Upside the Head

[Lipsy]

Hello All....

 

I dont really know where to start...I have over the past 6 weeks been reading, digesting and re-reading information to help me adapt, apply and change myself for the better.

 

Six weeks ago... I aksed my H of 8 years whether there had ever been any other women involved in our relationship/marriage.... H's response floored me .... he admitted to one short-term Physical affair six months ago...... I know OW vaguely... H obviously knows her alot more intimately ..... ..... H claims that the A is over...

 

H is still in the house .... and we have had a couple of in depth conversations about this ... but he provides me with only very sketchy details about the A .... I want dates...Times.. so that I can fit this into the timeline of my life and marriage.... H has now closed down and pulled away from me completely.... He goes out some nights and doesn't come home until the next evening.... and when he does come home he's harder and more distant each time ... I think that there may still be some contact with OW... but have no proof as yet...

 

I have to say that my suspicions were aroused enough to ask my H whether he had ever had an affair because of his continued distance over the past 6-8 months..... I thought we were just going through a rough patch.... and I know H has had stress with his job.... so I tried to remain the solid, good wife that he knows and (I thought) Loved.... and have been a support system for him throughout our marriage.... I didn't even suspect an affair until recently ... when more and more red flags began to appear....

 

Our faimly's are shocked ..... It's completely out of character for H ...... It's like he has been taken over by somebody else ... almost as if he has been possessed .... he is so angry and distant ... I dont know what to do next.....

 

Our marriage has always been very good (I thought) ... ... I am strong .... and he likes that about me ..... He is strong aswell .... and I need someone like that to put me in my place from time to time ... our sex life has always been ..... brilliant ..... and we connect on a very deep level ... spritually, mentally, financially... I just dont get this.....

 

I have not begged or pleaded with H at all .... that will only push him away further ..... but I do want to save my marriage .... and don't really know where to start or how to implement any of the material that I have learnt because H is not receptive to it at the moment..... I love my Husband and I want to save my marriage ... when I made my vows ... I meant them ... and I WILL NOT give up on my marriage without a fight .... BUT ... I WILL NOT be walked on and treated like a doormat either .... I will not tolerate his lies... and I WILL NOT allow him to cake eat ... but I have a feeling that's what's happening... I think H is getting needs met from both me and OW at the moment .... I just want to smack him upside the head and tell him to get a grip and be the man that he promised he would be on our wedding day ....

 

So... I really need some help from the experts here ...... I appreaciate the mistakes that I have made in my marriage and have been working hard to try and change these things about myself ..... but as I said before..... H is not receptive to anything that I am doing at the moment .... How do I implement my changes but get him to notice them .... ?? ... And how do I find out if H is still in contact with OW ..?? ... And if he is .... How do I get the affair to end .....

 

Thanks in advance.....

[SingleDad]

Lispy - Go to marriagebuilders.com - Dr. Harley has lots of advice and letters on surviving an affair... also LadyJane has been posting at loveshack.org for years and should have some great advice for you... read some of the advice she posts on other threads.

[Gunny376]

You teach people how to treat you. And when it comes to some men? Well its the same as training a mule, you first pick up a 2X4 and crack it over the front of his head. Just to get their attention!

 

You sound to me like an "Alpha" female, so be one~! Get a attorney, have divorce papers drawn up, have his butt served, force him out of the house.

 

Its just like work Swettie, you've got your minor offenses, your major ones, and then you've got your intolerable ones. This isn't about his cheating, nor about this or that. This is about dominance and control of the relatonship.

 

Assert yourself.

 

LadyJane Up/ Chorome Barcuda / Darth?

[Gunny376]

Lispy - Go to marriagebuilders.com - Dr. Harley has lots of advice and letters on surviving an affair... also LadyJane has been posting at loveshack.org for years and should have some great advice for you... read some of the advice she posts on other threads.

 

LJ would have put his azz to the curb in a freaking heart-beat! LJ rolls with "Mr Reality" carrying a Louieville Slugger.

