Does The Sex really Stop between MM and W when they tell you it does?

[Angel1111]

I KNOW!!! I totally agree that story is embarassing.

 

Yeah, I'm not buying it at all.

[Tomcat33]

This is exactly the attitude that causes loving relationships to die.

 

Figure out YOU'RE part that contributes to a relationship going upside down and change THAT. In every single case where a single woman is involved with a MM, she contributes to it by agreeing to be in the relationship in the first place. If you downplay that and don't take responsibility for your actions, things will crash and burn. There is a way to end things lovingly so that you don't walk away bitter and blaming. Blame is often a mirror - so be very careful that the finger you're pointing at the MM isn't pointing right back at you.

 

 

I totally agree with that. I do think though it is very hard to maintain a healthy path when you are involved with someone in an A, you develop trust in what the WS tells you and you trust that what they are telling you is true. When in time you see that the actions don't quite match the words that is when the trust issues start and how can you take responsibility for being mislead at some point the WS does mislead the OP, and I know the argument is that it's the OP's personal fault for getting involved with a MP but if you trust that what they tell you is true and they are being honest there should be ideally no reason to worry.

 

Someone said not trusting your partner is a red flag, I would counter that and say completely trusting the WS is a bigger red flag. How can you trust someone that is lying to someone whom they promised to love and charish until death do them part and not seriously think they are doing the the same to you? If they can lie to them they can also be lying to you. While I don't believe once a cheater always a cheater I NEVER EVER thought for one second the lies were one sided, ie only to his W. I would study him and watch with what ease he would come up with excuses, with what ease the sneaking would happen with him. I would take metnal note of this. He didn't know this at the time but this was my test to see what he how far he would go and if he could potentially do to me the same things some day. Either he was very smart or he really was keeping his lying to a minimal because outside of the obvious I wouldn't see him majorly go out of his way to trick his W. If he was with me she was out of the picture and vice versa. He respected my wishes for him to stay away while he was living at home, so he was not a prepared to lie to sneak off to be with me as a person in a regular A does and I saw a glimmer of hope in that. BUT that doesn't mean he wasn't lying still or that he was not lying to me.

 

I think any relationship that starts off as an A is going to have trust issues, if you trust blindly from the getgo you are in for big surprises and even bigger disspointments. Until he gives you 100% you have every right to second guess him but as you said Angel second guess yourself as well.

 

Someone said that the best course of action if you are mistrusting the sex thing would be to cut out sex altogether, I totally agree with that comment. That was an excellent post by the way, can't remember who posted that but will go back and check. Best advice so far really IMO.

It's not worth the worries.

[porter218]

Nice! And you stayed with this spineless baby?

 

That's just as low as man can sink really, not only can he not face up to his actions and own his mistakes he will take it one step further and threaten to murder another human being to "clean his slate"

 

I am embarassed for him.

No..I left him for almost a year because of all this cr@p. When I took him back this year he had changed a lot. I think he was at the lowest point of his life when he said that to me..he was a desperate man..and I find nothing attractive about that.

[Tomcat33]

No..I left him for almost a year because of all this cr@p. When I took him back this year he had changed a lot. I think he was at the lowest point of his life when he said that to me..he was a desperate man..and I find nothing attractive about that.

 

 

Yeah but you took him back!!

 

......................................................

[porter218]

Not to be rude but don't believe this story at all. I don't know why on earth a man would cheat on someone he has sex with that often and who would be willing to commit murder. Why? Because he's so nuts about you??? I'm sorry, this doesn't even sound close to realistic. What sounds more realistic is that he left you for the OW and you're just really bitter and want to say hurtful things to this OW. If I'm wrong, then I apologize. But you gotta admit this picture you're painting looks very unlikely.

 

Also, if it is true, then I still think it's a rare thing for a man to take things to this extreme and lie to this extent.

