PORN..what's really the deal?

[Jersey Shortie]

You missed (or ignored) the point. Despite your interesting interpretive ability (I like how you made the money-oriented "Being Selfish or Greedy" a porn issue ), it's a pretty specific list.

 

Thanks for the compliment.

 

I consider porn a type of selfish and greedy outlet. I think being selfish and greedy can extend to more then just money matters.

 

I'm not ignoring your point or missing it. Most of those listed could relate to porn use in a marriage. Perhaps you ignore all the women that come on here hurt and confused. This is by far not the only message board that women come to to talk about their hurt and confusion about their man's porn use.

 

 

 

I found many others just like it. None of them mentioned "My Husband Ignores Me For Porn" as a common problem.

 

I've read alot of articles that have said that porn use is on the rise and this probablem is more common then ever.

 

 

But are all or most or many relationships tetering on the edge of porn fueled destruction? Are most women's psyches under attack from porn driven self-esteem issues? Are most men the disfunctional scum you seem to enjoy describing? It's sad to assume that you think that to be the case. Your world is very different from mine...

 

Maybe not most Mr. Lucky, but perhaps almost most or half. How many men use porn in conjecture with their real life relationship? I don't know one woman that doesn't struggle with/or has struggled with body self-esteem issues. Breast implants becamse in the rise when porn hit mainstream. Merely one example.

 

I never said men were disfunctional scum so I am confused why you force that on me as my message. This brings me back to my conclusion that by attacking porn, men by default feel as if they are being attacked. If that is the case, then maybe porn as a bigger importance in men's lives then they even like to admit to themselves. And I am sure our worlds are very different. But then again, you aren't a mid-20s girl trying to have relationships with men that grew up with porn a mouse-click away.

[Jersey Shortie]

Sure he prefers a younger body, we can't always control what physically turns us on but marriage doesn't have room for selfishness, you won't always get what you prefer. You somehow find a way to make do with what you have and find happinesss in it.

 

Maybe the real key isn't learning to "make do with what you have", but learning to appreciate the value of what you have.

 

 

Rainfall, it's actually natural, that is why people are inclined to do it. It is a natural urge, especially for men. That is what testosterone does to you. Men, mostly have to fight that urge a lot of the times.

 

I have alot of natural urges too though. I have estrogen.

 

When I am in a relationship, I use a little thing called self control. I was recently hit on by a very handsome, professional and married man. If he was single I would have been open to him. It would have been very easy to get invovled with him but I used self control and knew that I would never want to be in the other woman's spot and declined his very tempting offer.

 

Just because he wants to do it doesn't mean he will do it. That is what separates us from animals, we don't succumb to every want, need or desire. We just find harmless outlets for our wants.

 

For many women, porn isn't a harmless outlet. Perhaps for you it is, but there are quite a few women that feel differently. It's easy to not succumb to temptation when you use other outlets to fullfill yourself....is that really self control when you do that?

 

E.g, I want to be a millionaire but I don't go rob a bank, I go to my office every day and put in a honest day's work.

 

Personally, I don't understand how work fullfills a desire to be a millionaire.

 

 

 

The urge to dictate your SO's fantasies reeks of control and control stems from insecurity issues.

 

An SO's desire to have fantasies about every other female he crosses path with doesn't set up the foundation of "security".

 

 

When your SO doesn't feel safe coming to you with his/her issues, concerns, fantasies, because you are going to make it about you and throw a tantrum.

 

And as a woman, why should I feel safe in a relationship where he is fantazing and indirectly seeking out other women? Maybe getting upset with your man doesn't make him feel safe coming to you, but for alot of women when men use porn and other outlets to concern themselves with other women doesn't exactly make women feel safe coming to him or very open to him either.

[annieo]

He's had a series of back operations over the years with little success. He's over 55, the "magic age" at which even social security wouldn't expect a worker of this age to retrain and neither will a divorce court judge according to the lawyers I've consulted. In fact,even the suggestion of such could result in him being given an even bigger portion of our assets and a larger spousal support award as I'd look like a heartless witch.

