What does it all mean?

[rsm]

Here’s where I am. Married 9 years, together 13, 2 kids. Recently my wife tells me she feels like she needs us to separate so she can figure out how she feels about me and figure herself out (she was 21 when we married, 17 when we meet). She has given me the “I love you, but don’t know if I’m in love with you”. She says it’s not for dating or “seeing what’s out there”.

 

I know the first thing I will hear is, there’s someone else. I know that’s a possibility but I am fairly sure there isn’t. I have opened the discussion of there being someone else and made it clear that if there is that I would not try and stop her from separating and I would make things as easy as possible to do a separation right, in terms of the kids but she says that that is not the case. Lying has never been an issue in our entire relationship.

 

I really do love her and support her need to separate and if this doesn’t work I am committed to make everything fair and keep the kids a priority. This woman has given me 2 beautiful children and 13 years of mostly good time. I on the other hand have been neglectful and selfish in terms of her needs. I will admit that I have been a good father and a good provider (along with my wife).

 

Most of the problem stems from what now, looking back, was a period of depression that showed itself as me being possessive and controlling. The years of this treatment and the inability to deal with it is what has driven her to feel like she doesn’t know who she is and that she was put in a cage. Add to that the fact that she has blossomed in her career and has been given more responsibility and sees that she is highly competent in what she does and is capable of thing she never thought she was capable of.

 

I have taken very hard looks at myself and how I used to be. I know I still have work to do but I understand now more than ever the kind of damage I have done to her. I know I can’t change the past but I am absolutely sorry for it and feel like I have changed.

 

Communication was never a strong area with us until we got to this point. Lately we have been able to talk about everything very openly. She says she feels like she can now talk to me as a friend. We still sleep in the same bed, we still have little moments of affection, a kiss before leaving in the morning, random hugs. We have been intimate about once a week, until this week. That is on place where we have never had problems, out of the blue she mentioned if we split she didn’t think she could find someone who was as compatible (putting it nicely) as us in bed. We both still find each other attractive. We are fine together, things are a little tense but we are still laughing and talking.

 

I am trying not to be overtly affectionate, I know I can’t win her back with romance. I am letting her tell me when she needs affection. It's difficult because it’s hard to act natural when you know things are going a certain way, but I get the sense she would want to hold hands or lay her head on my shoulder, but she sort of snaps out of it. I have mentioned to her that it feels like she has to have some sort of animosity in order to separate.

 

As far as the actual separation she has been looking into places to stay and is concerned with things like, can she find a 6 month lease (that’s sort of the time frame we’ve talked about, but I feel it could go longer). She is being very conservative in how to furnish her place, thinking cheap not about buying long lasting things, even for the kids beds she’s think just mattresses and the free frame that comes with it. I have mad it clear that she is not shouldering the financial load. I have told her as long as we are married we share the costs. I sort of see these as her really considering that she may come back after some time.

 

I have asked her flat out if the point of the separation is to figure us out and not to ease her way into a divorce. She say its to figure us out. She has said that divorce is something she wants to avoid, but we have talked about how thing would work if we did. I should mention she does not want MC, she doesn’t feel like she has the drive to really try to make it work.

 

My question is, will a separation help? Will she be able to disconnect the past and be able to figure out if I am still the one she wants to be with? Am I reading to far into the positive things that are still happening? Can this be saved?

[Ronni_W]

It is very likely that a separation WILL HELP to bring clarity, but as to the outcome of that clarity, no one can say...not her, not you, not anyone.

 

May I point out that you are still displaying "possessive and controlling" patterns in how you are thinking? (More accurately, of course, in how you expressed yourself in your post.)

 

"It feels that she must have animosity" -- why not let her decide what she "has" (that is, what SHE IS FEELING and thinking)? Let her tell you. Believe what she tells you.

Similar about the source of her discontent -- don't decide for her that it was your depression. Don't decide what feelings a particular event or circumstance "must have" generated within her. You can guess or suspect or assume or think or have an idea about it, but how you've expressed it here leaves no room for anything OTHER than your own opinion.

 

Don't use your "sense" as to when to hold her hand or whatever -- that she is pulling away at those times rather suggests that this sense is not functioning all that well at the moment, as far as she is concerned, doesn't it? Don't decide what fosters/nurtures her to feelings of competence and capability. All above is limiting anything else from manifesting for you or your wife (and the kids.)

