Simple Question

[quankanne]

boy, y'all are a depressing lot on this subject. I think marriage is damned cool ... think about it. Someone to make that leap of faith into the future with, who wants it as badly as you do and is willing to work at making it work. Someone who knows what turns you on, mentally and physically. Someone who knows you well enough to anticipate your need when you're truly in need (having a bad day, need a laugh, need hug). Some who just knows you. Really, the only one who could know you any better would be your mama!

 

the disclaimer is that there are very few relationships like this, because people tend to want instant gratification ...

[luna3]

Then our society has forced us to take it even further by romanticizing the idea of mating.

 

they have to sell this fantasy, or knowing the reality, hardly anyone would do it!

 

i agree with the instant gratification comment above. real marriage is, unfortunately, about a lot of hard work by two people to stay together against all the odds of financial difficulties, disillusionment, losing passion, stretch marks, illnesses, changing personalities, and on and on until one of you dies or gives up in utter exhaustion. it is a game of indian wrestling that never seems to end, but is more a battle against yourself and your immaturities and pinings than the other person. i think we tend to forget that, and often the war becomes about winning or making the other person succumb, or just running the hell away as quickly as our stumpy legs can carry us.

[Raina]

Two things here. Marrying for financial benefits?? Ugh...I dont think so. I know people do it, but that seems, to me, a trainwreck waiting to happen. Then divorce comes up, and what was that about financial benefits? Nothing but one or the other getting sucked dry...financially AND emotionally.

 

The second part is nice, but you can do that without being married. My man and I have been together 4 years. He is totally there for me and vice versa. We do not need a ring for that.

 

Agreed.

And about the financial beneficts, it's sad but it's true. I have some girl friends who "had" to marry because that would be the only way they would ever leave their parents home and start living and seeing the world outside. It is heartbreaking but I won't condemn them for it.

 

But now that i think about it, all the stuff you can do being married is the same you can do unmarried. Maybe most people only marry because of the romantic aspect, or maybe it makes them less likely to break up?

 

Or... maybe because it's the "natural" step to take when you are both grown up and in love? This is something i've always wondered. Don't you feel lost when you suddenly realize there are no more further steps in the relation? Not to mention all the social pressure too. We're all ment to fall in love, date, marry, have kids, build a life together, etc. When you decide that you want to skip one of those steps, isnt there a little voice inside of you saying that something is wrong?

[angryyoungman70]

Someone who knows what turns you on, mentally and physically

 

But refuses to actually do so.......

[quankanne]

But refuses to actually do so.......

 

I dunno, AYM – it sounds like the relationship then becomes about possession. Look at the lyrics to Billy Joel's "A matter of trust" – it talks about the kinds of "love" people base their relationships on.

[beachbaby]

Believe it or not, divorced people were once happily married too.

 

Not divorced, yet not happily married at this time but once was. It just happens. Ask around...dare you to find many truly happily married couples.

[JooSee]

boy, y'all are a depressing lot on this subject. I think marriage is damned cool ... think about it. Someone to make that leap of faith into the future with, who wants it as badly as you do and is willing to work at making it work. Someone who knows what turns you on, mentally and physically. Someone who knows you well enough to anticipate your need when you're truly in need (having a bad day, need a laugh, need hug). Some who just knows you. Really, the only one who could know you any better would be your mama!

 

the disclaimer is that there are very few relationships like this, because people tend to want instant gratification ...

 

 

The thing is, you dont NEED to be married to have all of this. Why do people keep writing that marriage equals someone who is always there, someone who knows you, allows you to fart etc...? I have all of this right now, with no marriage certificate. Marriage does not equal these things. Any good solid relationship encompasses all of these characteristics. Sometimes i wonder if not getting married keeps the "passion" alive more than marrying.