 

As to the rest of it.. reading it here in typed words makes it appear as if he's arrogant, I think he was more shocked, offended and angry and that his tone was reflective of that.My husband's initial reactions to things that upset him have always been rather blustery and defensive in tone and he always usually comes round later for calmer discussion on things so I'm not getting my feathers ruffled over his tone

 

I also suspect that his viewpoints on what activities and attitudes are suitable for middle aged women point to him having an even larger problem with his own aging than I'd suspected and this is what does get my feathers ruffled and deeply concerns me. What good is a life partner if you can't share fear together as we prepare for our walk into the long dark night?

 

I'm not sure where to go with all this from here.. I'll have to think on it.

 

I guess what strikes me as arrogant is that he would say that he could "service" you, but only given notice and not too often. Is he that talented between the sheets? If my h said anything like that to me, I'd laugh my way into someone else's bed.

 

I think you are spot on about his own fear of aging. Classic late mid-life crisis (soon to be dirty old man) behavior, all of the rampant girl-watching.

 

In the movie, "Moonstruck" Olympia Dukakis' character wants to know "Why men chase women?", as her own husband is having an affair with a tart. The answer: because they fear death. If you've never seen it, rent it today. Very enlightening and funny film.

[Rorocher]

I have alot of natural urges too though. I have estrogen.

 

When I am in a relationship, I use a little thing called self control. I was recently hit on by a very handsome, professional and married man. If he was single I would have been open to him. It would have been very easy to get invovled with him but I used self control and knew that I would never want to be in the other woman's spot and declined his very tempting offer. .

 

He's using a little thing called self control too, which is why he's not going out there sleeping with anything that moves or that he fantasizes about. His thoughts on the other hand, OUR thoughts aka fantasies, on the other hand is a bit harder to control unless you're God. Actions are what we can get a handle on. You were attracted to the guy that hit on you, were you not? you founmd him very handsome so much so that if he were single, you would consider getting involved with him, but you didn't act on it. You had a thought, you just didn't act on it.

 

 

 

For many women, porn isn't a harmless outlet. Perhaps for you it is, but there are quite a few women that feel differently. It's easy to not succumb to temptation when you use other outlets to fullfill yourself....is that really self control when you do that?.

 

That IS self control,we are human, we are imperfect and fallible even you. We sometimes need "crutches" ...for lack of a better word to help us along. There are natural urges that we fight every day, needing a little help to fight those urges doesn't make you evil, it makes you human.

Do you know there are actually men with such high levels of testoterone that sex is constantly constantly on their mind? Have you ever had a shot of testosterone because I have and oooh boy, it leaves you with a raw sexual animal urge that has you bouncing off the walls. I took it for an illness and my SO was a tired man that week, everytime I saw him, I wanted to jump his bones. Imagine walking around with that your whole life, and still being able to maintain a monogamous relationship. And you tell me men don't have self control. I don't know about you but I know I don't want my SO poking at me every single moment a sexual thought crosses his mind and there are times I'm just too tired or not in the mood, I tell him to go take care of himself. If he needs a little visual stimulation to take care of himself, why begrudge him that.

 

 

 

 

A SO's desire to have fantasies about every other female he crosses path with doesn't set up the foundation of "security".

 

Once again, you can't be inside his head. Short of covering his face everytime he walks out of the house so God forbid he looks at and admires another woman, you're pretty much **** out of luck. Women don't have to be naked and having sex to be fantasized about. It could be a waitress, in her dirty apron with a sweat covered face who catchs your SO eye. Are you ok with that? as long as she's not naked?

Trying to control the uncontrollable is breeding ground for frustration...YOUR frustration. Not his. You are most likely not going to be the most beautiful woman your SO has ever seen or met, no matter how desperately you want to be. It's impossible. There are 6 billion people on this earth. Resenting that fact is a bit silly, don't you think?

 

 

 

 

And as a woman, why should I feel safe in a relationship where he is fantazing and indirectly seeking out other women? Maybe getting upset with your man doesn't make him feel safe coming to you, but for alot of women when men use porn and other outlets to concern themselves with other women doesn't exactly make women feel safe coming to him or very open to him either.

