PORN..what's really the deal?

[Adunaphel]

The idea of my partner fantasizing on pictures of other women turns me off to the point that I stop enjoying having sex with him and I start having fantasies about guys who do not use porn.

I guess that I fall under the "women with low self esteem cathegory", but i am not really sure.

[JackJack]

The whole point of the thread is that there are several reasons why women are opposed to porn, some are valid, while some just seem silly and aren't worth making an issue of.

 

Some women do have self esteem issues that makes them unable to deal with moderate porn usage.

Some women suffer neglect and disrespect a result of their husband's excessive porn usage.

Some women have an ingrained value system in place. e.g., religion that makes them oppsed to seeing women objectified in porn.

Some have other reasons that I can't think of.

 

Of these though, to me, neglect and a value system are valid reasons. Throwing a tantrum because some porn star's boobs are bigger or perkier than yours is just silly.

 

I think you just summed up your whole post and answered your original question.

 

People do have different reasons for acting or feeling the way they do. BUT alot of people lump all those people who feel a certain way about porn into one catagory calling them insecure, weak and and or jealous. I think the people who feel that way must find it real hard to understand there are actually people out there in the world who if they do have an issue with porn that its not always because they are insecure or jealous.

 

I must be lucky. Because I'm really glad I don't have this issue. My wife and I watch it on an occasion together, but that is few and far in between. As I have said in other posts before on this topic, porn is pretty boring to me, I find it meaningless and dull.

[lexi29]

I am not threatened by porn but I don't like it that much. I don't mind if my fiance watches it and sometimes I watch it with him. But as a previous poster said, men who watch it all the time have problems. (if they watch it while in a relationship) and I could NEVER date anyone who watches it all the time (or frequents strip clubs). My fiance's dad has a huge porn collection on his computer and is 64 and constantly looks at porn that involves teenage girls (18 -early 20's) and he has a granddaughter this age. Yuck! I wonder how his 62 yr old wife feels to know she's been with her husband for 43 years and he is enjoying himself by fantasizing about girls as young as his granddaughter. When I was younger (18-21) I dated a guy who was BIG into porn. He looked at it several times a week and once he had internet access (and I wasn't around) he would be on porn sites constantly. It interfered in our sex life. He would be unable to get it up because he'd jerked off that day already to porn.

 

I was a good looking 18 year old with a great body, yet my ex spent so much time looking at big (fake) breasted women, that my slender tight little body (34 C) didn't excite him because he was so used to getting turned on by something totally different. And he loved me and should have gotten so much pleasure from having sex with me (he enjoyed the sex part but I found out he would look at porn before we had sex so he would get turned on) and there was NOTHING wrong with me. I probably looked better than half those women he was looking at. But he was used to a certain thing to arrouse hm and I wasn't it. That hurts. He would also go to see exotic bartenders who serve drinks totally nude and they would have games such as throwing a quarter at a girl and if she caught it between her breasts she could keep it (pathetic and sad). So he definately objectified women.

 

So I think most women are more hurt than threatened by porn because it causes them pain and problems in their relationship. I like watching porn every once in awhile but if someone asked me to give it up it wouldn't be any big deal to me to never watch it again. I'd rather be with the person I love in the real world than holding on to some fantasy world.

[redfathom]

My intention with my post was to disagree with you that trying to make yourself look perfect would solve everything. I understand making yourself comfortable mentally, but for some woman that would be impossible. It would mean compromising on an issue they dn't agree with and I am sure they would feel ashamed.

 

So all woman should agree to let their SO watch it and if they are upset about it that because they have a low self esteem...that's a pretty straight forward generalization. It not so simple as that. Plus, it's not always the womans fault. Turn it around, should a guy not watch it because he knows it hurts his wife's feelings. Why should be not sacrafice his habit for his wife, why is it up to the woman to sacrafice her beliefs?

[Zolar]

Zolar, did you see where the OP posted this:

 

She is not talking about those relationships where porn is the central pathology. Since these porn threads are always big on analogies, we're talking about the difference between an alcoholic and someone who can enjoy a glass of wine.

 

I'm also curious about your statement that porn is "progressive". Can you be more specific?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Yes, I saw the original post - it's the one we are all responding to in this thread.

