I'm an idiot (distant) husband.

[mem11363]

Highfive,

Your post truly made my day. And you have described this process in such a beautiful and eloquent fashion that I can't help but think what a lucky woman your wife is.

 

 

 

 

Thank you Mem for following this thread, and for your posts. Your words bring clarity and logic, much in the same way that Ronni and 2sunny (among others!) have helped me to "see the light".

 

Your above statement about arousal, initiation and response is so very true. Mismatched sex drives is a very common theme here at LS. In our case, my wife does indeed respond when I initiate, and I now accept this for the way it is. This acceptance is another important change for me because for a LONG time, I deeply resented her decreasing libido, and I took it very personally, sometimes almost to the point of obsession. Looking back, I now know that my resentment was the #1 cause for the increasing distance between us (and probably decreased her libido even more).

 

The Present: I am no longer resentful, and I have a new attitude about my marriage, family and life in general. I have made good progress, and now my main goal is to put the final polish on my transformation: combine my new mature, non-resentful, confident attitude with the humorous, fun-loving, outgoing, positive attractive man I was in my twenties - the man my wife fell for, but now so much more refined! I can do it! :bunny:

 

I hope this thread is an inspiration for other people in similar situations

[Ronni_W]

now my main goal is to put the final polish on my transformation: combine my new mature, non-resentful, confident attitude with the humorous, fun-loving, outgoing, positive attractive man I was in my twenties - the man my wife fell for, but now so much more refined!

Highfive, you have made EXCELLENT progress. OMG, do you recall your earlier posts, when you were so bloody resistant and just seemingly not wanting to "see the light" at all -- but look at you now!

 

How do you feel about replacing "non-resentful" with words like "accepting, self-responsible, empathetic, compassionate"? To me, those are more accurate, positive and self-affirming.

I can do it! :bunny:

:bunny: Yes, you can do it :love: In fact, you ARE doing it!!! :bunny:

[giotto]

well done!

[highfive]

Highfive, you have made EXCELLENT progress. OMG, do you recall your earlier posts, when you were so bloody resistant and just seemingly not wanting to "see the light" at all -- but look at you now!

 

How do you feel about replacing "non-resentful" with words like "accepting, self-responsible, empathetic, compassionate"? To me, those are more accurate, positive and self-affirming.

:bunny: Yes, you can do it :love: In fact, you ARE doing it!!! :bunny:

 

 

Thanks Ronni. Yes, I see your point about the words I used - I thought you might comment

 

Yes, I was resistant, wasn't I? The old me was enjoying being the victim, not wanting to admit that the problems were self-created.

 

Stay tuned; I'll update again soon.

[mem11363]

H5,

I have come to admire your style. I think the coolest thing in the world would be if you (I try to do this - with some succes) can spend enough time with the kids to watch them play/conflict and resolve with each other. And to take some of the things you have learned and role play with them. Let them start to see the power of a positive, humorous, optimistic apporach to challenges.

 

Sometimes I just forget. Forget what I am really supposed to do. My wife thinks it is just to help them with their high level math homework, but it isn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Ronni. Yes, I see your point about the words I used - I thought you might comment

 

Yes, I was resistant, wasn't I? The old me was enjoying being the victim, not wanting to admit that the problems were self-created.

 

Stay tuned; I'll update again soon.

[highfive]

H5,

I have come to admire your style. I think the coolest thing in the world would be if you (I try to do this - with some succes) can spend enough time with the kids to watch them play/conflict and resolve with each other. And to take some of the things you have learned and role play with them. Let them start to see the power of a positive, humorous, optimistic apporach to challenges.

 

Sometimes I just forget. Forget what I am really supposed to do. My wife thinks it is just to help them with their high level math homework, but it isn't.

 

Thanks Mem for the compliment.

My new attitude is settling in well, and I find I am much stronger and confident that I have been in years. As you have suggested, I do spend more time with my teenage children, and I often offer suggestions or "life lessons" from things that give me strength.

 

Upon reflection, I realise that where I am most venerable to negative thoughts is regarding physical intimacy, and I find your attitude about intimacy (and mis-matched libidos) to be refreshing and logical, so I'm sure I will be looking for more advice on this. For many years I have been the one add "spice" in the bedroom, and I have tried many different ways to heat things up. My wife always responds, after some coaxing, but lately I am running out of ideas. I'll keep searching and reading, but if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear.

 

I know, I know: I seemed obsessed with intimacy

 

From experience, I know that our closest physical / emotional connections occur after a day of interesting / fun things, with me being confident, funny and attentive. Those are the times I enjoy most of all, and I can be on a natural high for days.