Wow. No darling this is 100% fact. And he didn't leave me at any point ever. I left him when I found out all this stuff. Yes it may seem outrageous, but it happened exactly as I said it. In MC recently he has said that these As were a sort of escape from reality for him. It was hard for him to be the less successful one in the M, and with his OW he could spin whatever reality he wanted to. Our sex life was great, he didn't cheat because of anything lacking with me, it was because he didn't feel complete within himself. And it was like a vicious cycle...the more he cheated the more I didn't trust him..and the more I didn't trust him the more he wanted to cheat. Believe it or don't, that is up to you...But this is my life, I am the one who had to live through this *****.

[Tomcat33]

Wow. No darling this is 100% fact. And he didn't leave me at any point ever. I left him when I found out all this stuff. Yes it may seem outrageous, but it happened exactly as I said it. In MC recently he has said that these As were a sort of escape from reality for him. It was hard for him to be the less successful one in the M, and with his OW he could spin whatever reality he wanted to. Our sex life was great, he didn't cheat because of anything lacking with me, it was because he didn't feel complete within himself. And it was like a vicious cycle...the more he cheated the more I didn't trust him..and the more I didn't trust him the more he wanted to cheat. Believe it or don't, that is up to you...But this is my life, I am the one who had to live through this *****.

 

 

So I'm courious, how does he justify now having seriously considered killing someone? What can he possibly say about that now? Don't you find that odd at all that the man you chose to stay an love would capable of offing another human being to make HIS OWN mistake right?

[bentnotbroken]

no, you can't..all you can say is that in YOUR case it was a lie.

 

 

No I can say in the cases I know about it is a lie.

[Tomcat33]

No I can say in the cases I know about it is a lie.

 

Were in other people's bedroom's watching?

 

You can only say in your case it was a true, you can't speak for everyone, and I think that was the point LF was trying to make.

[bentnotbroken]

Oh what you were in other people's bedrooms watching? You can only say in your case it was a true, you can't speak for everyone, and I think that was the point LF was trying to make.

 

 

Guess what TC, I have friends who confide in me and they are honest people and(men and women) they aren't the ones cheating, why should they lie to a person who has been a good friend for years. I don't' know the kind of people you hang with, but liars aren't usually in my group.

[Tomcat33]

I don't' know the kind of people you hang with, but liars aren't usually in my group.

 

The kinds of people I hang out with are loving couples that don't cheat on each other. That's friends. In terms of family my parents have been together for 40yrs and my syblings all have happy healthy marriages with the normal ups and downs. That is my circle. So yes maybe you have a better idea of the lies that happen in affairs given your circle of people and personal experience.

At any rate I respect you and your friend's experiences but there is a whole world outside of your friends and just by looking at this thread alone it shows it is all over the place. Some lie some don't. There are lot of sexless marriages out there and we read about them all the time on the marriage/infidelity board.

 

That's the reality of what is going on in our world outside of your and my personal experiences.

[bentnotbroken]

The kinds of people I hang out with are loving couples that don't cheat on each other. That's friends. In terms of family my parents have been together for 40yrs and my syblings all have happy healthy marriages with the normal ups and downs. That is my circle. So yes maybe you have a better idea of the lies that happen in affairs given your circle of people and personal experience.

At any rate I respect you and your friend's experiences but there is a whole world outside of your friends and just by looking at this thread alone it shows it is all over the place. Some lie some don't. There are lot of sexless marriages out there and we read about them all the time on the marriage/infidelity board.

 

That's the reality of what is going on in our world outside of your and my personal experiences.

 

 

 

That's why I said the cases I know. I am well aware of people who have been married for decades. My parents, grandparents(both side until death) and my siblings. Cheating happens to even those of us who think are loving couples. Again that's why I clarified, the people I know.

[dylanatalanta]

Not wanting to state the obvious but these are ALL very good reasons to dump him and have a relationship with an available man.

 

You don't have to worry about if he is banging his wife or spending time around the dinner table talking with her..

 

Why is it that you would want to short sheet yourself in such a manner ?

 

Because I'm thinking with my heart & not my head, trying to engage my brain but very unsucesfully ;)

[porter218]

So I'm courious, how does he justify now having seriously considered killing someone? What can he possibly say about that now? Don't you find that odd at all that the man you chose to stay an love would capable of offing another human being to make HIS OWN mistake right?

