What does it all mean?

[Billy Bob]

This positivity is making me nauseatated. Maybe.

 

I am the biggest a-hole on the planet. Thanks and good bye.

 

He needs to kick the bitch to the curb! She's toying with him.

[TrustInYourself]

Hey, what's wrong with being a toy? As long as you are happy with it, be the toy. Go with it. Nothing wrong with that.

 

And I'll just throw this in. I dislike body odor and barack obama. Quote me.

[SingleDad]

TIY - our first disagreement.... I like Obama - we need some inspiration in govt.

[TrustInYourself]

Well, damn it. G dub for a third term. He may be a dumb monkey cowboy, but I love his gumption. Hoo-ah.

 

Wait, for Gunny...ooo-RAH!

[rsm]

Hey guys, I hear what your saying and I know there is a chance I'm being played but there is a lot riding on this. Mostly our 2 children, I don't believe in "staying together for the kids" but what about try everything for the kids. Even if that means we finally see eye to eye on why this has to end. I know I won't feel right if it didn't try.

[Gunny376]

:cool:I agree with you rsm, your best chance at true love and happiness is with your first wife and the Mother of your children. And you owe it to them to do everything you can to hold it together and make it work ~ for them. and for yourselves.

 

LJ's right, you've got to get past the "Hollyweird" version of love, and get pass the hormones ~ and find "true love" ~ the deep, long, ever-lasting love.

 

I really liked LJ's example of her DH needing him to fix him something to eat, even though he's fully capable of "making his own damn sandwich" because to him? That's an expression of her love for him. She knows and understands that ~ now. Something he, himself doesn't fully understand and comprehend.

 

Like LJ? I'm pretty much self-substaining. I don't need a whole lot of "oddles of noodles" ~ so to speak. I'm pretty basic and if I've three hots and a piece of ground to spread out on ~ I'm good to go.

 

But, I understand that a lot of people and even women aren't that way, for instance wouldn't even consider living in an apartment or house without wall to wall carpeting, (I'm happy with a partial roof and three out four walls. )

 

I've lived a Spartian life ~ but when I try to "project" my life experiences on someone else that hasn't shared them? You can spell that

T R O U B L E.

 

With my last LTR, the furnace went out in the house, and when I suggested we just go to bed and deal with it? I got, "I'm going to my Mama's!" And she got seriously PO when I was perfectly content to just go to bed, get under the covers, and get up the next morning and take an ice cold shower?

 

Sidebar

 

Obama is not qualified to be president, he's never lead anything ~ zilch~ nothing! He's too young, too in-experienced, and just isn't qualified.

 

The most qualified person IMHO to be the next president? Collin Powell. He's got the the military experience, he's got the State Dept expereience, National Security Advisor experience. He's got common-damn-sense. He comes from the "working poor" he's worked his way up in Life through perserveance, hard-work, determination, education. He's dealt with the "inner-workings" of any and all levels of government. He knows what it like to among the working poor, living on a budget, scrapping by, making do.

 

Besides, I like his favorite hobby. Re-building junk used cars from the ground up in his garage from the ground up into "vintage" show room cars.

 

I could see Collin and I hanging out in the White House garage rebuilding a 69' Pontiac GTO "Tha Judge" convertiable with a 440 ~ 4bbl.

 

Now that would be COOL!

[Ronni_W]

but she get very angry thinking of the past, that's her biggest problem.

Is there a plan in place, for her to start dealing with and releasing her old anger? That is HER responsibility to do, but if she doesn't it'll keep coming up to bite your relationship's butt.

Best of luck -- sounds like you're both on the same page and right track.

[dgiirl]

Hey guys, I hear what your saying and I know there is a chance I'm being played but there is a lot riding on this. Mostly our 2 children, I don't believe in "staying together for the kids" but what about try everything for the kids. Even if that means we finally see eye to eye on why this has to end. I know I won't feel right if it didn't try.

