ONE explanation for a sexless relationship

[Rorocher]

What if it's you, not him, who has changed? Your post does not describe any change in his lovemaking. It's not as if during courtship and the early years of marriage he was an alpha-male in bed and then, all of a sudden, went soft, beta and subby.

 

I suspect it was you who changed. Your expectations shifted, and his perceived softness increasingly exasperated and irritated you.Perhaps you simply wanted greater sexual variety, and are using his alleged lovemaking deficiencies as a license to try new models.

 

It's not only behavior that changes during a relationship, expectations can change, too. I just hope you didn't humiliate him.

 

Lots of good insight, I don't think either one of us changed, I think we both go to know each other better and realized that we weren't well suited. When we first met, it wasn't like the sex was particular hot, it was ok but we were also caught up in the whirlwind of newness so a lot of things went unnoticed. I enjoyed the fact that he was a nice guy and treated me well, I was in no way looking for a controlling chauvinist. But then again, there is such a thing as being too nice. He acted as if the sun rose and set at my command. Everything was "yes", "ok", "whatever you want", "what do you want to do", clinging to me for dear life like a puppy dog. Come on, that routine would get old for anyone quick. I didn't want or need to be worshipped, I'm a flawed human being who wanted to be treated like I'm normal. A lot had to do with his low self esteem too. Thinking he had to be a doormat just to keep a woman. And the constant crying jags over any perceived slight. We would have a minor argument and here comes the waterworks, from a 30 year old man? Oy!, that was too much for me. He wasn't depressed as he just had some growing up to do.

 

I'm not saying blame should be assigned to a sexless relationship as some may think. I'm saying instead of writing it off as "I just don't feel sexual anymore", both parties should do some soul searching and find out why. We are sexual social beings, hormones don't just shut off completely out of the blue.

[Mustang Sally]

Grogster (and any others) -

 

I think what Ror is trying to represent (....I'm going out on a limb here, so don't cut me off....) is that many (most?) women do want a man to be a man - in some of the most traditional senses - in a relationship.

 

I don't know if this is culturally programmed, or something deeper (even hippocampal?) ingrained in us as male v. female...but I agree that too much Mr. Nice Guy is not a good thing.

 

You know what I mean?

It's certainly a fine line to walk between being definitively masculine (and therefore irresistably attractive to the feminine, because we crave certain things about men and their masculinity), yet still a human capable of sensitivity and deep emotional expression (according to what Hollywood and cultural gender stereotyping would have us believe). I think women have it easier in this regard, anyway. JMO.

[carhill]

Incompatibility. If *both* parties can't bend enough to bridge the gap, then the R/M needs to end and both parties need to find more compatible partners.

 

I'm very emotionally sensitive and I've never cried in front of a woman. I do it alone. The OP is right. A man needs to show his woman that she can trust him and count on him to be there and strong for her. He can be weak on his own time. It's OK to express vulnerabilities, but refrain from emoting them. A woman (I should say most women) has amazing capacity to empathize and feel her man's vulnerabilities without him acting them out.

 

The gist of why we (my wife and I) don't have relations is because she lacks that ability with me and I can't feel intimate with someone who is distant from me emotionally. I've tried to bridge that gap, but, apparently like the OP, the gap may be too wide. In our case, a less emotional man (who doesn't care whether his wife connects with him emotionally, but rather just wants sex and companionship), would be a more compatible partner. My wife chose wrong

[grogster]

Lots of good insight, I don't think either one of us changed, I think we both go to know each other better and realized that we weren't well suited. When we first met, it wasn't like the sex was particular hot, it was ok but we were also caught up in the whirlwind of newness so a lot of things went unnoticed. I enjoyed the fact that he was a nice guy and treated me well, I was in no way looking for a controlling chauvinist. But then again, there is such a thing as being too nice. He acted as if the sun rose and set at my command. Everything was "yes", "ok", "whatever you want", "what do you want to do", clinging to me for dear life like a puppy dog. Come on, that routine would get old for anyone quick. I didn't want or need to be worshipped, I'm a flawed human being who wanted to be treated like I'm normal. A lot had to do with his low self esteem too. Thinking he had to be a doormat just to keep a woman. And the constant crying jags over any perceived slight. We would have a minor argument and here comes the waterworks, from a 30 year old man? Oy!, that was too much for me. He wasn't depressed as he just had some growing up to do.

