Giving atheism a bad name?

[D-Lish]

Not everybody shares that opinion. I happen to believe that there are very serious consequences to overzealous belief in stupid things. It affects how people think, and how they treat others. Exclusivist beliefs encourage people to isolate themselves from those who are different, and to look the other way when they are mistreated.

 

My agenda, though not as an atheist (so perhaps I'm slightly hijacking here), is for people to recognise that they have a burden of responsibility to everyone, not just those in their own country, their own tribe, their own race, their own religion, etc.

 

I would not consider it a waste at all to attempt to save people from harmful beliefs and self-destructive behaviour.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Well this is awesome! An Athiest disagreeing with an Athiest about faith. I like it though.

 

Here's my line of thinking about this- It's not my duty to intervene on a personal level with people who do not share my beliefs.

 

It's only my duty to intervene when the problem affects me or my freedom...which leads to Politics. I see an elected offical screwing with my rights as a taxpayer and I'm going t react. I listen to someone tell me I am going to Hell because I don't believe in the same thing they do- I ignore. An average Joe I barely know may have a personal opinion about god and emanate discrimination I don't agree with- but it will not hurt me.

 

I think we are talking about people with ideals and beliefs, vs systems with ideals and beliefs. A system can affect me, and I WILL fight back... a lone person cannot and does not affect me in the same way. I'll put up with a person telling me I am going to hell because I don't believe in god- but I won't put up with a system that gives me the same message.

 

I don't feel it's my personal duty to convert staunch believers in a higher power... but if they as a group start to affect my politics, I will spring into action.

[disgracian]

you want to save us from joy, peace, kindness, patience and hope, so we can have depression, hatred, unforgiveness, strife and hopeless?

I do want to save you and others like you from exactly this kind of ignorant bigotry and narcissism.

 

Cheers,

D.

[disgracian]

Well this is awesome! An Athiest disagreeing with an Athiest about faith. I like it though.

I'm not exactly an atheist though.

Here's my line of thinking about this- It's not my duty to intervene on a personal level with people who do not share my beliefs. It's only my duty to intervene when the problem affects me or my freedom...which leads to Politics.

I hear that, but at the same time I think the problem runs deeper than elected officials. I don't think we ca effect any serious change just by pressuring or lobbying politicians; the change needs to come from our collective mentality as a society and a species. Politicians, as much as we love to hate them, are just a mirror to society. They play to the majority, tell people what they want to hear, so if they disgust you then you must also be equally disgusted by who elect them in the first place.

I don't feel it's my personal duty to convert staunch believers in a higher power... but if they as a group start to affect my politics, I will spring into action.

I don't want to dissuade them of any belief in god because I think that under the right circumstances it can be a positive thing. Belief or non-belief in god really has very little to do with it. What I tend to despise most about religions in general is the amount of manmade rubbish that is piled on top of them. Jesus isn't the problem, it's the Religious Right who have somehow managed to warp reality so successfully that they have the larger portion of 300,000,000 people believing he is pro-war, pro-big business, pro-death penalty and anti-welfare. How did a nation allow itself to be so thoroughly deceived by these wolves in sheeps' clothing?

 

As I have said on numerous occasions (and mostly ignored by people here), I'm ambivalent to the idea of god in general. I only disapprove of certain gods and the rituals and idiotic beliefs built up around them. But to these people, there is no distinction between their pet god and the notions of theism, spirituality, and even morality in general. Those people are beyond hope and I am trying more and more to simply disregard them and concentrate on people who are even faintly receptive to new ideas and ways of thinking.

 

Cheers,

D.

[FleshNBones]

Not everybody shares that opinion. I happen to believe that there are very serious consequences to overzealous belief in stupid things. It affects how people think, and how they treat others. Exclusivist beliefs encourage people to isolate themselves from those who are different, and to look the other way when they are mistreated.

If I told you that I would burn down your house, would you let me in?

If I told you that I would poison your food, would you take food from me?

If I told you that I would steall all of your belongings, would you trust me your keys?

If I told you that I would do terrible things to you in your sleep, would you put me up for the night?