 

Your attitude of one-upmanship, "what has he done for me lately", is a detriment to a successful relationship. And the more we actually discuss this thread, it shows more and more that your issue with porn is actually insecurity, not so much the degradation of women that you were advocating. Security comes from within yourself more than it comes from your relationship. A woman OR MAN who is not secure in who they are as a person will have problems getting that security from any where else. Be it a relationship or a job or from family.

[Jersey Shortie]

In the movie, "Moonstruck" Olympia Dukakis' character wants to know "Why men chase women?", as her own husband is having an affair with a tart. The answer: because they fear death. If you've never seen it, rent it today. Very enlightening and funny film.

 

That movie is great!

 

You were attracted to the guy that hit on you, were you not? you founmd him very handsome so much so that if he were single, you would consider getting involved with him, but you didn't act on it. You had a thought, you just didn't act on it.

 

I'm single. When I am with a man, I don't need to think about other men.

 

 

We sometimes need "crutches" ...

 

And sometimes people don't use self-control. Especially in our instant gratification society. We make excuses and justifications on why it's okay to do something to make ourselves feel better.

 

 

There are natural urges that we fight every day, needing a little help to fight those urges doesn't make you evil, it makes you human.

 

Absolutely. But that argument works both ways. Feeling insecure is natural and human but I don't see you justifying that.

 

Do you know there are actually men with such high levels of testoterone that sex is constantly constantly on their mind?

 

And I have estrogen. I don't understand your point accept you give more excuses and justfy men's behavior for the fact that they are men and you expect women to rise above their own hormone level.

 

 

Imagine walking around with that your whole life, and still being able to maintain a monogamous relationship. And you tell me men don't have self control.

 

No one is forcing men to have monogamous relationships. The fact that men get into them and then say they need variety is unfair. Its the fact that men want their cake and to eat it too and put in the least effort to have both.

 

If he needs a little visual stimulation to take care of himself, why begrudge him that.

 

Why begrudge a woman feeling safe and secure and monogamous in a relationship?

 

Once again, you can't be inside his head.

 

I don't remember saying that you could. What does this have to do with what I said?

 

Short of covering his face everytime he walks out of the house so God forbid he looks at and admires another woman, you're pretty much **** out of luck.

 

I don't expect him to never admire another woman. I expect self control. But it seems that you are promoting indulgence to any little whim and feeling a man feels for another woman, even in his head. We prize physical control, why not mental? Both are important. Contrary to what you said earlier, we are able to have mental control. Is it hard? Of course but that doesn't mean you give up.

 

Trying to control the uncontrollable is breeding ground for frustration...YOUR frustration. Not his. You are most likely not going to be the most beautiful woman your SO has ever seen or met, no matter how desperately you want to be. It's impossible. There are 6 billion people on this earth. Resenting that fact is a bit silly, don't you think?

 

Nope, I don't think it's silly at all. I think I have the right to be the most important and beautiful woman to my SO alone. I am not asking for the admiration of thousands of men. I am asking one man to be true and loyal to me. I don't think it's too much to ask.

 

Your attitude of one-upmanship, "what has he done for me lately", is a detriment to a successful relationship. And the more we actually discuss this thread, it shows more and more that your issue with porn is actually insecurity, not so much the degradation of women that you were advocating. Security comes from within yourself more than it comes from your relationship. A woman OR MAN who is not secure in who they are as a person will have problems getting that security from any where else. Be it a relationship or a job or from family.

 

My one-upmanship attutide? You mean the attutide that I don't want to be taken advantage of or be in a relationship where I always have to play fiddle with the thousand of x images of other women he is fantizing about? There is a line between giving and taking and doormat. You have an attitude where women's needs and wants are not very important and where women should pander and cater to that of whatever her husband feels and thinks and be understanding about it. I have yet to see you say men should do the same or be understanding about a woman's natural feelings in relation to porn.

 

And let it be clear, I have NEVER said that part of my issue with porn wasn't insecurity. I have been 100% open about that and never claimed otherwise. But don't be one of thsoe people that try to make it only about that or to think that because there is very naturally insecurity, that it deserve to be invalidated. You preach about how men have a weakness and they need to fantasize and that is natural. You fail to acknowledge that insecurity is a very natural feeling as well. My issue with porn as always also been the degradation of women in it.

