Love vs. ROmantic love

[SmartWoman321]

Ok- so many people have a problem with the saying "I love him/her but I am not IN LOVE with him/her"---I have noticed that every time someone posts that, they get a slew of responses that say that you can't expect to have that "in love" feeling forever and that the down-to-earth, non-chemistry "love" feeling in a marriage is to be expected and all that CAN be expected over time.

For many years, before I recently filed for D, I too used that experession- "I love him but I am not IN love with him"--I used it because thats how I thought I felt. And its still how I feel, thats why I am divorcing. But , because people don't understand this unless they have been thru the frustration of feeling it, I think I need to change my words to "I care about him, but I do not have romantic love for him". SO I am wondering, will people now say "well, after a few years thats how it is SUPPOSED to be!"

I have asked relatives and freinds this exact question, and those that are still in happy marriages say that they DO feel "in love" with their spouse still, that they DO have "romantic" love for them. So there MUST be a difference. I think that if you are IN this situation, you know it. You know the difference, you know the difference in the "feelings". But I suppose if I substitute the work "Love" from now on to say that I CARE about him but do not romantically LOVE him, maybe that will help people understand better. But I am sure that there will be many people who say that "romantic" love isn't neccessary either for a marriage. But I think it is. I really do. It's hard to make love to someone you think of as a "brother" or "sister". I just couln't do it anymore. Unless I had a few beers. It will be so wonderful to have sober sex again someday, if I am ever blessed enough to feel romantic love again.

[TrustInYourself]

There's a difference.

 

It's a matter of meeting or ignoring the emotional needs of your partner. After time, ignoring your needs and your spouses needs lead to anger then indifference. After an extended period of indifference, you get the dreaded "Love, but not IN LOVE" feeling.

 

At some point, you get so involved with the daily grind and the day to day schedule and chores of raising a family, you forget that it takes serious sexual/romantic/loving/emotional/sensual attention on both sides to keep a marriage "IN LOVE".

[TrustInYourself]

Ok- so many people have a problem with the saying "I love him/her but I am not IN LOVE with him/her"---I have noticed that every time someone posts that, they get a slew of responses that say that you can't expect to have that "in love" feeling forever and that the down-to-earth, non-chemistry "love" feeling in a marriage is to be expected and all that CAN be expected over time.

For many years, before I recently filed for D, I too used that experession- "I love him but I am not IN love with him"--I used it because thats how I thought I felt. And its still how I feel, thats why I am divorcing. But , because people don't understand this unless they have been thru the frustration of feeling it, I think I need to change my words to "I care about him, but I do not have romantic love for him". SO I am wondering, will people now say "well, after a few years thats how it is SUPPOSED to be!"

I have asked relatives and freinds this exact question, and those that are still in happy marriages say that they DO feel "in love" with their spouse still, that they DO have "romantic" love for them. So there MUST be a difference. I think that if you are IN this situation, you know it. You know the difference, you know the difference in the "feelings". But I suppose if I substitute the work "Love" from now on to say that I CARE about him but do not romantically LOVE him, maybe that will help people understand better. But I am sure that there will be many people who say that "romantic" love isn't neccessary either for a marriage. But I think it is. I really do. It's hard to make love to someone you think of as a "brother" or "sister". I just couln't do it anymore. Unless I had a few beers. It will be so wonderful to have sober sex again someday, if I am ever blessed enough to feel romantic love again.

 

The feeling can be mutual when both marriage partners accept a relationship where they are mutual friends in a "brother/sister" relationship. As I said, years of indifference create this situation. It doesn't change overnight. It takes years of efforts and loving selflessness to repair or regain. Sometimes it may never come back after a long enough time.

[Ronni_W]

I don't think the words we use are gonna change those types of responses. (because) If "they" acknowledge that those feelings OUGHT to be very much a part of a long and happy relationship, then they are that much closer to having to reach conclusion that they are not in one...not a good prospect to have to face, so let's just pretend this is as good as it can get, and tell everyone else that they can't have it any better than we do.

 

And the people who understand exactly what you are saying, have made a conscious choice to stay in their "down-to-earth", non-ecstatic relationship (which is a good thing), or have left such a relationship in search of something closer to what they really want (which is also a good thing.)