 

When she was little they kicked her out of kindergardern. Why? When they told her to go out for recess, she asked what they was, and they told her that's when you go out to play,....................crossing her arms across her chest she told them, "I DON'T PLAY AROUND!"

[imagine]

Lispy - Go to marriagebuilders.com - Dr. Harley has lots of advice and letters on surviving an affair... also LadyJane has been posting at loveshack.org for years and should have some great advice for you... read some of the advice she posts on other threads.

 

You will not regret taking SingleDads advice. Write and thank him later on this thread!

[quankanne]

ask him point-blank what he wants, and what he's willing to do to accomplish that, but be prepared to hear that he either doesn't know or that he wants out of the marriage. Because as cold or cruel as it may sound, this at least gives you an idea of where you stand.

[Lipsy]

Lispy - Go to marriagebuilders.com - Dr. Harley has lots of advice and letters on surviving an affair... also LadyJane has been posting at loveshack.org for years and should have some great advice for you... read some of the advice she posts on other threads.

 

Thanks ..... I've been to marriagebuilders and have read through every single article on there..... I agree with alot of it .... but not all of it .... I have ordered and read Surviving an Affair and His Needs Her needs .... And I'm working on it .....

[Lipsy]

You teach people how to treat you. And when it comes to some men? Well its the same as training a mule, you first pick up a 2X4 and crack it over the front of his head. Just to get their attention!

 

You sound to me like an "Alpha" female, so be one~! Get a attorney, have divorce papers drawn up, have his butt served, force him out of the house.

 

Its just like work Swettie, you've got your minor offenses, your major ones, and then you've got your intolerable ones. This isn't about his cheating, nor about this or that. This is about dominance and control of the relatonship.

 

Assert yourself.

 

LadyJane Up/ Chorome Barcuda / Darth?

 

Gunny ... Thanks .... I prolly needed that .... I appreciate what you are saying and to a point you are right .... I WILL NOT let my husband cake eat ..... He knows that ... he KNOWS I mean business .... He knows better than anyone what i'm like when I've got a bee in my bonnet.... I have contemplated chucking him out ... believe me .... I've contemplated worse than that ..... he's lucky that he's woken up with his widger still in tact each morning ..... I am more angry than you could ever imagine .....

 

But will throwing him out and getting divorce papers written up REALLY help to save my marriage ... ??? ..... Sure..... I can get tough on this ..... If I want to ..... But what if he calls my bluff ..... Am I REALLY ready to throw away 15 years (in total) .... of my life ..... Remember ..... I want my HUSBAND back .... NOT this Wayward Idiot ....... I believe he's still in there somewhere ..... I just need to find a way to get this affair to end ... otherwise..... we've got no chance....

 

Marriagebuilders mentionabout a Plan A and Plan B scenario .... that's what I've been trying to implement at the moment .... whilst H is still in the house I've been trying to apply a Sage Plan A .... making home an inviting place for him and trying to meet his most important needs ... trying to get him to end the affair with OW ..... BUT if I need to .... I will Plan B him ..... and go non-contact..... He wont know what hit him.

 

Does anyone know or had any experience as to whether these Plans work.... I suppose it's different for each individual case .... But its so hard trying to meet his needs when all I want to really do is castrate him with a spoon...

[Lipsy]

ask him point-blank what he wants, and what he's willing to do to accomplish that, but be prepared to hear that he either doesn't know or that he wants out of the marriage. Because as cold or cruel as it may sound, this at least gives you an idea of where you stand.

 

Thanks Quankanne .... When I ask him what it is he wants .... he say's he wants me.... and he loves me .... but his actions dont always back that up ..... he's torn .... I can tell ... he's broken too ..... but I cant be responsible for his poor choices .... and I'm sure not going to sit around and let him walk all over me .... I'm just confused as to which way to go now ..... I want to save my marriage .... I'm willing to fight for it ..... but I need some direction ..... and I need some honesty from My H if this is going to work....

