Conversation and e-mail from Dr. Harley

[SingleDad]

I spoke with Dr. Harley personally by phone today about my situation "How to start from scratch in 12 month separation"

 

He had some great advice and here is his e-mail:

 

Hi Jim,

 

You have the inside track when it comes to winning your wife's love, because you're the father of her child. Your problems may have been ongoing long before your child arrived, but after that happened, your failure to provide her with support and encouragement probably provided the final nails in your marital coffin. The way to win her back is to become her best friend, and you can do that by helping her any way you can. At first it may seem as if you are being used by her, with her giving you very little credit (she may think you are doing it for your daughter), but after a while, your support may trigger her love for you. If there's another man involved, there's nothing like an ex-husband, who is always around, to make life less than romantic. Besides, if you're doing all the helping, what would she need another man for? Don't ever argue with her, and call regularly. If she is willing to go out with you (without your daughter), consider it a bonus. Raise your daughter the way your wife wants her raised. It sound like a white-flag approach to marital reconciliation, but from the way your letter reads, you're losing her.

 

Remember, you have more to offer her than any other man because you're the father of her child. When she finally figures that out, you'll be back together again.

 

Best wishes

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

[Owl]

And there you go...this is the "carrot" of plan A...from the man himself.

[Ladyjane14]

How weird. I was just on my way to post to your other thread and tell you... to stop fighting with her about child rearing and to go ahead and stick to your birthday plans.

 

I'll post it there. But before I go... please be careful on that site. I can't stress it enough. Take your information DIRECTLY from the doctor and from his written work, and then interpret it for yourself. Nobody knows your situation like you do. You're "the man on the ground".

[quankanne]

I don't know, SD, some of the advice sounds like he wants you to become a wimp in the relationship: Yes, go out of your way to avoid arguments, but IRL, they're sometimes unavoidable. You'd be better off learning how to fight constructively/fairly so that your wife understands your position and that you need to find a compromise to make it work best for both of you.

 

same thing with child-rearing: It's something y'all need to do together, even though you are living apart. There's so much room for problems by letting one parent call the tune and then the child knows he can play his parents against each other.

[SingleDad]

So much great advice... The hard part is being able to follow it.

 

Yes I may be able to win her back if I become exactly the person she wants - she wins (and I sacrifice myself entirely).

 

Or do not agree nor do everything she wants and she is gone forever and we will have arguments about our daughter for years to come - and I have my daughter only 3 days per week - assuming she does not go for more custody.

 

Very difficult place to be.

[Owl]

How weird. I was just on my way to post to your other thread and tell you... to stop fighting with her about child rearing and to go ahead and stick to your birthday plans.

 

I'll post it there. But before I go... please be careful on that site. I can't stress it enough. Take your information DIRECTLY from the doctor and from his written work, and then interpret it for yourself. Nobody knows your situation like you do. You're "the man on the ground".

 

I would echo this, and the suggestion that LJ made about avoiding the forum there.

 

The anger, the vitriol, the 'clique' that exists make LS look like Wonka's chocolate garden in comparison.

[Owl]

OK...you're going negative here man. Stop that...pity parties get you NOTHING.

 

Why are you convinced the only way you'll win is if you give yourself up entirely??????

 

Dude...enough.

 

This is why you need to get working on SOME changes, and you need to learn where to draw lines so that you maintain some RESPECT.

 

You PICK your battles very, very carefully.

 

And you seek COMPROMISES.

 

If you can only view this as "her way, or my way"...pack it in and go home. Because that mindset is worse than useless.

 

Why not seek MIDDLE ground that's probably better than EITHER hers or yours?

[TrustInYourself]

Oompa, Loompa, doopity-dee. I have a secret, let me tell thee.

[SingleDad]

Ok OK - I'll work on middle ground and no arguing

[SmartWoman321]

I spoke with Dr. Harley personally by phone today about my situation "How to start from scratch in 12 month separation"

 

He had some great advice and here is his e-mail:

 

Hi Jim,

 

You have the inside track when it comes to winning your wife's love, because you're the father of her child. Your problems may have been ongoing long before your child arrived, but after that happened, your failure to provide her with support and encouragement probably provided the final nails in your marital coffin. The way to win her back is to become her best friend, and you can do that by helping her any way you can. At first it may seem as if you are being used by her, with her giving you very little credit (she may think you are doing it for your daughter), but after a while, your support may trigger her love for you. If there's another man involved, there's nothing like an ex-husband, who is always around, to make life less than romantic. Besides, if you're doing all the helping, what would she need another man for? Don't ever argue with her, and call regularly. If she is willing to go out with you (without your daughter), consider it a bonus. Raise your daughter the way your wife wants her raised. It sound like a white-flag approach to marital reconciliation, but from the way your letter reads, you're losing her.