[tweldy]

You just weigh your personal needs with what a marriage provides (assuming some level of healthy, working marriage):

 

Marriage:

(+) More stable environment for children

(+) Legal system provides certain protections/benefits (example: social security and survivor benefits)

(+) Personal security: illness or injury provides built-in partner to help out

(+) More secure environment for raising kids

(+) Can partner such that one person works/other does something else (i.e. goes to school, is a homemaker, runs small business)

(+) Assuming fidelity (ha ha ha, I know, I've read the infidelity board) reduced risk of STD

(+) Having someone to come home to every day

(+) Social standing and social approval

 

Single (w/o kids, w/o long term non-married partner etc.):

(+) Short term personal freedom: Do what you want, when you want, aka I'm going to Vegas this weekend

(+) Long term personal freedom: Can make sweeping financial decisions or life decisions according to only self-interest, no partner to consider

(+) Relatively few responsibilities

(+) Sexual freedom

 

 

Now there are relationships that aren't marriage that can bridge some of the benefits, etc. No doubt. But its a basic value choice based on what you want. I would tend to agree that single people are largely happier with that caveat that older married couples (read: near or past retirement age) seem a lot happier than older singles in an average sense. Maybe they're all swinging or something

[luvstarved]

I was just looking at a website that described 4 stages of marriage, which went like this:

 

1) Romance

2) Disillusionment

3) Misery

4) Awakening

 

So, simple question, simple answer. Most marriages fail in stages 2 and 3. Getting to 4 is a lot of work. The cost/benefit either works for you or does not.

 

I think if more people believed in the possibility of getting to stage 4, then more would hang in there and work harder toward that "light at the end of the tunnel".

 

I've been married twice (including current one in stage 3) and had 3 other live in relationships. All previous I bailed on at stage 2 cruising into 3. I did not see the possibility of stage 4. Right now, I do. Since I have never gotten to stage 4, I do not know if I ever can.

 

But, I have seen people do it. In the end, I think you're either built for it or not...and even if you are built for it, you have to be ready (aka "mature enough") for it.

 

Marriage as it is intended to be seems like the greatest possible experience one can have on planet earth. I don't really know why it is so damn hard to achieve. I guess partly because the fairy tales literally end on the day of the wedding. Cinderella and the Prince ride off into the sunset in their golden carriage, and well, we won't talk about the rest...

We're left thinking: WTF???????????????????????

[luvstarved]

Sometimes i wonder if not getting married keeps the "passion" alive more than marrying.

 

Not in my experience...if one person wants marriage and the other doesn't, it might keep the one who wants it on their best behavior longer, but if you are living with someone, there's only so much faking you can do.

 

Marriage is intended to be a commitment. It is meant to be a commitment to honor an exclusive wonderful bond that presumably exists. It is not marriage's fault if people enter into something else and call it marriage.

I'm not being judgmental, I have not gone into it with the right mindset either, but...think I should have.

 

Marriage should be a profound decision and not taken lightly. If it really were, the divorce rate would not be so high.

 

True enough, the marriage rate would not be, either.

[silktricks]

I think most people have fairly unrealistic ideas about marriage - so in that respect, yes, it's overrated.

 

Marriage isn't a requirement for a good long-term relationship. I know and have known plenty of people who have been together as long as my husband and I (or longer) who are not married and perfectly happy.

 

I personally am glad we married, and he is, too. If we hadn't married, I am certain we would still be together, though. Marriage doesn't define our relationship. It neither created nor cured the problems we had. Marriage doesn't "do" anything other than create a legal foundation for the relationship. Whether married or unmarried there will be issues that must be dealt with, there will be high spots and low spots, good times and bad.

[OpenBook]

I personally am glad we married, and he is, too.

 

This always amazes me, how W's in general typically have such a deep-seated sense of ownership and entitlement to their H's that they can speak for them so confidently. I always wonder what their H's are REALLY thinking?? (Silk - PLEASE don't assume I'm picking on you. I just don't understand married people. At all. They are strange creatures from a foreign land to me.)

