Why does she keep snooping??? Porn and other woman

[Mr. Lucky]

you can say it wouldn't bother you, but think about coming home to your wife/gf with her online looking at guys ... clicking from one pic to another.

Any guy who spends his time "clicking from one pic to another" when his wife comes home is a chump. His wife/gf would fit the same description should she do the same thing.

 

Are you suggesting that's what most men do ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[morelaugh]

I don't think my ex's viewpoints were rare or unusual, what was rare was that he openly and boldly came right out and said things that a lot of guys think but would never dare to say.

I can’t think of one thing everyone here agrees on, except that your H is a stupid ass.

 

Doesn’t that tell you anything?

 

Even if the whole thing about the plot to get out is true (which I very much doubt), that would still make him incredibly cruel.

 

Not many people are like that (men OR women).

 

 

soserious, please don’t take this the wrong way.

I don’t think you are a mean person, I love your wit and I sincerely wish the phase you’re going through doesn’t take too long.

[morelaugh]

So true, morelaugh. We create our own reality. The enemy is this case is a perceived enemy as you have said.

 

It is easier to lie to ourselves than anyone else, as I have found throuh my own instance. My argument is that what we perceive as the enemy is the problem.

 

Is porn the true enemy? Or is a low self esteem and insecurity on our own parts the enemy?

 

Porn will always be there. If you try to wage war against the porn industry- and even succeed by bringing it down- will that have won the war? Will that solve or have prevented the problems that Jersie or "notsoserious"(as we now know her) encountered? They would have merely manifested themselves in someother form.

 

Miscommunication, lack of understanding, and insecurity are the root of the problem. NOT PORN. It probably doesn't help some of the extreme cases. But it is NOT THE ROOT, and not the TRUE ENEMY.

Perhaps you are right, stone.

In fact, you’re probably right.

But it is not about the probability or about who is right or who is wrong.

There is no absolute truth when it comes to human relationships.

---

I don’t know how other marriages function, but in ours we support each other no matter what.

 

We were both smokers and at some stage we both decided to quit. It took me about 5 months. It took him 5 years. I supported him wholeheartedly the whole time.

 

I did’t walk around acting all superior telling him that it was his problem, or his weakness, or that I didn’t have to suffer because of it. The fact is it WAS his vice, HIS weakness and HIS problem, but I was on his side all the time. His issue was my issue.

 

My point is, it DOESN’T MATTER whose problem it is. You are there to help each other. You are on the same side. And if that means you need to stop watching porn or drinking milk or buying shoes .... that’s what you do.

 

You do what helps; you don’t play saint and shift blame.

 

I will never understand people who defend porn like their life depends on it. Porn, milk, or shoes... it all fades compared to the person you love (or at least I think it should). If it is so unimportant (as most claim) they should be able to drop it without a second thought.

 

Looking back, the single most important thing my H said when I told him about my problem (which wasn’t even porn initially) was: ‘I’ll stop watching porn. You are so much more important, it’s not even comparable. I don’t care if I don’t see porn ever again’.

 

I know I will be flamed for this, but I believe that if you love someone - you don’t continue to do something, so unimportant to you, that you know hurts them.

Porn or shoes.

Men or women.

[morelaugh]

Real women, good women, women worthy of our affection already know that. They don't have to shut up because they're watching it with us instead of shrilly whining.

...

, but most men do not want to be anywhere near a woman with your attitudes, that much is certainly true.[/quote]

 

You know, I find your post pretty offensive.

 

There are so many people with different attitudes and lifestyles and some of them will match JS’s.

 

I am also certain that JS wouldn’t want to be with a man with your attitudes, either, so it all works out pretty well at the end, doesn’t it?

 

If a woman doesn’t like porn that doesn’t make her a bad woman. That doesn’t mean she will be sad and alone for the rest of her life.

 

Judging a person solely by their attitude towards porn is a seriously flawed approach.

[Mr. Lucky]

We were both smokers and at some stage we both decided to quit. It took me about 5 months. It took him 5 years. I supported him wholeheartedly the whole time.

I know I will be flamed for this, but I believe that if you love someone - you don’t continue to do something, so unimportant to you, that you know hurts them.

Porn or shoes.

Men or women.