 

My take is that individuals who believe that one cannot or "should not" expect the feelings that you're talking about to last forever, are possibly people who are SETTLING for what they have instead finding the courage, strength, worthiness, and whatever else, to pursue what they deserve and what they truly desire -- which can be just having to make extra effort to bring it into their current relationship, of course; or may mean a split.

[TrustInYourself]

I don't think you have to go out and find someone new when you face these feelings.

 

It's a simple matter of addressing the situation and demanding change. Two people can make the necessary changes to fall back in love. It happened once, it can certainly happen again.

 

The problem is, most couples feel so hopeless at that point, they don't even bother.

 

I'm not condemning those couples. To each their own.

[quankanne]

The problem is, most couples feel so hopeless at that point, they don't even bother.

 

I don't deny that romantic love must be present in a healthy relationship, but I somehow think that the people who start complaining about not being "in love" with their partner don't look past that feeling to find out why they feel this way or what can be done to re-ignite the spark. This is where the "fake it til you make it" thing kicks in. Even when you DO care about your S/O spouse in every sense of the word.

[Ronni_W]

What if "fake it till you make it" turns out to be some crackpot's idea of just a cute rhyme? Or, an honest yet incomplete (and thus potentially harmful) misinterpretation of the Abundance/Attraction tool to "act as if"?

'Acting as if', in this context, has much to do with Trusting the Universe, feeling completely worthy of whatever we wish to attract, etc. Nothing too much about "fake" or insincerity or 'not genuine' -- which is where some people get stumped in their attempts to "fake it till I make it."

[TrustInYourself]

What if "fake it till you make it" turns out to be some crackpot's idea of just a cute rhyme? Or, an honest yet incomplete (and thus potentially harmful) misinterpretation of the Abundance/Attraction tool to "act as if"?

'Acting as if', in this context, has much to do with Trusting the Universe, feeling completely worthy of whatever we wish to attract, etc. Nothing too much about "fake" or insincerity or 'not genuine' -- which is where some people get stumped in their attempts to "fake it till I make it."

 

What is the abundance/attraction tool? I had a hard time understanding what you are trying to convey here.

[Ronni_W]

I had a hard time understanding what you are trying to convey here.

Sorry. One of the "steps" (tools) in the 'Law of Attraction' process is to 'act as if', which kinda sounds like a suggestion to "fake it till you make it" but isn't, when one puts it in context of the whole LoA process.

 

Every second marriage counselor, it seems, has gone nuts with this "fake it till you make it" advice -- I'm just wondering about that. What if their (the MCs') understanding of it is all skewed? And they're facilitating clients feeling fake and unauthentic? Not deliberately, but still.

(I started wondering about this due to a different thread -- what if "fake it till you make it" turns out to be somewhat of hogwash, or at least, in its current understanding, not as helpful as it's intended to be?)

 

Hope that didn't confuse you even more...cos I'm feeling more like I know what I mean than I actually conveyed what I mean .

 

My point to the OP was that "fake it till you make it" might be, but is not necessarily, the "best medicine" when one is in search of those "in love" feelings. It may call for application of some personal beliefs and opinions.

[LakesideDream]

"I love you, but I'm not in love with you" is one of the most trite, despicable, hurtful phrases extent.

 

IMO It should never be uttered. Tell the truth instead! Try, I've found someone else. Or, I don't want to live with you anymore.

 

ILYBIANILWY is such total bullscrip it make me want to throw up everytime I read or hear it. Own your actions and feelings!

[SmartWoman321]

LOL- you are the type of person I was referring to in the original post. I believe that you truely feel the way you described- but what you are doing is telling other people HOW to feel or WHAT they feel. I can honestly say I love my stbx but am not "in love " with him....how do I know? because I have been "in love" with others. Also, because I "love" others (my mom, my brother, my best friend, my child)....now- if I were to assign my stbx to one of those categories, meaning- the feeling that I have most resembling- it would be to the latter. The love I have for him is like a best friend, a brother. It is not the "in loveness" I have felt for other certain romantic relationships in my past. There is a difference. And if I choose, I can apply the "love" vs. "in love" descriptions very, very accurately to my feelings. No one can tell me that I cannot. BUT because there are many, many people like you who really have such a hard time understanding the difference, hm...then , as I suggested in my OP, one should simply change the phrase to "I care about my stbx /SO very much, but I do not feel romantic love for them". Same thing, diiferent wording, better understanding. :-)

