Trust problems. . .things seem to be coming to a head. A bit long- sorry

[josh7777777]

So here's the background. I am 29 years old. My girlfriend (28 years old) and I have been together for 8+ years. Let's call her Ms. X. We are not married- it's just never been a priority for either one of us.

 

When I was 18, the girl I was seeing (not my current girlfriend) got pregnant and had twins. I was very naive at this phase of my life, and did not find out about the pregnancy literally until I got to the hospital. Long story short, I had suspected she was pregnant, but she lied to me and insisted that she wasn't and never knew until she got to the hospital. I found out roughly 2 years after they were born that she knew about the pregnancy the whole time (duh), and so did much of her family. Anyone using common sense would have been able to see that she knew the whole time, but because of my trusting nature I believed her lies. I was never able to forgive her for withholding that from me, since I knew I would never trust her about anything- she lied to me about the biggest event in my life- and our relationship fell apart soon afterwards. I still feel stupid to this day for ever believing something so far-fetched, and wonder how I could have ever believed her. I told myself I would never look that stupid again, and would be careful about what I believed in the future, and who I trusted. (side note: I have a great relationship with my boys and love them more than anything in the world, though I don't get to see them nearly enough).

 

Fast forward to 2006. Ms.X and I have been together for 6 years. I am crazy about her, she is the most beautiful person in the world. She is pleasant, smart, funny, and I completely trust her. We have a place together, and have been living together for years now. We have relationship issues sometimes, but nothing out of the ordinary. We are talking about getting a house in the next few years. During the summer months, I one day happen to stumble upon something in her work email. I was not snooping (honestly), I saw a suspicious email and read it. It seemed to allude to something that had happened "twice" between her and one of her coworkers. I brought this to her attention, and she downplayed it as a couple of times when they went out and smoked a joint together after work. I asked why she wouldn't have mentioned that to me since I wouldn't have had a problem with her doing something like that. Again she downplayed this as being nothing remarkable and changed the subject. Well, I found her behavior surrounding this email to be quite strange, and her ensuing behavior. I chose to keep an eye on her email for the next few days, though I felt dirty for doing this. After reading some more emails the next couple of days, it appeared that something more than smoking a joint had happened. I found out that on two occasions they had gotten drunk at work outings and "made out" in the car. I was devastated. I know, it could have been worse that making out. The thing that really bothered me about it, was that it had happened twice. One drunken kiss I would have been pissed about but I would have gotten over it- hell I have grabbed a girls ass in a drunken stupor, and I felt terrible about it and told Ms. X. Two times with the same guy crushed me. This was nearly the end of our relationship. I didn't want to be with someone who I could not trust again. But she seemed very sorry, and said that it wouldn't happen again. She never cries, and was bawling her eyes out that night. I really believed her. She changed her email password- saying I shouldn't be able to read all of her work emails (fine), but assured me that she wasn't going to sabotage our relationship by continuing anything with this married guy (with a baby at home). I believed her, but spent the next year or so always paranoid about where she was when she walked through the door from work a few minutes late. I would make snide remarks about what they did on a routine basis. These would make her feel bad, but I didn't care. We got into a few follow-up fights about the incident, and about me badgering her about it. It got to the point where I finally let it go, but probably not until the last 6 months or so.

 