 

There is such a thing as keeping a safe distance especially from people who would harm you.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

One thing that really turns me off is that christians refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. What I mean by that is they like to hide behind the bible and use it as an excuse to proselytize their beliefs on others.

 

LOL I love your posts and attempts of confusion and misunderstanding and your attempt to make something of something that isn't even there. You are right, though, there are a lot of people who justify their wrongs behind religion, politics, education, might, age, etc. It is not a Christian thing, it is a human one and if I checked my records, Christians are still humans capable of failings and are flawed.

 

Do you even know what you are saying with your last sentence or trying to confuse and hide behind big words to convert others to your side? This sentence has nothing to do with your previous statement.

 

Now point out all the Christians who don't take responsibility for their actions and take count of how many things you place on the fault of others. And to give you some insight to the falsness of your words... I went to the brig and got discharged from the military for something I did wrong. I did not blame anyone else or try to rationalize it away, while I may not agree with the outcome, the fact is in the end, I was responsible for what happened to me.

 

They will never take responsibility for the persecution that they bring on themselves through their own self righteous and condescending ways.

 

LOL again, you talk with such ignorance. We are suppose to be persecuted. It is foretold in the Bible. Actually, most Christians welcome persecution because there are those like you who make the Bible's word true. It is people like you who give us more reasons to pray and people to pray for. Thank you for making our jobs that much easier Barefoot.

 

Many times they'll say "well I didn't say you are an unclean sinner on your way to hell. God said it in his word so take it up with Him." No. How about you own up to the responsibility of what you are preaching instead of hiding behind a book? You can't just make excuses and claim that you are only following orders from a book!

 

Is a mechanic hiding behind his repair manuals when he is telling someone about the problems with their car? Are teachers hiding behind their books when they are teaching? When you do what you do according to the policies and laws of your profession when you deal with others as your profession requires? How about going outside of those policies and laws? Are you making excuses if you tell someone you are doing something or not doing something according to what has been prescribed to you?

 

Yes I have every right to be concerned about what christians do with their beliefs. Many of them are not satisfied with just practicing their beliefs without using their beliefs to control the lives of others around them. Either your beliefs need to conform to reality or reality needs to conform to your beliefs.

 

Control? We can't control anything. We can only tell you what is right or wrong, why it is so. We can only tell you about an alternative to the way one lives, it is up to the individual to make the choice. Think of religion like your parents... They make rules and regulations. Not to control you, but to direct you... Now if those rules and regulations are broken, there are usually consequences. Now if a child does not wish to be punished, they will try to abide by the rules set by the parent.

 

Reality and belief can never conform. Why? Because God is not looking to save this world. He is not looking to bring t.v. to the new world. He is not looking to save tanks or skyscrapers. As a matter of fact, this flawed flesh of ours and our mindsets will be totally reconstructed into something new. To be honest and straight forward, this world and its ways are on borrowed time. So, live and laugh as you choose. Believe or disbelieve all you want, to behonest, Christians don't care about the stuff you put so much concern in. We care about the spirit that is either going to be saved or damned.

 

The God of the bible is absolutely sadistic and disgusting. He's not worth any respect or worship. The only thing this idiot is good for is to be shot. If I ever did meet this God I'd love the privilege of blowing his brains out!

 

But, you don't know God. Since you don't know or care, you will not be able to see clearly. Now if God is how you described... Explain why is it we are even more sadistic towards one another than God is to us? If God is truly such a reviled being, why is it He is still keeping someone like you here? Why is would He send His son to redeem us on to Him if He were truly that evil? You really do overestimate yourself about your capabilities don't you? Really think about how are you going to do what you think you would do with someone who is omniscientant and omnipotient. How do you plan on shotting someone who spoke the gun, gun powered, and its sciences into existance.

 

Barefoot, if your ideas, logic, and attempt to belittle that which you have no heart for was not so sad, I would fall out laughing at them and you. But, you know what, I pray for you.

 

 

DNR

[Dark-N-Romantic]

Oh, and for an atheist, you show too much care for that which you claim to not care about. You are the one who are giving atheists a bad name. Just like there are Christians who give Christianity a bad name. Just like there are some whites that gives whites bad names. Just like there are some blacks that gives blacks bad names. So, what is your point?