 

I find it ironic that you make excuses and justifications for men's more base and weak feelings, such as sexual infidilety, but you think women need to be more highly evovled to rise above their own weak and base feelings, such as insecurity. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Being insecure is no less unnatural then getting excited over other people then our SO. And is infact natures response to a threat.

[The Collector]

Being in a relationship and looking at porn is like having your cake and looking at pictures of other cakes too.

 

For many if not most women, as long as he doesn't try and eat the other cake he can look as much as he wants.

[Rorocher]

I'm single. When I am with a man, I don't need to think about other men...

 

Being in a relationship doesn't mean that all thoughts of other men or women will be forever banished. They are FLEETING, INCONSEQUENTIAL thoughts, hellooo??? You watch TV, some guy with a nicely chisseled face, six pack abs, playing volleyball with sweat dripping off him ever so nicely, doesn't make you nod in admiration??? even when you are in a relationship?? if you say no, I'd find that very suspicious. Do you then proceed to think of that image through the day or think of pursuing that man? no. It was a fleeting thought. Don't make it anymore than it is. Oy!

 

 

 

 

And sometimes people don't use self-control. Especially in our instant gratification society. We make excuses and justifications on why it's okay to do something to make ourselves feel better. .

 

 

Yes sometimes people don't use self control, let's gather them together and burn them at the stake because they can't control every thought in their head 100% of the time. You are setting unreasonable standards for human beings. Standards that you yourself can't live up to unless you are inhuman.

 

 

 

Absolutely. But that argument works both ways. Feeling insecure is natural and human but I don't see you justifying that..

 

And I have estrogen. I don't understand your point accept you give more excuses and justfy men's behavior for the fact that they are men and you expect women to rise above their own hormone level.

 

Oh I understand feeling insecure alright. It is human and it is natural, for both women and men for that matter. But I don't defend it in this instance because it is unjustifiable. Feeling insecure at your SO's fatasies that is neatly trapped in his head, of all trivial things in this world, is assinine. Remember we did discuss men who don't use porn in moderation, men who take it to the extreme and use it to punish their SO, like Soserious's husband. That insecurity on her part, I can justify and defend. Blowing a gasket because your SO looked at porn once a week, masturbated and still made some sweet sweet love to you 4 times that week, is silly and juvenile, and that, to me, is unjustifiable. Estrogen is not synonymous with insecurity. You are not automatically insecure because you are a woman. Come on, as an advocate of women's rights, you have to give women a little more credit than that.

 

 

No one is forcing men to have monogamous relationships. The fact that men get into them and then say they need variety is unfair. Its the fact that men want their cake and to eat it too and put in the least effort to have both.

 

You are alluding to cheating here, and that is not the topic of discussion. They didn't choose to need variety. They just do, they are hunters by nature. They CONTROL themselves by being monogamous. Wanting their cake and eating it too is having a wife at home and 3 mistresses outside. They are looking at images on TV, since when is this considered cheating?

 

I don't expect him to never admire another woman. I expect self control. But it seems that you are promoting indulgence to any little whim and feeling a man feels for another woman, even in his head. We prize physical control, why not mental? Both are important. Contrary to what you said earlier, we are able to have mental control. Is it hard? Of course but that doesn't mean you give up.

 

So define the kind of self control you want in this instance? He walks into a room full of supermodels, he's not suppose to think they are beautiful? I don't think I understand what you mean by mental control.

 

 

Nope, I don't think it's silly at all. I think I have the right to be the most important and beautiful woman to my SO alone. I am not asking for the admiration of thousands of men. I am asking one man to be true and loyal to me. I don't think it's too much to ask.

 

Actually you don't have a right to be the most physically beautiful woman to your SO. Important maybe, but not the most beautiful because you just simply can't be. You want a right to dictate what his eyes can see, observe and what his brain can process? How is that possible? We are not talking about the sum of you here, you know, your brains, intelligence, generosity, warmth, which tends to increase beauty. We are talking solely about physical beauty. There are others out there who are more beautiful, that is a fact, not an opinion. But he chose you, that in itself is the comfort, he is with you of all the gazillion other MORE beautiful women in the world. And he does admire you. Admiring others doesn't mean he admires you any less or doesn't admire you at all.

