PORN..what's really the deal?

[grogster]

When it comes to porn I do think the men that view it are selfish, greedy, unfair, weak and disrespectful.

 

When it comes to absolutist critics of porn, I see them as dogmatic zealots with absolutely no idea of how porn affects particular relationships. They don't care about how relationships are actually lived and experienced. Like the porn-addled obsessive, all they see is porn. The irony is sweet.

 

This blindness to particulars, nuance and experience fatally undermines the anti-porn crusade. By viewing porn monolithically, these crusader-rabbits can't see the relationship "forrest" for the porn "trees".

[Mr. Lucky]

Some men are like this Mr. Lucky. Some women are as well.

But Jersey, you never say "some" men. Your posts are notably short on qualifiers and categories. You say "men are" and "men want" and "men look". One would have to assume that you think that being "selfish, greedy, unfair, weak and disrespectful" is genetically tied in with testosterone...

 

Mr. Lucky

[The Collector]

I'd disagree that this is a majorly predominate-female-based forum.

 

Well it is. Whatver, there are hundreds of say-it-like-it-is women here who have conspicuosly failed to join your crusade. Why do you think that is?

 

IAnd the fact that there are alot of posts here with women asking questions about porn and being hurt by it does tell me it's a problem.

 

There's a couple. There are far more posts from women saying they have no problem with porn and sometimes view it themselves. Maybe it would be best for you to stick to how porn makes you feel, and retrain from attempting to speak for all women who clearly don't want you as their spoke-person.

[trubella]

There's a couple. There are far more posts from women saying they have no problem with porn and sometimes view it themselves. Maybe it would be best for you to stick to how porn makes you feel, and retrain from attempting to speak for all women who clearly don't want you as their spoke-person.

 

amen.

[Jersey Shortie]

When it comes to absolutist critics of porn, I see them as dogmatic zealots with absolutely no idea of how porn affects particular relationships. They don't care about how relationships are actually lived and experienced. Like the porn-addled obsessive, all they see is porn. The irony is sweet.

 

This blindness to particulars, nuance and experience fatally undermines the anti-porn crusade. By viewing porn monolithically, these crusader-rabbits can't see the relationship "forrest" for the porn "trees".

 

Relationship "forrests" from the porn "trees"..... That made me laugh.

 

Don't you think the same could be said for men that defend porn to no end? And there are many men here that defend porn over anything else. I'm just sick of seeing it. I just wonder when men start actually trying to work with women instead of against them.

 

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Well it is. Whatver, there are hundreds of say-it-like-it-is women here who have conspicuosly failed to join your crusade. Why do you think that is?

 

WHy do I think that is? Heck, I don't even agree with that statement as itps really really off base. There have been a few women who don't agree but to say hundreds is WAY off base.

 

 

There's a couple. There are far more posts from women saying they have no problem with porn and sometimes view it themselves. Maybe it would be best for you to stick to how porn makes you feel, and retrain from attempting to speak for all women who clearly don't want you as their spoke-person.

 

I don't speak for all women but I do know there are alot of women bothered by it. I also recongize that there are women who disagree. However, there are tons of posts in these forums alone going back for years where women are hurt and confused about their man's porn use. Is this just something men don't care about? Do most men just not care if things hurt women? Because after all, porn is all about what makes men happy and it doesn't seem like most men really care about how women are effected by it. And whever the issue is brought up the only side men want to discuss is the one where there are women who tolerate it or even like it. But most men never opennly want to acknowledge the women that are hurt by it or feel betrayed by it. It is frutrating. The older I get the more convinced I am that most men have no concern or caring for women. And that 20 year olds having sex with implants trumps all for most men. I am fighting a loosing battle anyway. It's not like men are going to stop looking at porn. Porn is too great for them! And real women are apparently just crap to them.

[Rorocher]

Relationship "forrests" from the porn "trees"..... That made me laugh.

 

Don't you think the same could be said for men that defend porn to no end? And there are many men here that defend porn over anything else. I'm just sick of seeing it. I just wonder when men start actually trying to work with women instead of against them.

 

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WHy do I think that is? Heck, I don't even agree with that statement as itps really really off base. There have been a few women who don't agree but to say hundreds is WAY off base.