[mem11363]

H5,

It is totally and absolutely normal to feel a bit insecure when your partner is clearly "less" sexually attracted to us then we are to them. I feel the same way you do. I also accept that my wife truly loves me. And that takes a lot of the sting out of it.

 

As for adding "spice" - have her show you what she wants:

Have you ever played "I touch / you touch" with her? She teaches you how to touch her, by touching you the way she wants you to touch her? Works for kissing too.

 

This game helped me learn some stuff about just generally making my better half feel "nice" - even just in terms of non-sexual massage and stuff - by doing that. It works great for sex as long as you can get her to relax enough to be honest with you and also if you can figure out how to adjust for anatomical differences. Turns out the male nipple is the closest proxy on your body to a females most sensitive spot.

 

You can also do some reading on "light" dominance stuff. You can always start with verbal "being a bit dominant / bossy" and see how it goes. Some women like this, others dislike it. You will find out pretty quickly. You need to give her a little warning that you intend to play using a slighty more intense rulebook - and that if she really doesn't like it she just needs to say stop.

 

You have more courage then me. Despite her lower desire level, my wife is the initiator of "new stuff" for us. I have not been secure enough to risk "different stuff" over the years - shame on me. But when she does initiate I am always happy to play and then I will add that to the stuff we do in the future.

 

 

 

Thanks Mem for the compliment.

My new attitude is settling in well, and I find I am much stronger and confident that I have been in years. As you have suggested, I do spend more time with my teenage children, and I often offer suggestions or "life lessons" from things that give me strength.

 

Upon reflection, I realise that where I am most venerable to negative thoughts is regarding physical intimacy, and I find your attitude about intimacy (and mis-matched libidos) to be refreshing and logical, so I'm sure I will be looking for more advice on this. For many years I have been the one add "spice" in the bedroom, and I have tried many different ways to heat things up. My wife always responds, after some coaxing, but lately I am running out of ideas. I'll keep searching and reading, but if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear.

 

I know, I know: I seemed obsessed with intimacy

 

From experience, I know that our closest physical / emotional connections occur after a day of interesting / fun things, with me being confident, funny and attentive. Those are the times I enjoy most of all, and I can be on a natural high for days.

[highfive]

H5,

It is totally and absolutely normal to feel a bit insecure when your partner is clearly "less" sexually attracted to us then we are to them. I feel the same way you do. I also accept that my wife truly loves me. And that takes a lot of the sting out of it.

 

As for adding "spice" - have her show you what she wants:

Have you ever played "I touch / you touch" with her? She teaches you how to touch her, by touching you the way she wants you to touch her? Works for kissing too.

 

This game helped me learn some stuff about just generally making my better half feel "nice" - even just in terms of non-sexual massage and stuff - by doing that. It works great for sex as long as you can get her to relax enough to be honest with you and also if you can figure out how to adjust for anatomical differences. Turns out the male nipple is the closest proxy on your body to a females most sensitive spot.

 

You can also do some reading on "light" dominance stuff. You can always start with verbal "being a bit dominant / bossy" and see how it goes. Some women like this, others dislike it. You will find out pretty quickly. You need to give her a little warning that you intend to play using a slighty more intense rulebook - and that if she really doesn't like it she just needs to say stop.

 

You have more courage then me. Despite her lower desire level, my wife is the initiator of "new stuff" for us. I have not been secure enough to risk "different stuff" over the years - shame on me. But when she does initiate I am always happy to play and then I will add that to the stuff we do in the future.

 

Hi Mem,

 

Thanks, yes I now realize and acknowledge that my wife still loves me, despite her having a lower libido. As it happens, it would be very difficult for her to have a higher libido than me . Mine is probably unusually high. Perhaps I should get my hormones checked!

 

Except for when we were first married, I have always been the initiator of "new stuff" (my wife is quite shy and reserved about these things) but I am 100% OK with that now.

 

BTW, thanks for the tips

 

Best,

^5

[2sunny]

it's always nice to approach your new perspective with fresh ideas for the benefit of your wife.

 

try doing things for her around the house - shirtless... or wear a cologne she likes then hug her.

 

kiss her neck without the intention of anything other than a simple gesture.

 

tease her with non threatening - non sexual intentions. give HER a visual she may enjoy.

 

the "spice it up" attitude needs to happen outside the bedroom too....