 

DO do all the opposites of the "don'ts" - ask, ask and ask again...make as much space available for myriads of possibilities that you can't even imagine, and hopefully within that expansive arena there is a positive outcome for all concerned. Best of luck.

[Ladyjane14]

My question is, will a separation help?

 

I've always heard that physical separation increases the likelihood of permanent separation. It stands to reason that it would be so, because... what people usually learn is that they can do quite nicely without their partner. Separation also introduces the possibility that outside influences can cause NEW problems to go along with the old ones. One partner might decide to "date", causing hurt feelings for the other. An unplanned pregnancy could ensue, causing permanent changes in the dynamics of the family. You name it... the possibilities are endless.

 

Frankly, if you have the money to set up another residence, then Marriage Counseling would seem to be affordable. I'd try that first if I were you.

[whichwayisup]

Instead of separating, suggest to her that you both do marriage counselling. For the sake of your kids, you both need to give this marriage your best and work through past issues/resentments that's led to her wanting to separate.

 

Separating is going to hurt the kids and be harder on you both.

[rsm]

I would love to try MC but she doesn't feel like she is ready. She doesn't have the drive to put the work in. She says she wants, to want to try. I understand that, I just hope there is enough feeling for me that at some point during the separation she will consider MC. I know this will be hard on the kids but I keep telling myself that if it works we will be better off and if it doesn't we will already have a routine (which, by the way, is one week each living in the same city for school reasons). All I can hope for is that she is honest with me and herself when she says avoiding divorce is the reason for this.

[Ladyjane14]

I would love to try MC but she doesn't feel like she is ready. She doesn't have the drive to put the work in. She says she wants, to want to try. I understand that, I just hope there is enough feeling for me that at some point during the separation she will consider MC. I know this will be hard on the kids but I keep telling myself that if it works we will be better off and if it doesn't we will already have a routine (which, by the way, is one week each living in the same city for school reasons). All I can hope for is that she is honest with me and herself when she says avoiding divorce is the reason for this.

 

If she can't finance a second residence without your cooperation, then why not stand firm on a 'Marriage Counseling First' platform? Frankly, she has as much to lose as you do. You might get separated and decide you don't want her back.

[rsm]

She probably could handle the move by herself, we both do OK for ourselves, but, I feel like I have to support the move because the kids will have to live there also. I just don't have the leverage to demand MC. As it is she's about 60/40 for leaving but still feels like there's something there so she can't walk away. I'm fine with it as long as she is 100% for one or the other and not questioning her call.

[rsm]

One partner might decide to "date", causing hurt feelings for the other.

 

This is something we discussed and it is a deal breaker for me. I have enough respect for myself to not be waiting in the wings while my wife plays the field. I have no desire whatsoever to look for new love. We both agreed that if we separating with the intention of trying to work things out, the same rules apply as us being married.

[Ladyjane14]

I would love to try MC but she doesn't feel like she is ready. She doesn't have the drive to put the work in.

 

We both agreed that if we separating with the intention of trying to work things out, the same rules apply as us being married.

 

So, she's got a work ethic for "trying to work things out" if you agree to separation... but no "drive to put the work in"???

 

You're the 'man on the ground' of course, and you know your situation best. But, if I wanted a man out of my life... I'd ease him out of it, tell him what he wanted to hear, then give him time to get used to the idea. In fact, that was my EXACT plan when my husband and I were having problems a few years ago.

[dgiirl]

Why dont you take some initiative and make an appointment with a MC anyways? Just tell your wife that you made an appointment and she's free to come or not, her CHOICE, but you are going, and then you go. If she sees you go, it might peak her interest to tag along.

[HeatherAngel]

But, if I wanted a man out of my life... I'd ease him out of it, tell him what he wanted to hear, then give him time to get used to the idea. In fact, that was my EXACT plan when my husband and I were having problems a few years ago.

 

 

WHY, LJ? What does that accomplish? Is it 'kindness' to ease the other person into the idea? If that's what my husband is doing right now, I hate him for it - for not making a clean break so that I am no longer hopeful.