[angryyoungman70]

I was just looking at a website that described 4 stages of marriage, which went like this:

 

1) Romance

2) Disillusionment

3) Misery

4) Awakening

 

Retrouvaille right? My wife and I took the program last fall. If you are a Catholic, and BOTH parties are commited to the program, and you can overlook all of the past misery, then this program may work for you.

 

One word of warning however. In my experience, the way it's played out, the men are always at fault, and made to appear as a typical "dumb man", while the women in this program are the superior beings who are always right.

[silktricks]

This always amazes me, how W's in general typically have such a deep-seated sense of ownership and entitlement to their H's that they can speak for them so confidently.

 

I don't believe that it takes a "deep-seated sense of ownership and entitlement" to be able to repeat with confidence oft-state words that have the emotional background and caring proving truth.

 

My husband tells me often that he is glad we are married. I believe him and feel confident enough in that belief to repeat it.

[OpenBook]

I don't believe that it takes a "deep-seated sense of ownership and entitlement" to be able to repeat with confidence oft-state words that have the emotional background and caring proving truth.

 

Sorry, you lost me there. I have no clue what this means.

 

My husband tells me often that he is glad we are married. I believe him and feel confident enough in that belief to repeat it.

 

OK, I understand this. Here's my experience... My exH used to say (and so did all his married friends BTW), "There's a difference between lying, and lying to your wife." Men (in general) are spectacularly gifted at lying to women. I see no reason (meaning: motivation for them, in their minds) to stop using this "gift" after they get married.

 

I imagine that for a woman, it takes a great leap of faith to trust their H (whether he's ever cheated on her or not) and believe everything he says to her... especially about their relationship.

 

How do you married women do it??

[quankanne]

The thing is, you dont NEED to be married to have all of this. Why do people keep writing that marriage equals someone who is always there, someone who knows you, allows you to fart etc...? I have all of this right now, with no marriage certificate. Marriage does not equal these things. Any good solid relationship encompasses all of these characteristics. Sometimes i wonder if not getting married keeps the "passion" alive more than marrying.

 

no, you don't. However, how solid is that bond when there's nothing there to hold it in place the way a public profession like marriage does? I'm here of free will, just like you are, but my moral obligation (and DH's, too) is multiplied many times over because we've committed ourselves before God and everyone, including the state, in a specific relationship. I have no idea how it works, or if it even works the same when you're juntado ...

 

my marriage certificate tells me that not only is my husband morally bound to be there, he's legally bound

 

seriously, though, marriage is kinda like buying a megaplier for the mega lottery: It cost's just a dollar more, but the pay-off is huge.

 

as far as marriage V. living together keeping "passion" in a relationship, I couldn't tell you, as I've never lived with a man. But I think passion will be there regardless of the marriage state, so it really shouldn't be considered a factor. Either you have it or you don't, period.

[quankanne]

How do you married women do it??

 

good question, as I'm not quite sure. But I do know that it's necessary for keeping any relationship alive. And I think you can gage someone's sincerity (you know, the good old bullshxt detector at work) ...

[silktricks]

Sorry, you lost me there. I have no clue what this means.

To repeat with assuredness something that is said to you often, with obvious heartfelt emotion is not acting (or speaking or writing) out of a sense of either ownership or entitlement. It's acting (or speaking or writing) out of a sense of mutual love, understanding, trust and commitment.

 

OK, I understand this. Here's my experience... My exH used to say (and so did all his married friends BTW), "There's a difference between lying, and lying to your wife." Men (in general) are spectacularly gifted at lying to women. I see no reason (meaning: motivation for them, in their minds) to stop using this "gift" after they get married.

Dang, what a sexist statement this is. I'm surprised no man has jumped all over you for saying it. First, men are no more spectacularly gifted at lying to women than women to men. And second, it implies that all men (sorry - most men) lie as a matter of course to their wives. But that women are honest with their husbands....???