 

I'm not saying blame should be assigned to a sexless relationship as some may think. I'm saying instead of writing it off as "I just don't feel sexual anymore", both parties should do some soul searching and find out why. We are sexual social beings, hormones don't just shut off completely out of the blue.

 

I understand exactly what you and Mustang are saying. Weeping doormats are no fun let alone sexually exciting.

 

On the other side, I just ended a very, very fine sexual relationship with a woman who was a true sexual submissive. The lady craved male sexual dominance. Alas, we had other (non-sexual) issues that could not be resolved. We had fun, though. (I'm not suggesting that you're a submissive, I'm simply observing that when there's a true meshing of erotic personalities, the Gods smile upon us.).

 

Good luck in your search for more alpha guys, Rorocher.

[Arise_Serpentor]

How would you solve it? Its not so simple, especially if you're married. Talking only results in very short bursts of action. Once things go back to status quo then you're left feeling even more dissatisfied, and also resentful that the other person stopped attempting to work on it. Leaving the relationship is a quick fix, but a permenant one. Its like contemplating suicide. Effective, yet drastic. Not something you jump to when there's still the smallest wee little glimmer of hope things could change.

 

And how do you address a problem you don't understand? When I was faced with this issue, I didn't understand what the problem was. Its not as if there was a fixed problem and therefore solution B would work best. It was a hazy cloud of issues that compounded over time to create the problem. Not one thing, or even a couple of things.

 

Nothing you mentioned involved getting some professional counseling! This is the modern day! How about a relationship workshop?! Obviously if the communication lines are broken, you can't solve it internally!!! there are many places to get help! but people would rather whine and complain and piss and moan on here than take REAL action!

You got a hazy cloud! and now you don't! you REALIZE it! not taking action you are just stewing and festering! Stew and fester should have no place in your life! If you are not going to do something about it, don't complain about it! live with it! marriage counselers are everywhere! And one may be bad, one may be good! just TRYING this will show your spouse its time to face the music than pretending it doesn't exist!

[Mr. Lucky]

Nothing you mentioned involved getting some professional counseling! This is the modern day! How about a relationship workshop?! Obviously if the communication lines are broken, you can't solve it internally!!! there are many places to get help! but people would rather whine and complain and piss and moan on here than take REAL action!

You got a hazy cloud! and now you don't! you REALIZE it! not taking action you are just stewing and festering! Stew and fester should have no place in your life! If you are not going to do something about it, don't complain about it! live with it! marriage counselers are everywhere! And one may be bad, one may be good! just TRYING this will show your spouse its time to face the music than pretending it doesn't exist!

You have a hyperactive "!" key. This is a discussion board. All of that "whine and complain and piss and moan" is just people expressing their thoughts, fears, hopes and ideas. Your advice to just "take action" is about as effective as telling an alcoholic to just quit drinking...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Arise_Serpentor]

You have a hyperactive "!" key. This is a discussion board. All of that "whine and complain and piss and moan" is just people expressing their thoughts, fears, hopes and ideas. Your advice to just "take action" is about as effective as telling an alcoholic to just quit drinking...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Funny!!! You read what you want to! I would tell an alcoholic to get HELP! Like, treatment! If you were predict i would tell a drunk to quit drinking, then i would be telling these sexless, loveless marriages to start loving and having sex, and i havent said that, have i?!?! Sounds like i'm hitting a personal nerve of yours, hmmm?!? !!!!!!!!!

[soda]

I don't claim to know it all, this is just from my point of view. I have been in a relationship where sex practically dropped off after some time. Because I, as the woman, was just no longer in the mood.

 

He pushed and prodded and begged, but my libido was just shot. It wasn't because I didn't have the desire because obviously, after we broke up, I was horny again. It was because my desire FOR HIM was no longer there. To his credit, he was a sweet, kind, gentleman but to his discredit, he was too clingy, too childish and too imature. He acted like he was my little puppy dog, non-assertive, no backbone and extremely needy. Sex, when we were having it, was ordinary and unexciting, even our make-out sessions were not arousing in anyway due to his lack of experience. I was expected to take charge and essentially be the "man" in the relationship. I'm a woman, I had no idea how to wear the pants.

 

My loss of respect for him directly correlated to my loss of libido. I loved him, don't get me wrong and he didn't exactly do anything wrong, he just didn't know how to be a man. And my hormones only responded to a man not a little boy.