So now we are in 2008. We bought a house in April, and things have been going pretty good. Last week, I connected to my home PC from work to monitor some downloads I had going (some programs that I wanted to have ready for when I got home from work). I remoted into my home PC, and lo and behold I see her in an email account that I had no knowledge existed. In it were some emails, seemingly innocent in nature, and some pics of some guy. I only got to see one or two of the messages, nothing sexual going on. So I approached her about it, not in a very polite fashion. Apparently, this is a guy that she had a thing for before her and I hooked up. He lives across the country, so it's not like they are going to have a secret rendevous. But I was pissed off that she was doing this behind my back. After all the crap that went on and then lingered from her last extra-curricular activity, she had been corresponding with a former interest of hers behind my back for a few weeks. All of those feeling of mistrust, anger, suspicion, and paranoia came flooding back into my head. We had a huge fight, and she apologized for not just being up front about communicating with the guy. I asked if they had spoken on the phone, and she said one time just to catch up. So the past few days I would come home from work with the intention of looking at her cell phone and seeing how many calls she had placed, though I figured they wouldn't be in her history I wanted to take a shot. The past 3 nights when I got home her cell phone was not where it ALWAYS is, in a pocket in her purse. It's there literally 99% of the time unless it is charging or being used. I suspected that she was hiding it from me or something. So tonight I decided I would try to access her online account to see her call history. Well that backfired since it sent her a message that her password was being reset. She called me at work and flipped out, and we had a huge fight. This time she was on the offensive. How dare I invade her privacy and try to spy on her phone records, she again reiterated that they just swapped a few emails and spoke once on the phone. I told her to show me the phone records, so I could have piece of mind. I would apologize if there was only the one call on there. She said that if I don't trust her, that there is no reason for us to be together. I said, why should I trust her?

 

Do I just need to get over what happened a few years ago? It's not like they had sex. I thought I was over it but as soon as this happened I got mad about that again too. Am I wrong for wanting to see the phone records? Am I being paranoid? All I can see in my head is them talking on the phone. It's not like I am picturing her cheating on me, it's just I have all this paranoia and anxiety in my head now. I feel like I don't trust her, and like she said why should we stay together if I can't trust her. She is right about that. But I love her. I just want to trust her, I want her to be honest with me about everything. She wants to be independent and not to have to disclose every detail of her life to me. Fine. But she has already crossed the line, multiple times. And now we have a house together, and she says she shouldn't have done that now. She thinks we need some time apart, god only knows how we are going to manage that. She doesn't want to be with someone who doesn't trust her, but yet she does things that create mistrust.

 

Any thoughts are welcome. Sorry if I bored you. . if anyone actually makes it through this, please feel free to write something. Lemme have it, I can take it. I just really really need some honest opinions about what I should do. I just wanna go home and drink

[porter218]

I am soo sorry you are going through this. I am willing to bet she has had extra marital sex with more then one man. Her level of secrecy is that of a serial cheater. You need to stop listening to what she says and make your judgments on her actions. Leave her, her tears that night were crocodile tears. She is only sorry that she got caught not that she did it. She is not likely to change and she seems not to care about your feelings at all. I am one to usually beleive a woman can change..but I wouldn't say that about her at all.

[josh7777777]

I am soo sorry you are going through this. I am willing to bet she has had extra marital sex with more then one man. Her level of secrecy is that of a serial cheater. You need to stop listening to what she says and make your judgments on her actions. Leave her, her tears that night were crocodile tears. She is only sorry that she got caught not that she did it. She is not likely to change and she seems not to care about your feelings at all. I am one to usually beleive a woman can change..but I wouldn't say that about her at all.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have my doubts that she is a serial cheater. . .but I just don't get why I can't see the phone records. It seems like that would prove her honesty in this matter and make me look like a paranoid a-hole who owed her an apology. If this was the other way around, and I was telling the truth, that's definitely what I would do. I've replayed the events around her and her co-worker in my head a million times. . .I guess I'll never really know the extent of what they did.

[porter218]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have my doubts that she is a serial cheater. . .but I just don't get why I can't see the phone records. It seems like that would prove her honesty in this matter and make me look like a paranoid a-hole who owed her an apology. If this was the other way around, and I was telling the truth, that's definitely what I would do. I've replayed the events around her and her co-worker in my head a million times. . .I guess I'll never really know the extent of what they did.