 

Remember, you have more to offer her than any other man because you're the father of her child. When she finally figures that out, you'll be back together again.

 

Best wishes

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

 

Wow- I have no idea who Dr. Harley is. And I don't know what the OPs story is. But---I just have to say that my ex was always doing things for me, trying to be my best freind, respected me as the mother of his children, etc. always helping. But you know what? That really didn't mean much- didn't do anything for the relationship, that stuff wasn't improtant to me- any guy could do all that. If the feelings are dead and gone, they are dead and gone. OP, I am not sure you should waste your time doing all that.....being her cheerful, dependable handy-man might not win her back.

[Touche]

I don't know who Dr. Harley is either but it sounds like he's trying to turn you into a wimp.

 

Be as cooperative as you can for the sake of your child but if you're bending over backwards and walking on eggs just to get your ex back, it won't work.

 

As a woman, I can tell you that I fall in love with a man because of who he is and how he makes me feel...not what he can do for me.

 

My H can do whatever he wants for me but that's not what makes me love him. It's who he IS that makes me love him...not what he does for me.

 

In fact, let me tell you this...he once did something that I really didn't like. And it was on our wedding day to boot! But in the end I understand that he did what he had to do that day because of the man he is...the man I fell in love with. It wasn't something I wanted him to do though.

 

Do you see my point?

 

I've only seen some of your posts in passing so I don't know the full story but my gut is telling me that your wife has moved on and there's no going back.

 

You should start to let go of her and just keep things civil for your child. You'll be much happier in the long run.

[TrustInYourself]

I spoke with Dr. Harley personally by phone today about my situation "How to start from scratch in 12 month separation"

 

He had some great advice and here is his e-mail:

 

Hi Jim,

 

You have the inside track when it comes to winning your wife's love, because you're the father of her child. Your problems may have been ongoing long before your child arrived, but after that happened, your failure to provide her with support and encouragement probably provided the final nails in your marital coffin. The way to win her back is to become her best friend, and you can do that by helping her any way you can. At first it may seem as if you are being used by her, with her giving you very little credit (she may think you are doing it for your daughter), but after a while, your support may trigger her love for you. If there's another man involved, there's nothing like an ex-husband, who is always around, to make life less than romantic. Besides, if you're doing all the helping, what would she need another man for? Don't ever argue with her, and call regularly. If she is willing to go out with you (without your daughter), consider it a bonus. Raise your daughter the way your wife wants her raised. It sound like a white-flag approach to marital reconciliation, but from the way your letter reads, you're losing her.

 

Remember, you have more to offer her than any other man because you're the father of her child. When she finally figures that out, you'll be back together again.

 

Best wishes

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

 

Wow- I have no idea who Dr. Harley is. And I don't know what the OPs story is. But---I just have to say that my ex was always doing things for me, trying to be my best freind, respected me as the mother of his children, etc. always helping. But you know what? That really didn't mean much- didn't do anything for the relationship, that stuff wasn't improtant to me- any guy could do all that. If the feelings are dead and gone, they are dead and gone. OP, I am not sure you should waste your time doing all that.....being her cheerful, dependable handy-man might not win her back.

 

Every woman is different. The key is identifying what makes you feel in love. Your husband just forgot how and what makes you feel butterflies. Think back to before you were married to the moment he was romantic and you could not deny him. Surely there was a time where romance existed. If he was doing those things again, maybe sometime would have stirred in your heart. Maybe.

 

Thanks for your post. I love to hear women's perspectives on this. Take care.

[TrustInYourself]

I don't know who Dr. Harley is either but it sounds like he's trying to turn you into a wimp.

 

Be as cooperative as you can for the sake of your child but if you're bending over backwards and walking on eggs just to get your ex back, it won't work.

 

As a woman, I can tell you that I fall in love with a man because of who he is and how he makes me feel...not what he can do for me.

 

My H can do whatever he wants for me but that's not what makes me love him. It's who he IS that makes me love him...not what he does for me.

 

In fact, let me tell you this...he once did something that I really didn't like. And it was on our wedding day to boot! But in the end I understand that he did what he had to do that day because of the man he is...the man I fell in love with. It wasn't something I wanted him to do though.

 

Do you see my point?

 

I've only seen some of your posts in passing so I don't know the full story but my gut is telling me that your wife has moved on and there's no going back.

