Fact VS Truth

[Luz]

Question for everyone !

 

In your view , is there a difference between fact and truth ? What is it ?

[Keridan]

It's hard to say. I guess truth is how we perceive the facts..? Hence truth is subjective, but facts aren't.

[Lovelybird]

Facts is what is happening, or circumstances. Truth is something that not is easily been seen, but absolutely true. Truth can set people free, facts confuse people. If a person stuck with facts, then he can hardly see things beyond surface. but if he can see the truth, he can master the facts, and rise above situations

 

Truth comes from above.

[Trojan John]

The truth is just a shorter word for "verified fact". Simple.

[disgracian]

Truth has a variety of meanings. In one sense, it can be honesty. So the truth can be completely and utterly wrong.

 

Both have their place, but those who exhalt one above the other reveal their own bias.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

Facts are malleable and contradictory. What we held as facts yesterday can be changed when more facts are gleamed. Take how many times we have changed the design of the tyrannosaurs rex or that certain popular scientific beliefs and practices have changed because they turned out to be more harmful than good. How many FACTS are their on one subject like, to spank or not to spank or should a woman ask a guy or is that his job?

 

Truth is solid and unchanging. Yes we may THINK it is or may decide to ignore it, but the truth is the truth from the first day it was conceived. The fact that dinosaurs existed would be a truth (they my not have been called dinosaurs, but they existed). Truth is that all scientific beliefs and practices have results (good or bad). The truth is spanking is a form of control. And the truth is either gender is free to ask whom they like out.

 

 

DNR

[disgracian]

Sorry Dark, but you're use of the word "truth" is more akin to your own personal opinions. True enough, facts are replaced by other facts when the data warrants it, but truth changes if anything more frequently. This goes for individuals and societies as a whole.

 

Nobody can agree on what is truth. Facts are usually harder to dispute.

 

The only thing that is unchanging is reality itself. The reason facts and truth changes so much is because we don't have a very good grasp of reality.

 

Cheers,

D.

[angryyoungman70]

It's rather interesting that the OP would pose this question, as it is a question that I had pondered all weekend. I suspect that the definition of both depends on the individual's perspective regarding what they believe to be either.

 

Here's my own logical anaysis of each based on critical thinking (a tip of my hat to you disgracian).

 

Yes, these are direct quotes from the dictionary:

 

Truth

1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.

2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.

3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.

4. the state or character of being true.

5. actuality or actual existence.

6. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.

7. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.

8. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and transcending perceived experience: the basic truths of life.

9. agreement with a standard or original.

10. accuracy, as of position or adjustment.

 

Fact

1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.

2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.

3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.

—Idioms

6. after the fact, Law. after the commission of a crime: an accessory after the fact.

7. before the fact, Law. prior to the commission of a crime: an accessory before the fact.

8. in fact, actually; really; indeed: In fact, it was a wonder that anyone survived.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

It's rather interesting that the OP would pose this question, as it is a question that I had pondered all weekend. I suspect that the definition of both depends on the individual's perspective regarding what they believe to be either.

 

Here's my own logical anaysis of each based on critical thinking (a tip of my hat to you disgracian).

 

Yes, these are direct quotes from the dictionary:

 

Truth

1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.

2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.

3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.

4. the state or character of being true.

5. actuality or actual existence.

6. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.

7. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.

8. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and transcending perceived experience: the basic truths of life.

9. agreement with a standard or original.

10. accuracy, as of position or adjustment.

 

Fact

1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.

2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.

3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.

—Idioms

6. after the fact, Law. after the commission of a crime: an accessory after the fact.

7. before the fact, Law. prior to the commission of a crime: an accessory before the fact.

8. in fact, actually; really; indeed: In fact, it was a wonder that anyone survived.

 

There is one problem with this explanation. The things you state under truth are all dependent on facts, which change from day-to-day and can be disputed by opposing sources.

 

 

DNR

[angryyoungman70]

There is one problem with this explanation. The things you state under truth are all dependent on facts, which change from day-to-day and can be disputed by opposing sources.

 

 

DNR

 

I don't see it as a problem. Truth is inherintly based on fact. If facts change, so does truth.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

Then there would be no such thing as truth or true then, because truth would be based upon the individual, the time, and the fickle nature of people. This means if tomorrow facts claim there is not such thing as a sun, because science says it so, but a few know that science is wrong in their beliefs, does this still mean that there is no sun? If by facts people say you are not real, does truth mean you are not real?

 

 

DNR

[angryyoungman70]

Then there would be no such thing as truth or true then, because truth would be based upon the individual, the time, and the fickle nature of people. This means if tomorrow facts claim there is not such thing as a sun, because science says it so, but a few know that science is wrong in their beliefs, does this still mean that there is no sun? If by facts people say you are not real, does truth mean you are not real?

 

 

DNR

 

Beliefs really should have no context when it comes to facts or truth. Nor do what "people say" have any bearing on fact or truth.

 

Although I think I get where you are coming from DNR, I don't think your analogy is the best example you could have used.

 

The star that the planets in or solar system orbit (Sol) is largely responsible for life on our planet (Terra). If science (at least popular science) dictates that there is no such thing as a "sun" in our solar system, and states it as FACT, how much credibility do we place in popular science then?

 

Stating something as such as fact is completely absurd. It negates our entire existance.