You are still very much in denial about her. She is hiding the phone record until she has come up with a good enough lie about the men she has been calling on it. Also if she insisted on changing her password on the email with that original incident ...it just indicates that she took her A with him further underground. When someone breaks your trust like that in a monogamous relationship you have every right to demand FULL access to ALL her email accounts, cell phone, vehicle etc. She is playing you like a violin. Do what ever you need to do to find out what she is up to. I can tell that you will not beleive that she is cheating until she is caught redhanded...so go on don't be scared to catch her. Put a key- logger on the computer...hack her phone account..and keep up with her emails, but whatever you do , don't tell her that you are keeping tabs on her until you have found her to be conclusively innocent or guilty. If you let her know she will scramble to cover her tracks and make another way to communicate with these men.

[luna3]

i'm sorry, but if he has to do all that to "catch her out" then she was correct in saying that they shouldn't be together at all. if his suspicious are that deep, then they are probably justified.

 

don't misunderstand, i'm not standing up for her behavior, but adult people are entitled to their own privacy and after 18 years of age, one shouldn't be expected to hand over all their keys, passwords, filofax, and allow someone else to open their mail without a court order!

 

as for her behavior, it is telling. she fooled you the first time with the "we just made sloppy-drunken-kissy-faces" and that gave her the go-ahead for the second time around. i would be very, VERY surprised if all they did was snog. as for her ex, she is obviously getting something from that relationship that she doesn't feel she can get from you. if she misses the ex's sex so much, i would feel as insecure as you do. she will likely cheat (again?) if the opportunity presents itself.

 

if you're going to spy, at least do it the honourable way and catch her with her panties down...as in, hire an investigator, get proof, and see your lawyer. don't stand over her like you are her parent, as you will get the same eye-rolling attitude that most teenagers dish out. then, she will make it look like you are being unreasonably controlling....which in some ways, you are if the courts' "presumption of innocence" is correct.

[Rorocher]

If you don't give people a reason to distrust you in the first place, you wouldn't have to deal with snooping and invasion of privacy. And a person who is genuinely sorry about breaking your trust, will do everything they can to regain it, even if it means giving up passwords and phone records. She can always change her passwords after you've verified the things you need to, it's not that big a deal.

 

But when you betray a trust and you then turn around and get defensive, there is definitely something fishy going on.

 

You have been together for a long time, during those critical years when a lot of people date randomly, party and have fun. Perhaps, she's bored, maybe she feels like she missed out and wants to act out.

[porter218]

but adult people are entitled to their own privacy and after 18 years of age, one shouldn't be expected to hand over all their keys, passwords, filofax, and allow someone else to open their mail without a court order!

 

.

Actually ..yes he is entitled to access all of that stuff. I am not talking about a woman that has never been caught cheating..she has been caught cheating and lied about it even after he caught her, until he found more evidence. Any M counselor would agree.

[luna3]

ahh, but you see the parental "tone", don't you? we are supposed to be in relationships with equal, adult people. although i fully realize that oftentimes, one or both fail to act like adults and there are varying levels of equality, it still doesn't sit well with me that he has to catch & punish her like some kid stealing out of the cookie jar when the parental units are asleep.

 

be an adult. you've already confronted her, and didn't get the reassurance you seek, and she is not willing to give it either. get real proof, and then get the hell away if necessary.

 

unless one wants to spend all their time doubting, snooping on the phone log, and trying to catch the other person in some shenanigans which they are already more-than suspected of. but to me, if i have to do all that, it is a sign of perpetual instability. i liken it to living with some kind of addict that i constantly have to patrol for empty bottles, trackmarks, and other things.

[porter218]

ahh, but you see the parental "tone", don't you? we are supposed to be in relationships with equal, adult people. although i fully realize that oftentimes, one or both fail to act like adults and there are varying levels of equality, it still doesn't sit well with me that he has to catch & punish her like some kid stealing out of the cookie jar when the parental units are asleep.

 

be an adult. you've already confronted her, and didn't get the reassurance you seek, and she is not willing to give it either. get real proof, and then get the hell away if necessary.

 

unless one wants to spend all their time doubting, snooping on the phone log, and trying to catch the other person in some shenanigans which they are already more-than suspected of. but to me, if i have to do all that, it is a sign of perpetual instability. i liken it to living with some kind of addict that i constantly have to patrol for empty bottles, trackmarks, and other things.