[highfive]

Hi all,

 

Since my last post, things with my wife continued to improve, until recently. Unfortunately, for the last few months I have had travel away from home, for two weeks at a time. I try to keep in touch with home on a daily basis by phone or email. When I do get home, I find that things are OK with my wife but I often fall into the trap of feeling like a "victim", that she didn't miss me as much as I missed her. I don't let it show, but I can't help but feel like it sometimes, that I am more into her than she is into me.

 

I know I have said this before, but I can't help but feel that I am taken for granted, just a little. Slipping back into my old insecure ways? I hope not, maybe I'm just a tired from all this travel.

 

Sometimes I feel that our marriage needs a good upheaval, or I have to make some major changes, to get my wife to notice me! Sound crazy? Maybe - it's just that I feel like I have put in all this hard work, and she can still be distant and uninterested at times.

 

I know: time for me to get over myself again, stop taking life so seriously, and just get on with it!

 

Maybe I just needed to rant here to get these feelings off my chest!

 

^5

[hopeful1980]

I'm sorry your wife isn't making you feel appreciated. What are some ways you think she can do that? Do you think if you told her how you would like to see her appreciation demonstrated, she would be receptive?

 

I'm saying this because I appreciate my husband, but I don't always show him in a way that he notices. Just saying "Thank you" isn't enough for him and we've talked about things that I can do to show him in the ways he recognizes that I appreciate him.

[mem11363]

What are your interactions like while you are away? Who is driving most of the communication? Are you the one doing most of the texting/calling? How long do you talk at night and about what?

 

When I go to KL for 2 weeks this is what I try to do when I call home:

- Take a moment before I call to think about an amusing/fun way to describe my day - the best story is one that gets a laugh and makes her realize that my trip has challenges as well - nothing that brings her down, just enough for her to realize that I am not on some type of corporate funded vacation.

- Prepare to be sympathetic to her - while I am away she has to do everything which is hard - I don't try to problem solve I listen and apologize for not being there to help

- I always start by asking if this is a good time to talk

- I don't tell her I love her - I just showed her how much I do. If she says it to me, I say it back. If she is feeling frustrated/resentful I am not there - and doesn't feel like telling me she loves me - that is ok.

- If she is a little cranky with me I just say I wish I could be there to help you - sometimes I tell her I am looking forward to getting home and cooking her / the kids a nice dinner

 

My point is I try to make my call the high point of her day. The call is about her - about the kids - not about me. I do sometimes ask her if there is anything I can do. Every once in a while there is. And if she seems tired I just ask if she would rather catch up tomorrow - a quick guilt free end to the call.

 

This seems to work well for us. She sure is nice to me when I get home...

 

 

Hi all,

 

Since my last post, things with my wife continued to improve, until recently. Unfortunately, for the last few months I have had travel away from home, for two weeks at a time. I try to keep in touch with home on a daily basis by phone or email. When I do get home, I find that things are OK with my wife but I often fall into the trap of feeling like a "victim", that she didn't miss me as much as I missed her. I don't let it show, but I can't help but feel like it sometimes, that I am more into her than she is into me.

 

I know I have said this before, but I can't help but feel that I am taken for granted, just a little. Slipping back into my old insecure ways? I hope not, maybe I'm just a tired from all this travel.

 

Sometimes I feel that our marriage needs a good upheaval, or I have to make some major changes, to get my wife to notice me! Sound crazy? Maybe - it's just that I feel like I have put in all this hard work, and she can still be distant and uninterested at times.

 

I know: time for me to get over myself again, stop taking life so seriously, and just get on with it!

 

Maybe I just needed to rant here to get these feelings off my chest!

 

^5

[frustrated_one]

I am new on the board and saw your post and wanted to check in.

 

I completely understand your feelings of being taken for granted. As a woman I can say that so many of us do not appreciate the sacrifice our husbands are making for our families.

 

It is not easy for you to be away from them and certainly your wife should be grateful that she has a husband who is willing and able to support her and your children. I wish she was on the forum so I could ask her when was the last time she TOLD YOU how much she appreciates how you support the family and make their good life possible? When was the last time she recognized how difficult the travel is ON YOU?

 

I'm sure she is stressed when she becomes a "single parent."

 

Have you read the book, 5 Love Languages? I think it's a good book to buy or check out of the library. It certainly helped me and my hubby identify what the other appreciates and to give to each other what s/he needs instead of what we would like.

 

It is understandable that you would miss them more than they miss you. You're on the road - a Lone Wolf - away from your life. They are at home involved in the cares of life.