 

I think a better analogy you could have used woukld be dinosaurs. When the ancient Greeks first found fossil evidence of dinosaurs, they theorised (not factualized) that these massive bones were evidence of giant god-like beings such as the likes of Titans and Gigantes. The common BELIEF at the time was that these fossils were of Olympian nature. We know better nowadays, but in actuallity, dinosaurs can not be proved 100% right? (and just last weekend, I was digging for fossils in the badlands)

 

Fact is not dependant on what "people say", it is based on indisputable proof. For example, it is a fact that I am 37 years old. I can reference my birth certificate for evidence. Our planet orbits our star, Sol, once every 365.26 solar days. Since I was born in the year of 1970 (Gregorian Calendar reference) I conclude that I am , in FACT 37 years old. The preceding statement is true.

 

Cheers,

AYM70

[Trojan John]

I think people are getting caught up in making their own definitions for words. "Truth" and "fact" are synonymous words. When people start adding their own personal beliefs and things to statements, then offer them up as "truth" with no objective supporting "fact", then it ceases to be the truth.

 

What some of you are arguing is that "theories" change based on new sets of facts. That is the nature of theories. They are still backed up by fact, though.

[angryyoungman70]

I think people are getting caught up in making their own definitions for words. "Truth" and "fact" are synonymous words. When people start adding their own personal beliefs and things to statements, then offer them up as "truth" with no objective supporting "fact", then it ceases to be the truth.

 

What some of you are arguing is that "theories" change based on new sets of facts. That is the nature of theories. They are still backed up by fact, though.

 

Well said.

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

I think people are getting caught up in making their own definitions for words. "Truth" and "fact" are synonymous words. When people start adding their own personal beliefs and things to statements, then offer them up as "truth" with no objective supporting "fact", then it ceases to be the truth.

 

What some of you are arguing is that "theories" change based on new sets of facts. That is the nature of theories. They are still backed up by fact, though.

Absolutely. The facts make up the truth, and that's how she goes.

 

Hence why Christianity will never be a real truth, in the objective sense (because I know that that's what this thread is getting at).

[Dark-N-Romantic]

So I ask this on a broader level...

 

If one of you died today. The fact is that you lived and the truth is you were a living being. Lets say you dropped out of sight or died. All records of your existence was erased. No one was left to tell tales of you. So, now that no one have any facts that you ever existed, is the truth you never did?

 

 

DNR

You can't play symantics with truth. Truth is not something based on the fickled nature of man. It is solid and stands the test of time. It will even with stand every attempt by fact to disprove it.

[FleshNBones]

TRUTH is arbitrated by an AUTHORITY. What authority used is determined by the individual so I guess the ultimate authority is the individual. BIAS works into this decision, and is fairly obvious to most people.

 

Moose can call the Bible a book on TRUTH, and a few others can call Athiesm the TRUTH. They are all correct from their own point of view.

This is why I laugh when I get lectured about the Truth, and get irritated by LIEs (let's be honest).

 

What is a LIE? It is something said by someone who believes it is not true, but asserts that it is true.

 

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a LIE and nobody is fooled. Telling LIEs when trying to further a TRUTH will only destroy your creditability. I am spending far less time on certain topics, because certain people have lost all creditability in my eyes.

 

The belief in God is not a LIE. For the believers, there is TRUTH to God's existence.

 

 

This is a little off topic. Too many of the critics of Christianity put their efforts into tearing him down than promoting something else. From my perspective, that come across as satanic.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

Actually the Bible is not truth. Though those who believe have to accept it as truth for that is what our faith tells us. But, in the overall meaning of the word... The Bible is not truth because in this world it is all based on faith. So, in other words, though we accept the Bible as Truth, to the grand scheme of definition, it would only be considered a fact, meaning it is something that we find evidence in and hold as real. Now how true it is can only be proven by either dying and going to Heaven, the Earth, or Hell. Then, and only then will anyone know the truth.

 

 

DNR

[Luz]

Great posts and arguments !

 

Therefore , I concluded that facts are objective , proven events , occurences , informations where " truth " is subjective , conceptual . They are interrelated but yet the bottom line is really what is the truth ? Perhaps , what each of us believes to be true is based on our own personal beliefs , perceptions , experiences .

[D-Lish]

Facts can be measured, charted, quanitifed, and by the very definition of the word- A fact is undisputable.

 

Wanna dissect what truth is? It's much more complicated.

I'd probably get into Plato's writing of Socrates "Cave Ananogy", or the buddhist perception of enlightenment. But it would go much deeper than that.

 

Just depends how long of an answer you are looking for- because I could write for hours on "truth"....

I'm sleepy now though ;-)

[Trojan John]

I respectfully beg to differ on some definitions of "truth". I hold the dictionary defined definition of "truth" in higer regard than anyone's personally defined definition. I think it would be better in this thread to debate the "theory or philosophy" of truth instead, especially as it relates to one's spiritual beliefs. Once again, when people start applying their own definitions to the word "truth" it becomes a misnomer; it ceases to be the actual, factual truth.

[NoIDidn't]

I think people are getting caught up in making their own definitions for words. "Truth" and "fact" are synonymous words. When people start adding their own personal beliefs and things to statements, then offer them up as "truth" with no objective supporting "fact", then it ceases to be the truth.

 

What some of you are arguing is that "theories" change based on new sets of facts. That is the nature of theories. They are still backed up by fact, though.

 

I agree.

 

Facts don't change. Theories do. Theories just get backed up by new knowledge - previously unknown facts (not anything really new).