 

Little moral of the story, especially for women, is instead of just saying "I don't feel like sex anymore". Think deep and find out why, what changed, what is HE doing that no longer lights your fire?. What should he stop or start doing to rekindle the flame?. Think back to when the thought of him got you all hot and bothered. Besides time, what has changed from then till now?

 

Maybe he acted this way because he wasn't getting his needs met. Excuse me while I make a huge generalization here. Women quickly notice when the emotional connection in the relationship is gone, but men tend to notice the relationship is out of whack when the sex goes away.

 

So, if your man stopped giving any emotional connection, how would you have reacted? You would have done one of two things: 1) You would have tried too hard to get the emotional connection back and come across as needy, or 2) You would have become cold and frosty toward him.

 

The man, on the other hand, also has two choices when the sex disappears in the relationship. He can 1) lose confidence and begin trying too hard to achieve what he's missing, or 2) find the sex elsewhere.

 

If he's a good guy, he won't cheat, but his confidence is shot. It becomes hard for him to be a "man."

 

The bigger issue that I see here is that you've blathered on about your needs and desires, but you never really mentioned any effort on YOUR part to figure out HIS needs. Did you ever communicate any of this to him so he had a fighting chance? Or did you just spend your time fretting about what YOU were unhappy about?

 

It was about YOUR dissatisfaction, how YOU responded, YOUR libido, and how you may have been stretched outside of YOUR comfort zone. The work is all left for HIM.

 

The problem wasn't the sex.

[soda]

You have a hyperactive "!" key. This is a discussion board. All of that "whine and complain and piss and moan" is just people expressing their thoughts, fears, hopes and ideas. Your advice to just "take action" is about as effective as telling an alcoholic to just quit drinking...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Um, well, he didn't. He said the same thing that one would encourage an alcoholic to do...seek professional help.

 

Mr. Lucky, you seem to be a smart guy, but you also seem to misinterprete a lot of posts and argue with people. A difference in ideas is ok. This is a forum so we can extract differing opinions and experiences. I think you have some really great thinking, but you tend to lose me with your self-righteousness.

 

I'll admit that I'm wrong as much as I am right. It happens, whatever. Consider turning the dial down a notch.

[stoopid_guy]

You have a hyperactive "!" key. This is a discussion board. All of that "whine and complain and piss and moan" is just people expressing their thoughts, fears, hopes and ideas. Your advice to just "take action" is about as effective as telling an alcoholic to just quit drinking...

 

Mr. Lucky

I always just assumed the period on Arise's

keyboard was broken.

[Arise_Serpentor]

I always just assumed the period on Arise's

keyboard was broken.

 

No way man! I just type how I feel!!! That's just my style!!

And Soda, nice post!!!

[Mr. Lucky]

Um, well, he didn't. He said the same thing that one would encourage an alcoholic to do...seek professional help.

 

Mr. Lucky, you seem to be a smart guy, but you also seem to misinterprete a lot of posts and argue with people. A difference in ideas is ok. This is a forum so we can extract differing opinions and experiences. I think you have some really great thinking, but you tend to lose me with your self-righteousness.

 

I'll admit that I'm wrong as much as I am right. It happens, whatever. Consider turning the dial down a notch.

Your point is well taken. I guess I was simply reacting to some of the painful and difficult issues people work thru here being characterized as "whine and complain and piss and moan"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Walk]

You got a hazy cloud! and now you don't! you REALIZE it! not taking action you are just stewing and festering! Stew and fester should have no place in your life! If you are not going to do something about it, don't complain about it! live with it! marriage counselers are everywhere! And one may be bad, one may be good! just TRYING this will show your spouse its time to face the music than pretending it doesn't exist!

 

I personally did try counseling with the exH. It was a bunch of talking, more talking..... more talking....

 

After my medical coverage ran out of covered sessions, and my exH blew threw all the money I had saved up, we stopped going. Not before the counselor told us that he couldn't help us though. Which meant I would have had to find a new counselor and start all over again...

 

The whole ordeal seemed like a lame excuse to allow exH to whine and complain about his childhood. I always talked with my exH about the issues I had in the relationship. He'd muddle it up. i.e. I'd tell him I didn't understand why he drained both bank accounts to pay bills and no bills were paid. He'd tell me he paid the bills, and go on for 2.5 hours about how I had it all wrong and I didn't know what I was talking about until he finally confused me so much that I gave up in frustration. Yet we still hadn't paid the bills.