I don't really get what you are saying...you completely and 100% contradict yourself. I am telling him to catch her and leave. That sounds like what you are saying in part of your post but then you back track and say you shouldn't snoop. Exactly how is he going to catch her if he doesn't snoop? And you also say he should hire a PI...All I am saying is save the money and do it yourself. A PI is going to do the same things you are saying is wrong. Personally I feel like he has enough reason to leave right now, but I think he is someone who will be in denial until he catches her in the act.

[Walk]

I cheated on my exh and reacted like your gf is reacting. Any time my exh would come to me with a suspicion I'd douse it, and then get even more paranoid about him seeing anything that could catch me in a lie. It was all about protecting what I was doing.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this. You probably feel like you're going a bit crazy. You want to trust her, but she isn't helping you to do that. She's become more adament about her sacred privacy and less concerned about your feelings. (That to me is the sure sign she's cheating.) What actions has she shown you that she is trustworthy? Does she introduce you to co-workers? Has she incorporated you into her time with them in any way? Has she allowed you to see for yourself that what she is doing is harmless to your relationship? I think the answer is no to most those. So the only thing that is suggesting she isn't cheating is her word, after she lied to you about the first time... And her actions are that she denied you access to her work email after you found out about the first two incidents. Then she denied you access to her phone list after you found out she called her ex. Actions speak louder then words. The majority of the emphasis should be on what her actions are saying, don't put much stock in her words.

 

I agree with Porter about the keylogger and getting access to her phone records. You have a great deal at stake here, more then a simple issue of privacy. If she is cheating on you then she's risking your health. You need to know.

[Amiss]

I am soo sorry you are going through this. I am willing to bet she has had extra marital sex with more then one man. Her level of secrecy is that of a serial cheater. You need to stop listening to what she says and make your judgments on her actions. Leave her, her tears that night were crocodile tears. She is only sorry that she got caught not that she did it. She is not likely to change and she seems not to care about your feelings at all. I am one to usually beleive a woman can change..but I wouldn't say that about her at all.

 

I agree. Your girlfriend is so secretive it is scary. Don't fool yourself into believing "it was only making out.Twice". It doesn't matter if full sex didn't happen. Your girlfriend has proved to you THREE times that she can't be trusted. You need to tell her it is over ,not because she can't trust you not to snoop, but because she does not deserve to be trusted

[josh7777777]

Sorry for the Tolstoy. . .

Well thanks to everyone who took the time to reply to my initial post. Here's an update to what happened. After my 1st post things settled down after a few days of tension. I decided that I would give her the benefit of the doubt, even though I didn't feel she deserved it. I even bought her flowers as a sign that I wanted to bury the hatchet, so to speak.

 

Things seemed ok for a few weeks, then she started acting suspicious, in my eyes anyway. It seems to me that there are subtle things in her mannerisms when she is trying to hide something. I don't even think she realizes it. Anyway I felt the need to go with a keylogger and again try to figure out what was going on with her cell phone.

 

The tough thing is waiting to have the incriminating evidence. Unfortunately I was only able to see minutes usage on her cell phone (no tracking of the calls placed/received), and that would only get updated about once a day. This in addition to the keylogger on the home PC was all I had to go on. I saw her cell phone minutes spike drastically in the off-peak hours on days where she would have been home and had no reason to use the cell phone. Finally last Thursday while I was at work and checking my logs remotely, she had just typed something incriminating after mostly benign IM conversations that I could only see one side of. She was typing about how "summer was ending" and she was going to miss being able to talk for hours on the phone with him. She mentioned how she had "went out with a guy on Saturday night and thought about how he wasn't as good of a conversationalist as (whoever she was IMing) She was talking about "maybe she wasn't going to be able to fly out and meet him in person after all" and how it "seems like you want to watch sports more than talk to me". Wow. WTF.