 

From reading your OP, I think I am a bit like her in my reactions. So I think I kinda understand what you are walking in to when you get back from a business trip. She is at home with all the responsibilies on her shoulders. She has to be strong. She has to be independent. It is then hard to flip the switch and be vulnerable and soft when you get back from a business trip.

 

One trick that I think might be helpful - be "present" at the house even when you're on trips. Again, I'm not sure what her "love language" is - if she's into gifts, service, etc. but here are some ideas that would rock my world:

 

1. Every now and again, send her something in the mail. If she works outside the home, getting flowers at work ALWAYS made me feel so special. Get the kind that come in a vase - not the kind that come in a box that she has to arrange. First impressions are everything!

 

I also love getting pajama grams - so much fun! {Google it if you've never heard of them.}

 

Don't select something sexy {that says to her that the gift is about you and not her} make sure to add a bubble bath or some kind of bath fizzy. In the gift note tell her you know it's stressful for her "doing it all" while you're away. Tell her how much you appreciate having a wife who can do it all - she's your Super Woman! Then tell her that tonight, you hope she'll put the world aside for a little while after the kids are in bed and relax and unwind in a hot bubble bath.

 

2. Take a digital photo of yourself waving and smiling. Print it out and tuck it away where you know she will find it {on the treadmill, in the fridge, in her car, etc.}. Write a note on it - even something simple like "Hi! Love you - have a great day!"

 

3. Slip a hand-written love note into her coat pocket or somewhere she will find it.

 

While you're away, think of that time as foreplay. It will probably be hard for her to jump you after being in Super Woman mode. If you can stay connected during that time - beyond a phone call or email where you are updated on their daily schedules and other business of the day. You need to connect emotionally with her and that's not saying, "I miss you" because she will feel obligated to reciprocate even if she doesn't. Instead, you need to stroke her ego.

 

Well, I hope some of this might help!

 

Your wife is a very lucky woman to have a husband who is willing to do the work. Remember, the effort you are expending is not because she deserves it, because clearly sometimes she doesn't. The effort is done to honor her position as your wife. Loving her even when she is not loveable or deserving is one of the highest callings of a husband. You guys certainly don't have it easy!

[Ronni_W]

Hey ^5.

Good job on coming here to rant...instead of just "stewing in it"

It occurs to me to ask. In the past, let's say 7 years, what is the longest period in your marriage that you have NOT felt insecure, victimized, taken for granted, needy? What was going on during that period? - What were you perceiving that your wife was giving you that she has not been giving you since your last post?

 

How did you want your wife to act -- specifically what did you want her to say and do -- to show/prove to you that she missed you after your travels? What would have been "enough" to fill your deep pit of insecurity and neediness? (Assuming, of course, that it is her responsibility to do that.)

 

See how this sits/fits: You need-want (expect?) your wife to act in ways that obviously do not conform to how SHE shows her love and appreciation. It is apparent that how she does it is (MUCH?) more laid-back than you need/want/prefer it. She simply is not prone to the type of "jump up and down, and do cartwheels" kind of show that *might* sufficiently fill your deep pit of neediness and insecurity.

 

So. I'm wondering. Have you considered wanting-trying to understand how SHE wants/needs/prefers to give and receive romantic love, with the goal of then accepting that how she gives and receives romantic love is just her "normal" and NOT a reflection of how much she loves, appreciates and wants you.

 

I think. She just is less needy than you, and more secure. Naturally so, and for whatever reason(s). But you're wanting her to change HER natural way of giving and receiving romantic love, instead of you just loving and appreciating her for how she does it. YOU keep judging her for it; YOU keep calling "not good enough"; YOU are not showing any interest in how SHE wants, needs and prefers; YOU are taking what she is giving you for granted, and wanting/expecting something else.

 

Every time there is a bit of space in your deep pit of neediness and insecurity, you're telling yourself that your wife has stopped loving and/or appreciating you, and is not interested in and/or attracted to you.

 

But it's NOT that! She is 100% loving and appreciating you in the way that is HER "normal". Her body has NEW needs about sex and physical intimacy - why are you making that about you?

 

YOU are taking her for granted. YOU are expecting a painting from a poet. YOU are not loving and appreciating her 'poetry'. YOU just keep bitching about that fact that she's not giving you a painting.

 

Truth is, though: If you can't see the beauty in, and be satisfied by, her poems...what on earth makes you think a painting is all-of-a-sudden gonna do it for you? You're just gonna start bitching about whatever is "not good enough" with the painting...most likely...yes?