 

 

My one-upmanship attutide? You mean the attutide that I don't want to be taken advantage of or be in a relationship where I always have to play fiddle with the thousand of x images of other women he is fantizing about? There is a line between giving and taking and doormat. You have an attitude where women's needs and wants are not very important and where women should pander and cater to that of whatever her husband feels and thinks and be understanding about it. I have yet to see you say men should do the same or be understanding about a woman's natural feelings in relation to porn.

 

JS, I'm curious, have you ever been married? if not, what is your longest relationship? Because I'm approaching this from a married woman's perspective, 13 years and counting. Knowing full well that it takes effort and a whole lot of attitude adjustment to make a relationship work. The attitude I have is that BOTH people's needs and wants are important. BOTH compromise, BOTH give up certain things to make the other happy. BOTH pick their battles and don't always summon their dukes at every issue. I don't have an attitude that the woman has to be the doormat catering to her man's EVERY need, I certainly don't to cater to my man's every need. However, I have the attitude that the woman doesn't get to play the princess whose every whim has to be catered to by her man. If a woman's feelings were so NATURALLY adverse to porn, then why are some women ok with it and some are not? why do some women get so insecure at minimal usage of porn and some women couldn't give a rat's ass about it? Is it that some of us are unnatural then? or we are not actually female, we just have the organs?

[Mr. Lucky]

I never said men were disfunctional scum so I am confused why you force that on me as my message. This brings me back to my conclusion that by attacking porn, men by default feel as if they are being attacked. If that is the case, then maybe porn as a bigger importance in men's lives then they even like to admit to themselves. And I am sure our worlds are very different. But then again, you aren't a mid-20s girl trying to have relationships with men that grew up with porn a mouse-click away.

You're right Jersey, I've never been a girl and my mid-20's days are long behind me . And I have no problem with you attacking porn just as I'd have no problem with you attacking the manipulative use of sex as practiced by minority of women. Where you go seriously off base - and consistently so - is when you extrapolate that model to disparage the entire gender. It's just wrong...

 

Mr. Lucky

[redfathom]

Rorocher, you started a thread about being in a sexless marriage. Where you are the one withholding sex because you view your man as weak. Do you watch these porno's expecting your man to take charge like the actors in these films? If you do, maybe that is the problem, you have been doing a little too much fantasizing...

[redfathom]

This is funny:

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26153773/?GT1=43001

[PandorasBox]

This is funny:

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26153773/?GT1=43001

 

 

:laugh:Man that is pityful!

[Rorocher]

Rorocher, you started a thread about being in a sexless marriage. Where you are the one withholding sex because you view your man as weak. Do you watch these porno's expecting your man to take charge like the actors in these films? If you do, maybe that is the problem, you have been doing a little too much fantasizing...

 

 

I am not in a sexless marriage. In that thread, I said I have been in a sexless relationship, withholding sex and I stated my reasons why. This relationship was pre-marriage, many moons ago.

 

This boyfriend that I viewed as weak wasn't anything to do with his performance in bed...well a bit because he just wasn't a good kisser. He tried to swallow my face each time:laugh:. He was viewed as weak because he was very clingy, very agreeable, even at his own expense and would sob like a little baby when anyone hurt his feelings. Be it me, family or coworkers. So totally different scenario and situation.

 

I don't expect my SO to perform like a pornstar are you kidding? I don't want someone jabbing at my privates for 45 minutes straight, ouch?. I don't expect my SO to be as well endowed as a porn star. Some of them are too big in my opinion and my SO's size satisfies me. I don't expect him to look anything or act like a pornstar. He is handsome and sexy just the way he is. I have no desire to be with a pornstar or anyone else I may fantasize about. I don't automatically think my SO is less of anything just because I think Brad Pitt is attractive. Matter of fact, me watching porn has zilch to do with my SO. I don't watch it for the plot lines or anything of the sort. I can separate the fantasy from reality with no effort whatsoever. And I don't think this makes me superhuman either, a lot of people can.

[grogster]

I am not in a sexless marriage. In that thread, I said I have been in a sexless relationship, withholding sex and I stated my reasons why. This relationship was pre-marriage, many moons ago.