[SingleDad]

I have questioned whether my STBXW is having an affair - but I learned that it just doesn't matter... she will either divorce me for him or some other life - or - I can fight lovingly and subtly be a better man and learn to satisfy her emotional needs and be a better friend to her than any other person can be. That is my only hope at this point.

 

Several of those article and books illustrate the dynamics of affairs and why they happen.

thus - Lipsy - Not sure honesty about the details of the affair will do much good for you - will just leave you hurt - may be better to stop asking - affairs usually occur because the wayward spouse was not getting something they expected out of the marriage - not sure what is was in your case as things seemed good - many want to think about what may have been lacking - if anything.

 

However, Honesty about his feeling for you and your feelings for him is important they need to be discussed. Most likely his love bank is empty and your is running dry. both need to work on that. Also read the Five Love Languages - by Gary Chapman and Divorce Busting by Michelle Weiner-Davis

 

H needs to sleep at home everynight... Not coming home is certainly leaving room for doubt and suspicion.

 

Possible that your questions, probing is pushing him into the arms of the OW. i.e. causing withdrawals from love bank.

 

May want his cake and eat it too. That is a tough situation to overcome. - that is the plan B.

[imagine]

Plan A has a reported 15% success rate on exposure alone.

 

It has three phases viz. exposure, reconciliation and lastly rehabilitation. Plan A leans upon your strength of your "giver side" to woo back the wayward. Should WH start to abuse this situation or you become too emotionally drained to endure, plan B kicks in.

 

Success rate varies according to distance into the affair, backsliding on the part of the plan implementer and frequency of WH contact with OW.

 

Key areas to look at are: lovebusters (LB), disrespectful judgments(DJ) - don't do these- and meeting emotional needs(EN's) - try to determine what these are for your WH.

 

I have been watching marriage builders for quite some time and have been impressed by the rapid results that are posted. They are a pro-marriage site. However this does not mean that they will recommend divorce when they think it prudent.

 

Your case sounds like another of the classic ones dealt with there every day. Quite salvageable. They will help you look for your old husband!

[Ladyjane14]

 

Marriagebuilders mentionabout a Plan A and Plan B scenario .... that's what I've been trying to implement at the moment .... whilst H is still in the house I've been trying to apply a Sage Plan A .... making home an inviting place for him and trying to meet his most important needs ... trying to get him to end the affair with OW ..... BUT if I need to .... I will Plan B him ..... and go non-contact..... He wont know what hit him.

 

Does anyone know or had any experience as to whether these Plans work.... I suppose it's different for each individual case .... But its so hard trying to meet his needs when all I want to really do is castrate him with a spoon...

 

First off... I think you're on the right track. That said, I would HIGHLY recommend to you that you take Harley's information right from the horse's mouth and stay off the boards over there. You don't want to settle for someone else's interpretation of the information, particularly if it comes with arm-twisting. You're better off to read his book Surviving an Affair and his articles on the website and then tailor them to suit your own needs.

 

There is no ONE program that's going to guarantee you success. But I do like Harley's the best. It actually worked for me, but weirdly... I had already worked it before I discovered the website. At the time, I was flying by the seat of my pants, and even though my choices felt a bit odd to me, they also felt RIGHT.

 

Initially, like Gunny said (he cracks me up! ).... I wasn't "playing". I demanded a divorce right off the bat. My husband seemed to sincerely want to work things out, and even though I didn't have a doubt in my mind before our confrontation, I found myself agreeing to work on it. That's when I ended up doing "Plan A", addressing all the issues that had put him in enough distress to seek outside the marriage, becoming his "soft place to fall", his friend, companion, and confidant. It does no good to love someone if they can't FEEL your love. It's the same as not loving them at all.

 

The thing I want to point out to you now though... is that my husband is a pretty good guy. He's NOT some kind of self-entitled narcissist who I just happened to bust. This behavior was an aberration for him. So much so that he couldn't even pull it off without getting caught. He was still two weeks short of meeting up with the OW in person. So, he wasn't getting the physical aspect of the affair addiction, just the emotional. That made my job ALOT easier... because basically, I just identified what he was getting from her, supplied it myself... and put her silly ass out of business.