 

So that was enough. I decided to leave work early and confront her. Coincidentally, she called me as I was leaving work. I hung up on her, and she called back my cell repeatedly. She knew something was up. So I got home, stormed through the door, and laid it all out there. I knew everything, I knew she had been spending hours on the phone talking to some guy. I called her a f***ing liar and a few other not nice words. I haven't been that pissed off since. . .well since the time I found out she made out with the guy from work 2 times. She tried to respond and I didn't even let her talk. I told her to get out of the house (since it's in my name) and I don't care where she goes.

 

After my initial burst of anger, I got her side of the story. It was a guy she met in some sort of music chat room. Wasn't even the old boyfriend that I had thought it was. She said it was all a "fantasy", but not a sexual one. She said that she was just bored with our relationship and wanted to pretend she had something else going. She never even told the guy she had a boyfriend. Whatever.

 

All this time, all this stress. How could she sleep at night? I don't get it. I've been so stressed out about what she's been doing, it literally consumes me. She actually had the gall to tell me not to violate her privacy when I had no reason, and the whole time I was right.

 

Wow, what a screwed up relationship we have. We are still together, but I told her if I find out she does one thing behind my back then she is out of the house (it's in my name). That is it. I deserve better. I know that I cause a lot of our problems, believe me I could probably qualify for professional help. But I never laid a finger on her, I never even came close to cheating on her, talking to girls behind her back. Nothing like that. The worst thing I ever did along those lines was got drunk and grabbed a co-workers ass at a company outing. I felt so bad I told her the next day. That was like 6 years ago.

 

Unfortunately I have a feeling it's only a matter of time. I really love her, that's what makes this so hard. The logical part of my brain knows she's already used up more than enough chances.

[manugeorge]

How about instead of barring her and dictating who she can and cannot talk to, how about you reexamine your relationship and find out what is making her want to step out on you like this.

 

She is bored, she said so herself. You both need to redirect this energy that you are using to fight each other and snoop into spicing up your relationship again. It's understandable for things to start becoming boring and monotonous after 8 years together. Mature people look for ways to reignite the spark, not look outside the relationship or become PIs.

 

You go around being mad and giving ultimatums and she will keep finding solace in these internet male friends of hers.

 

You love each other, so rediscover each other again.

[josh7777777]

Thanks for the response. You are right that we need to refocus our energy on "reigniting a spark", so to speak.

 

However, it is difficult for me to try to go in that direction when she is being deceitful and dishonest. Expecting her to not fantasize that she has another life and talk to some stranger from the internet on her cell phone for hours on end is not me issuing an "ultimatum", it is a reasonable expectation in any normal relationship. I don't really care if she has friends that are guys, but this was much, much more.

 

I accept that there is problems in our relationship. I would like to work through them, but apparently she would rather play make-believe with some guy that she's never even met.

[manugeorge]

Thanks for the response. You are right that we need to refocus our energy on "reigniting a spark", so to speak.

 

However, it is difficult for me to try to go in that direction when she is being deceitful and dishonest. Expecting her to not fantasize that she has another life and talk to some stranger from the internet on her cell phone for hours on end is not me issuing an "ultimatum", it is a reasonable expectation in any normal relationship. I don't really care if she has friends that are guys, but this was much, much more.

 

I accept that there is problems in our relationship. I would like to work through them, but apparently she would rather play make-believe with some guy that she's never even met.

 

I know, you are right, I'd be mad as hell too at her behavior but sometimes, you just have to lay down your dukes in a relationship no matter how ticked off you are. Seeing the forest for the trees so to speak.

 

It is difficult for you to go in that direction but it doesn't mean it's impossible, put the anger aside for a moment, for the good of the relationship.