He claimed this was because he would have done anything to save our M. He was thinking if he did this then I would not worry about him cheating with her again, but his judgement was so clouded that he didn't realize I wasn't worried about her specifically. The night that he asked me if I wanted him to do that, he was both high and drunk and an emotional wreck having just lost his family due to his own actions. He was thinking this would be some sort of twisted peace offering:eek:. I guess the reason why I brought this up was until you have seen the whole situation in its entirety you just don't know what you are dealing with, this OW was very blind-sighted by my H and had no idea what she was getting into. She had every reason to beleive the things he said, until that fateful day that I found her # and we both uncovered the truth. A MM who cheats is a morally bankrupt person, and everything he says should be taken with a grain of salt.

[Lizzie60]

He claimed this was because he would have done anything to save our M. He was thinking if he did this then I would not worry about him cheating with her again, but his judgement was so clouded that he didn't realize I wasn't worried about her specifically. The night that he asked me if I wanted him to do that, he was both high and drunk and an emotional wreck having just lost his family due to his own actions. He was thinking this would be some sort of twisted peace offering:eek:. I guess the reason why I brought this up was until you have seen the whole situation in its entirety you just don't know what you are dealing with, this OW was very blind-sighted by my H and had no idea what she was getting into. She had every reason to beleive the things he said, until that fateful day that I found her # and we both uncovered the truth. A MM who cheats is a morally bankrupt person, and everything he says should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

He said he didn't want you to worry abou thim cheating with HER again.. but what about the other 4-5 he was cheating with at the same time.. maybe he is still seeing one of them.. what happened to the others?

[porter218]

He said he didn't want you to worry abou thim cheating with HER again.. but what about the other 4-5 he was cheating with at the same time.. maybe he is still seeing one of them.. what happened to the others?

She was the only one that he appeared to have any feelings for. He had dated her when he was 17, and had a little history with her. As far as the others I keep contact with one every once in a while..she never cared about him it was just a fun ride while it lasted for her. And the rest I know where they live and their phone #s and being a PI on the side I know he has not been near them. I think the reason why he offered to kill her, was because he knew I was the most hurt by his A with her, not so much the others. Over the 9 months we were separated he left all of them alone..this much I know for a fact...I have many 'informants' that he is unaware of.

[OpenBook]

If he is capable of killing her, then he is capable of killing you, as well as your children. Your logic in staying with this, um, person defies me... it beats all I've ever seen.

[porter218]

If he is capable of killing her, then he is capable of killing you, as well as your children. Your logic in staying with this, um, person defies me... it beats all I've ever seen.

Perhaps, however I doubt that he is that dumb. He has said and done some truly stupid stuff, but I seriously doubt he would ever make a slip in judgement that huge.

[Tomcat33]

If he is capable of killing her, then he is capable of killing you, as well as your children. Your logic in staying with this, um, person defies me... it beats all I've ever seen.

 

 

I was thinking the EXACT same thing OB.

 

Porter I certainly hope you don't recount that detail in the hopes of showing just how much this man loves you because anyone who says they need to kill off another human being in order to prove love or to stay on the right track in terms of staying faithful is really nothing more than a deeply disturbed and very sick individual.

 

He engaged in the affair on his own will, you do recognize that right?

[porter218]

I was thinking the EXACT same thing OB.

 

Porter I certainly hope you don't recount that detail in the hopes of showing just how much this man loves you because anyone who says they need to kill off another human being in order to prove love or to stay on the right track in terms of staying faithful is really nothing more than a deeply disturbed and very sick individual.

 

He engaged in the affair on his own will, you do recognize that right?