 

Porn is always pathological. That's my point. Even if you think it is innocent, there is no such thing. The men's fascination with it is "progressive," culminating in the abuse of women. That's why it's threatening.

 

There. That was pretty much a summary of my previous post.

[PandorasBox]

Yes, I saw the original post - it's the one we are all responding to in this thread.

 

Porn is always pathological. That's my point. Even if you think it is innocent, there is no such thing. The men's fascination with it is "progressive," culminating in the abuse of women. That's why it's threatening.

 

There. That was pretty much a summary of my previous post.

 

 

I had a friend who not to long ago got out out the porn industry. Its what she THOUGHT she wanted at that time, and it ended up being awful. She told me alot about what went on in that industry and how its NOT everything its cracked up to be. She even gave me website links to other porn stars who have gotten out of the business and made web pages educating people on what its really about, and they also have told their side of how the porn industry is, how they are treated etc. Some of those stories made me really sad for them and some made me sick to my stomach that some people could be so cruel to them especailly off camera.

[porter218]

He would also go to see exotic bartenders who serve drinks totally nude and they would have games such as throwing a quarter at a girl and if she caught it between her breasts she could keep it (pathetic and sad). So he definately objectified women.

.

What a cheap a$$!

[porter218]

Porter, I understand where you are coming from but in your situation as in others, where the men just don't know how to draw the line (the analogy of being an alcoholic and enjoying a glass of wine once in a while). Porn is not the problem in these situations. You have on your hands, a man with a problem and trust me, it is not porn. The problem is his attitude, his mindset and his way of thinking in general. If you took porn away, it will be something else. Porn and cheating are not mutually exclusive.

 

.

No it wouldn't..If I took porn away, It would be porn then cheating. I fully understand porn in not the only problem, key word *only*. The fact of the matter is I will not stand for any part of the problem. The thing is that when he slips into porn use, it really is in 'moderation' like once a week or every 2 weeks until he ends up in bed with another woman. It is like it his mind starts into wandering into this fantasy world until he can't resist trying to make it real for a day. My situation isn't as uncommon as some people would like to think. If a lot more women started to pay closer attention to patterns they would see. I do PI work on the side and my H is not the only case I worked on like this. If these men can't convince a stripper to go home with them like my H did then they begin to offer $, and this often stems from wanting to live in that fantasy porn world briefly before they go back home to their Ws. I have also worked in a strip club briefly years ago and I know this first hand. When these men would try to take me home and I would see wedding bands on their fingers I would pretend it didn't bother me so I could question them about why they were doing this. I did this so I could keep this information for future use. Often it was the same thing as my H, porn..fantasy world..cheat.

[fral945]

Porn is always pathological. That's my point. Even if you think it is innocent, there is no such thing. The men's fascination with it is "progressive," culminating in the abuse of women. That's why it's threatening.

 

There. That was pretty much a summary of my previous post.

 

You could say the same thing about alcohol. It's progressive and leads to the abuse of women. You're using the "slippery slope" argument, that once something starts it snowballs. This assumption is based on the person having a lack of self control and not realizing his destructive behavior.

 

You can use that argument for almost anything in life (eating junk food, watching TV, etc). I don't think your argument has much merit because there are many people that function quite well watching porn and drinking alcohol without ill effects to society. People can and do exhibit self-control and self-discipline.

 

There will always be a segment of society that takes things to the extreme. You can't denounce porn because there are people that will take the slippery slope.

[The Collector]

Porn is always pathological. That's my point. Even if you think it is innocent, there is no such thing. The men's fascination with it is "progressive," culminating in the abuse of women.

 

So the 99% of men who watch porn are on a one-way, irreversible path to abusing women. That's quite an offensive thing to suggest, as well as being patently untrue.

 

Most men like plain old vanilla porn, men and women having sex, no humiliation or abuse, and don't 'progress' to anything more 'disturbing'. Maybe they prefer brunettes or asians, is that wrong? Go and look at YouPorn and see the most popular videos. It's just other people having sex. Big deal.