 

This boyfriend that I viewed as weak wasn't anything to do with his performance in bed...well a bit because he just wasn't a good kisser. He tried to swallow my face each time:laugh:. He was viewed as weak because he was very clingy, very agreeable, even at his own expense and would sob like a little baby when anyone hurt his feelings. Be it me, family or coworkers. So totally different scenario and situation.

 

I don't expect my SO to perform like a pornstar are you kidding? I don't want someone jabbing at my privates for 45 minutes straight, ouch?. I don't expect my SO to be as well endowed as a porn star. Some of them are too big in my opinion and my SO's size satisfies me. I don't expect him to look anything or act like a pornstar. He is handsome and sexy just the way he is. I have no desire to be with a pornstar or anyone else I may fantasize about. I don't automatically think my SO is less of anything just because I think Brad Pitt is attractive. Matter of fact, me watching porn has zilch to do with my SO. I don't watch it for the plot lines or anything of the sort. I can separate the fantasy from reality with no effort whatsoever. And I don't think this makes me superhuman either, a lot of people can.

 

Darn,that means we're not compatible, Rorocher.

 

Seriously, some folks get porn, others don't. To those that don't, you have my sympathies.

[redfathom]

I just think there are so many sterotypes out there, men should be strong, woman should be always pretty and sweet. I mean who decided these things to be truth and why are all of us judged on them. Each person is who they are, right or wrong by anyone persons standards it should not matter. The same goes for this topic, your opinion is neither right or wrong, just like mine. Which makes me curious why you started this thread to begin with...

 

I didn't realize porn movies still had plot's. Any I have seen have been wam, bam, thank you ma'am.

[redfathom]

Besides Rorocher, Grogster penis made of adamantium...that would be most unpleasant but always at attention...?

[grogster]

Besides Rorocher, Grogster penis made of adamantium...that would be most unpleasant but always at attention...?

 

 

Red, even Wolverine needs love, sometimes.

[Rorocher]

I just think there are so many sterotypes out there, men should be strong, woman should be always pretty and sweet. I mean who decided these things to be truth and why are all of us judged on them. Each person is who they are, right or wrong by anyone persons standards it should not matter. The same goes for this topic, your opinion is neither right or wrong, just like mine. Which makes me curious why you started this thread to begin with...

 

I didn't realize porn movies still had plot's. Any I have seen have been wam, bam, thank you ma'am.

 

I do agree, way too many stereotypes. Some that we unconsciously buy into because we were socialized that way. So yes blame society there, I surely do. We all have a right to our own opinions, I've said it before, everyone reserves a right to rule their household however way they want to, pro-porn, neutral or anti-porn.

 

But spirited discussions are also nice to have, hence the existence of messageboards like this. We just come to air our views, what we go home to do is something else. Another fantasy vs reality..

 

There is a massive amount of porn out there, all very different in a lot of different ways. Hell, we can argue that a movie, with a graphic sex scene, tetters on the edge of porn and a lot of them are getting that way these days.

[redfathom]

Red, even Wolverine needs love, sometimes.

If I was not married, I would soooo love me some Wolverine.

[Jersey Shortie]

Being in a relationship and looking at porn is like having your cake and looking at pictures of other cakes too.

 

For many if not most women, as long as he doesn't try and eat the other cake he can look as much as he wants.

 

Yes he can. He is a grown adult. I have never told anyone I was with they couldn't do this or couldn't do that. Doesn't mean I wasn'ting hurting from his actions. And it doesn't mean that there aren't alot of women out there in the same spot.

 

It all works out great for him. It's just unfortunate that it's his SO that gets to suffer for it. One has to ask themselves why a person who was just as concerned as looking and enjoying other women as often as he enjoyed his own SO, why he is even bothering to be in a monogomous relationships. Why? It's farily obvious men are just as concerned with the women they don't have as the one they do have. If men don't prize loyatly why are they living a sham and then turning around and telling their partner they committed to they need other women indirectly through porn? Could this be a factor of being greedy and selfish?

