard to "my behavior" then hers. And when that happens I just point it out. Not to be a jerk - simply to insist on fairness. When I make mistakes I don't have the bad gene some guys have prevents apologies. When I make a mistake, I say I am truly sorry and we move on. On the flip side - and this is a big part of having a healthy equilibrium in a marriage - when I am the injured party I either get an apology or I inflict my own punishment until I feel "whole". I also don't allow my wife to take a mistake and blow it out of proportion. Most people know when they are not being fair. If I let my wife be unfair to me she would perceive me as weak, and a weak man is the biggest sexual turnoff in the world to a woman.

 

So like at one point someone was saying you should take "notes" when your wife talks. If you are creating a long to do list that is fine, just make sure you both take turns "taking notes". If you act like her secretary/servant she will treat you like your secretary servant.

 

Also - part of being a man - part of being good at conflict is you DO NOT tell someone who is denying you a "core" need, that there will be no consequence to them if they keep doing it. Lots of men think that saying "I would never leave you over sex" is showing commitment. It is NOT. It is showing weakness. I am not suggesting that you threaten a divorce. I am simply saying that "GOOD" conflict escalates steadily until your needs are met. Maybe you try the steps below until you "get there":

- I need you to help us figure out how to get the passion and desire back in our marriage.

- I need to know this is a high priority to you

- We need to discuss this with a good marriage counselor

- I need to know that YOU are committed to us having a regular sex life, even if for the moment I accept that this is not the most fun activity for you.

- I am not willing to put 100% into a marriage - be totally focused on you, and your needs, and accept that you are not willing to make some sacrifices for ME. That is not acceptable

- I am not going to do "x, y, z" anymore I am not happy and do not feel loved, do not feel that my needs and my happiness are important to you

 

You may say. But if I do this she will divorce me. And ultimately the difference between a MAN, and a male is the willingness to take calculated risks and to gradually exert his will in a firm and fair manner so that HE is treated fairly.

 

When was the last time your wife looked you in the eye and sincerely said:

 

"Thank you for working so hard for us, I know your job can be stressful, I know the travel can be difficult when the flights are delayed or their is bad turbulence. I know it is a sacrifice for you to wear all the financial stress and I am grateful to you for making it possible for me to be home full time with our children."

 

Now - you are an IT guy. Write down a "plan", stay calm and then start executing your plan. One step might be a conversation with your wife about how to balance your needs and hers.

 

For most men, sex from our wives = love. So no sex equals no love. This is not about sex, it is about feeling loved. Don't let anyone try to make you feel bad for wanting to feel loved.

 

 

 

 

Hi Ronni,

 

Thanks for your reply, suggestions and encouragement,

 

In general I know that I have made very good progress. Sometimes, however, I feel as if my masculinity and, hence, attractiveness to my wife has waned over the years due to being too needy and perhaps too attentive to her every need (whether real or perceived).

 

I realize that this is improving due to my new attitude and confidence, but I am not yet where I would like to be in this regard. Does this make any sense to you, or others out there? Any ideas, suggestions, or suggested reading? How can I become a MAN again? A loving, caring, confident and sexy MAN?

[Ronni_W]

How can I become a MAN again? A loving, caring, confident and sexy MAN?

Well...you are that to me

You ask how to become a man AGAIN -- that suggests to me that you used to know how to do it at some point in your life. And I'm guessing it's kinda like riding a bike...one does not forget how.

 

So...how did you used to do it, before? What did you believe, think and do that made you feel like, and see yourself as, the MAN that you are? Because, you still ARE the man that you used to be...kind of sounds more like he is just hiding, or you buried him for whatever reason, or you stopped paying attention and he just wandered off.

 

Pretend that he was still around -- what would HE be thinking and doing, and how would HE be acting?

What do you need to start believing, thinking and doing AGAIN in order to allow him to be present and active in your everyday life, AGAIN?

 

He IS around, someplace, ^5. But you won't find him in any book. He is in your mind and heart; in your fears, feelings and desires. "Go fish," as the kids say, and find him!

[highfive]

Highfive,

I have been reading your story silently for quite some time. And it has been hard to remain quiet because the focus of your efforts seemed to be so utterly one sided. To date, I think your female advisors have given you excellent advice regarding how to improve your emotional presence, and how you can be more engaged in your family.