 

 

 

 

I don't speak for all women but I do know there are alot of women bothered by it. I also recongize that there are women who disagree. However, there are tons of posts in these forums alone going back for years where women are hurt and confused about their man's porn use. Is this just something men don't care about? Do most men just not care if things hurt women? Because after all, porn is all about what makes men happy and it doesn't seem like most men really care about how women are effected by it. And whever the issue is brought up the only side men want to discuss is the one where there are women who tolerate it or even like it. But most men never opennly want to acknowledge the women that are hurt by it or feel betrayed by it. It is frutrating. The older I get the more convinced I am that most men have no concern or caring for women. And that 20 year olds having sex with implants trumps all for most men. I am fighting a loosing battle anyway. It's not like men are going to stop looking at porn. Porn is too great for them! And real women are apparently just crap to them.

 

JS, whatever man or MEN that incited this kind of bitterness in you ought to be taken out back and shot. Wow!

 

It's just all so depressing to read, this very strong negative reaction you have to MOST men, like all they do is sit around and plot the downfall of women. And you don't even know most men which makes it weirder. In a world of 6 billion plus people, you only know a significantly tiny fraction of men.

 

Then again, thank God for being able to bat for the other team.

[Mr. Lucky]

The older I get the more convinced I am that most men have no concern or caring for women.

The older you get? Do you mean all twenty-something years ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

JS, whatever man or MEN that incited this kind of bitterness in you ought to be taken out back and shot. Wow!

 

I am just being truthfull about how most men are today unfortunetly. I was navie before and really loved men and thought they were great. I soon learned some lessons in that regard. I still have a great desire for a good man but as I get older the more I see there are very few truly good men.

 

It's just all so depressing to read, this very strong negative reaction you have to MOST men, like all they do is sit around and plot the downfall of women. And you don't even know most men which makes it weirder. In a world of 6 billion plus people, you only know a significantly tiny fraction of men.

 

You only know a significant tiny fraction of men yourself. Does that obliterate your opinions? You certainly don't know 6 billion plus men.

 

Then again, thank God for being able to bat for the other team.

 

I didn't realize you batted for the other team. Good luck with that.

[Jersey Shortie]

The older you get? Do you mean all twenty-something years ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

By porn standards, i'm an old hag. ANd since porn is about catering to what men really want, I guess I am an old hag by most men's standards as well.

[fral945]

By porn standards, i'm an old hag. ANd since porn is about catering to what men really want, I guess I am an old hag by most men's standards as well.

 

You obviously haven't watched much porn, JS. Ever heard of MILFs?

[Jersey Shortie]

You obviously haven't watched much porn, JS. Ever heard of MILFs?

 

You've obviously have watched too much porn Fral. I'm in my mid-20s..that makes me a milf now? Why do men have a knack for saying the completely wrong things?

[Rorocher]

I am just being truthfull about how most men are today unfortunetly. I was navie before and really loved men and thought they were great. I soon learned some lessons in that regard. I still have a great desire for a good man but as I get older the more I see there are very few truly good men. .

 

Oh my, this is just so sad to read. To be so disillusioned at such a young age when boobs are still so perky, and the skin is tight. And 20 year old porn stars make you feel insecure?? Girls that you can still give a good run for their money without even trying?

 

With each post, your situation unravels and actually makes your extreme views more understandable. This whole time, I thought you were a middle aged woman with more life experiences under her belt. My mistake.

You have a lot of living and learning yet to come.

 

Why waste your youth on so much bitterness?

 

If there are very few truly good men left, then, why is an incredibly massive amount of women still seeking out AND FINDING good men to date and marry? Perhaps, they haven't been clued in to how awful and uncaring MOST men are.

 

Oh yeah, they'll find out:lmao:

[demrea]

 

.... I think a woman that is working hard to meet her SO's needs and having sex 4 times a week with him, and a man STILL having to turn to porn to satasfy himself to images and ideas of other women is silly and juvenile, to me.

 

 

pardon the interuption ...

 

may i clarify this point?

 

are you saying that if the man is having sex with his SO 4 times a week that it is silly and juvenile for him to masterbate or that it is silly and juvenile to be aided by porn?

 

also, is the women neccesarily working hard to meet his needs or are they scenarios where the women is getting her needs met as well 4 times a week.