Not trying to flame you at all morelaugh, just trying to understand . To me, there is some contradiction in your two points. Why didn't you make quitting smoking one of your "if you love me" tests? Because if he really cared about you, your second point says that he would have quit in support of you. Or does it only apply to "unimportant" things? And who defines what is what?

 

Why can't love be equally defined as an acceptance of your partner and an understanding that they (if nothing else, due to gender) are different and see some things differently than you do? I don't agree with some (sometimes many ) of the things my wife does but I don't see it as my job - or right - to change her.

 

Mr. Lucky

[morelaugh]

Ok, in that case, lets answer your questions, Mr. Lucky:

 

 

Why didn't you make quitting smoking one of your "if you love me" tests?

- Because I don’t do "if you love me" tests. Life is resourceful enough to set all the tests we need (for all of us).

 

Because if he really cared about you, your second point says that he would have quit in support of you.

- Not quite. Quitting smoking was obviously harder for him than it was for me (for whatever reason). He was the one in need. He needed my help a lot more than I needed his, if you want to put it that way.

 

Or does it only apply to "unimportant" things?

- Well, yes. If he claimed that smoking was totally unimportant to him, that he could stop whenever he wants and continued to do it just ‘because’ I would have totally different attitude.

Besides, his smoking didn’t actually HURT me. It hurt him much more.

 

And who defines what is what? (I assume this means: Who defines what’s important?)

- Everyone decides for themselves.

My H decided quitting smoking was important to him. He also decided porn was not.

- I decided my own needs for support, in the process of quitting smoking, were not very important. His porn viewing hurt me enough to assign it much higher importance.

 

Why can't love be equally defined as an acceptance of your partner and an understanding that they (if nothing else, due to gender) are different and see some things differently than you do?

- It can and it is. But that 's not the only and complete defintion.

Things/actions have different importance or different value if you want. Everyone decides what that value is for them.

Here we’re talking about things that hold so much value in the eyes of one partner that can’t be simply ignored.

 

I don't agree with some (sometimes many ) of the things my wife does but I don't see it as my job - or right - to change her.

- We all have ‘things’ like that.

Having problem with one area, doesn’t mean you want to change everything in your partner. It doesn’t even mean you want to change/control everything you don’t like.

 

It simply means you’re hurting. If that hurt can be solved in a simple and painless way, why not?

 

---

 

Look, this is really quite simple concept: HELP THE PARTNER IN NEED.

 

---

I am under impression that porn viewing is not important to most men who post here (please correct me if I’m wrong)

Based on that assumption, I decided to post my little theory here.

 

Based on that assumption, we have one partner seriously hurt by something that is not even important to the other. I think the solution is simple.

If, on the other hand, we have one partner hurt by something very important to the other, we have a whole different ball game – this theory definitely won’t apply.

[Mr. Lucky]

I am under impression that porn viewing is not important to most men who post here (please correct me if I’m wrong)

Based on that assumption, I decided to post my little theory here.

Nope, porn viewing isn't ultimately important to me. Neither is catching an occasional game with the guys or tweaking my fantasy football team. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be dealing with some level of resentment if asked to give them up. I think my spouse has things that she would feel the same way about...

 

Mr. Lucky

[morelaugh]

Fair enough.

 

Nope, porn viewing isn't ultimately important to me. Neither is catching an occasional game with the guys or tweaking my fantasy football team. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be dealing with some level of resentment if asked to give them up. I think my spouse has things that she would feel the same way about...

 

I suppose, everyone has things like that.

 

However, my H claims he holds no resentment about it. And I have no reason not to believe him. Mind you, I’m not a snooping type, so I don’t have any solid proof.

 

But seriously if, hypothetically, your spouse had problems with any one of those things, would you be able to give them up without resentment?

If not, why not?

 

I’m sure I’d be able to give up my shopping sessions, the latest course I’m interested in or the coffee with the friends in a heartbeat if that somehow hurt my H (or our finances, if you prefer more pragmatic approach).

 

Besides, I NEVER asked him to give it ANYTHING up.

He offered.

[Mr. Lucky]

Besides, I NEVER asked him to give it ANYTHING up.

He offered.

Sounds like you married well . And since my wife has never had an issue with it, perhaps I did also ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[morelaugh]

Sounds like you married well . And since my wife has never had an issue with it, perhaps I did also ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I’m sure you did!