 

I dont think your wife is "playing games". Despite what some people say around here, I honestly do not think people who you've been in a long term relationship, who have always treated you and others good in the past, are not about to change so drastically that now all of a sudden all they are doing is playing games and trying to mess with your head. I dont think people intentionally go out of their way to hurt others if they were never the type in the past. Breakups ARE hard. And there are so many times where misunderstandings happen because the hurt feelings get in the way. And it's so easy to blame the other person for "playing games" when they dont react the way we want too. Yes, we have to expect SOME changes in their behaviour. That's part and parcel of breaking up. Some things they use to do while in a relationship with us, they wont be doing once they are NOT in a relationship with us. But during the "breaking up" phase, often they are just as confused as we are. They see the good points about the relationship, and they see the bad points, and they are trying to weight heavily which is better for them in the long run. This is why they often seem wishy washy.

 

rsm, you DID acknowledge that you've been depressed and that you seem to have come off as controlling and possessive. So take responsibility for that and work on that. Irregardless of WHO you are in a relationship with, those traits need to be resolved. Reflect on yourself and your life and see if there is anything else that you might need improvement on.

 

Your wife is also telling you how she FEELS. She feels like she's trapped in a cage. (Who wouldnt, she got married and pregnant SO young!) This isnt necessarily your fault. This is how she perceives her current life, and she needs to learn that HOW she thinks about things can have a great impact on how she feels about things. She (and anyone) really can stop feeling like she's trapped in a cage in an instant, once she understands the power of her own thoughts. But that's not for YOU to tell her. She needs to learn that on her own, otherwise all she'll hear is you saying "get over it". But she's giving you a great opportunity to see how she currently FEELS, and knowing how someone feels you can take proactive steps to make sure you are not contributing to those feelings.

 

She's also giving you some other tidbits of information. She's watching you from the corner of her eye to see if you can "change". Figure out and communicate with her what are some of the things you guys need to work on. If she says you are too controlling, honestly evaluate that statement, ask yourself if that's true, if it is, and if you want to fix that, then do so. If it's not true, then it could be her perception of things, and if that is the case, then look at things from her pov and ask yourself how and why SHE might perceive things and see if there are other ways you can deal with it.

 

For example, if she says you are always out of the house with your friends and you are never home to take care of the chores, ask yourself if that's true. If you are out every single day, then yes it is true. If you are only out one day of the week, then you know it's not true, but it is how she perceives things. Then ask yourself WHY she would perceive it that way. Maybe she feels that way because she never takes a break? You dont need to become defensive, nor do you HAVE to give up everything, but see if there are ways you can give HER a break too. One night a week you go out. One night a week she goes out. If she's too homebody to go out, then you can suggest taking her out. It's all about balancing the relationship.

 

A lot of people (men usually) dont get this. Not everything a person (usually women) say is 100% accurately true. A lot of times people will state things in absolute truths and in reality it's only how they perceive the situation. They will believe it's true because it's how they feel, and then tell their partner you have to change this. Then the partner will think upon it and argue back with their spouse saying it's not true. So here they both are bickering about the validity of TRUTH over a statement refusing to budge instead of actually working on the feelings surrounding the statement. And just because something might not be validly true doesnt mean someone's feelings should be dismissed. You cannot control how someone FEELS. And everyone has a right to FEEL how they want to feel. When a wife tells a husband she's mad, often the husband will tell her dont feel mad. She feels she was not heard nor her feelings were validated. Often, women cannot move on to the solution of fixing a problem until they feel their feelings about it have been validated. As women, we need to learn to validate our OWN feelings, but a lot of us dont know how, and as a man you can help a lot if before you start solving problems, you just return the acknowledgment first.

 

In any case, rsm, it sounds like your wife has one foot still in the door. It's your choice to either throw in the towel or not, but if you dont want to yet, then start/continue going to that marriage counsellor. Dont FORCE your wife to go, but by example you can at least show her you are serious about trying to change. Dont get into the mistake of "i'll do it only if you do it". If you are serious about making changes, then MAKE changes. Put the dedication and devotion into it. Not just for her, but for you too! Changes ONLY stick when that person is doing it for THEMSELVES. If you are only making changes based on a payback, ie, i'll do this if you do that, the changes will not stick and you'll revert back to old ways. But if she actually sees you are making changes based solely on what you want to do, not based on anything she does, then she will trust you. Right now she's watching.