[Rorocher]

Porn is always pathological. That's my point. Even if you think it is innocent, there is no such thing. The men's fascination with it is "progressive," culminating in the abuse of women.

 

So what about women who enjoy watching porn? Those of us that don't watch it because our SO watches it or because we want to please him. We watch it because the sight of naked people having sex is arousing and sends blood rushing to our nether regions?

I masturbate regularly and usually desire a visual aid or I read an erotic novel to get me going. Do we also have a propensity to abuse women..or men?

 

Or does this "pathological slipery slope" only apply to men?

[Rorocher]

No it wouldn't..If I took porn away, It would be porn then cheating. I fully understand porn in not the only problem, key word *only*. The fact of the matter is I will not stand for any part of the problem. The thing is that when he slips into porn use, it really is in 'moderation' like once a week or every 2 weeks until he ends up in bed with another woman. It is like it his mind starts into wandering into this fantasy world until he can't resist trying to make it real for a day. My situation isn't as uncommon as some people would like to think. If a lot more women started to pay closer attention to patterns they would see. I do PI work on the side and my H is not the only case I worked on like this. If these men can't convince a stripper to go home with them like my H did then they begin to offer $, and this often stems from wanting to live in that fantasy porn world briefly before they go back home to their Ws. I have also worked in a strip club briefly years ago and I know this first hand. When these men would try to take me home and I would see wedding bands on their fingers I would pretend it didn't bother me so I could question them about why they were doing this. I did this so I could keep this information for future use. Often it was the same thing as my H, porn..fantasy world..cheat.

 

Once again, attitude and mind set. An undisciplined mind cannot and will not be able to separate fantasy from reality. ANY kind of fantasy so if itsn't porn, it will be something else. I stand by that.

[porter218]

Once again, attitude and mind set. An undisciplined mind cannot and will not be able to separate fantasy from reality. ANY kind of fantasy so if itsn't porn, it will be something else. I stand by that.

I guess my point is, this qualifies as a lot of men. Sex is a little more of a compulsion to men then it is to women, and porn fits nicely into that category.

[Jersey Shortie]

Here’s the thing about your post Rorocher..all that would be fine and dandy in a perfect world. But the truth is, we don’t live in a perfect world. We have equally imperfect men as we do women. We encourage and even make excuses for men and their porn use, yet we somehow expect women to be more highly evolved then men to just accept their imperfect mate and his continued porn use. That's not fair or right

 

When men use porn, they are only submitting to their most base instincts. It’s not a compliment on them as men, and it’s not a compliment on women. We all inherently understand that. That is why we have no respect for porn stars and why men hide and lie about it. It’s women taking money for sex and it’s men paying for sex and both are pretty pathetic and sad. Lets be fair here in our comparisons. You can’t excuse porn and be so understanding of men submitting to their most base urges but condemn women for doing the same when it’s all about us acting on our natural instincts.

 

I'm not sure if other reasons hold any weight though. A woman who takes care of herself, body, mind and spirit will have no reason to be jealous of other women, least of all porn babes. If you're the kind of woman who constantly develops herself, her character, her intelligence, her kindness, her empathy, exercises, eats right, etc., you'll be able to hold your own among other women

 

And yet, despite a woman developing all these wonderful characteristics that I agree are truly important, they will still be left with husbands who want to stare at 20 year olds with implants having sex. You have to consider the message men are giving women with their porn use.

 

So whether a woman develops this character or not, men will still look at porn. If you expect men to show a favorability to porn, and women to not be effected by it and instead should raise above it and develop more deep qualities, while excusing men’s shallow drive for porn, it's an uneven playing field

 

It'll be utterly ridiculous for you to feel threatened by some chick who lives on having her face showered with semen by a gang of douchebags. If anything, you'll feel sorry for stripper and pornstars, I surely do and they amuse me more than anything, just like freakshows.

 

Sure they may be younger and their boobs perkier but since when does anyone want to be the sum of body parts alone? Give them another 10 years and let gravity do it's job.