 

I imagine that for a woman, it takes a great leap of faith to trust their H (whether he's ever cheated on her or not) and believe everything he says to her... especially about their relationship.

 

How do you married women do it??

You can equally say that it takes a great leap of faith to trust anyone at anytime. I've been deceived far more and in far worse ways by women (by and large) then I ever have been by a man.

 

After having been deceived by anyone you choose whether or not the relationship is worth continuing, that choice is based on a number of factors. If you determine that it is worth continuing then you go through a process to determine at what level. If you determine after that process that an intimate relationship is worthwhile, then you go through a process again to have/regain the trust that is required for a truly intimate relationship. All that processing can take a second or two (he/she lied about taking out the garbage) to a few years (just met/an affair, etc.) Eventually, though, you either have trust or you don't have trust. For myself, I would not choose to be in or remain in a truly intimate relationship without trust. My husband and I have that trust and the intimacy that can be derived from that trust.

 

So, it's not a leap of faith to believe what he tells me. It's trust based on knowledge of him. I've known him at his best and his worst. He's known me at my best and my worst. Who better to trust? Someone I don't know as well? Whose foibles I have yet to experience? Who doesn't know me as well? No, I love my husband and he loves me. It's nice that way .

[JooSee]

However, how solid is that bond when there's nothing there to hold it in place the way a public profession like marriage does? I'm here of free will, just like you are, but my moral obligation (and DH's, too) is multiplied many times over because we've committed ourselves before God and everyone, including the state, in a specific relationship.

 

my marriage certificate tells me that not only is my husband morally bound to be there, he's legally bound

.

 

Its just a solid as the bond holding you and yours together. Who's to say he or she won't bail out on the marriage just as he/she would bail out on the non married relationship. Have you seen divorce rates lately???

 

Before you were married, you were just as solid I take it, otherwise you would have never gotten married. IMHO, the only thing that makes marriage different than a serious relationship is a piece of paper. I feel very morally obligated to my man. And could legally as well if we owned property together, or had a child together.

 

I could commit myself before God and my family as well in a ceremony of the like, but not have it recognized by the state. Are you saying that my relationship is then less substantial?

[OpenBook]

Dang, what a sexist statement this is. I'm surprised no man has jumped all over you for saying it.

 

I'm a little surprised too. Maybe it's true! Yes it is sexist... but it's also been my own experience and observation, for the most part.

 

First, men are no more spectacularly gifted at lying to women than women to men. And second, it implies that all men (sorry - most men) lie as a matter of course to their wives. But that women are honest with their husbands....???

 

I get your point. Wasn't thinking about whether the reverse was true.

 

I've been deceived far more and in far worse ways by women (by and large) then I ever have been by a man.

 

Interesting. My experience has been the exact opposite. I am much more inclined to trust a woman than I would a man. I view men as our natural enemies sometimes.

[quankanne]

Before you were married, you were just as solid I take it

 

no, not really, because my husband (well, before he was my husband) was working overseas and I only saw him every six months for a couple of weeks. And we were kind of just bumbling along for about a year or so until he finally came right out and said he wanted to marry me. Which was BIG news to me, and we ended up eloping just before he left back to Saudi Arabia.

 

thinking about this, I guess I can see your point when you say that the bond is just as strong for you, because it's been your experience (and millions of others', too). But in my case it worked out to where the act of marriage fostered that bond between me and my guy, so that's where I'm coming from, you know?

 

as for bailing out on the marriage, well ... he's got a very strong ethic when it comes to marriage, even though I'm wife #3. His intention was never to remarry because he'd been burned so badly before. I honestly don't believe that he's going to do anything to ruin what we have because he's finally got the opportunity to do things right, with someone who's just as committed.

[BeNotAfraid]

The question should be: "Is marriage to me overrated?"

 

Marriage is about what both are willing to give to make the other's life more pleasant and easy. It's not about what you want to get.