 

Trust me... I tried everything to clear up our issues. The only thing that worked was leaving. Up until that point though, I had to try everything (mostly talking about it) until I realized that leaving was all that was left to do. Which meant I did a great deal of talking (whining, crying, pleading, begging). None of which is really an action. We talked to a counselor who mediated our talking. I talked to my partner. I talked and talked and talked... and all that talking is still not taking action. So what action should've been taken? That's what I'm not understanding.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I enjoyed the fact that he was a nice guy and treated me well, I was in no way looking for a controlling chauvinist. But then again, there is such a thing as being too nice. He acted as if the sun rose and set at my command.

 

I'm not saying blame should be assigned to a sexless relationship as some may think. I'm saying instead of writing it off as "I just don't feel sexual anymore", both parties should do some soul searching and find out why. We are sexual social beings, hormones don't just shut off completely out of the blue.

 

I read your opening post. Your marriage became sexless because your not very good as a wife. Overall, if you let your marriage become sexless for any reason beyond a major medical issue, then your an abject failure as a mate.

 

I've been there I know how this works. My ex would have described me in a similar way. Why? Because she doesn't get it. She is too self absorbed to understand other people.

 

I think what Ror is trying to represent (....I'm going out on a limb here, so don't cut me off....) is that many (most?) women do want a man to be a man - in some of the most traditional senses - in a relationship.

 

And men want women to be and act like women... So, get cooking.

 

Seriously, just as men come in all kinds of different physical packages... so also do they come in mental/emotional packages. This isn't a shopping trip. You don't return it 6 years later because you have some buyers remorse. Nor do you abuse it and run it into the ground because it no longer fits your needs.

 

I'm not really talking to you here MS, just in general.

[taylor]

Grogster (and any others) -

 

I think what Ror is trying to represent (....I'm going out on a limb here, so don't cut me off....) is that many (most?) women do want a man to be a man - in some of the most traditional senses - in a relationship.

 

I don't know if this is culturally programmed, or something deeper (even hippocampal?) ingrained in us as male v. female...but I agree that too much Mr. Nice Guy is not a good thing.

 

You know what I mean?

It's certainly a fine line to walk between being definitively masculine (and therefore irresistably attractive to the feminine, because we crave certain things about men and their masculinity), yet still a human capable of sensitivity and deep emotional expression (according to what Hollywood and cultural gender stereotyping would have us believe). I think women have it easier in this regard, anyway. JMO.

 

 

 

I feel for the guys, too. Women put men in a tough spot. We want them to be confident, decisive, strong, rugged, take charge kind of men. We find that so irresistable. It makes us want them. So...

 

We marry them. Then what do we do? We make them pick out china patterns, bake brownies, fold baby clothes, go shopping, decorate the house, etch. We turn them into women!!!

 

Then we sit back and wonder why we are no longer sexually attracted to them. We wonder what happened to that hot stud we used to have tons of sex with all day (OP's words)

 

For the OP, your husband sounds shallow and immature. He needs to grow up. He also needs an anger management class.

 

His neediness and clingy-ness are definitely unappealing qualities. No man or woman would see these qualities as sexual turn-ons.

 

Was he this needy before you married? If not, maybe he feels he is going to lose you so he is tightening the hold...just a thought.

 

Also, one more thought. Some people laugh when they feel nervous or uptight. Could he be feeling this way in the bedroom?

[blueeyedgurl]

I feel the same way with my husband now! And we've only been married for two months! Everyone I talk to thinks he's gay...glad I'm not the only one in this situation...I WANT OUT!

[luvstarved]

I have felt this way about SOs and fear that now my H feels this way about me.

 

It's a lot easier to be the feeler than to be the feelee.

[stoopid_guy]

I feel for the guys, too. Women put men in a tough spot. We want them to be confident, decisive, strong, rugged, take charge kind of men. We find that so irresistable. It makes us want them. So...

 

We marry them. Then what do we do? We make them pick out china patterns, bake brownies, fold baby clothes, go shopping, decorate the house, etch. We turn them into women!!!

In my case, when I met my wife we were both stationed in Athens. From there I travelled all over the Middle East (I spent six weeks in Baghdad between our second and third dates.)

In short, few would have considered my life dull.