 

 

DNR

[almost famous]

Hey guys, you never addressed why athiests only bash Christians. They believe in God, and they believe in the savior, in their eyes he/she just hasn't yet arrived...isn't that kind of weird, I mean if you think Christianity is so weird? Why don't you guys bash Jewish people? Is it too politically incorrect to do so?

[disgracian]

If I told you that I would burn down your house, would you let me in? etc.

Way to keep proving my point.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Taramere]

I swear to God if I ever met Him I'd tell him what I tell every single evangelistic prick I come in contact with this:

 

"No thanks. I'm not interested in your crappy salvation. I prefer damnation! Now piss off! I've got to get busy living in sin!"

 

As I said before I enjoy blaspheming the Holy Spirit every chance I get.

 

I'm not quite sure what to make of this. On the one hand I think you're just trolling to amuse yourself and annoy the God Squad. On the other hand, I once had to represent a man who spoke similarly to you.

 

The first time I met him, he was assuring me that he had the holy spirit inside him (and it was true. I could smell it from 6 feet away). Next time we met, he told me he'd put me into hell with God and a team of psychiatric staff. (this was a punishment for me saying "no" when he asked whether I'd seen "it" - whatever it was - leap out of him). I said "I thought God was supposed to be in heaven" and he responded "no. Satan is in me. He rules Heaven. God's in hell and the bible is just a pack of lies."

 

It was quite a u-turn, because just a week previously he'd been waxing lyrical about God. I'm relieved that you seem more consistent in your views...though I haven't ruled out the possibility of you having at least two identities on this board. One of which might be a devout Christian.

[almost famous]

How is it a generalization? On this board there are definitely posts of angry athiests pushing their agenda to Christians as to how stupid Christians are because they believe God exists. We don't see them doing this to the Muslims and Jewish people.

 

We don't see a lot of Christians pushing any agendas on here. They are the accepting and respecting ones of other peoples' beliefs and right to have them.

 

Cheers!

 

Because, almost famous, it's a terribly stupid generalisation that isn't even remotely accurate and doesn't merit a response.

 

Cheers,

D.

[trubella]

Real atheists dont waste much time thinking about religion

 

this is kindof what i was thinking as i read this thread, im agnostic and the last thing on my mind is religion, i just dont put alot energy towards stuff like this.

[Enema]

We don't see them doing this to the Muslims and Jewish people.

 

Have you noticed many Muslims or Jewish people here?

 

They're responding to what's actually around.

 

We don't see a lot of Christians pushing any agendas on here. They are the accepting and respecting ones of other peoples' beliefs and right to have them.

 

LoL.

[almost famous]

Just thought I should point out that the section in bold is all that I actually said, the rest was added by a Loveshack moderator who doesn't seem to know where his duties extend and more importantly where they do not.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Uh, dude, I asked a question, how can a question be accurate or not? Duh.

[disgracian]

Because your question made an assumption that is not accurate. As Enema points out, the absence of a horde of Jews/Hindus/whatever pushing their beliefs on others means that not everybody is going to receive equal attention.

 

Christians try hardest of all to legislate their morality and marginalise others that they don't like, at least in the West. Often they don't seem to realise they're doing it, and tend to consider the idea of granting equal rights (rights they take for granted) to minority groups to be an assault on their way of life even if it doesn't affect them in the slightest.

 

Christians are not "bashed" because it's the politically correct thing to do, they reap the consequences of their own actions by pushing so hard on secular society in the first place.

 

That said, I've seen all sorts of beliefs attacked and mocked here and elsewhere. I personally think that the Jewish beliefs are even more absurd and awful, and I'll gladly explain why in great detail to anyone who is interested. That said, there's not so much of an audience here for it, and if I was to bring it up unprovoked I'd probably get mobbed by accusations of anti-Semitism.

 

Pretty much all of the "bashing" (both of Christians and by them) is a response to the last thing somebody else said. It is in no way a result of special prejudice as you seem to suggest.

 

Cheers,

D.

[almost famous]

Hey Enema...do you know how many Muslims or Jewish people there are here? Have YOU asked anyone?

Just making a valid point here, people.

[Enema]

Why would I ask? I don't care.