 

You should start to let go of her and just keep things civil for your child. You'll be much happier in the long run.

 

Who he is a reflection of his behavior, actions, thoughts, emotions.

 

You're right about knowing that your husband's actions are part of who he is. That's the point of what this egghead author is conveying.

 

If your husband didn't do or say or think the way he did, he wouldn't be your husband. The key is identifying and remembering our natural state. The way we were when we were single and free. That attractive person that originally brought our spouse to us.

 

It's not about trying to do nice things or rebuild love by actions. It's about reclaiming the man inside. It's about reclaiming ourselves.

 

That's why I have such an issue with SD's posts and thoughts. It's not going to change the situation, no matter how much you are there for her or how much you do for her. It's about being the person you are meant to be. It's about not letting your wife stop you from being that person. No matter how much crap she gives you about a doggy door in the bedroom or a dress she can't find.

[Touche]

Who he is a reflection of his behavior, actions, thoughts, emotions.

 

You're right about knowing that your husband's actions are part of who he is. That's the point of what this egghead author is conveying.

 

If your husband didn't do or say or think the way he did, he wouldn't be your husband. The key is identifying and remembering our natural state. The way we were when we were single and free. That attractive person that originally brought our spouse to us.

 

It's not about trying to do nice things or rebuild love by actions. It's about reclaiming the man inside. It's about reclaiming ourselves.

 

That's why I have such an issue with SD's posts and thoughts. It's not going to change the situation, no matter how much you are there for her or how much you do for her. It's about being the person you are meant to be. It's about not letting your wife stop you from being that person. No matter how much crap she gives you about a doggy door in the bedroom or a dress she can't find.

 

Nicely said. I agree!

[troubadour]

TrustInYourself,

 

The advice which Dr. Harley gave you is simply ludicrous. I have never been married but I know women quite well. I have always been around them in both, my private and professional life. What a woman wants in man as a love and sex object is an alpha male... a sensitive but strong and decisive individual. They do not go to bed with good friends unles they are married. In single life they love to talk to them, they love to hang out with them but they do not look at them as sex or love material... this is how it is. And your wife leads a single life now. If there is any chance that she may regain any romantic interest in you it is only if you will be an alpha male again... not a pussy with eyes full of hope like Dr. Harley is trying to turn you into. It does not work like he says. I hope you did not pay for his advice.

[TrustInYourself]

TrustInYourself,

 

The advice which Dr. Harley gave you is simply ludicrous. I have never been married but I know women quite well. I have always been around them in both, my private and professional life. What a woman wants in man as a love and sex object is an alpha male... a sensitive but strong and decisive individual. They do not go to bed with good friends unles they are married. In single life they love to talk to them, they love to hang out with them but they do not look at them as sex or love material... this is how it is. And your wife leads a single life now. If there is any chance that she may regain any romantic interest in you it is only if you will be an alpha male again... not a pussy with eyes full of hope like Dr. Harley is trying to turn you into. It does not work like he says. I hope you did not pay for his advice.

 

Wow. Simply wow.

[troubadour]

TrustInYourself,

I sorry I confused you with SinglDad. As far as the advice from Dr. Harley it is not worth s.....

[dead-dyke]

Nay-Sayers

-----------

Team Players

 

SD is trying so hard. There must be a little bit of truth to what the Dr. says, Otherwise, owl & Lj wouldn't be here trying to steer SD to a more productive position.

 

Just my take.

[SingleDad]

Wife did actually go to dinner with me for my 40th birthday.

 

She was there in body only. The woman I have known for 6 of the past 7 years is now someone different.

 

She is cold, distant, angry, controlling... just put splinters under my nails and I'd be more comfortable.

 

She clearly felt excruciating torment to be there as well.

 

The way she is being to me, I'd rather be alone at this point.

 

I am done trying to win her over... It just won't work !!!

 

I am going to live for myself...

 

I will come to her aid when she asks, avoid arguing with her at all costs and consider her advice and decide what is the best actions to take for my daughter.

 

If she changes back into the kind of person that I married, then I will start having hope again.

 

But I am tired of having hope to be with someone whe could care less about me and put me through hell.

 

She told me directly that we are not married anymore - clearly she is living another life... I do not think she is happy however... I think she has unrealistic expectations of what she wanted out of marriage, out of having a child, out of her job. She will never have lasting happpiness.

 

Me Dating ? Well I am still not ready.

[TrustInYourself]

SD, I am feeling you.