 

In a nutshell... that's what "Plan A" means to me. You put the OW "out of business". And yeah, you have to protect yourself too by setting some boundaries on what you will and will not tolerate in proceeding forward, so it ends up being a carrot and stick proposition. But to me, it's as much "carrot" as you can get him to eat and "stick" only at the greatest need.

 

Now, that sounds like rolling over and just piddling, I know. But the GOAL is to replace the ENs (emotional needs) he's getting from OW, afterall. It's not until that relationship is broken up that you're going to get any sense out of him anyway. It's all nonsense until then. So, you focus on your goal.

 

It's likely that he's still carrying on his affair. He's still behaving in a mean and snarky way which is typical when they're conflicted. I think if I were you, I'd work "Plan A" for awhile. Search and address ENs, but don't be overly obsequious about it. Your mood should be that of a concerned friend who has his best interest at heart, not a doormat who doesn't mind being walked on. It's a fine line.

 

Be prepared for him to backslide a time or two, even after he promises 'No Contact'. They rarely get it right the first time. You'll know when it's time to go to "Plan B" because he'll have either become complacent with continued contact or he'll insist on exploring this affair. At that point... you take away his "cake". You're NOBODY's fall-back plan, right? So this would be the time to show him that you are a person of unique value in your own right. And as you withdraw the accumulated ENs he's grown dependent upon with a dark "Plan B", he sees the stark contrast of what it means to have you IN his life as opposed to the what it means to have you OUT of it.

 

Sometimes you can put the fear of 'no return' in them right from the off by coming out strong with no tolerance like I did. But if they don't immediately roll over, shape up, and at least try to fly right... that puts you in the position of needing to bust up the affair. Harley's plan is a good one, but it hinges on a really stellar "Plan A" because it relies on showing the WS this contrast between having it good with you and being stuck with OW.

 

This is probably going to offend some people, but...OWs are innately flawed for the most part, so you've got a good shot at beating her time. Think about it. She's willing to f*ck somebody else's husband and she has her own reasons for doing that. Sometimes they're just young, emotionally immature, and buying into a sob story. Sometimes it's a matter of low self-esteem and the need to prove they're better than some wife they don't even know.

Sometimes it's a total absence of social morality. You name it. But they all have their reasons and they're all GETTING A PAYOFF from being involved in the extramarital relationship.

 

You've got alot of assets on your side... history, family, community, continuity, honor, and the OW has NONE of that. What she's got instead is a hole in her character. She might have his hormones in a bunch, but that's just because she's still got the "new car smell" on her. You can certainly hold your own if a fight if you're willing to be smart and utilize your logical mind.

[Gunny376]

"I do tell, Miss Scarlett (LJ) that I do belive that's some of the best advice I've ever heard come out of your mouth!"

[Ladyjane14]

"Oh fiddle-dee-dee, Rhett. How you do go on."

[Lipsy]

First off... I think you're on the right track. That said, I would HIGHLY recommend to you that you take Harley's information right from the horse's mouth and stay off the boards over there. You don't want to settle for someone else's interpretation of the information, particularly if it comes with arm-twisting. You're better off to read his book Surviving an Affair and his articles on the website and then tailor them to suit your own needs.

 

There is no ONE program that's going to guarantee you success. But I do like Harley's the best. It actually worked for me, but weirdly... I had already worked it before I discovered the website. At the time, I was flying by the seat of my pants, and even though my choices felt a bit odd to me, they also felt RIGHT.

 

Initially, like Gunny said (he cracks me up! ).... I wasn't "playing". I demanded a divorce right off the bat. My husband seemed to sincerely want to work things out, and even though I didn't have a doubt in my mind before our confrontation, I found myself agreeing to work on it. That's when I ended up doing "Plan A", addressing all the issues that had put him in enough distress to seek outside the marriage, becoming his "soft place to fall", his friend, companion, and confidant. It does no good to love someone if they can't FEEL your love. It's the same as not loving them at all.