[J2FT1]

LOL- you are the type of person I was referring to in the original post. I believe that you truely feel the way you described- but what you are doing is telling other people HOW to feel or WHAT they feel. I can honestly say I love my stbx but am not "in love " with him....how do I know? because I have been "in love" with others. Also, because I "love" others (my mom, my brother, my best friend, my child)....now- if I were to assign my stbx to one of those categories, meaning- the feeling that I have most resembling- it would be to the latter. The love I have for him is like a best friend, a brother. It is not the "in loveness" I have felt for other certain romantic relationships in my past. There is a difference. And if I choose, I can apply the "love" vs. "in love" descriptions very, very accurately to my feelings. No one can tell me that I cannot. BUT because there are many, many people like you who really have such a hard time understanding the difference, hm...then , as I suggested in my OP, one should simply change the phrase to "I care about my stbx /SO very much, but I do not feel romantic love for them". Same thing, diiferent wording, better understanding. :-)

 

What is being "in love" in your opinion? Are they not the same thing with one phrase having the word "in"?

[the2gman]

All I know is it hurts to be on the recieving end of "i love you but i'm not in love"......

[pandagirl]

There's a difference between losing the "romance" in a relationship -- the passion, head over heels, butterflies -- and literally feeling dead inside emotionally for your significant other.

 

Most relationships lose those beginning exciting feelings of "romantic love," in fact those feelings/emotions are mostly due to chemicals in our brain that usually only last two years. Still, romantic love can still evolve into affection, tender caring and adoration. This is what is known as "companiate love" and it's what keeps couple together for the long haul, which is why it's important to base a marriage not on those fleeting emotional feelings of romance, but really truly LIKING the person and getting to know and appreciate them for who they are.

 

However, if you really just see your wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend as making you feel NOTHING -- you don't want to have physical contact with them, sex, etc -- then there is a problem! I agree with the poster who said you can regain that intimacy with some effort on both sides. Love just doesn't *happen*, we make it happen.

[carhill]

"I think I still have feelings for you"

 

It's like a model T with a stripped hand crank and no magneto

 

Heard in MC this week.... but, you know, things are looking up, in some alternative universe.

 

I know what the OP is talking about. Articulating it (the "bad" news) properly and in a sensitive and caring manner is the really tough part. Personally, I think not ever hearing the words, but rather the party quietly slipping away, is far more brutal emotionally. No closure.

 

I tried to explain that elemental connection once to my wife in the most articulate details I could muster. She opined that she had never felt that way about anyone. I wasn't offended, hurt, or dismayed; rather I had mixed feelings. Part for me felt sorry for her and part of me envied her. She has never known such joy or such pain. Hard to choose. Perhaps it is true that we are only given those burdens which we can each bear.

[Trimmer]

Well, I guess I have to give my wife credit - she kept to a very concise: "I just don't love you any more and I don't want to be married to you." Give her credit for not waffling or sugar-coating it...

 

One problem is that, while the OP may really have considered her feelings and believes that this is the best way to describe them, I believe a lot of "leaving" partners use this phrase much more thoughtlessly - either believing that it lets them squeak out while providing some kind of consolation (when in fact, it mostly creates confusion,) or that it shuts off any objections (again, by frustrating the other partner into silence...) or is often used as a lame front while hiding an affair. Even in the affair scenario, it may be technically true, but it certainly isn't honest.

 

So to the OP, I'm not going to tell you how you should feel, by any means, and I do trust you that this accurately describes your feeling as best you can do. But if you're inclined to consider how it sounds to your husband and how it makes him feel, realize that although it seems to nicely and concisely wrap up the whole situation from your perspective, for him it is just the opening of the can of worms. I completely believe it makes sense to the partner saying it, and I also completely believe that most of the time, the other partner ends up thinking "WTF does that mean?"

 

My other thought on this subject is that, although my comments above address how this phrase resonates between partners in a breakup, a lot of your thoughts seem to focus on the perceptions of those outside your relationship, how to "explain" it to them, and how their comments come back to influence you. My thought on that is, it's none of their business, and neither do you owe them an explanation, nor should you allow their impressions and comments to color or influence your thoughts. You have more important things on which to focus.