[rsm]

Ladyjane14

I hear what your saying maybe I can clarify. She doesn't feel like MC would do any good because her heart wouldn't be in it, she feels like she can't give any more. However, she feels like there is still something there and by separating she can have some clarity to see what that something is. She can figure out if she wants me, if it's a security thing or if I just may not be the person she wants to spend the rest of her life with. So in that respect she isn't "working" just giving herself time to sort out how she feels about me. On the other hand I am left hanging until she gets there.

 

I have made it crystal clear that if in fact she does want a divorce I will still support her and help her set up a new home. We both agree we can make it as agreeable as possible and keep the kids as thee priority. She doesn't have a great support system and I just cannot turn my back on her no matter how bad she hurts me. I'm a sucker I guess.

 

I know that I won't ever feel right unless I give it my best and I have accepted that I will have to suffer while she figures everything out. Again we are not hostile to each other, we are talking a bunch and we both know things aren't right. The funny thing is doing my best right now means doing nothing except be here and trying anything, if that makes sense.

[rsm]

dgiirl

I have tried that, not so much on purpose, but because I sought out a therapist to help me deal with the anxiety/depression associated with this. I also need to figure out a bunch more stuff about why I am how I am. I left the door open for her to join me but she didn't bite. I hope that during our separation she feels like MC could help.

[rsm]

HeatherAngel

I hope she isn't trying to "ease" me into it either. I have asked her to be honest and let me know if that was the case and she said it isn't. I just don't want to be a "safety net", and I have told her that as long as she's honest with me I will support her in separating and seeing what happens or if she wants a divorce.

[Ladyjane14]

WHY, LJ? What does that accomplish? Is it 'kindness' to ease the other person into the idea? If that's what my husband is doing right now, I hate him for it - for not making a clean break so that I am no longer hopeful.

 

In my case, it was a matter of conflict avoidance.

I was just tired of fighting... and, at the time, DONE with the marriage. That was my situation, not necessarily yours though. It's just one case scenario of many.

 

Ladyjane14

I hear what your saying maybe I can clarify. She doesn't feel like MC would do any good because her heart wouldn't be in it, she feels like she can't give any more. However, she feels like there is still something there and by separating she can have some clarity to see what that something is. She can figure out if she wants me, if it's a security thing or if I just may not be the person she wants to spend the rest of her life with. So in that respect she isn't "working" just giving herself time to sort out how she feels about me. On the other hand I am left hanging until she gets there.

 

I have made it crystal clear that if in fact she does want a divorce I will still support her and help her set up a new home. We both agree we can make it as agreeable as possible and keep the kids as thee priority. She doesn't have a great support system and I just cannot turn my back on her no matter how bad she hurts me. I'm a sucker I guess.

 

I know that I won't ever feel right unless I give it my best and I have accepted that I will have to suffer while she figures everything out. Again we are not hostile to each other, we are talking a bunch and we both know things aren't right. The funny thing is doing my best right now means doing nothing except be here and trying anything, if that makes sense.

 

As I said, you're the "man on the ground". You know your situation. You have to do what YOU think is best. But... if you're looking for opinions, I truly do believe that "trial separation" decreases the odds of marital recovery.

 

I don't believe I'd be married today if my husband and I had gone that route. Too many things might have gotten in the way. Life has a way of marching on, you know. And even if we HAD reconciled after separation... what we'd have learned above all... is where the door is when times get hard.

[rsm]

But... if you're looking for opinions, I truly do believe that "trial separation" decreases the odds of marital recovery.

 

I agree 100%, but, in this case I have no say. It's either go along with it or end it myself. I would love to keep her under the same roof and work it out but she feels this is what she needs to figure it all out.

[TrustInYourself]

I agree 100%, but, in this case I have no say. It's either go along with it or end it myself. I would love to keep her under the same roof and work it out but she feels this is what she needs to figure it all out.

 

Give it to her. Show her you love her more than you love yourself. Confidence and independence is only going to benefit you if you are willing to let go of your fears.

 

Keep in mind, you may lose her. In fact, you should be preparing yourself for exactly that fact. Does that mean that you must resist? Why resist? She's not willing to work on the marriage in the same house. Any attempts to force her or convince is just going to be counterproductive.

 

Besides, if she really wants to leave you, let her. Don't you deserve someone who really loves you and is willing to do anything to work it out and be with you?