 

It's fairly obvious that most men only prize mongomy when it's their partner being monogmous to them and want justification for their own desire for other people.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Being in a relationship doesn't mean that all thoughts of other men or women will be forever banished.

 

I don't remember ever saying that it did. I just remember saying that people don't exercise self-control. We live in a country that is pretty gluttonous all around. From food to shopping to yes, even sex. It's just funny that we justfy our sexual appetites to be rather gluttonous and yet we condemn other appetites such as food for being over gluttonous. It's rather intersting and screwed up actually.

 

Yes sometimes people don't use self control, let's gather them together and burn them at the stake because they can't control every thought in their head 100% of the time. You are setting unreasonable standards for human beings. Standards that you yourself can't live up to unless you are inhuman.

 

I don't expect anyone to do something right 100% of the time. Hence, your claim that I am setting up unreasonable standards is a falsehood.

 

It is human and it is natural, for both women and men for that matter. But I don't defend it in this instance because it is unjustifiable.

 

Why is one hormone more justifiable then another hormone? Scientically, that is what it comes down to. You set a standard where you make excuses and justify hormones for one set, but then feel that something that is just as hormone drive and natural is unjustifiable? That makes no logical sense.

 

Feeling insecure at your SO's fatasies that is neatly trapped in his head, of all trivial things in this world, is assinine.

 

When a man is taking the physical action to notice other women and too seek them out to masturbate to, he is taking a very real action directed to another woman. Action speaks louder then words don't you agree? Being insecure about your man seeking out other women, even indirectly in porn, is a natural response to the threat of other women in the picture. Just as the brain does not distingush between the image of a woman on screen that turns a man on and a real woman in the flesh and blood, why would you expect the brain to distingush between the inherent natural threat of the interest of a mate in another woman? A little unfair don't you think? You again seem to have higher expectations for women then men. You justify men's weak behavior and make excuses to which you expect women to be more highly evovled to look above his own actions.

 

 

Blowing a gasket because your SO looked at porn once a week, masturbated and still made some sweet sweet love to you 4 times that week, is silly and juvenile, and that, to me, is unjustifiable.

 

Hmmm, I didn't realize that a difference in opinion meant "blowing a gasket". Pesronally, I think a woman that is working hard to meet her SO's needs and having sex 4 times a week with him, and a man STILL having to turn to porn to satasfy himself to images and ideas of other women is silly and juvenile, to me.

 

Estrogen is not synonymous with insecurity. You are not automatically insecure because you are a woman.

 

I never said estrogen was synonymous to insecurity. You enjoy putting words into meanings that were never there to begin with.

 

My point is that you keep using the fact that men have testosterone as to why they are allowed to do things. If that's the case, I should be able to use estrogen as a reason why I do things. And a man using porn because of his testosterone is just as excusable as a woman getting upset at a man using porn and images of other women. Since men want to spread their seed and women want one mate to protect and look after them.

 

 

You are alluding to cheating here, and that is not the topic of discussion. They didn't choose to need variety. They just do, they are hunters by nature. They CONTROL themselves by being monogamous. Wanting their cake and eating it too is having a wife at home and 3 mistresses outside. They are looking at images on TV, since when is this considered cheating?

 

I think porn can be a way for men to cheat without the stereotypical idea of what cheating is. Men use porn for the variety and the excitment. He is, in those moments he is using porn, replacing his SO for another woman. It's a way that a man gets both the monogmous relationship and the variety he wants. So excuse if yes, I feel that women get screwed in the process of that and that no woman actually has a man that really loves her and wants to be loyal to her.

So define the kind of self control you want in this instance? He walks into a room full of supermodels, he's not suppose to think they are beautiful? I don't think I understand what you mean by mental control.

 

 

Nope. I don't mind if he thinks other women are beautiful. It's when his thoughts linger on other women or he seeks them out for masturbation and fantasy that troubles me.

 

You don't understand what I mean by mental control? What don't you understand?

 

Actually you don't have a right to be the most physically beautiful woman to your SO.

 

I'm sorry but who are you to say what other people have or don't have the rights to in their relationship? That's an arrogant comment.

 

 

JS, I'm curious, have you ever been married? if not, what is your longest relationship?