 

I respond to what other people post. If a Jew or Muslim were to post, I would respond just as readily as to a Christian.

 

I posted a few times in a thread about Buddhism in the recent past too. Your suggestion that we're targeting Christians has zero merit.

[barefoot880]

Several problems to point out:

 

There are over 100 denominations in christianity. They all claim that the bible is the final authority for establishing truth. They all claim that they have the correct interpretation of the bible and that all the other denominations are wrong.

 

So how in the world do christians expect to convert people like me to their way of thinking when they can't even agree on what is required to get to heaven?

 

Some denominations tell you that you gotta be water baptized. Some tell you that you gotta speak in tongues. Some tell you that all you have to do is believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose again. Some tell you that you have to stop drinking and stop cursing. Some are more legalistic telling you that you can't have girlfriends.

 

So why don't christians settle their differences within their religion first before trying to convert the rest of the world? If you all can't even agree on what is required to go to heaven then why in the hell are you trying to sell your beliefs to the rest of the world?

 

There is something wrong with this picture. Even if you can prove that the bible is 100% true you cannot prove that your interpretation of the bible is accurate. There are many sincere christians from many different denominations who have different ways of understanding the scriptures.

 

Furthermore muslims and buddists and hindus and yes even atheists and satanists are just as dedicated to their doctrinal beliefs as christians are. So why do you christians insist that your understanding of God is right and everyone else's is wrong? Why should I just take your word for it?

 

I don't have any respect for pastors because most of them come across as very arrogant in the way they deliver their sermons. They expect me to take their sermon as gospel truth.

 

Also the analogy of God using hell to punish his children just like earthly parents punish their kids when they disobey is a very poor analogy. Being disciplined for doing wrong and being set on fire for all eternity are 2 different things. To set someone on fire for all eternity is pointless. It benefits nobody. Why would it benefit God?

 

Also to those christians here who profess to believe in an eternal hell. If you really believed what you were preaching then you would be spending every waking minute of your day banging on doors and begging people to accept Christ. You either really don't believe that anyone is going to burn in hell or you don't care who goes there.

 

If you say you believe in eternal hell then how in the world can you enjoy life? How in the world can you go to work everyday like the rest of us just to buy better cars and houses? Why go to college? How in the world can you enjoy a football game or a vacation if you really believe that part of mankind is going to burn in hell forever?

 

Or do you just not care? You only care that your own bacon is saved from hell and that's all that matters to you. That means heaven is filled with self centered self righteous people who only care about their own salvation.

 

What does that say about your religion? What does that say about your heaven? Why would I want to be in that phony heaven? It will be worse than hell if any of my loved ones isn't there with me but I'm stuck with a bunch of selfish christians!

 

Most christians who say they believe in hell live no differently than the world. They spend most of their waking hours at a secular job like everyone else and pursuing the things of this life. I.E. marriage, children, college, etc. What for? these things are not important if you have souls in danger of hellfire to minister to. Why do you think you are entitled to enjoy life while the rest of the world goes to hell?

 

Let's be honest with ourselves. The majority of people that have ever lived or will ever live have NOT and will NOT convert to christianity during their lifetime. Most of these people are good, decent, law abiding citizens, faithful to their spouses, pay their bills, etc.

 

Some of these people have served in the military and given their lives in world war I and world war II.

 

I'm sure there are many honorable military men who have rejected the bible and christianity. Yes you can reject the bible altogether and still be a good solider in the military.

 

My dad is one of them. He served in the marine corps for 30 years. He's dependable, hard working, mission focused but he wants nothing to do with the bible or church or the christian God. He always does his best to help other people out when they need it.

 

According to christian doctrine these pepole are burning in hell for not believing the correct things about Jesus. My dad is actually doing his part to make this world a better place and christians say that it doesn't matter.

 

Well I say it does matter. My dad is a good example of a person who does not need the bible or religion or a relationship with God to be a productive and positive asset to society. He abides by the philosophy of treating others the way you would like to be treated.

 

I can burn my bible and still abide by the golden rule of doing unto others as I would have others do unto me. I don't need the bible to teach me how to treat my fellow man.