[imagine]

Hey rsm

 

I suspect that your old lady may want to see some sort of direction from you.

 

You need a plan. If you don't have one or are not confident of the one that you have... go and check out the marriage builders site (just Google it...)

 

Then tell us how it worked for you!

[rsm]

I agree with you rsm, your best chance at true love and happiness is with your first wife and the Mother of your children. And you owe it to them to do everything you can to hold it together and make it work ~ for them. and for yourselves.

Gunny, this is how I feel also. I believe she is "done" but if she hasn't asked or filed for divorce and is willing to do this separation I have to give it a real try.

 

Is there a plan in place, for her to start dealing with and releasing her old anger? That is HER responsibility to do, but if she doesn't it'll keep coming up to bite your relationship's butt.

The plan is in place, we got the book "Should I Stay or Go?" about controlled separation and we've made our guidelines and we both feel good about it. I do hope she faces the anger but it's a tough one. I feel that talking about my shortcomings would help her, however, for her talking about them pushes her closer to giving up. I am afraid they will bite me again if we are able to keep it together.

 

dgiirl

Boy you had lots to say, thanks. My wife and I have always had a pretty honest relationship, games were never part of our lives or our carrers, so it does make sense that she wouldn't do a 180.

As far as the depression goes, I have taken all responsibility for my inattentiveness and controlling actions. They feelings aren't gone but I can control them.

The more we talk the less the "cage" is a factor. I've come to see that me and my past actions are to blame. I have always put family first, which I thought was right. Turns out I should have put my wife slightly above family because without her there is no family. Things like wanting to include the kids on getaways when she just wanted me and me putting the family as a whole above her as a wife.

I will continue to go to counseling for my own good. The very thought of MC makes my wife nauseous, as I have said she HATES confrontation. We tried it about 3 years ago and it didn't last long, she never felt comfortable with the therapist. Hopefully we can get some sort of middle man to help us out.

I suspect that your old lady may want to see some sort of direction from you.

 

You need a plan. If you don't have one or are not confident of the one that you have...

She knows my direction, I don't want this to be the end and I am ready to do what it takes to keep us together. The separation plan is the only one left. Hopefully she will bee able to see what she needs when it's done.

[cyabye]

WHY, LJ? What does that accomplish? Is it 'kindness' to ease the other person into the idea? If that's what my husband is doing right now, I hate him for it - for not making a clean break so that I am no longer hopeful.

 

Agreed. Seems like the cowardly way out. WAIT! Come to think of it that's what happened to me. When married you have a responsibility to the other person to express the truth, NOT lead them on until they "realize" or "get it".

 

Definately questioning that statement LJ or was there more to it regarding your husband? If you do not break it off clean, no worries, I will. This is one Kool Kat that will NEVER be led around by the nose again.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

 

C'YA BYE

[Ladyjane14]

Agreed. Seems like the cowardly way out. WAIT! Come to think of it that's what happened to me. When married you have a responsibility to the other person to express the truth, NOT lead them on until they "realize" or "get it".

 

Definately questioning that statement LJ or was there more to it regarding your husband? If you do not break it off clean, no worries, I will. This is one Kool Kat that will NEVER be led around by the nose again.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

 

C'YA BYE

 

Like I told Heather... it's a matter of conflict avoidance.

It's not about the guy you're dropping. It's not meant to be a "kindness". It's a matter of getting out without having to FIGHT your way out.

 

Is it nice? ...Nope. Not by a long shot.

But you know, by the time you've arrived at a point in which you feel like you're DONE... you just want the drama to stop. In my case, my husband was ALREADY being quite the a*hole, sneaking around behind my back, lying to me about his emotional involvement with other women, blaming me for all life's ills, and having the very whopper of a midlife meltdown. He was QUITE unpleasant at the time and had been for a good long while.. hyper-critical, snarky, angry, and going for the jugular in any kind of verbal exchange.

 

After I busted him on his bad behavior, I didn't ask for a divorce... I simply told him plain and simple I was getting one. But there was still the little matter of getting him out of the house.