 

There - I did end up telling you what to do after all...

[Ocean-Blue]

Ok- so many people have a problem with the saying "I love him/her but I am not IN LOVE with him/her"---I have noticed that every time someone posts that, they get a slew of responses that say that you can't expect to have that "in love" feeling forever and that the down-to-earth, non-chemistry "love" feeling in a marriage is to be expected and all that CAN be expected over time.

For many years, before I recently filed for D, I too used that experession- "I love him but I am not IN love with him"--I used it because thats how I thought I felt. And its still how I feel, thats why I am divorcing. But , because people don't understand this unless they have been thru the frustration of feeling it, I think I need to change my words to "I care about him, but I do not have romantic love for him". SO I am wondering, will people now say "well, after a few years thats how it is SUPPOSED to be!"

I have asked relatives and freinds this exact question, and those that are still in happy marriages say that they DO feel "in love" with their spouse still, that they DO have "romantic" love for them. So there MUST be a difference. I think that if you are IN this situation, you know it. You know the difference, you know the difference in the "feelings". But I suppose if I substitute the work "Love" from now on to say that I CARE about him but do not romantically LOVE him, maybe that will help people understand better. But I am sure that there will be many people who say that "romantic" love isn't neccessary either for a marriage. But I think it is. I really do. It's hard to make love to someone you think of as a "brother" or "sister". I just couln't do it anymore. Unless I had a few beers. It will be so wonderful to have sober sex again someday, if I am ever blessed enough to feel romantic love again.

 

I agree that romantic love isn't necessary for a happy marriage. I know couples who are together (and happy) but do not have romantic love (i.e. they were brought together via an arranged marriage and agreed to the marriage to please their family).

 

It depends on the person really. Some people need that high to maintain a relationship. Maybe it gives them a sense of purpose or destiny? I dunno...

 

I do know that I need to feel in love for a relationship to work. Otherwise, it's like dating my brother.

 

And that's just eww.

[Ocean-Blue]

I don't think the words we use are gonna change those types of responses. (because) If "they" acknowledge that those feelings OUGHT to be very much a part of a long and happy relationship, then they are that much closer to having to reach conclusion that they are not in one...not a good prospect to have to face, so let's just pretend this is as good as it can get, and tell everyone else that they can't have it any better than we do.

 

And the people who understand exactly what you are saying, have made a conscious choice to stay in their "down-to-earth", non-ecstatic relationship (which is a good thing), or have left such a relationship in search of something closer to what they really want (which is also a good thing.)

 

My take is that individuals who believe that one cannot or "should not" expect the feelings that you're talking about to last forever, are possibly people who are SETTLING for what they have instead finding the courage, strength, worthiness, and whatever else, to pursue what they deserve and what they truly desire -- which can be just having to make extra effort to bring it into their current relationship, of course; or may mean a split.

 

Excellent post!

 

I totally agree with you what you say here.

 

I was in a situation where I loved my partner but was NOT in love with him. It was a dark, desolate world for me. However, I convinced myself that romantic love was overrated or that it was for me...or that other people were lying to themselves...or that their love was as "real" as our "pure" love.

 

I didn't enjoy kissing him.

 

I'm so glad I had the courage to leave. I've taken a lot of slack for doing what I did, but I'm very glad I did. Now he's with someone who most likely loves him in that passionate, "mmmmmmm" way and I'm with some has made me forget a former (most favourite) question of mine: "how do you know?!"

[the2gman]

Many of you are very strong-willed people. its funny because in my professional world at work I am too. I hope someday soon, REALLY soon, I am there and will see things through my intellect, not my emotions. I flip flop between being a wuss, and being strong. I need to be stronger. I think that comes with time and my working on my self, my self-esteem. This site helps me see how others are dealing with it, and how I will eventually get over it. Thank you all...one day at a time for me.

[carhill]

Think about how you focus and organize your intellect to approach your world. It's the same with emotions. They can be focused and organized to create a powerful positive force in your life. Make what you think are "weaknesses" into strengths

 

Emotional awareness and emotional intelligence are powerful positives in a person's life, IMO. I think they're the essence of "in love"

[quankanne]

What if "fake it till you make it" turns out to be some crackpot's idea of just a cute rhyme?