[rsm]

Any attempts to force her or convince is just going to be counterproductive.

 

I agree, I am not even trying to stop her. I am trying to be supportive but not to helpful. I want her to make all the calls and am only there for support. i hate the idea, but i'll take the chance over ending it.

[jwi71]

I must I think it is hard to work on a marriage when apart. I really think that MC is the way to go.

She doesn't think it will work because her heart isn't in it? WTF? Then where is it?

 

I'm going to give a link and I want you and your wife to read it. Separately, then read it together. Then discuss.

 

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/isdivorcethesolution/qt/notinlove.htm

 

And, like you, I have two kids and my wife and I are having real issues (she was screwing her boss). When one parent leaves for an extended amount of time, it will affect your kids. Go to MC. She owes it to you, she owes it to herself and she owes it to her kids. Forget her needs...you and the kids have needs to and she needs to consider them. And she can do that by agreeing to 6 MC sessions. Not much to ask in my book.

[rsm]

jwi71

I read the article, i'm not really sure that's the case with us. There has been a lot of built up hurt that has contributed to her feelings. I took a hard look at myself and now see how the love disappeared. I know she hasn't put much into figuring her side of everything, but, I know I sort of sucked the life out of her drive to make us work. I was selfish and never really gave much thought into what she needed until a few years ago (too late) and I can see where that would take the wind out of her sail.

[Billy Bob]

I have asked her flat out if the point of the separation is to figure us out and not to ease her way into a divorce. She say its to figure us out. She has said that divorce is something she wants to avoid, but we have talked about how thing would work if we did. I should mention she does not want MC, she doesn’t feel like she has the drive to really try to make it work.

 

 

It's to figure out if she can do it on her own... It is a way to ease into a divorce. She is unsure, has never been on her own. She knows she wants out of the marriage, but probably wants to hurt you as little as possible, but would also like you as a fallback for now.

 

She doesn't want MC - that should tell you something right there. Don't believe anything she says now, she is telling you what she thinks you want to hear.

 

I could give you lots of advice on how I would proceed (getting divorce paperwork ready, manipulating her to get a good settlement and child custody), but I think you are still in fix-your-marriage-at-all-cost/desperate/clingy stage.

[rsm]

Here's an update. She no longer wants to move out. After a discussion she tells me it's not about being on her own she just isn't convinced I can change. She is afraid we'll slip back to our comfort zone and things won't change. She knows it will take time to see that I have changed but she get very angry thinking of the past, that's her biggest problem.

 

We will be separating still, but, only for 1 month so she can see if she can get to the point of working on us. This will be minimum contact, only to deal with the kids and we have worked out a schedule for me to spend time with them. The idea is to get me out of the day to day so she doesn't feel smothered by me so she can sort out if there's enough there to give me time to prove I get where I messed up and have really changed.

 

Things are still civil with us and the fights are more like heated discussions than fights. When I asked her what she wanted she said she wants a family, she just didn't know if I can be part of it. I asked her if she thinks she ever loved me and she said yes, hopefully we can get there again.

[SingleDad]

rsm - Great News !!!!

 

I am a strong believer that marriages can be saved.... I believe they can be saved even if only one person does all of the hard work.... It takes sublte acts of love and likdness to slowly soften the other spouse's cold heart around.

 

But you must be willing to do it out of your own strong conviction, morals and love - and expect no love or appreciation or even a change in the marriage to occur - but it just might.

 

Marriages break up because one spouse is not getting the kind of love and attention they expect - and have to break away and find freedom and hope that someone else out there can give it to them or fall into an affair... The left behind spouse needs to subtly change the thinking of the wayward spouse... but it is a process that will take months or years with nothing in return (to make up for what they were perceived as not getting before), and then continue for the duration of the marriage (where both spouses need to give to the other).

[rsm]

SingleDad

WOW! Thanks for the encouragement. I know this will be harder than it sounds, but, I am committed to give her space in the next 4 weeks. Oddly enough before we had our discussion she had made reservations at "our" restaurant for tonight (without telling me until after our scuffle), that is now up in the air but she said she'd call me later today, maybe i'll have a date tonight. Thanks again for the good thoughts

[TrustInYourself]

This positivity is making me nauseatated. Maybe.

 

I am the biggest a-hole on the planet. Thanks and good bye.