[ThumbingMyWay]

We are not married- it's just never been a priority for either one of us.

key word here = priority

 

It seemed to allude to something that had happened "twice" between her and one of her coworkers. I brought this to her attention, and she downplayed it as a couple of times when they went out and smoked a joint together after work

downplayed it....they never tell the full truth right away, it is ALWAYS minimized.

lie #1

I found out that on two occasions they had gotten drunk at work outings and "made out" in the car. I was devastated.

busted #1 and #2

It got to the point where I finally let it go, but probably not until the last 6 months or so.

so she lied, she got busted and you made up.

 

I see her in an email account that I had no knowledge existed. In it were some emails, seemingly innocent in nature, and some pics of some guy. I only got to see one or two of the messages, nothing sexual going on. So I approached her about it, not in a very polite fashion. Apparently, this is a guy that she had a thing for before her and I hooked up. He lives across the country, so it's not like they are going to have a secret rendevous. But I was pissed off that she was doing this behind my back. After all the crap that went on and then lingered from her last extra-curricular activity, she had been corresponding with a former interest of hers behind my back for a few weeks. All of those feeling of mistrust, anger, suspicion, and paranoia came flooding back into my head. We had a huge fight, and she apologized for not just being up front about communicating with the guy. I asked if they had spoken on the phone, and she said one time just to catch up

lied #2, busted #3

 

 

So the past few days I would come home from work with the intention of looking at her cell phone and seeing how many calls she had placed, though I figured they wouldn't be in her history I wanted to take a shot. The past 3 nights when I got home her cell phone was not where it ALWAYS is, in a pocket in her purse. It's there literally 99% of the time unless it is charging or being used. I suspected that she was hiding it from me or something. So tonight I decided I would try to access her online account to see her call history. Well that backfired since it sent her a message that her password was being reset.

hiding cell phone = red flag

 

She called me at work and flipped out, and we had a huge fight. This time she was on the offensive. How dare I invade her privacy and try to spy on her phone records, she again reiterated that they just swapped a few emails and spoke once on the phone. I told her to show me the phone records, so I could have piece of mind. I would apologize if there was only the one call on there.

gaslighting (wikipedia it)

She said that if I don't trust her, that there is no reason for us to be together. I said, why should I trust her?

more gaslighting on her part

 

She wants to be independent and not to have to disclose every detail of her life to me

thats obvious, anyother red flag

 

But she has already crossed the line, multiple times.

1 too many times in my opinion

 

She thinks we need some time apart, god only knows how we are going to manage that. She doesn't want to be with someone who doesn't trust her, but yet she does things that create mistrust

red flag. I want time apart, I dont want someone watching over me.

 

 

but I just don't get why I can't see the phone records. It seems like that would prove her honesty in this matter and make me look like a paranoid a-hole who owed her an apology. If this was the other way around, and I was telling the truth, that's definitely what I would do.

red flag red flag red flag. She dont want you to see it because she has something to hide. There is no other anwser. You said it yourself, if you wanted to prove your innocence, you would give full dislcosure of your cell records.

 

I guess I'll never really know the extent of what they did.

not if you keep laying down.

 

. I decided that I would give her the benefit of the doubt, even though I didn't feel she deserved it

she won again....she got away with it again....you laid down again....

 

Things seemed ok for a few weeks, then she started acting suspicious, in my eyes anyway. It seems to me that there are subtle things in her mannerisms when she is trying to hide something. I don't even think she realizes it. Anyway I felt the need to go with a keylogger and again try to figure out what was going on with her cell phone.

spidy-sense is a wonderfull thing, dont doubt your gut feelings, they are usually correct.

 

 

I saw her cell phone minutes spike drastically in the off-peak hours on days where she would have been home and had no reason to use the cell phone.

redflag

 

 

Finally last Thursday while I was at work and checking my logs remotely, she had just typed something incriminating after mostly benign IM conversations that I could only see one side of. She was typing about how "summer was ending" and she was going to miss being able to talk for hours on the phone with him.

busted number 4

She mentioned how she had "went out with a guy on Saturday night and thought about how he wasn't as good of a conversationalist as (whoever she was IMing) She was talking about "maybe she wasn't going to be able to fly out and meet him in person after all" and how it "seems like you want to watch sports more than talk to me".

she had a date with a guy and has had thoughts about flying to see another guy. Busted #5 and #6

 

I told her to get out of the house (since it's in my name) and I don't care where she goes.

good move...but you caved again...see below

I got her side of the story. It was a guy she met in some sort of music chat room. Wasn't even the old boyfriend that I had thought it was. She said it was all a "fantasy", but not a sexual one. She said that she was just bored with our relationship and wanted to pretend she had something else going. She never even told the guy she had a boyfriend. Whatever.