 

So.

See how all of that sits. If it does not resonate, then...well, please just pretend that I was never here .

But if it does kinda-maybe fit, then I'd encourage you to start considering GIVING a LOT more of what you think you're not getting -- that being genuine love and appreciation for who she is and how she does things, INCLUDING the way she gives and receives romantic love, and INCLUDING the fact that she is not as sexual as she once may have been and/or as you still are.

[highfive]

Hi Ronni,

 

Thanks, as usual your reply makes a great deal of sense, and I see your point. For the most part, I have learned to love, support and respect my wife in the manner that I know she wants.

 

My "complaints" about the way the I want/need to be loved are all based on the physical aspects, but I don't talk about it with her anymore. Please understand: sometimes I just want to be loved in the way I want. I know, it seems it is all about me, but I think she also needs to understand what I need. To me it seems that she now just loves me as a very close friend. I have tried and tried just about everything to love her the way she wants. I don't expect too much in return, but she is almost totally uninterested in anything physical. I don't know what else to try anymore. I almost feel that I should have a talk with her, to let her know that she is the world to me, and that I appreciate all the support and love she gives me, but that I really want us to reconnect in a romantic way, that I miss and desire this aspect of our relationship.

 

In the long run, I really have to re-evaluate my marriage: should I stay in a marriage where my wife and I are just best friends? Perhaps this is the way long-term marriages turn out? I love her as much as always, I just don't know if it is fair to her, and me, to keep the marriage going if she does not feel the same anymore? She seems happy enough now that we are emotionally closer, but perhaps she wants to be in a relationship in which she is attracted to her partner? Is it fair of me to keep her? Maybe I should let her free?

 

I know, I know, a crazy victim type rant, but I am worried about the long term. I want this marriage to last, but for that, we both need to be satisfied with the love we receive.

[hopeful1980]

High5, I don't think what you are asking is unreasonable. We all want to be loved in the way we want. I don't think that's a selfish request, especially when you are mindful of giving her what it is she wants/needs.

[Ronni_W]

Hey ^5.

Of course you want, and need, to be loved in the way that you want -- we all do want that. As hopeful says, that is not unreasonable or unrealistic to expect from those who love and care about us. It is not "crazy" to want that.

, but I think she also needs to understand what I need.

No, not really. That is, she does not NEED to understand what you need. She NEEDS fresh air, clean water, nutritious food, sufficient shelter from the elements and enough restful sleep. That is all that she actually NEEDS. Then. Access to health care, ability to self-determine, stuff like that.

 

As far as your marriage goes, YOU need to help her understand what and how you need. You also need to do other relationship and lifestyle stuff, but leaving that aside for the moment.

I almost feel that I should have a talk with her, to let her know that she is the world to me, and that I appreciate all the support and love she gives me, but that I really want us to reconnect in a romantic way, that I miss and desire this aspect of our relationship.

Of course you ought to be communicating with her!!! It is YOUR self-responsibility and your obligation in your relationship to effectively express your own needs, thoughts, opinions, desires, upsets and frustrations; to be emotionally intimate; to reveal your own Self.

 

It's not even that you "should" do it, or that you "need" to do it. It is a task that you CAN do if you want to; if you decide to; if you choose to.

 

However, the consequence of NOT doing it is...exactly what you have been experiencing: frustration because you are not getting your (UNEXPRESSED!) needs met. I honestly don't know ANY person who is so lucky that all his or her 'important people' are so psychic as to be able to just know and "understand" what she or he needs for his or her own short and long-term happiness and fulfillment.

 

I would say. *IF* you have been trying to express your own authentic, reasonable, appropriate, healthy needs, then (a) you have not been doing it effectively, or (b) she does not give a crap about helping you feel loved and appreciated in the way that you need.

 

My interpretation from your posts is that the challenge to your marriage is that YOU have been ignoring / hiding from expressing your upset and frustration. And I don't mean just talking/venting about it. I mean.

 

Okay. It comes across that sometimes you may get into a tendency of acting rather too passive, or passive-aggressive. And/but. YOUR inability to effectively verbalize YOUR needs, upsets and frustrations, and YOUR desire to avoid conflict at all costs...those are YOUR personal problems to resolve/overcome.

 

Of course you can dump your marriage. But that will not make you any more assertive, nor will it help you learn how to more appropriately deal with inevitable conflicts in relationships -- including conflicts/differences in sexual urges and desires.