 

Then, I become a husband and a father, people depend on me, I take a much more stationary position and stop taking the risks I did when I was single. (This was by mutual agreement with her.) I didn't become a "woman," but I did become less interesting.

 

I've got to bring this up with her, and will let you know what comes up. Our lack of intimacy is beyond repair, but I am curious as to why it happened.

[luvstarved]

I've got to bring this up with her, and will let you know what comes up. Our lack of intimacy is beyond repair, but I am curious as to why it happened.

 

Both feet now in the "bemused detachment" phase of your M, stoopid???

[carhill]

Soon to be followed by the despair and self-mutilation phase

 

stoopid_guy, save yourself the pain. The why is a forever moving target. Acceptance...

[stoopid_guy]

Both feet now in the "bemused detachment" phase of your M, stoopid???

 

Soon to be followed by the despair and self-mutilation phase

 

stoopid_guy, save yourself the pain. The why is a forever moving target. Acceptance...

Actually "bemused detachment" is a great way to put it, but the "despair and self-mutilation" came before that. I tried way too hard and way too long with zero

results.

 

I actually like my wife as a friend now that the "despair" phase has passed.

[luvstarved]

Actually "bemused detachment" is a great way to put it, but the "despair and self-mutilation" came before that. I tried way too hard and way too long with zero

results.

 

I actually like my wife as a friend now that the "despair" phase has passed.

 

It is quite easy to like people from whom you are "bemusedly detached". I wonder if she appreciates your generosity in having graduated to the "FWS" (friends with secrets) frame of mind.

 

Does the OW like your W too?? OOOOOHHHHH SA-WEEEEET!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You should have broken your vows years ago! Who knew you could have it all????

 

I will opine that the despair phase has not passed...more likely the medicine is effective for now and has sent it into remission...

[stoopid_guy]

It is quite easy to like people from whom you are "bemusedly detached". I wonder if she appreciates your generosity in having graduated to the "FWS" (friends with secrets) frame of mind.

She does appreciate the FWOB (Friends With Out Benifits) relationship. It's taken a lot of stress off both of us.

Does the OW like your W too?? OOOOOHHHHH SA-WEEEEET!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You should have broken your vows years ago! Who knew you could have it all????

The wife and OW have never met. I suspect they'd get along though. I might also get along with the OW's hubby. (This is all assuming the relationship stays discreet.)

 

Years ago? Actually, it took me a few years of no intimacy to learn I could want another woman. I think it happened about right.

 

(I know you were being sarcastic with that. but since you did ask...)

I will opine that the despair phase has not passed...more likely the medicine is effective for now and has sent it into remission...

Perhaps, only time will tell. No doubt there's frustration and challenge to come, but I seriously doubt it will be as bad as when I realized the relationship with my wife was dead. That put me into a "funk" for several years. I was simply numb, I gave up hope. The first EA gave that hope back.

[Mr. Lucky]

She does appreciate the FWOB (Friends With Out Benifits) relationship. It's taken a lot of stress off both of us.

 

Actually, it took me a few years of no intimacy to learn I could want another woman. I think it happened about right.

 

Perhaps, only time will tell. No doubt there's frustration and challenge to come, but I seriously doubt it will be as bad as when I realized the relationship with my wife was dead. That put me into a "funk" for several years. I was simply numb, I gave up hope. The first EA gave that hope back.

Scrivdog, is that you :confused: ???

 

Seriously stoopid, you should look up his threads and read how his similar situation played out. You might find it interesting...

 

Mr. Lucky

[angryyoungman70]

No doubt there's frustration and challenge to come, but I seriously doubt it will be as bad as when I realized the relationship with my wife was dead. That put me into a "funk" for several years. I was simply numb, I gave up hope.

 

I share your sentiment Stoopidguy. That is where I was for many years. Felling numb, detached, and devoid of hope. Then, 3 years ago I was sent to work an exhibitor's show, where I befriended a georgeous woman who was the only other exhibitor, and subsequently the only person to talk to during conference presentations.

 

Over the next 3 days, we chatted continuously, had dinner, drinks, ect, but nothing physical transpired. This was the beginning of a 6 month long-distance EA. She lives in England, and I in Canada. For the forst time in over a decade, I felt alive again and had hope. Once my W discovered, and I repented to her, the crash was as abyssimal as it could get.

 

One thing that I have discovered as a "stop-gap" solution to the bleak existance that is my marriage, is anti-depressants.