Again, they rarely tell the truth, only bits and peices, but never the full on truth.

 

She actually had the gall to tell me not to violate her privacy when I had no reason, and the whole time I was right.

there is a reason she didnt want you to know her privacy. because she was hiding something and she knew that you knew it.

Wow, what a screwed up relationship we have. We are still together, but I told her if I find out she does one thing behind my back then she is out of the house (it's in my name).

still together...you caved again, she got way with it again....you see a pattern here?

 

Unfortunately I have a feeling it's only a matter of time. I really love her, that's what makes this so hard. The logical part of my brain knows she's already used up more than enough chances.

well, then damit, listen to your logical brain. It is only a matter of time before she cheats AGAIN.

 

However, it is difficult for me to try to go in that direction when she is being deceitful and dishonest.

then why do you let her stay?. She dont want someone who doesnt trust her, and you dont want someone you cant trust.

 

Expecting her to not fantasize that she has another life and talk to some stranger from the internet on her cell phone for hours on end is not me issuing an "ultimatum", it is a reasonable expectation in any normal relationship. I don't really care if she has friends that are guys, but this was much, much more.

I accept that there is problems in our relationship. I would like to work through them, but apparently she would rather play make-believe with some guy that she's never even met.

no its not an ultimatum. Its a boundary that you need her to keep if she wants to continoue a relationship wiht you.

 

 

Brother re-read what you have posted.

 

She has lied over and over to you, she has minimized it each time. You have caved EACH time. You have flat out busted her on all of it, but yet you gave in everytime.

 

She has stated 2 times about time away from each other. You own the home, she dont. You said your self, its only a matter of time, so why wait for her to crush your self esteem AGAIN. I would call her bluff and ask her to leave. You need to take some offensive here man. She shes you as a doormat, a scared puppy and she uses that againts you.

Tough love my friend. She needs to see that you arent going to take her bahviour any more. Your not even married!!!!, you hold the keys, but you keep hanging them back up.

 

If you want any chance at ALL. You need to ask her to leave and go complete no contact wiht her. Take some time to re-evaluate what you want in life and in a relationship. Because this certianly isnt what you want is it?

 

Then if by chance, she does come back and is remorseful, then you must both seek counsling so that you can both be on the same page as far as bounderies and commitment.

 

I dunno man....but if you stay in this relationship AS IS, you WILL get burnt again.

[Fell_on_black_days]

I just read your whole story, the initial one and the update. and i have to say, i wasnt suprised when i read about the update. The face that she didnt want you to see her phone records and was so defensive, makes it seem like she had something to hide, but she was being manipulative, hiding behind the 'privacy right" issue. and im sure you felt horrible snooping around like that, but i understand that you had no choice. I am in a similar situation, and i know how it can drive you insane not trusting the person you love, and going behind their backs t snoop around, its low and degrading and we are adults and shouldnt have to act this way, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do, otherwise you would be a fool.

 

I can also understand her excuse of feeling bored or needing to recindle the spark as you said, but that does not justify what she did, she should have talked to you and let her feelings be known then doing what she did. and weather her 'fling' was only an online thing, or with her co-worker if it was just 'a drunken make out session', that is not acceptable no matter what. and if she was just drunk and made out with her co-worker then why did it happen again? and i dont know about all you guys, but personally i would never allow myself to be that drunk infront of a person i have a professional relationship with, somebody that i will have to see daily and work with, its just not a proper way to behave with somebody you work with. but maybe she subconsiously allowed it to happen because it was new and exciting to her.