 

I have never been married or in a relationship for 13 years. And while I appreicate the fact that you have, your relationship experience doesn't mean you would know whats best for me.

 

If a woman's feelings were so NATURALLY adverse to porn, then why are some women ok with it and some are not?

 

Because it's a personal opinion. I never said not being adverse to porn wasn't natural. But you seem to think that it's unnatural for women to be concerned with an SO's love for looking at other 18 year old girls with implants having sex. And it's not! It's just as "natarual" for a man to be turned on by it as it is for a woman to feel insecurity about what their SO is activitly doing. If men don't want to worry about his partner or want to be monogmous, why do they bother getting into a relationship only to turn around and say they need variety? It's confusing and not fair and selfish!

 

 

....or we are not actually female, we just have the organs?

 

Wow, I never even said anything close to that.

[Jersey Shortie]

You're right Jersey, I've never been a girl and my mid-20's days are long behind me . And I have no problem with you attacking porn just as I'd have no problem with you attacking the manipulative use of sex as practiced by minority of women. Where you go seriously off base - and consistently so - is when you extrapolate that model to disparage the entire gender. It's just wrong...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

How am I disparaging the entire gender?

[rainfall]

Rainfall, it's actually natural, that is why people are inclined to do it. It is a natural urge, especially for men. That is what testosterone does to you. Men, mostly have to fight that urge a lot of the times.

 

The urge to dictate your SO's fantasies reeks of control and control stems from insecurity issues. The desire to control the uncontrollable is very detrimental to a marriage. And it's the main thing that leads people to cheat and seek other emotional and physical outlets outside of the marriage. When your SO doesn't feel safe coming to you with his/her issues, concerns, fantasies, because you are going to make it about you and throw a tantrum. That is when he/she seeks or stumbles upon someone that can and will listen outside of the relationship. I know this from personal experience. Not everyone purposely cheats, a lot get caught up in a weak moment because of a weak marriage.

 

I'm not saying to indulge every issue or concern or fantasy of your SO but at least listen and out of respect for each other, consider it and compromise. That is the "work" you do to make sure the marriage survives. And this goes both ways too.

 

I'm not saying I have aproblem with my SO noticing someone and thinking they are attractive. I have a problem with him seeing someone and thinking about sleeping with them. If you want to sleep with every attractive person you see then I don't think that is normal.

 

There is no way I would ever even consider giving into a SO's fantasy of being with someone else. That is so disrespectful and hurtful.

[rainfall]

Being in a relationship and looking at porn is like having your cake and looking at pictures of other cakes too.

 

For many if not most women, as long as he doesn't try and eat the other cake he can look as much as he wants.

 

 

Its nothing like this at all. You aren't in love with the cake and you have no romantic feelings for the cake.

[The Collector]

Jersey Shortie, one of your claims is that there are many many relationships suffering because the guy is into porn and it's hurting the female. Yet this is a predominantly female-based forum, and you've been posting the same message over and over. Don't you think if you represented a significant swathe of womankind you would have more vocal supporters?

[Mr. Lucky]

How am I disparaging the entire gender?

I'm going to pretend your question is serious. Here's a list of the adjectives you've used to describe us:

 

"selfish"

"greedy"

"gluttonous"

"weak"

"unfair"

"disrespectful"

"liars"

 

I could pull up more but I only took the time to go back a couple of pages.

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

Jersey Shortie, one of your claims is that there are many many relationships suffering because the guy is into porn and it's hurting the female. Yet this is a predominantly female-based forum, and you've been posting the same message over and over. Don't you think if you represented a significant swathe of womankind you would have more vocal supporters?

 

I'd disagree that this is a majorly predominate-female-based forum. And the fact that there are alot of posts here with women asking questions about porn and being hurt by it does tell me it's a problem.

I'm going to pretend your question is serious. Here's a list of the adjectives you've used to describe us:

 

"selfish"

"greedy"

"gluttonous"

"weak"

"unfair"

"disrespectful"

"liars"

 

I could pull up more but I only took the time to go back a couple of pages.

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Some men are like this Mr. Lucky. Some women are as well. When it comes to porn I do think the men that view it are selfish, greedy, unfair, weak and disrespectful.