 

It is a freakshow. But it’s a freak show that turns on a lot of men out there. God knows why. Men who make money, men who are poor, men with families, men with daughters and son’s and women that love them…..men with women that don’t love them…. It’s a freak show but it still turns men on. And real everyday women want to be able to turn men on. Real everyday women want to feel beautiful and loved and special. And porn is the opposite of that. Alot of porn is quite desrespectful to women. To be honest, I don't want to be with a man that is thinking about what a douchbag a girl is in a movie while he is getting off to her at the same time. You shouldn’t condemn these women for being differently effected by porn and try to shame them while you tell them to be more understanding to the men about it.

 

As for your comment about waiting another 10 years until gravity hits the current porn starlets..what then? Then it’s a new set of porn starlets..and a new set…and a new set..and the girls stay the same age but real men and women get older. And it goes on and on into a bottomless pit that never gets fed. What does that say about women? What does that say about men? Why shouldn’t that create insecurity in women? Since men are very obviously saying that that is what they find most attractive and no woman can measure up to that. In the next 20 years, these men can masturbate to images of the porn starlets of yesterday daughters. Look at all the porn out there about school girls, babysitters, father's friends....and tell me again why women shouldn't feel insecure when their men are giving a very clear and obvious message about what they desire and want. You expect women to be super human while you excuse and justify men's more human behavior.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do hope he's thinking about me, but what he's really thinking at that moment is irrelevant as long as he's with me and giving me his 100% while making love.

 

How can anyone give someone else 100% if they are mentally with someone else even if they are physically with you?

 

I think we as women need to reliquish control, let go, breathe. Porn is NOT a new phenomenon in our society, it's as old as dirt and chances are your SO has been dabbling in this since he was a teenager,

 

 

True! But the porn that is out there today, and the amount of it that is available to men, isn’t like the old days anymore.

 

]I do agree that women need to relinquish some control. Sometimes men need to relinquish their lust. Men also have to do their job and provide an environment that makes the woman start to feel safe to do that. And quite honestly, sometimes porn just doesn’t. Can’t really blame them. Porn calls women names and sets unreal standards for beauty and sexuality. It’s not exactly the kind of thing that puts faith in men or women. And it's not the thing that sounds a foundation of trust about what men really think about women.

 

 

 

You are missing the point. You could be the Queen of Sheba or Giselle Bunchen and your SO will still, discreetly or not, notice other women, fantasize about them or still want to sleep with them

 

And that is part of the reason I am a little bitter with men personally. No matter what you do for a man, what you give him, what is most important to men is variety. It’s discouraging. And it doesn’t make you feel like wanting to get close to men since that’s the kind of stuff men pull. You can be a terrific spouse that loves your man, that treats him right and takes care of him, but he will be turning his head for the next 20 year old that walks by. That's all it takes. So why should we bother doing anything for men? What's the point?

 

This is ingrained in their genetic make-up, no use trying to change that.

 

And what about what is ingrained to a woman’s genetic make up? Wanting a monogamous partner that loves and values her? Again, you ask of women what you don’t ask of men.

 

What I'm saying is that if you take better care of yourself as a person, and are satisfied with the calibre of person you are, then you wouldn't need to compare yourself to or feel threatened by the other women who happen to catch your SO's eye, be it porn babes or anyone else.

 

To be honest, I don't see why a woman shouldn't be threatened since we all know attraction is the first step of interest in members of the opposite sex.

 

You don't have to try to morph into salmon or chicken to keep your man's interest, you just remain

 

And he just keeps on looking at all the options while you stand on the sidelines.

 

 

 

JackJack:

 

Some say the women have a problem with it due to lack of self esteem or insecurity. That might be the case sometimes, but the same could be said for men who induldge in it all the time too. Maybe they are insecure and weak, and looking for an escape to not deal with real everyday life issues, and looking at something that can't look back (like porn) makes them feel better, temporaily. Same could be said for men who go to escorts and strippers. They are probably weak and insecure so they pay someone else to make them feel better. Once that monitor or TV is shut off, whatever they are not wanting to deal with in RL will still be there.

 

 

I was going to say basically the same thing. For men, porn can be an insecurity as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I have said in other posts before on this topic, porn is pretty boring to me, I find it meaningless and dull.

 

 

I wish more men were like this.