 

The thing I want to point out to you now though... is that my husband is a pretty good guy. He's NOT some kind of self-entitled narcissist who I just happened to bust. This behavior was an aberration for him. So much so that he couldn't even pull it off without getting caught. He was still two weeks short of meeting up with the OW in person. So, he wasn't getting the physical aspect of the affair addiction, just the emotional. That made my job ALOT easier... because basically, I just identified what he was getting from her, supplied it myself... and put her silly ass out of business.

 

In a nutshell... that's what "Plan A" means to me. You put the OW "out of business". And yeah, you have to protect yourself too by setting some boundaries on what you will and will not tolerate in proceeding forward, so it ends up being a carrot and stick proposition. But to me, it's as much "carrot" as you can get him to eat and "stick" only at the greatest need.

 

Now, that sounds like rolling over and just piddling, I know. But the GOAL is to replace the ENs (emotional needs) he's getting from OW, afterall. It's not until that relationship is broken up that you're going to get any sense out of him anyway. It's all nonsense until then. So, you focus on your goal.

 

It's likely that he's still carrying on his affair. He's still behaving in a mean and snarky way which is typical when they're conflicted. I think if I were you, I'd work "Plan A" for awhile. Search and address ENs, but don't be overly obsequious about it. Your mood should be that of a concerned friend who has his best interest at heart, not a doormat who doesn't mind being walked on. It's a fine line.

 

Be prepared for him to backslide a time or two, even after he promises 'No Contact'. They rarely get it right the first time. You'll know when it's time to go to "Plan B" because he'll have either become complacent with continued contact or he'll insist on exploring this affair. At that point... you take away his "cake". You're NOBODY's fall-back plan, right? So this would be the time to show him that you are a person of unique value in your own right. And as you withdraw the accumulated ENs he's grown dependent upon with a dark "Plan B", he sees the stark contrast of what it means to have you IN his life as opposed to the what it means to have you OUT of it.

 

Sometimes you can put the fear of 'no return' in them right from the off by coming out strong with no tolerance like I did. But if they don't immediately roll over, shape up, and at least try to fly right... that puts you in the position of needing to bust up the affair. Harley's plan is a good one, but it hinges on a really stellar "Plan A" because it relies on showing the WS this contrast between having it good with you and being stuck with OW.

 

This is probably going to offend some people, but...OWs are innately flawed for the most part, so you've got a good shot at beating her time. Think about it. She's willing to f*ck somebody else's husband and she has her own reasons for doing that. Sometimes they're just young, emotionally immature, and buying into a sob story. Sometimes it's a matter of low self-esteem and the need to prove they're better than some wife they don't even know.

Sometimes it's a total absence of social morality. You name it. But they all have their reasons and they're all GETTING A PAYOFF from being involved in the extramarital relationship.

 

You've got alot of assets on your side... history, family, community, continuity, honor, and the OW has NONE of that. What she's got instead is a hole in her character. She might have his hormones in a bunch, but that's just because she's still got the "new car smell" on her. You can certainly hold your own if a fight if you're willing to be smart and utilize your logical mind.

 

Thanks so much for you throughtful advice LadyJayne..... My first response to finding out about H's affair was pretty similar to yourself..... I told him to sling his hook.... told him I wanted a divorce and that he better get himself a good lawyer .... cause I was on the war path .... That reaction was greeted with extreme anger at first .... Then conflict ..... then remorse... then anger again .... more anger than I had ever seen come from my H ..... he left that night and then came home the following afternoon a broken man ....... completely torn and broken .... I am assuming that he had been with OW ..... and I think that my stance was discussed in some detail ..... I certainly think that it my have caused some chinks in their affair armour .... thats for sure......

 

It was that evening that I saw glimpses of MY husband still in there ..... and it was then that I made the decision to fight this thing .... I see it (the affair) as a beast that needs to be slayed ..... and although I love my husband ..... I am not willing to tolerate being walked on ..... I have already worked on and identified SOME of the attributes I have which assisted in my husbands choices ...... but ..... at the same time.... I am not responsible for his affair ....