 

I understand you chose not to answer my question, but I think it would be really interesting to know, so I’ll ask again:

 

... if, hypothetically, your spouse had problems with any one of those things you mentioned, would you be able to give them up without resentment?

 

If not, why not?

[Mr. Lucky]

... if, hypothetically, your spouse had problems with any one of those things you mentioned, would you be able to give them up without resentment?

Give them up, sure - porn included. Without resentment, probably not - just being honest ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[morelaugh]

Give them up, sure - porn included. Without resentment, probably not - just being honest ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Hey, that’s alright, I’m not going to judge one way or another .

 

Is it a matter of personality or the type of thing you are (for lack of a better word) ‘expected’ to give up?

 

Is there anything you WOULD be able give up without resentment?

[sxyNYCcpl]

Is it a matter of personality or the type of thing you are (for lack of a better word) ‘expected’ to give up?

 

Is there anything you WOULD be able give up without resentment?

 

I echo Mr. Lucky's statement that though certain activities aren't very important to me, I would likely resent being asked to give them up. Whether or not the "likely" kicks in would depend on one very important point... why I was being asked to give up the activity in question.

 

If it's "just because", that's not good enough. Only my parents had the right to say that to me, and even their right to do so ended a number of years ago.

 

"You spend too much time (or money) on it..." While it's hypothetically debatable based on the definition of "too much" (on which reasonable people could disagree), it is potentially a good reason, though it would tend to be an argument to cutback as opposed to abstaining.

 

"I don't like it." So what, you're not being asked to participate.

 

Now, getting back to the core issue and whether or not it's reasonable for women to ask their spouses to not use porn. Again, why?

 

If the answer is that because you use porn so much that our sex life has suffered, that's a good reason, if true. One should consider in a case like this the man isn't interested in sex for reasons (reasonable or not) that have nothing to do with porn.

 

Other than that, I have seen no reason listed by any poster that rises to the level of "good enough".

 

It's "immoral"? Says you?

 

It's "unrealistic"? Perhaps, depends on what you watch I suppose. Then again, "Two and a half men" is unrealistic, too, I wouldn't consider that a valid reason to be restricted from watching it.

 

"If you watch that, it means you're more interested in those women than me." Hogwash, if that were true, we'd have left you already.

 

And on, and on.

 

The simple truth is that for many women, though not all, the root of the "why" they want/expect their husbands to not use porn has more to do with their own discomfort with their own sexuality than with any valid concern.

[morelaugh]

If you are talking to me, I suggest you first read my previous posts.

Pretty much all the answers to your questions are there. You didn’t even have to guess.

 

The simple truth is that for many women, though not all, the root of the "why" they want/expect their husbands to not use porn has more to do with their own discomfort with their own sexuality than with any valid concern.

 

The simple truth?

Says who???

And who gets to decide what is a ‘valid concern’? You?

 

As a woman, and as someone who's struggling with something similar, I am in a much better position to tell you what the truth is.

And I’m telling you – it usually has NOTHING to do with woman’s sexuality.

[sxyNYCcpl]

If you are talking to me, I suggest you first read my previous posts.

Pretty much all the answers to your questions are there. You didn’t even have to guess.

 

It's completely possible that I missed one or more posts, but in what I saw, you said that your initial problem had nothing to do with porn, and your husband gave it up not only voluntarily, but without you even making a request that he do so. Perhaps I missed something important, but that limited information doesn't give me enough to form an opinion about your situation at all. I don't know that it matters, as our debate is not about any specific individual.

 

As a woman, and as someone who's struggling with something similar, I am in a much better position to tell you what the truth is.

And I’m telling you – it usually has NOTHING to do with woman’s sexuality.

 

I know nothing about what you're struggling with, but I will say your experience differs from my observations of the human condition.

[annieo]

The simple truth is that for many women, though not all, the root of the "why" they want/expect their husbands to not use porn has more to do with their own discomfort with their own sexuality than with any valid concern.

 

Hmmm, a slight overstatement perhaps. And imo off base. Might have more to do with a woman's discomfort with her husband's sexuality, depending on the content and extent of his use.

 

Whenever I see the words "simple" and "truth" put together in a sentence as you have done, I hear "oversimplification" and "overgeneralized version of your truth".