 

If this is true then the heaven that exists for the frozen chosen that make it will be worse than hell. So I would rather go to hell and be with my unconverted family members and friends than to suffer in heaven with the knowledge that they won't be there with me. Heaven will be worse than hell!

[Dark-N-Romantic]

So basically what you are saying is Christians are damned for spreading the gospel to those who don't know it and damned for not pursueing the ones who refuse to believe or listen because their minds are already made up. Boy am I glad you aren't God. You can't win for losing with you. Talk about God to you and get treated like crap, don't talk about God with you get treated like crap. Sounds like Chrisitians aren't the only cofused group:D.

 

You just may get your wish about where you spend eternity.

 

LOL! That's a good one Bent. I have learned from people like these...

 

1. They are not worth the time to even take seriously.

2. They don't know or truly understand (even those who claim they were once Christian or raised by Christians) or can accept that which is not physical or that demands them to be more than just human.

3. They are blinded and fooled by the Devil and are his tools.

4. They fail to realize they are the ones who keeps us in business.

5. Religion to them may be like politics or child raring or even sports to us. They can't accept because they can't or don't want to believe.

6. We should accept all who bash us as blessings from God. They improve our knowledge, understanding, and wisdom of God, His ways, His powers, and the backing up of everything that has been written in the Bible.

7. We have to have enemies in order to have a battle and a battle to have a victory.

8. Their jokes and attempts to shake us are laughable and only makes them look like clowns.

9. Their ignorance well be paid in full and their is nothing we can do to change that.

10. Only few are chosen, I am glad I am one of the chosen, and just as long as I do what God tells me, they can't take away the greatest rewards that are not based on this dying world.

11. And if you noticed from my long response to another post, no one tried to object. Why? Because, they have no objection to it. There is nothing that the tools of the Devil can do to overturn God's word.

 

 

DNR

[lovestruck818]

Lately I have run into a few condescending atheists who have told me that I'm damaging the atheist cause and that I'm not contributing by bashing christianity. I think these condescending atheists are traitors for supporting christian politicans.

 

First of all I'm not trying to convert anyone to anything. I am an agnostic. That simply means I don't know. I don't care what anyone believes. I'm not interested in arguing over whether God exists or not. I don't care. Even if I found positive proof that the God of the bible was real I still would have nothing to do with Him.

 

The God of the bible is a total jackass especially in the old testament. If He was real I'd probably punch His lights out. Christians ask me "well what if you find out you are wrong after you die." Well I guess I'm screwed then aren't I?

 

Everybody takes risks in life. If for some reason christians are right and I'm standing before a holy God I would hope He would give me a few minutes to say a few final words before an angel throws me into the lake of fire. That's what our earthly judges do in the court room. They give the defendant a chance to say a few words before the bailiff escorts them off to jail.

 

I'd probably ask God what in the world He was thinking to create a universe like this when He knew ahead of time that the majority of His creation would burn in hell forever? I'd ask him what kind of a psychopath he thinks he is. I would tell him how irresponsible he is and how he has no excuse to let our world get in the condition it is in when he knew ahead of time how it would turn out. I'd ask him why he allows his followers to misrepresent him with self righteousness and condescending attitudes.

 

Why not mouth off to God in His court room if He gives me the chance? According to christian theology it will be too late for me to escape the sentence of eternal hell even if I was very cooperative and civil and polite with God at the judgment. I would be like a death row inmate who might as well try to hurt all the inmates and officers as I can while I'm waiting to be executed. Why not? cooperating won't change my death sentence. What would I have to lose. If I'm going to hell then why go there with a bang?

 

So what do I have to lose by cussing him out and telling him how much of a jerk I think he is? Unless I'm missing something here. Is my punishment in hell going to be more severe if I'm cursing God at the white throne judgment than if I cooperated and said I was sorry?

 

So at this point I don't care if God exists or not. I don't have respect for him or his followers. I'm practically embarassed to have been created by a psychopathic deity. The God of the bible is not much of an animal lover. He destroys innocent animals during the flood. Nobody will ever hear me bragging about God or giving thanks to Him.

 

I don't have any respect for anyone who calls me unclean and tells me that I need to get saved. It ought to be prosecuted as a hate crime to go around telling people that they're going to burn in hell for eternity.