 

My husband IS a good man Ladyjayne ..... he really is .... he's stubborn .... and occasionally pig headed ..... but he's hardworking, loyal and kind ..... His whole family are shocked that he has done this .... and that's why I have faith that this thing can work itself out....

 

I have been implementing Harley's plan's to the best of my ability .... although it is early days ..... and H is too much in conflict to really be receptive at the moment ...... my main focus now ..... is as you stated .... provide a safe environment for H at home.... try and be a friend...and confidant to him ..... someone that he can feel comfortable opening up to .... but I have set myself some boundaries ..... I will NOT be intimate with him .... whilst there is any chance that he is bed hopping between me and OW.....

 

As for OW ..... She has a bit of a reputation for this kind of thing .... she's the kind of woman who likes to take what's someone elses.... just to make her feel better about herself ...... she's not married and never has been ..... (I wonder why!) .....

 

I have so much more over her than she as bargained for this time though .... she lives in a 1 bedroomed apartment ..... the curtains are always closed there..... and a source close to me has told me that she's messy.... cant cook.... and lives like a slob .... My husband will HATE that .... One of my qualities is that I have the ability to make a house into a home .... and my husband loves that ...... he's a hard worker .... but he like's to come home to a warm, inviting home ..... I've been making sure that whenever he comes home.... he can smell something really great cooking in the oven ..... and I have noticed that over the past week or so .... he's kind of ..... relaxed when he's come in .... It's like he de-stresses....completely....so maybe .... just maybe .... my plan is taking some effect....

 

I also have the support of his family who have told him in no uncertain terms that OW is not welcome in their home ... I am very close to my FIL and he has been a great support to me through all of this .... they are as shocked and disgusted with H's behavior as me....

 

So..... I suppose I just carry on as I have been for the moment ..... minimal relationship talk and meeting his needs..... I dont know how long I can do it for though ..... it's certainly not easy when you dont get anything back..... I will keep on for a few more weeks ...... but I dont think I could take it for much longer....

 

On what maybe a slightly more positive note ..... H has just called me to say that he'll be home early tonight because he wants to talk ...... I will listen ... but I am NOT going to be fed with Bullsh~t .... I have my radar out ....

[Ladyjane14]

 

It was that evening that I saw glimpses of MY husband still in there ..... and it was then that I made the decision to fight this thing .... I see it (the affair) as a beast that needs to be slayed ..... and although I love my husband ..... I am not willing to tolerate being walked on ..... I have already worked on and identified SOME of the attributes I have which assisted in my husbands choices ...... but ..... at the same time.... I am not responsible for his affair ....

 

My husband IS a good man Ladyjayne ..... he really is .... he's stubborn .... and occasionally pig headed ..... but he's hardworking, loyal and kind ..... His whole family are shocked that he has done this .... and that's why I have faith that this thing can work itself out....

 

I have been implementing Harley's plan's to the best of my ability .... although it is early days ..... and H is too much in conflict to really be receptive at the moment ...... my main focus now ..... is as you stated .... provide a safe environment for H at home.... try and be a friend...and confidant to him ..... someone that he can feel comfortable opening up to .... but I have set myself some boundaries ..... I will NOT be intimate with him .... whilst there is any chance that he is bed hopping between me and OW.....

 

You have a great attitude and what looks like an almost natural understanding of the balance required for the work ahead.

 

Watch your "love bank" though. The best way to keep him from making deep withdrawals is to focus on the fact that even though your dear sweetie is still "in there somewhere", the WH (wayward husband) is often in control. Separate these two characters out. When you do, you'll notice that the bad behavior of the WH doesn't feel quite as personal anymore.

 

If you look at affair behavior with the clinical detachment a nurse might have for her patient, you'll build less resentment and stem the hemorrhage of loss from your "love bank". That won't stop the damage of course... but it'll slow it down and give you more time.