 

oh, it's real. Whether in the work environment (when you're handed an assignment you have no idea how to accomplish), at home (when some kind of domestic problem pops up and you have to figure out a solution before blowing money you ain't got on a professional to assess the problem), to your lovelife (when you're so angry/upset with your spouse you want to pinch his head off ... but you don't). I think it's a reminder that we don't just act or give up without a fair assessment of said problem.

 

I know how hard it is to tell someone you love them when you're so dang mad at them you just want them to fall off the face of the earth. Yet you do say those words – or do that considerate deed – because you understand that your conditional feelings have nothing to do with acting on good behavior.

[the2gman]

Carhill .. you're so right. I KNOW how to think through it. If I take a deep breath and use my intellect, I can walk my heart through the emotions. But sometimes my emotions come up and SMACK me in the back and knock me out emotionally for a while, at least until my intellect takes over.

 

quankanne ... it is hard to go through the day without feeling down...it is getting easier. But its not easy!

[Ladyjane14]

Think about how you focus and organize your intellect to approach your world. It's the same with emotions. They can be focused and organized to create a powerful positive force in your life. Make what you think are "weaknesses" into strengths

 

Emotional awareness and emotional intelligence are powerful positives in a person's life, IMO. I think they're the essence of "in love"

 

Exactly. The problem with the "ILYBNIOWY" set is that they are focused exclusively on their own emotional response to stimuli. They rely on "data input" from another person for their happiness and contentment. They adhere to a romanticized version of love without attempting to evolve past the Infatuation stage.

 

And this is where "fake it 'til you make it" comes into play. It's not about 'talking yourself into something'. It's about building new relationship HABITS that allow the love to flow. This is a technique which allows for evolution to the next level. That is... if "the next level" is where you WANT to be.

 

We can make our choices with our heart or with our logical mind. If your logical mind tells you that there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the mate you have, that he's as good as any other you might meet... then there's no reason to be led around by your own emotions. Emotions are changeable from day to day, from moment to moment. They're whimsical things. Logic is not.

 

Now, that doesn't sound terribly "romantic", but for the romance crowd... in order to keep a biochemical reaction going, they're going to need to change partners every two to four years.

That amounts to an almost constant state of upheaval, difficulties raising children, difficulties building a retirement account... and for what? Just to trade in one set of problems for another?

It's not like every new partner isn't going to come with his own set of baggage.

 

I think maybe it's different if there are CONCRETE problems, if the mate one is contemplating leaving is defective in some way that makes it impossible to work with him, if there's so much water under the bridge that it's not worth breaking out the rowboat. I even think it's possible to develop a physical aversion to your mate through biochemical changes or through resentment built up to a nearly traumatic level. I think there are a myriad of definable reasons why a person might want to end a marriage.

 

But IMHO, "ILYBNILWY" is not one of them. On it's own, it seems an evasion of growth... and an unnecessary cruelty for the partner who's being DUMPED.

[quankanne]

It's about building new relationship HABITS that allow the love to flow.

 

hmmm ... could it be considered a kind of positive reinforcement kind of thing? As twoGman points out, the process can be hard, but it gradually becomes easier because we redirect our minds to the task.

 

as for relying solely on romantic love to sustain passion in a relationship, well, frankly that kind of thinking scares me. If my attraction to my mate is chemical in nature, what is going to keep me around in the long haul, when normal issues start popping up? There *has* to be a bedrock underlying my relationship with my spouse, otherwise I cannot make that leap of faith into our mutual future ... romantic love is just a part of the relationship, not the whole.

[carhill]

Active behaviors, interdependence, and shared philosophy is the epoxy. Romantic love is the catalyst for that epoxy. It's what "sets" the epoxy.

 

Simple version: I can behave in a loving way, depend on my mate, share many of her philosophies of life and have a great day to day relationship with her. Without that extra ingredient, the romantic love part, it's a two-dimensional emotional process. The romantic chemistry is the third dimension, the one which, over a lifetime, strengthens the breadth and depth of those otherwise elemental bonds.

 

Now, to find a like-minded woman I seem to attract those who are comfortable and satisfied with two dimensions....