 

I'm doing everything I can in my power to take the 10 commandments off of the supreme court and every court room wall in america. I want all religious materials out of public life. Out of the government. Out of the law and especially out of public schools.

 

But one can be an athiest and not bash Christianity- or any religion at all. Furthermore, someone can be a certain religion and not believe in a god or even practice that religion.

 

Example- me- I am an athiest. I do not believe in God. My mom is catholic, my dad is jewish. I don't practice either one. I don't care to learn what they are about. I celebrate holidays, I identify myself as both a jew and a christian...but I don't believe in god.

 

Is it wrong to consider myself an Athiest? I don't think athiests are really anti-religion, I just think they don't practice it or believe in it, god, or it's teachings. Maybe they care, maybe they don't. That's my opinion anyway.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

But one can be an athiest and not bash Christianity- or any religion at all. Furthermore, someone can be a certain religion and not believe in a god or even practice that religion.

 

Example- me- I am an athiest. I do not believe in God. My mom is catholic, my dad is jewish. I don't practice either one. I don't care to learn what they are about. I celebrate holidays, I identify myself as both a jew and a christian...but I don't believe in god.

 

Is it wrong to consider myself an Athiest? I don't think athiests are really anti-religion, I just think they don't practice it or believe in it, god, or it's teachings. Maybe they care, maybe they don't. That's my opinion anyway.

 

Hey Love. Granted one can call themselves whatever they want, but what makes them so is measured by certain guidelines. In short, one can claim to be Christian all they want, but what are their actions saying? What is their proof? And in the end it will be futile. Jesus knows his and even the wolves-in-sheep's-clothing will be and placed in their rightful place.

 

Now my ultimate question would be then, why call yourself something and not be it? What good would it do for me to go around calling myself a cop, not doing what all is required to be a cop and get arrested for impersonation of one? Would it not be easier for me to call myself a cop by being a cop?

 

 

DNR

[lovestruck818]

Hey Love. Granted one can call themselves whatever they want, but what makes them so is measured by certain guidelines. In short, one can claim to be Christian all they want, but what are their actions saying? What is their proof? And in the end it will be futile. Jesus knows his and even the wolves-in-sheep's-clothing will be and placed in their rightful place.

 

Now my ultimate question would be then, why call yourself something and not be it? What good would it do for me to go around calling myself a cop, not doing what all is required to be a cop and get arrested for impersonation of one? Would it not be easier for me to call myself a cop by being a cop?

 

 

DNR

 

It doesn't matter if I practice it or not- I am jewish & christian b/c my parents are- whether I want to be it or not- and whether I like it or not. I am not forced to practice or believe, but I am those religions b/c I've inherited them from my parents.

[Moose]

Forget about denominations for one minute...

 

The Bible is clear as a bell.....you can't get to heaven to be with God without Christ. Simple as that. If you put your trust in Jesus, believe that He died to pay for our sins, and rose again on the third day....that's all it takes.

 

The Holy Spirit is now indwelled with you, when you read Scripture, you'll understand it, or at least you'll be able to get the just of it, then you'll hunger to dig deeper....

 

It doesn't matter what denomination you are, the message is the same. Scripture is also clear about the points you brought up barefoot, you just have to read it for all it's worth....and keep everything within its context, you don't have to be saved to read literature.....

[Moose]

but I am those religions b/c I've inherited them from my parents.

Common misconception. That's just like claiming to be a Christian because you were born in America....doesn't fly....

 

How do you know what religion you are? You study, study, study and then when your done, you study even more....if you seek diligently enough, the Truth will come to you on Its own....

[lovestruck818]

Common misconception. That's just like claiming to be a Christian because you were born in America....doesn't fly....

 

How do you know what religion you are? You study, study, study and then when your done, you study even more....if you seek diligently enough, the Truth will come to you on Its own....

 

that makes no sense...there are jews born here, muslims, taoists, shintoists...yes, this predominately a christian country, but that's not the only religion that's here. We all originated in israel if you want to get techical anyway...

[Moose]

You aren't, "born" into any religion. You are a unique individual, with your own mind, heart and soul. Your life's experience and knowledge ultimately dictates which, "religion" you feel led to follow....