Gosh you guys.. do you really think I condoned such a statement?? Yes I put all of the blame on him and understood that he needed counseling for such an off the wall statement. I fully agree this was a sick thing for him to offer, but I have been with him to MC and have a full understanding of what happened and why. After his first A was uncovered a couple years before this I definitely made threats to kill him, and I think with me crossing that line he began to think I was OK with such violence. I never had clouded judgement about what I am dealing with...but he isn't the first person I have seen make such an offer. When doing my PI work on the side..I have unveiled As and seen these MM make similar offers to their Ws. I think some of you guys are highly underestimating what MM are capable of.

[Tomcat33]

. After his first A was uncovered a couple years before this I definitely made threats to kill him, and I think with me crossing that line he began to think I was OK with such violence. I never had clouded judgement about what I am dealing with...but he isn't the first person I have seen make such an offer. When doing my PI work on the side..I have unveiled As and seen these MM make similar offers to their Ws. I think some of you guys are highly underestimating what MM are capable of.

 

This is the first I EVER hear about something like this outside of hollywood movies.

 

He cheated on you in the past and you still accepted him back?

 

And it is different to have so much rage after being stabbed in the back by your spouse to think you might want to kill him (though I still think that is extreme) I do see that rage can get the best of people. But what the heck sense does it make for him to want her dead when he is the one that chose to love her, he is the one that has feelings for her, he is the one that SOLELY decided to engage in an A with her and he is the one that can't keep his pecker in his pants? She never made him cheat he cheated on his own, that is completly displaced anger on his part.

 

I have seen this a few times with WS (the displaced anger not threats of killing) and I find it really gross. Do you not see just how much crazier that is?

[porter218]

This is the first I EVER hear about something like this outside of hollywood movies.

 

He cheated on you in the past and you still accepted him back?

 

And it is different to have so much rage after being stabbed in the back by your spouse to think you might want to kill him (though I still think that is extreme) I do see that rage can get the best of people. But what the heck sense does it make for him to want her dead when he is the one that chose to love her, he is the one that has feelings for her, he is the one that SOLELY decided to engage in an A with her and he is the one that can't keep his pecker in his pants? She never made him cheat he cheated on his own, that is completely displaced anger on his part.

 

I have seen this a few times with WS (the displaced anger not threats of killing) and I find it really gross. Do you not see just how much crazier that is?

I do.

As far as displaced anger..It had nothing to do with anger..he wasn't angry with her. When I kicked him out I told him it was because he was a cheater and I could never trust him again. When He asked why couldn't he just have one more chance I explained to him that I didn't want to have to waste time checking on whether he was contacting her(amongst many reasons) and then that is the moment this idea came to his head..he said that he would kill her if that would make me happy..I think it was very barbaric thinking along the lines of 'well if she is dead then you will not worry about me contacting her, there, problem solved' ...stupid! I know! I think maybe he assumed I had displaced anger towards her..not true at all. I held him and him alone accountable.

 

 

 

PS..I really don't want to steer this thread off topic with my crazy M.

[crystal_lostheart]

Hi Porter and thanks to others who have given me some great advice - I guess every situation is different and there are so many emotions involved. That's the problem with R like these - everything is second guessing to the point where you just second guess yourself.

 

The stress of this is quite bad on me now. The whole sex thing does play my mind but really I feel that it's not happening between them. But who can be sure? I know people say get out - but I'm struggling - and I can't figure out why. I know I love him but it's at the point where I don't know what to do anymore. He has been with this woman for 17 years, married only for 4 years- decided to have a kid to 'make things better' Of course it didn't. He said he didn't know any better. I posted the incident below on the my other thread because it kinda relates to this. Can others tell me what they think?

 

Just spoke to MM before. He had a big fight with his W (that's quite normal). She went out Sat nite, came home early in the morning, drunk. He went through her phone last night and everything was erased. He asked her 'what she was up to' and told her 'this is why our marriage is finished'. She pleaded with him that nothing was going on and went in the other room to talk to one of her friends on the phone about it. He heard this - went in and slapped the phone out of her hand. He said to me that's like 'you and me having an arguement and you go tell someone and I can hear you- that's not right'.

 

I sat there and wanted to drop the phone on the floor - I said to him 'why do you still care what she does if you believe the M is over?' He said to me 'She's a mother and shouldn't be doing that'.