 

I would suggest. BEFORE you run away from your marriage, perhaps first do some individual therapy and/or assertiveness training, and get to the bottom of your own conflict avoidance and inability to openly, directly and clearly express 'you'. (I'm assuming that you've already read every single book and article on diminishing/vanishing libidos from both male and female perspectives.)

 

See. I didn't do the "personal work" BEFORE I got divorced. And, I'm really not sure if that would have been enough for me to save my marriage, anyway.

But I do know for 100% sure that JUST changing one's partner and the "scenery" of which one has grown disenchanted is not enough to ensure future happiness and fulfillment.

And I do know that divorce 100% sucks. Big time. You will HATE it!

 

For what it's worth. On the whole, it sounds as if you two have a good thing going. It sounds as if where you are now is due to...well, your self-sabotaging / relationship-defeating tendencies and habits already mentioned.

 

NOT that your wife doesn't have hers, of course not. But she isn't the one, according to your perceptions, who is feeling unfulfilled, unloved and frustrated to the max.

And not that I don't know how that feels...to have that persistent sense of not being loved or appreciated; of not being special; even of having lost purpose and meaning.

 

I do know how that feels, highfive. And then you get divorced, and it gets a HELLUVA lot worse. And then one REALLY has to do the "work" for it to get better.

At least. That was my experience.

 

Sending hugs, and Guidance.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Ronni_W
grammar

[mem11363]

Delete some messages in your inbox. I tried to PM you but your mailbox is at quota.

 

 

Hi Ronni,

 

Thanks, as usual your reply makes a great deal of sense, and I see your point. For the most part, I have learned to love, support and respect my wife in the manner that I know she wants.

 

My "complaints" about the way the I want/need to be loved are all based on the physical aspects, but I don't talk about it with her anymore. Please understand: sometimes I just want to be loved in the way I want. I know, it seems it is all about me, but I think she also needs to understand what I need. To me it seems that she now just loves me as a very close friend. I have tried and tried just about everything to love her the way she wants. I don't expect too much in return, but she is almost totally uninterested in anything physical. I don't know what else to try anymore. I almost feel that I should have a talk with her, to let her know that she is the world to me, and that I appreciate all the support and love she gives me, but that I really want us to reconnect in a romantic way, that I miss and desire this aspect of our relationship.

 

In the long run, I really have to re-evaluate my marriage: should I stay in a marriage where my wife and I are just best friends? Perhaps this is the way long-term marriages turn out? I love her as much as always, I just don't know if it is fair to her, and me, to keep the marriage going if she does not feel the same anymore? She seems happy enough now that we are emotionally closer, but perhaps she wants to be in a relationship in which she is attracted to her partner? Is it fair of me to keep her? Maybe I should let her free?

 

I know, I know, a crazy victim type rant, but I am worried about the long term. I want this marriage to last, but for that, we both need to be satisfied with the love we receive.

[mareile]

 

My "complaints" about the way the I want/need to be loved are all based on the physical aspects, but I don't talk about it with her anymore. Please understand: sometimes I just want to be loved in the way I want. I know, it seems it is all about me, but I think she also needs to understand what I need. To me it seems that she now just loves me as a very close friend. I have tried and tried just about everything to love her the way she wants. I don't expect too much in return, but she is almost totally uninterested in anything physical. I don't know what else to try anymore. I almost feel that I should have a talk with her, to let her know that she is the world to me, and that I appreciate all the support and love she gives me, but that I really want us to reconnect in a romantic way, that I miss and desire this aspect of our relationship.

 

In the long run, I really have to re-evaluate my marriage: should I stay in a marriage where my wife and I are just best friends? Perhaps this is the way long-term marriages turn out? I love her as much as always, I just don't know if it is fair to her, and me, to keep the marriage going if she does not feel the same anymore? She seems happy enough now that we are emotionally closer, but perhaps she wants to be in a relationship in which she is attracted to her partner? Is it fair of me to keep her? Maybe I should let her free?

 

I know, I know, a crazy victim type rant, but I am worried about the long term. I want this marriage to last, but for that, we both need to be satisfied with the love we receive.

 

 

High 5 it sounds like your wife needs some kind of shaking up or waking up. Something that will bring her out of her stupor and to a point of decision.

 

She needs to choose you, again.

 

Just what form that shaking or waking would effectively take, is really individual to her and you... it could be something that you do, or it could be something that begins in her, though this could take much longer.

 

It sounds like it may have to come from you. I think the longer you wait, the harder it gets in the long run to bring things back to where you'd like them to be.