 

maybe that was just for effect? it is possible, isnt it, that the women wanted sex those 4 times as well?

 

anyhow ...

[Jersey Shortie]

Oh my, this is just so sad to read. To be so disillusioned at such a young age when boobs are still so perky, and the skin is tight. And 20 year old porn stars make you feel insecure?? Girls that you can still give a good run for their money without even trying?

 

Well, I can look forward to the next 20 years where where I will, like most women, have to settle for partners that while they have aged, and so have their partners, are stuck in a time warp and watching the new generation of 20 year old girls have sex...and the next generation, and next...... Soon, as the men of today have and are, my husband too can masturbate to images of girls old enough to be his daughter..and granddaughter. There is something entirely messed up about that but that is realistically what the majority of men do.

 

With each post, your situation unravels and actually makes your extreme views more understandable.

 

You know nothing of my situation. You only know what I tell you my views are.

 

 

This whole time, I thought you were a middle aged woman with more life experiences under her belt. My mistake.

You have a lot of living and learning yet to come.

 

I find that people who are middle aged have more life experience but it doesn't mean they are smarter.

 

Why waste your youth on so much bitterness?

 

Being disillusioned about the way men really are? Perhaps fathers should sit their daughters down and tell them that men will always need porn in their lives. SO he can be statisfied with her and himself and she will just have to stand on the side lines and smile about it while her SO is wanking off to women she can't ever live up to anyway. And we can keep raising our sons to seek out instant gratification through porn instead learning what it really takes to appreciate and respect a woman. good times for all!

 

If there are very few truly good men left, then, why is an incredibly massive amount of women still seeking out AND FINDING good men to date and marry? Perhaps, they haven't been clued in to how awful and uncaring MOST men are.

 

Massive amount of women finding good men? You do realize the nations divorce rate don't you? And how many people cheat and lie to each other don't you? I would beg to differ on your "massive amount" comment.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

are you saying that if the man is having sex with his SO 4 times a week that it is silly and juvenile for him to masterbate or that it is silly and juvenile to be aided by porn?

 

My opinion of porn is that it's over all juvenile. It's an juvenile fantasy. It's something men start when they are young and never seem to quite let go of or try to grow out of. So "in my opinion", yes I think it's juvenile that grown men hold onto their porn so dearly. Even at the expense of the woman in their life. You have men that get older every year..they hit 20, 30, 40....etc etc.....and they are STILL looking at images of 18-25 year old girls. Most women's taste seems to grow as they get older. Most men's seem to stay the same locked in some juvenile fantasy world. And the message is clear: Men want 18-25 year old girls. They don't want their aging wives/sos because they will always think those girls are better. And women are suppose to feel good and "confident" in the fact that most men are clearly showing what they wish for are 18-25 year olds while what she wishes for is for him to see her as sexy and excitable. Again, this is my opinion based how I see what men do.

 

also, is the women neccesarily working hard to meet his needs or are they scenarios where the women is getting her needs met as well 4 times a week.

 

Of course...whatever the number is. My point is if a woman is making an effort to meet her partners needs, and obviously hopefully enjoys it herself, why can't he make compromises himself? Again, it's my opinion that porn is selfish and self-indulgent. Especially the extent today that men have avialable. I really truly believe we have generations of men that are more porn dependent then they care to admit to themselves. No doubt that porn heighens sexual desire for alot of men. But does that mean it's right? That's kind of a deep question. It's my belief that we are a country that is pretty gluttonous all around, men and women. And I think people are rather gluttonous when it comes to porn. Again, more then they would care to admit. The difference between over eating, and over indulging in porn to make yourself feel good is that you can out right see the physical changes when you over-eat. Just because you can't physically see the damange, doesn't mean it isn't an over indulgence.

 

maybe that was just for effect? it is possible, isnt it, that the women wanted sex those 4 times as well?

 

Of course. My only point is that if your SO is having sex with you, why can't you put down the porn and compromise. Just as I am sure she makes compromises for him?

[The Collector]

JS are you Catholic? Just curious.

[Jersey Shortie]

What's that have to do with the subject?

[Rorocher]

With age and more life experiences under her belt, JS will eventually come to reevaluate some of her extreme views. Mid-20s, pffft!, the good ol' days, we've all been there.