 

If you've read my previous posts, you'll see I'm not perfect, and my mind has wandered. But I've also been on the receiving end of some less that honest/noble behavior from my h, and my indignation had nothing to do with my feelings about sex. They had to do with his deceit. I think lying is what sends most people over the edge.

[morelaugh]

... as our debate is not about any specific individual.

 

I know nothing about what you're struggling with, but I will say your experience differs from my observations of the human condition.

 

 

Alright, fair enough, but even if we’re talking in general, I still don’t think it’s the woman’s sexuality that is in the core of it. Every woman is different, but what tends to be a pattern is feeling that your spouse would prefer someone else because they find you somehow inferior (look wise) to those ‘perfect’ women. If you want ‘the simple truth’ it is more about being threatened by the stereotypical - and increasingly harder to achieve - standards of female beauty than anything else.

 

It would be interesting to hear if other women with similar problems agree with this.

 

I personally, wasn’t always like this. I never had problem with porn before, we were no strangers to threesomes and I could still be probably described as anything but sexually repressed.

 

The trigger for me was simply getting older.

 

Whenever I see the words "simple" and "truth" put together in a sentence as you have done, I hear "oversimplification" and "overgeneralized version of your truth".

Very true.

 

I think lying is what sends most people over the edge.

This is also very high on the list.

[annieo]

Alright, fair enough, but even if we’re talking in general, I still don’t think it’s the woman’s sexuality that is in the core of it. Every woman is different, but what tends to be a pattern is feeling that your spouse would prefer someone else because they find you somehow inferior (look wise) to those ‘perfect’ women. If you want ‘the simple truth’ it is more about being threatened by the stereotypical - and increasingly harder to achieve - standards of female beauty than anything else.

 

It would be interesting to hear if other women with similar problems agree with this.

 

While there are a lot of beautiful women that my h can (and does, every week or so, according to him) jerk off to on the net, there are also a lot of beautiful women in the world, on the street, at his work, so I don't see the point in getting too distressed about it. What am I going to do, kill them all?

 

And I happen to be one of them. Even at my advanced age (43) I still get looked at, smiled at and occassionally asked out (most recently for coffee, by a very cute man 15 years younger than myself. I said no. I'm married).

 

There are also a lot of beautiful, funny, amazing men in my world and I appreciate them. So I'd be a bit of a hypocrite if I begrudged my h the odd look, the errant fantasy. I've had them, too.

 

I think what you're referring to more laugh, is the crappy situation of aging, of which I am rapidly becoming aware. You look in the mirror and you see the changes. Doesn't mean you aren't still a hottie, but you are an older hottie, and things don't look the way they used to. Some days it bugs the crap out of me and I've started to spend ridiculous amounts of money for grease for my face. The idea of cosmetic surgery (botox, collagen injections around my mouth) is becoming more appealing.

 

But I don't blame porn and I don't blame men. I just hate certain physical aspects of getting older. It reminds me that I'm going to die one day. But it hasn't hurt my sex life with my h (last night, for example ) or my interactions with other men. I may change my tune in a few years, but I am currently able to deal with the physical because I am very happy with the confidence, the wisdom that has come along with my furrows, my smile lines. I hope I don't lose that feeling of loving myself, flaws and all.

 

And if my h starts treating me like a used up rag in a few years, he's the one who will get thrown in the bin.

[soserious1]

While there are a lot of beautiful women that my h can (and does, every week or so, according to him) jerk off to on the net, there are also a lot of beautiful women in the world, on the street, at his work, so I don't see the point in getting too distressed about it. What am I going to do, kill them all?

 

And I happen to be one of them. Even at my advanced age (43) I still get looked at, smiled at and occassionally asked out (most recently for coffee, by a very cute man 15 years younger than myself. I said no. I'm married).

 

There are also a lot of beautiful, funny, amazing men in my world and I appreciate them. So I'd be a bit of a hypocrite if I begrudged my h the odd look, the errant fantasy. I've had them, too.

 

I think what you're referring to more laugh, is the crappy situation of aging, of which I am rapidly becoming aware. You look in the mirror and you see the changes. Doesn't mean you aren't still a hottie, but you are an older hottie, and things don't look the way they used to. Some days it bugs the crap out of me and I've started to spend ridiculous amounts of money for grease for my face. The idea of cosmetic surgery (botox, collagen injections around my mouth) is becoming more appealing.