[highfive]

Delete some messages in your inbox. I tried to PM you but your mailbox is at quota.

Thanks, will delete some messages now!

[highfive]

Hey ^5.

Of course you want, and need, to be loved in the way that you want -- we all do want that. As hopeful says, that is not unreasonable or unrealistic to expect from those who love and care about us. It is not "crazy" to want that.

 

No, not really. That is, she does not NEED to understand what you need. She NEEDS fresh air, clean water, nutritious food, sufficient shelter from the elements and enough restful sleep. That is all that she actually NEEDS. Then. Access to health care, ability to self-determine, stuff like that.

 

As far as your marriage goes, YOU need to help her understand what and how you need. You also need to do other relationship and lifestyle stuff, but leaving that aside for the moment.

Of course you ought to be communicating with her!!! It is YOUR self-responsibility and your obligation in your relationship to effectively express your own needs, thoughts, opinions, desires, upsets and frustrations; to be emotionally intimate; to reveal your own Self.

 

It's not even that you "should" do it, or that you "need" to do it. It is a task that you CAN do if you want to; if you decide to; if you choose to.

 

However, the consequence of NOT doing it is...exactly what you have been experiencing: frustration because you are not getting your (UNEXPRESSED!) needs met. I honestly don't know ANY person who is so lucky that all his or her 'important people' are so psychic as to be able to just know and "understand" what she or he needs for his or her own short and long-term happiness and fulfillment.

 

I would say. *IF* you have been trying to express your own authentic, reasonable, appropriate, healthy needs, then (a) you have not been doing it effectively, or (b) she does not give a crap about helping you feel loved and appreciated in the way that you need.

 

My interpretation from your posts is that the challenge to your marriage is that YOU have been ignoring / hiding from expressing your upset and frustration. And I don't mean just talking/venting about it. I mean.

 

Okay. It comes across that sometimes you may get into a tendency of acting rather too passive, or passive-aggressive. And/but. YOUR inability to effectively verbalize YOUR needs, upsets and frustrations, and YOUR desire to avoid conflict at all costs...those are YOUR personal problems to resolve/overcome.

 

Of course you can dump your marriage. But that will not make you any more assertive, nor will it help you learn how to more appropriately deal with inevitable conflicts in relationships -- including conflicts/differences in sexual urges and desires.

 

I would suggest. BEFORE you run away from your marriage, perhaps first do some individual therapy and/or assertiveness training, and get to the bottom of your own conflict avoidance and inability to openly, directly and clearly express 'you'. (I'm assuming that you've already read every single book and article on diminishing/vanishing libidos from both male and female perspectives.)

 

See. I didn't do the "personal work" BEFORE I got divorced. And, I'm really not sure if that would have been enough for me to save my marriage, anyway.

But I do know for 100% sure that JUST changing one's partner and the "scenery" of which one has grown disenchanted is not enough to ensure future happiness and fulfillment.

And I do know that divorce 100% sucks. Big time. You will HATE it!

 

For what it's worth. On the whole, it sounds as if you two have a good thing going. It sounds as if where you are now is due to...well, your self-sabotaging / relationship-defeating tendencies and habits already mentioned.

 

NOT that your wife doesn't have hers, of course not. But she isn't the one, according to your perceptions, who is feeling unfulfilled, unloved and frustrated to the max.

And not that I don't know how that feels...to have that persistent sense of not being loved or appreciated; of not being special; even of having lost purpose and meaning.

 

I do know how that feels, highfive. And then you get divorced, and it gets a HELLUVA lot worse. And then one REALLY has to do the "work" for it to get better.

At least. That was my experience.

 

Sending hugs, and Guidance.

 

Hi Ronni,

 

Happy New Year to you!

 

It has been some time since I posted here; been very busy with the Holidays, spending time with my family and reflecting on my marriage.

 

As usual, your advice hit the mark on almost all counts

 

My wife and I are now very close emotionally, but the physical aspect is still luke-warm! She is becoming more affectionate, but her libido is still on the down-swing.I am confident that this is due to physical changes, and I don't pressure her about it.

 

I feel that we should, however, talk about how I am feeling about the lack of intimacy, but I need to choose my words carefully because in the past she would get very defensive and then withdraw, probably because my tone and words suggested that I was blaming her / trying to make her feel guilty.

 

So, I am going to talk with her about this, stressing right from the start that I don't blame her, and that I want us to be physically close again and ask her for feedback about how we get there. I want her to understand that this is important to me but that I want to work through this together for the long-term strength of our marriage.