[The Collector]

What's that have to do with the subject?

 

If that's a yes, I'll leave you to work it out. But something to do with a sanctimonious approach to sins of the flesh, shame and fear of sex itself, and a perverse fascination with the very thing you profess to despise.

 

On the plus side, Catholic girls tend to be very good in bed.

[Jersey Shortie]

With age and more life experiences under her belt, JS will eventually come to reevaluate some of her extreme views. Mid-20s, pffft!, the good ol' days, we've all been there.

 

I don't see any need to reevaluate my views any more then you see fit to reevaluate yours. There is alot of truth in my views. Age and life experience doesn't always mean someone is smarter. If that was true, our country that is run by old men, would be golden!

[Rorocher]

I don't see any need to reevaluate my views any more then you see fit to reevaluate yours. There is alot of truth in my views. Age and life experience doesn't always mean someone is smarter. If that was true, our country that is run by old men, would be golden!

 

 

No hon, age and life experiences are more likely to make you smarter than not, unless you are just incredibly stupid. See, as you get older and the years pile up, life thrusts you in different situations that you would have never dreamt of being in when you were a wee lass, those situations open your eyes, give you a better understanding and even change your mind on issues. Life has an unpredictable way of showing you that it's not as black and white as you may think.

 

Don't get me wrong, old age doesn't mean you know it all, you can NEVER know it all. So that invalidates your "golden country run by old men theory". But you do tend to know better as you go along. A bunch of "old men" may not be able to make our country golden, but a bunch of teenagers can't do a better job than them.

 

At 45 years old, 3 children (one your age), I don't claim to know it all but I've come a looong way since mid- 20s. Certain things are dragging lower than they use to but I no longer envy youth or how tight their skin is compared to mine. Or how my SO is attracted by that tight skin, like he can help it. Because I too once enjoyed youth and it was a blast.

 

As a matter of fact, I don't think we should be arguing our points with you. I think you have to live it and learn it on your own.

[Jersey Shortie]

If that's a yes, I'll leave you to work it out. But something to do with a sanctimonious approach to sins of the flesh, shame and fear of sex itself, and a perverse fascination with the very thing you profess to despise.

 

On the plus side, Catholic girls tend to be very good in bed.

 

It has nothing to do with sin and flesh and thinking sex is wrong or bad or dirty. I don't think sex is any of those things. I however do think there is alot wrong with the medium of pornography. Just because I think this, doesn't ,mean I think sex is bad or dirty.

 

No hon, age and life experiences are more likely to make you smarter than not, unless you are just incredibly stupid. See, as you get older and the years pile up, life thrusts you in different situations that you would have never dreamt of being in when you were a wee lass, those situations open your eyes, give you a better understanding and even change your mind on issues. Life has an unpredictable way of showing you that it's not as black and white as you may think.

 

Why you feel the need to explain the life process to me is beyond me. While life teaches you lessons, I have met too many stupid older people to be convinced that they have any of a better handle on life then someone younger then them, and vice versa. There are stupid people of all ages. I see older people make mistakes just as I see younger ones do. My core values and beliefs won't change based on my life experience. I'm sorry you have difficulty accepting that. And I by far don't think anything is black and white. I however do have my opinions, as do you, even if I do see the grays.

 

So that invalidates your "golden country run by old men theory".

 

Hardly.

 

But you do tend to know better as you go along. A bunch of

"old men" may not be able to make our country golden, but a bunch of teenagers can't do a better job than them.

 

Yeap, that's true. But I am by far not a teenager.

 

At 45 years old, 3 children (one your age),

 

I don't believe I ever gave my exact age so how could you make that assertion?

 

I don't claim to know it all but I've come a looong way since mid- 20s.

 

I have no doubt that you have and I have no doubt that I will. But my core value system will remain the same. And with this being true, that doesn't make my opinions of porn any less invalid then yours. I feel as if you are trying very hard to invalidate my opinions rather then discussing the topic at hand. Perhaps we can stay more on track?

 

Certain things are dragging lower than they use to but I no longer envy youth or how tight their skin is compared to mine. Or how my SO is attracted by that tight skin, like he can help it. Because I too once enjoyed youth and it was a blast.