 

I have been waiting for you to do two things:

1. Honestly state what YOU want from your marriage and acknowledge that YOU are not happy with the status quo and that you are entitled to having your needs met

2. Realize that unless you assert yourself as a MAN, your wife will actually be sexually averse to you

 

I am 46, married for 20 years to a delightful, funny, cute, strong willed, very strong willed, 46 year old woman who has given me 3 wonderful children. My wife has sex with me twice a week on average - about 100 times a year. More importantly she never rejects me. She may say, I am dead tired tonight, can I rock your world tomorrow? But she never just says "no". And I don't mind waiting a day - so we very rarely have hurt feelings. She would do it more frequently if I asked, because she truly believes that for ME to be fully happy in our marriage I need to have fairly frequent sex. And her view is that since that is the ONE and ONLY thing I am fully dependent on her for that it would not be a loving thing for HER to treat it like a low priority. With that said, this is the embarrassing truth of a deeply loving marriage with mismatched libidos. She initiates 20%, I initiate the other 80%. I would say - in total 15-20 percent of sex is "mercy" sex. Deep sigh. I call it "mercy" sex when it is a situation where she is not able to get over the "finish line" no matter what I do.

 

A bit part of the reason my wife is so sexual with me, is still "in love" with me, is that I still have the same "edgy masculinity" that I did when we married. I am not "combative", but I am not at all conflict avoidant. And I am not embarrassed or ashamed of my needs or wants. So a lot of times I notice my wife applys a different standard to "my behavior" then hers. And when that happens I just point it out. Not to be a jerk - simply to insist on fairness. When I make mistakes I don't have the bad gene some guys have prevents apologies. When I make a mistake, I say I am truly sorry and we move on. On the flip side - and this is a big part of having a healthy equilibrium in a marriage - when I am the injured party I either get an apology or I inflict my own punishment until I feel "whole". I also don't allow my wife to take a mistake and blow it out of proportion. Most people know when they are not being fair. If I let my wife be unfair to me she would perceive me as weak, and a weak man is the biggest sexual turnoff in the world to a woman.

 

So like at one point someone was saying you should take "notes" when your wife talks. If you are creating a long to do list that is fine, just make sure you both take turns "taking notes". If you act like her secretary/servant she will treat you like your secretary servant.

 

Also - part of being a man - part of being good at conflict is you DO NOT tell someone who is denying you a "core" need, that there will be no consequence to them if they keep doing it. Lots of men think that saying "I would never leave you over sex" is showing commitment. It is NOT. It is showing weakness. I am not suggesting that you threaten a divorce. I am simply saying that "GOOD" conflict escalates steadily until your needs are met. Maybe you try the steps below until you "get there":

- I need you to help us figure out how to get the passion and desire back in our marriage.

- I need to know this is a high priority to you

- We need to discuss this with a good marriage counselor

- I need to know that YOU are committed to us having a regular sex life, even if for the moment I accept that this is not the most fun activity for you.

- I am not willing to put 100% into a marriage - be totally focused on you, and your needs, and accept that you are not willing to make some sacrifices for ME. That is not acceptable

- I am not going to do "x, y, z" anymore I am not happy and do not feel loved, do not feel that my needs and my happiness are important to you

 

You may say. But if I do this she will divorce me. And ultimately the difference between a MAN, and a male is the willingness to take calculated risks and to gradually exert his will in a firm and fair manner so that HE is treated fairly.

 

When was the last time your wife looked you in the eye and sincerely said:

 

"Thank you for working so hard for us, I know your job can be stressful, I know the travel can be difficult when the flights are delayed or their is bad turbulence. I know it is a sacrifice for you to wear all the financial stress and I am grateful to you for making it possible for me to be home full time with our children."

 

Now - you are an IT guy. Write down a "plan", stay calm and then start executing your plan. One step might be a conversation with your wife about how to balance your needs and hers.

 

For most men, sex from our wives = love. So no sex equals no love. This is not about sex, it is about feeling loved. Don't let anyone try to make you feel bad for wanting to feel loved.

Thanks Mem for your excellent advice.

 

In reality, my marriage is in pretty good shape now. We are emotionally close, have fun together, we do have sex on a fairly regular basis, and she does tell me that she appreciates and respects my career that supports the family's finances.

 

When we were first married (19 years ago) like many MEN I had some adjusting to do with respect to housework, raising children and other domestic chores. My wife was quite patient but of course I did upset her from time to time, usually because I did not realise that I should have been doing something to help her with the houses, kids, etc. Over time I did indeed adjust, but I went too far the other way; always wanting to help, always asking if she needed help, always there to fix things, always asking if she was OK, and SUPER SENSTIVE to her moods. If she was angry I would assume that she was angry with me for something I did or did not do. I was like this for years - too focused on keeping her happy, to the point that she probably lost some respect for me. I became like a weak servant; not sexy, fun or MANLY.

 

I am finding myself again after all these years and as my confidence returns I have noticed that my marriage is improving. We do have sex when I initiate (she never denies me), but she does not seem as interested as she once was; it takes a lot more effort to get her fire started and burning, but now I really do think that this is due to physical changes surrounding perimenopause, not by a lack of love for me.