[SmartWoman321]

This all reminds me of what my ex and I went thru in MC- sort of like the "Five Love Languages". My ex's love language was "acts of service". Thus, he did all sorts of things for me (and still does, actually)- but my language is "words of affirmation". We could not understand each others "language" and did not feel loved. We could not learn to "speak" each others language either. I knew, intellectually, that he was doing these things to express his love for me (so they say)...but subcounsiously I could not make it work, I just couldn't feel loved- and in return , could not love him back- no matter what he "did" for me.

[Ladyjane14]

Nay-Sayers

-----------

Team Players

 

SD is trying so hard. There must be a little bit of truth to what the Dr. says, Otherwise, owl & Lj wouldn't be here trying to steer SD to a more productive position.

 

Just my take.

 

As far as I know, Owl and I are the only ones who routinely post here on the S&D board who have worked the program. And... we're also the only ones who are still happily married.

 

That said, we were both lucky enough, (or stubborn enough )... to avoid physical separation. I think there's something to be said for that, because neither one of us ever had to invoke "Plan B". That's why I recommend to people that they lay their ears back and prevent "trial separation" if at all possible.

 

Once it's come to pass though, I just don't see what there is to lose by "putting one's best foot forward". Pride? I guarantee you that the process of reconciliation in itself strips all such notions away and leaves a person bared to their last itsy-bitsy insecurity. It's like trying to keep your modesty in childbirth... it ain't happenin'.

[Ladyjane14]

Wife did actually go to dinner with me for my 40th birthday.

 

She was there in body only. The woman I have known for 6 of the past 7 years is now someone different.

 

She is cold, distant, angry, controlling... just put splinters under my nails and I'd be more comfortable.

 

She clearly felt excruciating torment to be there as well.

 

The way she is being to me, I'd rather be alone at this point.

 

I am done trying to win her over... It just won't work !!!

 

I am going to live for myself...

 

I will come to her aid when she asks, avoid arguing with her at all costs and consider her advice and decide what is the best actions to take for my daughter.

 

If she changes back into the kind of person that I married, then I will start having hope again.

 

But I am tired of having hope to be with someone whe could care less about me and put me through hell.

 

She told me directly that we are not married anymore - clearly she is living another life... I do not think she is happy however... I think she has unrealistic expectations of what she wanted out of marriage, out of having a child, out of her job. She will never have lasting happpiness.

 

Me Dating ? Well I am still not ready.

 

Clearly, you are having a bad day. This is WHY we've been pushing you so hard to become less reliant for your daily happiness on your WW. Because these bad days will take so much out of you emotionally.

 

You've still got something like 11 more months of separation to get through before she can file, right? So even though I like the way you're reordering your goals, it doesn't mean you have to toss your hope of reconciliation aside. As long as it's a secondary goal.... it's not going to devastate you if it doesn't come to fruition.

 

Hang in there, hon. No matter what happens... you're gonna be okay.

Believe it.

 

 

p.s. I forgot to wish you "Happy Birthday".

Given the state of current affairs though... I'll wish you this instead...

 

May your next birthday find you content and happy, and satisfied that your life is completely on track.

[sfsassy]

Wife did actually go to dinner with me for my 40th birthday.

 

She was there in body only. The woman I have known for 6 of the past 7 years is now someone different.

 

She is cold, distant, angry, controlling... just put splinters under my nails and I'd be more comfortable.

 

She clearly felt excruciating torment to be there as well.

 

The way she is being to me, I'd rather be alone at this point.

 

I am done trying to win her over... It just won't work !!!

 

I am going to live for myself...

 

I will come to her aid when she asks, avoid arguing with her at all costs and consider her advice and decide what is the best actions to take for my daughter.

 

If she changes back into the kind of person that I married, then I will start having hope again.

 

But I am tired of having hope to be with someone whe could care less about me and put me through hell.

 

She told me directly that we are not married anymore - clearly she is living another life... I do not think she is happy however... I think she has unrealistic expectations of what she wanted out of marriage, out of having a child, out of her job. She will never have lasting happpiness.

 

Me Dating ? Well I am still not ready.

She told you this on your birthday? How incredibly sweet of her. You have to love youself, more than you love her.

[dead-dyke]

 

Once it's come to pass though, I just don't see what there is to lose by "putting one's best foot forward". Pride? I guarantee you that the process of reconciliation in itself strips all such notions away and leaves a person bared to their last itsy-bitsy insecurity. It's like trying to keep your modesty in childbirth... it ain't happenin'.

 

I'm not quite sure I follow, LJ. What do you mean? Sorry. I'm dense.