 

But I don't blame porn and I don't blame men. I just hate certain physical aspects of getting older. It reminds me that I'm going to die one day. But it hasn't hurt my sex life with my h (last night, for example ) or my interactions with other men. I may change my tune in a few years, but I am currently able to deal with the physical because I am very happy with the confidence, the wisdom that has come along with my furrows, my smile lines. I hope I don't lose that feeling of loving myself, flaws and all.

 

And if my h starts treating me like a used up rag in a few years, he's the one who will get thrown in the bin.

 

 

 

Just wait till you're a few years older, when he loses his erection at the sight of you nude, when he's reaching over and turning off all the lights or when he's got to watch porn for an hour to work himself up enough to touch you,

and he's making every excuse under the sun to avoid being sexual with you that confidence you feel will be replaced by red hot shame.

 

The realisation that I'm going to die doesn't frighten me, what does frighten me is the thought that it will be later rather than sooner.

[morelaugh]

I think what you're referring to more laugh, is the crappy situation of aging, of which I am rapidly becoming aware. You look in the mirror and you see the changes. Doesn't mean you aren't still a hottie, but you are an older hottie, and things don't look the way they used to. Some days it bugs the crap out of me and I've started to spend ridiculous amounts of money for grease for my face. The idea of cosmetic surgery (botox, collagen injections around my mouth) is becoming more appealing.

I suppose you’re right.

 

It’s not even that I think that I look that bad, but things don't look the way they used to, as you have said.

 

I don’t blame porn and I certainly don’t blame men.

 

Porn started to make me uncomfortable and, at least at the moment, I feel better without it my life. That’s all. I’m not declaring war to the industry.

 

I do believe the society, or rather media, are partially to blame (not for me getting older) but for imposing more or less impossible standards and for the obsession with the youth and beauty, especially for women. That is one of the reasons cosmetic surgery is not something I would even consider.

 

Can’t do much about the society, but as I said, I’m dealing with it my own way.

[soserious1]

Since men are hard wired to scan the room for young,healthy,fertile females, since they need to have erections to have inter course, what will you ladies do when the day comes that your husband loses his erection at the sight of you nude ? What will you do when instead of trying to get you out of your clothes, he's handing you a bathroom and trying to keep you in them?

 

Assuming he's not verbally cruel about it,how will you cope with the male hard wiring that renders you physically undesirable to him?

[annieo]

It will be replaced by red hot anger, not shame. Then I would feel nothing for him. I suppose I am lucky to have been born with this self-defense mechanism (or a massive ego). If I am treated badly, I punish and then you don't exist. Poof, you're gone. The only people this doesn't apply to are my kids. I might feel like an idiot for allowing him into my life, but ultimately, it's his loss.

 

Why in gods name should any person feel shame about getting older? EVERYBODY gets older, if they're lucky! I might as well feel ashamed about my breathing, my digestion, my heart beating in my chest.

 

If what you described happens, I will ditch him and I will eventually replace him, with a hopefully better version of a man. Or I'll be alone, which might not be so bad, a bit of peace and quiet finally. In the meantime, well, so far, so good.

[soserious1]

It will be replaced by red hot anger, not shame. Then I would feel nothing for him. I suppose I am lucky to have been born with this self-defense mechanism (or a massive ego). If I am treated badly, I punish and then you don't exist. Poof, you're gone. The only people this doesn't apply to are my kids. I might feel like an idiot for allowing him into my life, but ultimately, it's his loss.

 

Why in gods name should any person feel shame about getting older? EVERYBODY gets older, if they're lucky! I might as well feel ashamed about my breathing, my digestion, my heart beating in my chest.

 

If what you described happens, I will ditch him and I will eventually replace him, with a hopefully better version of a man. Or I'll be alone, which might not be so bad, a bit of peace and quiet finally. In the meantime, well, so far, so good.

 

 

Assuming here, that he continues to be kind to you but that he's just no longer physically aroused by your aging face and body due to how men are programmed by mother nature, what will you do then?

[annieo]

I'd probably find myself a boyfriend. On the qt.

[annieo]

Actually, I take that back. I'd probably leave. I'm a lousy liar, so an affair would be difficult.