 

The fact is the OP sets expectations for women that she does not set for men. Women are suppose to be strong and learn to deal and get over it while we are suppose to excuse men for being weak and pandering to porn.

[redfathom]

The fact is the OP sets expectations for women that she does not set for men. Women are suppose to be strong and learn to deal and get over it while we are suppose to excuse men for being weak and pandering to porn.

 

Agreed, I don't like the double standards. If you want to talk about basic instincts. Yes, men are predisposed to want to breed for the sake of the species and woman get to decide who with. Now, as a woman and a species we are supposed to choose mates we feel will be providers. Do we go out and find mates that also fantasize about "providing" for other females, our competition, no. Because that is not what we are predisposed to do. Well not all of us.

 

It's survival, what happens when my mate wants to provide for someone else, that means I get dismissed and have to now fend for myself and family. Sorry I feel that it's only normal for woman to be upset about porn.

 

I think some porn in relationships is okay, as long as both partners and agree and both partners are honest.

[Woggle]

Men just like to look at nude women and women need to get over that. Sometimes it is an easy release for men and a strip club can be a good way for men to bond and hang out together. I think that some women just have a problem with everything men enjoy though. If we do something that is fun for us they think we are being selfish and not respecting their feelings.

[porter218]

Men just like to look at nude women and women need to get over that. Sometimes it is an easy release for men and a strip club can be a good way for men to bond and hang out together. I think that some women just have a problem with everything men enjoy though. If we do something that is fun for us they think we are being selfish and not respecting their feelings.

Sure...absolutely...as long as their gf/W is OK with that. Otherwise they have no business together and need to find partners that share the same views.

[Rorocher]

Sure porn is degrading, I certainly wouldn't subject myself to getting gang banged or having my face sprayed with semen so yes in that sense it is degrading to women but remember these women..most of them anyway, also consented to that treatment, in exchange for money or whatever. Fortunately for us, we live in a free country, what two CONSENTING adults choose to do with themselves is their business as long as no one else is getting hurt.

 

But Porn is also arousing, naturally. I say this as a woman who watches porn and gets aroused. Or watches a particularly steamy romantic scene in a movie and gets warm all over. So maybe that is why I relate better to men view porn MODERATELY and sensibly. Who use it as an arousal tool, just as one would use toys or wear lingerie. We don't analyze it or pick it neatly apart so it makes perfect sense. We're not comparing how better looking the pornstars are to our mates, we are not fantasizing about the actors or wishing we are with them, we are not trying to understand the plot or the motivation of porn stars. It's not an epic movie or a blockbuster love story. We are just watching two bodies joining together in a sexual animalistic way and I'm sorry, that sends certain signals to one's sex organs. I don't know why it does, it just does. It makes me want to have sex. If the SO is not around, I take care of myself.

 

And I don't think I'm the only woman who gets aroused by porn, I doubt I'm even in the minority.

 

I don't expect anyone to be superhuman about porn. All I'm saying is if you don't have a legitimate gripe and your SO indulges in moderate use and is not neglecting you or making you feel inferior. Please pick your battles and find something else to fight about. Isn't marriage difficult already as it is without going to bat at every perceived slight? So you take one for the team this time and let the guy enjoy some harmless fun and on the next issue, let your SO take one for the team.

 

Once again, excessive use which leads to neglect is a whole different ballgame. You have a different dilemma on your hands with that. And just to note, chat rooms, cybersex, anything interactive is NOT garden variety porn, and fall outside my argument.

[Woggle]

Sure...absolutely...as long as their gf/W is OK with that. Otherwise they have no business together and need to find partners that share the same views.

 

This is true but I would never be with a controlling woman.

[JackJack]

"I wish more men were like this".

 

 

Thanks JS. I think for me, its because I had seen so much of it when I was younger. All kinds pretty much, so over the years it just got to the point to where it was boring. I think part of it for me too, was I grew up and grew more inlove with my wife and the relationship we have. I place far more importance on that, than watching who is banging who in a video.

 

I'm not saying I never watch it anymore. Both my wife and I do together sometimes. I think one reason that she is ok with it, is one, we watch it together, and two, she knows how much I cherish, and love, and respect her. If she said to me right now, "Jack, please lets not watch porn anymore." I would say, "Ok, no problem." Why? Because porn is not as important to me than a real human relationship.