 

Mid-life is really about learning isn't it?

[2sunny]

how about writing her a letter instead of risking a tone she may not receive favorably?

 

after she's read it and thought about it a while you could both discuss it...

[AmIParanoid]

I think it's reasonably likely your wife may have cheated on you, either emotionally or physically or both.

 

When a woman says she needs a few days away by herself, needs space, etc., that's usually an indicator.

 

Also, she wasn't happy when you were physically or emotionally distant, yet wasn't close to you when you were there.

 

It sounds to me like she's blame-shifting big time on you to keep you on the defensive and off balance.

 

The next time you go out of town on a business trip, you might want to consider hiring a private investigator to keep an eye on her. In fact you should probably hire one right now.

[Bright Shadow]

I feel that we should, however, talk about how I am feeling about the lack of intimacy, but I need to choose my words carefully because in the past she would get very defensive and then withdraw, probably because my tone and words suggested that I was blaming her / trying to make her feel guilty.

I think this thread is a testament to the fact that all marriages with problems aren't the same. I think you , ^5, are a pretty attentive husband and have always been thus. Even with the workload you take on. The early advice was to become more attentive, which in your case, I think is counter-productive. The more attentive you are, the worse your wife responds to you. Would you agree that that's how things went? It's only as you've dealt with your insecurities and become more confident that things have improved, right?

 

I don't think your wife finds you attractive. And for a long time you haven't been much fun to be around. If you were fun to be around, a lot of your failings would be , well, not forgiven, but not likely to end the marriage either.

 

I'm going to suggest something counter-intuitive. Don't talk to her about her lack of intimacy. Don't talk to her about how the marriage could be improved. Continue your journey of self-improvement and concentrate on that.

[highfive]

I think this thread is a testament to the fact that all marriages with problems aren't the same. I think you , ^5, are a pretty attentive husband and have always been thus. Even with the workload you take on. The early advice was to become more attentive, which in your case, I think is counter-productive. The more attentive you are, the worse your wife responds to you. Would you agree that that's how things went? It's only as you've dealt with your insecurities and become more confident that things have improved, right?

 

I don't think your wife finds you attractive. And for a long time you haven't been much fun to be around. If you were fun to be around, a lot of your failings would be , well, not forgiven, but not likely to end the marriage either.

 

I'm going to suggest something counter-intuitive. Don't talk to her about her lack of intimacy. Don't talk to her about how the marriage could be improved. Continue your journey of self-improvement and concentrate on that.

 

Thank you Bright Shadow for your thought-provoking post.

 

Since I started this journey of self-improvement I have learned a great deal about myself, and relationships.

 

With respect to my marriage, here is my assessment:

 

Attentiveness: When we were first married I was not as attentive as I should have been (she told me), so I quickly adjusted my behavior and since about marriage year 3, I have always been very attentive to my wife's needs, perhaps too much so at times. However, during periods of intensive technical work, I became too distant for a few months, hence the beginning of this LONG thread. My wife responds best when I am attentive but not to the point of crowding. Listening well is the best way for me to be attentive, and to leave work "at the door" when I come home.

 

Intimacy: For the first few years of our relationship (say 5 years), we were both equally interested in sex, with her initiating as often as me. Then our first and second children came along (as a result of the frequent intimacy ), as the sex waned, which is natural. For the past 10 years or so, I have almost always been the one to initiate intimacy, and to try new things to spice up our love life. Until about 3 years ago, this seemed to work well, she would almost always respond, but I have became the initiator, 100% of the time. This means that she never has to look or ask for sex, I am always ready, willing, and initiating! This did (does) make me mad and somewhat resentful (I wish she would initiate), so I stopped pursuing her, but nothing would change, so I know this approach does not work.

 

Insecurity / confidence: This journey has taught me that the BIGGEST turn-off was my insecurity and lack of confidence, esp about my marriage. I was way too needy, and she hated this. For the most part, this is no longer a problem, and I think this (my new-found confidence) is the main reason why we have reconnected emotionally. Confidence is attractive.

 

Present Libido Imbalance: My libido is about where it always has been, about 8 on a scale of 1 to 10. My wife's libido is presently about a 3 out of 10, hence the issue. My challenge was to learn not to take this personally. We are now emotionally very close, she is affectionate, and says I Love You often, but her sex-drive is dimishing. This is not her fault, or mine! I am now convinced that it is due to nature! This makes talking about sex a lot easier because I don't blame her, and I don't want to make her feel guilty.

 

Comments?

 

Happy new year all!

 

^5