 

So, things are good, I just need to stay committed to my new attitude, and not take my wifes moods or low sex drive personally.

 

Thanks also to Ronni for her recent post; as usual her advice makes perfect sense and is a great help to me :)

[giotto]

I'm glad for you... it's great to read some positive outcomes from time to time...

[Cowboy2theCore]

well if it was me you could do several things. The one about showing her this post isn't a bad ideal. It does show how much you care and love her. But I would start doing little things. Flowers at work. Small Love letter's to her. Get sometime alone with just you and her. Ask her if the two of u can take a vacation and plan something nice. The love is still there it is just baried under all that work. You can make this work. Oh one movie i think would be good for you to watch might be FireProof. It is a good movie about a failing relationship.

[Neutrino]

well if it was me you could do several things. The one about showing her this post isn't a bad ideal. It does show how much you care and love her. But I would start doing little things. Flowers at work. Small Love letter's to her. Get sometime alone with just you and her. Ask her if the two of u can take a vacation and plan something nice. The love is still there it is just baried under all that work. You can make this work. Oh one movie i think would be good for you to watch might be FireProof. It is a good movie about a failing relationship.

 

All sounds great - but avoid the flowers at work, don't make something so personal, public in a professional environment... Many people do not appreciate such displays at all.

[mem11363]

You are the only one who knows what is important to your wife. My wife would be more impressed by me fixing something broken in the house that she really wants fixed. She would be more impressed by watching me teach one of the children something cool.

 

As for arousal levels and initiation. Most men in long term marriages have the exact same situation we do, their wives simply have lower drives. The ultimate measure of commitment is whether or not your wife responds when you initiate. It really is that simple. Just like a key measure of YOUR decency as a man is how patient, determined and skilled you are at trying to make it fun for her as well.

 

 

 

Thanks Mem for your excellent advice.

 

In reality, my marriage is in pretty good shape now. We are emotionally close, have fun together, we do have sex on a fairly regular basis, and she does tell me that she appreciates and respects my career that supports the family's finances.

 

When we were first married (19 years ago) like many MEN I had some adjusting to do with respect to housework, raising children and other domestic chores. My wife was quite patient but of course I did upset her from time to time, usually because I did not realise that I should have been doing something to help her with the houses, kids, etc. Over time I did indeed adjust, but I went too far the other way; always wanting to help, always asking if she needed help, always there to fix things, always asking if she was OK, and SUPER SENSTIVE to her moods. If she was angry I would assume that she was angry with me for something I did or did not do. I was like this for years - too focused on keeping her happy, to the point that she probably lost some respect for me. I became like a weak servant; not sexy, fun or MANLY.

 

I am finding myself again after all these years and as my confidence returns I have noticed that my marriage is improving. We do have sex when I initiate (she never denies me), but she does not seem as interested as she once was; it takes a lot more effort to get her fire started and burning, but now I really do think that this is due to physical changes surrounding perimenopause, not by a lack of love for me.

 

So, things are good, I just need to stay committed to my new attitude, and not take my wifes moods or low sex drive personally.

 

Thanks also to Ronni for her recent post; as usual her advice makes perfect sense and is a great help to me :)

[highfive]

You are the only one who knows what is important to your wife. My wife would be more impressed by me fixing something broken in the house that she really wants fixed. She would be more impressed by watching me teach one of the children something cool.

 

As for arousal levels and initiation. Most men in long term marriages have the exact same situation we do, their wives simply have lower drives. The ultimate measure of commitment is whether or not your wife responds when you initiate. It really is that simple. Just like a key measure of YOUR decency as a man is how patient, determined and skilled you are at trying to make it fun for her as well.

 

Thank you Mem for following this thread, and for your posts. Your words bring clarity and logic, much in the same way that Ronni and 2sunny (among others!) have helped me to "see the light".

 

Your above statement about arousal, initiation and response is so very true. Mismatched sex drives is a very common theme here at LS. In our case, my wife does indeed respond when I initiate, and I now accept this for the way it is. This acceptance is another important change for me because for a LONG time, I deeply resented her decreasing libido, and I took it very personally, sometimes almost to the point of obsession. Looking back, I now know that my resentment was the #1 cause for the increasing distance between us (and probably decreased her libido even more).

 

The Present: I am no longer resentful, and I have a new attitude about my marriage, family and life in general. I have made good progress, and now my main goal is to put the final polish on my transformation: combine my new mature, non-resentful, confident attitude with the humorous, fun-loving, outgoing, positive attractive man I was in my twenties - the man my wife fell for, but now so much more refined! I can do it! :bunny:

 

I hope this thread is an inspiration for other people in similar situations