 

I do however, feel if there are people with real true sexual addictions, then that is possibley harder to break free from.

[orangesean]

IME, porn (in and of itself) is not the threat to women. It's all about what the man DOES with it. The real threat lies inside the man who abuses it and turns it into a weapon against the women in his life.

 

Just quoting this because Openbook said it best in the smallest amount of words.

 

I mean I can see how a lot of guys go way too far with porn and have SOs that enable that and I see how some guys just use it casually to almost none and their SOs overreacting as if he were cheating and betraying nonstop.

 

If the sex is good, your man thinks you are hot stuff, and still occasionally looks at porn, I'd say it's normal. I don't really know any guy who doesn't like to look at other naked women one way or another, myself included. Does that work like cheating in the male brain? I think not. Should that interfere with someone's sex life? I think not. Masturbation in my opinion doesn't necessarily lead to flacid penises. In my case, and some things I've read, doing sexual things a lot, whether having sex or masturbating, leads only to wanting more sex and masturbation. One or the other, depends what's around. But that's all my opinion and personal theory.

 

But I think men who ignore their wives, look at gross fake women with implants, fake tan, and platinum hair have problems. Men who pay for porn in this day and age with the wonders of the internet have a problem. Men who look at disgusting stuff like pedophilia, beastiality, trannies, rape, and whatever other sick stuff have problems. (In my opinion again, no offense intended)

 

It's really up to both parties to be honest with their partner and to tell what they like and don't like.

[redfathom]

This is true but I would never be with a controlling woman.

 

And we would never be with a man who did not respect our feelings, even if he did not agree with them.

[JackJack]

Men just like to look at nude women and women need to get over that. Sometimes it is an easy release for men and a strip club can be a good way for men to bond and hang out together. I think that some women just have a problem with everything men enjoy though. If we do something that is fun for us they think we are being selfish and not respecting their feelings.

 

So if a woman said to you, "Women like to look a nude men and they just need to get over that." It would be ok with you? Would you feel that way if your wife said that to you Woggle?

 

Strip clubs are good ways for men to hang out and bond? Sure, but so is hanging out playing a sport together basketball, golf etc. I'm glad me and my buddies can hang out, drink a beer and bond over hot wings at my house while the ladies are out getting their toenails done.

 

BTW Woggle, you said if you do something fun they think you're being selfish, does your wife think you're being selfish and not respecting her feelings when you do something fun? Mine doesn't.

[Rorocher]

The fact is the OP sets expectations for women that she does not set for men. Women are suppose to be strong and learn to deal and get over it while we are suppose to excuse men for being weak and pandering to porn.

 

 

Nope, same expectations for both. I don't think it's fair to have a problem with something ...anything relatively harmless that your SO does, something he OR SHE enjoys that you don't, to go up to him or her and say, I want you to stop doing it. She asks why, and you say, I don't know, I just don't like it, so stop. End of discussion.

 

Remember it's a marriage, it's a partnership. TWO people are involved and in a lot of cases will have to compromise and meet in the middle. In other cases where compromise is impossible, neither gets their way. And in the remaining cases, one person takes one for the team to make the other person happy and the favor is returned in the future.

 

The same way a man can easily stop watching porn when his wife says she doesn't want him to IS THE SAME WAY a woman can indulge him if it's something he likes to watch occasionally that doesn't interfere with their intimacy. It is up to the two of them to decide who gets their way this time. It's a marriage, both parties involved have legitimate feelings that shoud BOTH be recognized.

[trubella]

So what about women who enjoy watching porn? Those of us that don't watch it because our SO watches it or because we want to please him. We watch it because the sight of naked people having sex is arousing and sends blood rushing to our nether regions?

I masturbate regularly and usually desire a visual aid or I read an erotic novel to get me going. Do we also have a propensity to abuse women..or men?

 

Or does this "pathological slipery slope" only apply to men?

 

i'd like to know the answer to this too, i am a woman who watches porn sometimes and its never led me to be abusive towards someone else. i just like to watch occasionally and thats that. no motive behind it..