He certainly wasn't obliged by law to leave. So... I suggested that we take a little time apart.

 

At the time, believe me, he'd have dearly LOVED to take a little marriage sabbatical, sow a few oats, and have hearth and home still waiting for him. To be honest, the hopeful look on his face alone would have sealed his fate if he'd taken me up on it. And I have to wonder if something on mine didn't tip him off... because instead of taking his cake and eating it too, he insisted he wanted nothing more than to work it out.

 

I've said before, "angels must've been sitting on our shoulders that day", because after that we were able to work things We've been recovered for four years and married for over 25.

But he did ask me later if I'd meant what I said about taking a break, and all I could do was look him in the eye and tell him that if he'd walked out that door, he wouldn't have been welcomed to walk back through it.

[cyabye]

LJ,

 

Fully understand now. Sorry you had to go through that. That's why I asked if there was more to it. For your situation, I agree with you totally.

 

C'YA BYE!

[rsm]

We have started our separation. I'm not expecting this to be easy but I have to try. We will have limited contact, mostly for the kids but the door is always open for her to contact me, i will avoid contacting her unless necessary. She seems pretty positive, and feels hopeful that things can get to a level that she can work on us. We'll see how this all ends in about 4 weeks.

[rsm]

Update:

Things have been tough. Being away from home and the kids while being so close it a weird feeling. On the other hand things with the wife seem pretty good. We talk everyday and see each other a few times a week. Lots of positive signs keep popping up but I don't want to get to excited over them. Until she tells me where she is at I am being cautious. Some of the good signs are more communication than we agreed on, not just for kid related stuff. Going the church as a family (a new thing for us) and me staying over one night in the same bed. Like I said good signs, but who knows what they mean.

[TrustInYourself]

Sweet. Enjoy those times.

[Mr. Lucky]

Update:

Things have been tough. Being away from home and the kids while being so close it a weird feeling. On the other hand things with the wife seem pretty good. We talk everyday and see each other a few times a week. Lots of positive signs keep popping up but I don't want to get to excited over them. Until she tells me where she is at I am being cautious. Some of the good signs are more communication than we agreed on, not just for kid related stuff. Going the church as a family (a new thing for us) and me staying over one night in the same bed. Like I said good signs, but who knows what they mean.

Hope it works out for you. While I appreciate your honest and blunt self-assessment about your role in the decline of your relationship, I see your wife's failure to look at herself in the same light as a huge stumbling block. Her resistance to either IC or MC or even honest discussion with you leaves her open to much harbored anger going forward. Hate to see you go through so much and yet only solve part of the puzzle...

 

Mr. Lucky

[rsm]

Mr Lucky

Funny you should say that. Tonight we got together as a family for dinner (part of the weekly plan) and she mentioned thinking about IC. Hopefully she goes that route, even though I'd like MC that would be a good start. Again more positive signs tonight but nothing solid.

[rsm]

Update

We are in the 3rd week of our “separation” but I’m not even sure if that’s what it is anymore. Even my therapist isn’t sure what this is. Things seem really positive. We have been talking every night, nothing heavy just catching up. There have been a couple stay over nights (this was never discussed pre-separation). There has been a lot of physical interaction (the good kind), we are on about the same pace as before all this drama. It’s almost as if we are dating again. The one thing missing is the verbal exchange of affection.

This whole thing has been done on her terms. I have been holding back from being too affectionate (telling her I love her, I miss her, etc) but some has slipped through the cracks. I haven’t been pushing to see her more than we agreed, The hard part is she hasn’t given me any verbal clues as to where she stands. However, when we are together there’s lot’s of physical affection, I have to initiate it but she is very much accepting of it. When we talk on the phone it’s lots of laughing and just talking. We just haven’t really dove into the issues but it’s something that has to come up soon.

I am trying not to get to hopeful because until she says we are going to make this work anything can happen. It seems like now that she knows she’s in the drivers seat she is checking to make sure I don’t revert and try to jump in and “fix” everything take over like I have in the past. It also seems like she holding back from allowing herself to slip back to her comfort zone which is exactly what she has to do if we are going to make real changes.