 

Alarm bells go off in my head - the opposite to love is not hate - it is indifference. Tell me if that was indifference because I don't think so? Feelings are still there so chances are they he will never leave because this is the way his life is with her OR I've read everything wrong an this is a stage of him ending the marraige with her?

[Tomcat33]

Just spoke to MM before. He had a big fight with his W (that's quite normal). She went out Sat nite, came home early in the morning, drunk. He went through her phone last night and everything was erased. He asked her 'what she was up to' and told her 'this is why our marriage is finished'. She pleaded with him that nothing was going on and went in the other room to talk to one of her friends on the phone about it. He heard this - went in and slapped the phone out of her hand. He said to me that's like 'you and me having an arguement and you go tell someone and I can hear you- that's not right'.

 

I sat there and wanted to drop the phone on the floor - I said to him 'why do you still care what she does if you believe the M is over?' He said to me 'She's a mother and shouldn't be doing that'.

 

Alarm bells go off in my head - the opposite to love is not hate - it is indifference. Tell me if that was indifference because I don't think so? Feelings are still there so chances are they he will never leave because this is the way his life is with her OR I've read everything wrong an this is a stage of him ending the marraige with her?

 

 

Ok Crystal_lostheart I am going to give you some tough words here, not tough love I don't do "tough love" with strangers, but tough words:

 

I know you can't get out and I know at times you feel like you might want to and your head is flipflopping back and forth between what is real and what is not, but given what I just quoted above I see you are in waaaay over you head in the middle of this man's marriage.

 

Your role in this relationship is not to mediate his problems with his W nor is it your job to provide therapy for him and his hardships with his W. WHY are you doing this to yourself? Please read back what you wrote up there, you have managed to position yourself deadsmack in the middle of this couple's problems, WHY? Why would you do that to yourself? Is this really what you signed up for when you fell in love with this man? To sort out his problems with his W? Politely ask him to please keep his problems between he and his W, tell him it doesn't feel right to you to be stuck in the middle and stick to your word.

 

Crsystal it's time you take a step back, a big LONG step back and distance yourself from his marital woes otherwise the only who is going to lose in the end is you. When all is said and done you are supposed to be his girlfriend, fun loving exciting girlfriend and he is supposed to be your boyfriend, fun sexy exciting and charming boyfriend. I am not saying walk away but for heaven's sake stop with being his soundboard when he has problems at home. HE needs to resolve those on his own and come to you when he does.

 

 

Even for HIS sake if you end up together all that will play back in his mind were the times he put on an angry show infront of you and let you in to his other side of how he can get when there is conflict and this will work against you, some men talk themselves out of being with a woman that saw him in such a low point.

 

Do yourself a favour and cut the drama right out. It's HIS drama and HE and his W need to sort it out.

 

Alarm bells go off because boundaries are being crosse that do NOT benefit you in any way shape or form, the affair alone is enough drama for you to deal with.

 

You will drive yourself crazy girl, STOP playing this role for your own good.

[Angel1111]

Yeah, that would have my alarm bells going off, too. If he really wanted to leave her, he would look at this as a golden opportunity to bring it up and act on it. But you never know. He can't be that nuts about her if he's cheating on her. Again, this gets back to second-guessing and what a tangled web marriages are. A lot of guys have a double standard - it's ok for them to cheat but it's not ok for their wives to cheat. If I were you, I would talk to him about it and let him know how his reaction looks from your point of view. Just be prepared that if you don't like his answer, you're going to need to do something about it.

 

I guess the main thing that concerns me is that it seems no matter what he does, because you love him and can't stop letting your emotions control you, you won't walk away from this. That's a very bad position to put yourself in. It's one thing to love someone - but that doesn't mean you have no choice about whether you leave or stay.

[Art_Critic]

He heard this - went in and slapped the phone out of her hand.

 

You already kinda know how I feel .. but the part I quoted stuck out to me...

 

Hummmm.. there is also another side to this man that you obviously have not seen.. I'll bet his wife has seen it..