 

we all miss that new and exciting feeling of meeting somebody new, and the attention you get from that other new person. but we are not animals we should be able to control ourselves. and if she is feeling bored then why didnt she talk to you about it, and especially after the drunk make out session was brought up the first time, that would have been a perfect opportunity for her to tell you how she felt. and she had many more opportunities after that as well, but she seemed to go more out of her way to hide things and continue these relationships with other men then to come clean and tell you how she felt, she only said what she said AFTER you caught her 'in the act'. Which to me seems a cover up, to distract you from what she was really doing and turning it around and making you feel bad, that somehow this was your fault because you let the spark die. and it isnt your fault, even if you let the spark die, she was there and she was involved just as much as you were, it takes two.

 

i believe she might do this again, and next time, if there is a next time will be far much more devestating to you. i know you love her and want to trust her, but do you really want to live your life always looking behind your back, always wanting to sneak that look at her cell phone when shes in the shower, all those things that you feel bad about, but just cant help doing? its a vicous cycle that will end up hurting you both. besides now that she knows your techniques, next time she will be much more careful and cover her tracks better, and what if you never find out, can you live with that, that she might be making a fool of you and you dont know.

 

all these doubts can never amount to anything good, its hard to build trust that is lost, but sometimes all these doubts are better left in the past, better moving on now then getting hurt more or further down the road, after that trust had built again, then you would never forgive yourself for doing something about it when you had the chance the first time, or when all the signs were there.

 

i know i might not be helping much at all, but i just wana be honest, because that is how i feel right now after my husband cheated on me, even though he hasnt done it since, and its been a while, i still have those same issues you do, that thing in the back of my head that is asking me if he really is with his friends, or if his battery really did die and thats why his cell phone was off. its just not right to live this way, especially with somebody that you should be in love with.

 

Good luck

[Fell_on_black_days]

I loved Thumbingmyway's technique of laying points out for you like that. Because it does sound like you keep going back on your word, because you love her i understand that, but really, look at this, all the ways shes gon out of her way and manipulated the truth and will only admit to something when is caught. going on dates and intending to fly to see some guy, what do u think would have happend if she had? you dont think she would have slept with him?! thats too close for comfort. are you waiting to come home and catch her in bed with another guy for you to realize whats going on. hurting your heart is one thing, but hurting your intelligence and pride is a whole other. you might love her but love shouldnt make you stupid.

[sandrawg]

I can also understand her excuse of feeling bored or needing to recindle the spark as you said, but that does not justify what she did, she should have talked to you and let her feelings be known then doing what she did. and weather her 'fling' was only an online thing, or with her co-worker if it was just 'a drunken make out session', that is not acceptable no matter what. and if she was just drunk and made out with her co-worker then why did it happen again? and i dont know about all you guys, but personally i would never allow myself to be that drunk infront of a person i have a professional relationship with, somebody that i will have to see daily and work with, its just not a proper way to behave with somebody you work with. but maybe she subconsiously allowed it to happen because it was new and exciting to her.

 

I TOTALLY could NOT agree more. NO excuse for the drunken make out session; no excuse to slam you in front of some guy she's not just flirting with, but plannign to meet!! (Re-read her IM and smell the coffee!)

 

Dude, I'm in your position. I know EXACTLY how you feel. Read some of my older posts. My bf lied to me every which way from Sunday about his ex.

 

I could not continue the rel'ship, because my distrust has been seeping into every nook and cranny. He likes to go out to bars-I can't handle it, cuz I'm thinking about who he's flirting with, or if he's doing something he's gonna lie to me about.

 

You will absolutely drive yourself nuts with worry if you stay with this woman. And as other very wise posters also pointed out, she is getting positive reinforcement by you just submitting to her and letting her treat you like dirt.

[lkjh]

damn, do you ever learn? You have caught her cheating on you multiple times even if a few of them were just EA's. You are asking to be betrayed.