 

Then you are saying you are more highly evovled then your husband because you no longer envy youth and he does? You're expectations for yourself and women seem to exceed the expectations you have for men. "men can't help it" but you expect women to "help it" and be so understanding. And when do most men give understanding?

 

As a matter of fact, I don't think we should be arguing our points with you. I think you have to live it and learn it on your own.

 

I think you should let others decide who they want or don't want to argue their points with instead of taking the stance that you speak for for everyone on board and are dictating who they can and can't argue points with. My points are no less valid then yours and you would be kind to remember that.

[The Collector]

Another thing that reminds me of Catholicism in your posts JS is the idea of 'purity of mind' - that you should be able to dictate who your SO thinks about. You say porn is juvenile - presumably you don't think masturbation is something just for teenage boys and girls? Perhaps you feel shameful about your own masturbation, and this (alongside your insecurity) is why you project that hostility onto men?

 

But assuming that you 'allow' non-pubescent men to masturbate, and they 'grow up, show some consideration and put down the porn,' what are they allowed to think about when masturbating? Just their partner, forever and ever? That's what you think is reasonable, yes?

[Jersey Shortie]

Another thing that reminds me of Catholicism in your posts JS is the idea of 'purity of mind' - that you should be able to dictate who your SO thinks about.

 

Purity of mind is also a buddhist mindset. I could be a Buddhist. I could be Catholic I could even be athesist! It doesn't matter to be honest.

 

You say porn is juvenile - presumably you don't think masturbation is something just for teenage boys and girls? Perhaps you feel shameful about your own masturbation, and this (alongside your insecurity) is why you project that hostility onto men?

 

Not at all. I don't think masturbation is shameful.

 

Why do you assume that because of my concerns and issues with porn that I have sexual issues? Isn't sex so much more then your acceptance of porn? As for hostility towards men, it's not that I have hostility. Just disheartment and hurt. Although, there is alot of porn out there where men show open hostility towards women.

 

But assuming that you 'allow' non-pubescent men to masturbate, and they 'grow up, show some consideration and put down the porn,' what are they allowed to think about when masturbating? Just their partner, forever and ever? That's what you think is reasonable, yes?

 

This isn't about me "allowing" or not "allowing" anything. I just think porn is an adolcent fantasy that men never seem to grow up out of. It would be nice if men could grow out of and learn to respect and care for their women like she deserves. I just don't have much hope anymore expecting that. Porn objectifies women and it has nothing to do with showing respect or treating women like they are actual human beings aside from the "holes" they have to offer. And I don't understand why men think women should trust and respect them when they don't respect women and give them reasons to question why he is even in a relationship if the porn is more important. The way you talk Collector, it seems that porn is a very important part of your life.

 

Maybe fathers need to start teaching their daughters that she should expect to share a life with a man and his porn.

[PandorasBox]

One thing that is for sure, everyone here seems to stand 100% behind how they feel on the matter.

[Rorocher]

Oy!. Enough with the princess attitude already. You grow old, gravity takes it course, you boobs and your skin sag, wrinkles pay you a visit and never leave. You shrink and more diseases try to befriend you. AND on top of that, men won't be as attracted to you as they once was.

 

Yes indeed, WITH OR WITHOUT THE EXISTENCE OF PORN, the new crop of perky 25 year olds will ALWAYS garner more attention from men AND WOMEN than your old wrinkled up body because some things are just more aesthetically pleasing than others. Welcome to life honey, deal with it. Whine till the cows come home, this FACT is not going to change.

 

It has little to do with respect or love or caring or gluttony as it has to do with pure unadulterated physical attraction, which you can't control. What people then choose to do with that attraction is up to them. He may not look at porn, but don't for a second think that the new, fresh out of college secretary from the office doesn't look mighty good to him. And when he is in his private moment and wants to release some tension, most likely her image will prop up in his head to aid his release. I honestly don't know how you or HE can control that or why it's even a problem when he's not hopping after the secretary. Why would anyone want to control people's private thoughts?

 

Scroll up, you did mention that you are in your mid-20s which I'm assuming means you are no more than 27. So yes, you are my kid's age mate. You are entitled to your opinion on anything, thank God for freedom. Keep that opinion.