It's about his son...

[GreenEyedLady]

Wow GEL, you and I are on the same page. I kinda like when that happens.

 

She can't understand that because it's not how she has lived her life.

 

I know, funny isn't it?

 

I don't know anyone who has a college education that would say that a degree is nothing more than a piece of paper and if they're going to inherit the family business they shouldn't even bother going to a university.

 

I'm in education and have several degrees and I hold them proudly. And I think everyone should have access and experience the university. It opens minds.

[awkward]

I went back and read some of your other threads.

 

It is difficult to give advice on a message board because it is hard to understand the tone of the author. I am coming from a place where I am not judging you. I just read what you had to say and am giving you my thoughts. So please don't think I am attacking you. That is not my intention at all.

 

I truly believe the problem is not the son. I get the impression that you are very insecure with yourself. Go back and read some of threads you have created.

 

Here is why I think the problem could be your insecurities:

*You are unsure if you have what it takes to succeed in grad school.

*You are concerned about an addiction.

*You admit that you have lost your self-confidence and self-esteem.

*You feel like a loser and that you haven't got anywhere in life. You've quit every job you have ever had because you hate to work.

*You are bothered by the women your ex-boyfriends are dating.

*You feel the age difference between you and your boyfriend could be a problem.

*You feel that sometimes you sound unintelligent.

*You are still ashamed of the affair from 4 years ago.

*You have difficulty communicating with your boyfriend.

*You are bothered that your boyfriend is resistant to marriage.

*You feel like a loser and a failure. You feel unaccomplished.

*You are anxious and are having difficulty sleeping.

*You are unsure as to what it means when your boyfriend only came back to you after his wife left him.

 

I don't think any one of these thoughts alone indicate a problem, but combined together it is difficult not to.

 

You are in grad school to become a marriage and family counselor so you must feel that counseling is beneficial to some. If I was in your shoes I would definitely consider it. I believe it could help you with all of your feelings about yourself, your boyfriend, and his son.

 

Now if you completely disagree with me, I understand. I am not a professional. It is just my opinion and only offered to try and help you.

 

Good luck and I hope everything works out well for you.

 

ETA: I don't think you are a loser or a failure. You are in grad school and trying to make your dreams come true. Grad school is difficult, but you are doing it. Stop beating yourself up.

[whichwayisup]

I just dont think i know how to handle the fact that son 2 doesn't get it. He once called me a flusey. that was earlier on, but that still burns. Its hard to hang with someone you know doesnt like you. Thats why I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. He already doesnt like me, but is playing civil to appease his dad. He doesnt want me there just as much as i dont want to be there. If this is the case, why should I feel bad by leaving early, or not going at all? Would you willingly hang with someone who know hates you and thinks of you as a flusey?

 

But, look at it from his point of view. You were the OW and had a helping hand in breaking up his parents. He cannot BE objective, atleast not yet.

 

Still think you're making a bigger deal of this - You even said he hugged you in the past - IF he HATED you, he wouldn't be hugging you.

 

Remember, you're the adult here, his father's partner. Somehow YOU need to get past the fact you WERE the OW and just know that you're there to stay. IF the son has issues with that, well, someday HE will have to deal with it. Until then, be nice, be friendly and just go with the flow. You two will eventually be OK - Just don't put any expectations on the son right now.

 

I like his son's girlfriend actually. Her dad is one of the professors at the school i go to. She is waaaaay more friendly to me than he is. She engages me. She also has a FT job, and goes to school. I have a lot more respect for her than i do him.

 

Ofcourse she is, she's a girl and will engage more in conversation. The son won't because he's a guy. I hope that makes sense to you..

 

The respect thing is a problem though and I'm sure it goes both ways - He probably doesn't respect you because of how your relationship with his father started - Sorry but he is allowed to have his feelings about your A with his dad..All you can do is give it time, allow him to see the good stuff about you and hopefully in time he'll come around and feel more at ease.

[bentnotbroken]

The son...he is never mean to me. Never has been. Matter of fact, he is usually pretty friendly. We hug when we see each other.

 

However, I do think that when he is around, he would prefer i wasn't, which is why I think he doesn't engage me or talk about things that i can relate to. It does bother me the every time he is around, he makes certain to take all of the attention, leaving me with none. I know it sounds bratty, but its almost like we are fighting for his dad's attention.

 

he spends the entire summer with his mom and dad. as i've mentioned, we have a LDR, so while i see my man every weekend, he is with mom and dad mon-fri, until he goes back to school.

 

I've mentioned to my man that i think his son is spoiled, and he agrees. He told me one of the issues in his relationship with his ex is that she has always usurped parental control. his father thought he should've had a job a long long time ago, but his mother tells him its okay not to until he finished college....that she will fully support him. they have another son who is a hard worker, but has his own troubles. he is 29 and still lives at home with his mom.

 

For me, if i were 23, and see all of my friends working FT jobs, i would be sort of embarrassed to admit that my mommy and daddy still pay for everything. Wouldnt he want that independence? I've been working since I was 16, and worked full time through college. This is all beside the point. i'm just stating that in some ways (although I am not a mother) my BF understands and agrees with me. I'm certain his son has no idea how i feel.

 

Its really hard to explain online. I wish i could get into his sons head and know what his thoughts were about me. It would make it easier to go to the lake knowing these things. When i mentioned that maybe I would drive home before his son got there, my BF said, well, that could be a good idea. then we all get what we want (meaning that his son wouldn't have to spend time with me either). So i dont know if his son likes me or not, but according to my man, it seems he'd rather I not be there.

 

Ugghh, its all so uncomfortable. Reap what you sow though.

 

 

 

I get the spoiled part, so is my son, but I don't see what action(based on your postings)makes him a brat. It seems he is a kind and courteous young man, who just doesn't happen to fit your idea of what a 23 year old man should or shouldn't be doing with his life outside of school.

[bentnotbroken]

Haa haa...

 

the funny thing is...he is going to inherit the business his mom and dad built. So his going to college has no real benefit to his future other than having the piece of paper. He is not about to have a better career. He is spoonfed everything, including his future.

 

 

 

If he is better equipped to run a business and make it more successful, there is a benefit. YOU have a touch of the green eyed monster don't you? Is it that this young man has had more oppertunities than you and may be making the most of them? He is taking what his father gives and so are you.

[bentnotbroken]

Who said i wasn't enjoying my life? I'm only 31 for God's sake. They are not that much younger than me. I have traveled the world, jumped out of airplanes, lived in small towns and big cities, had jobs, got a degree, am working on my Master's degree, have a myriad of worldy friends, take voice lessons, dance, camp, swim, jetski, kayak, hike, seen 100 or more concerts, go out to dinner almost every weekend to wonderful places, speak spanish, see theatre, etc...I am most certainly NOT tied down.

 

I would never want to be in my twenties again, and am very glad they are over. There is way to much uncertainty in my twenties.

 

I like his son's girlfriend actually. Her dad is one of the professors at the school i go to. She is waaaaay more friendly to me than he is. She engages me. She also has a FT job, and goes to school. I have a lot more respect for her than i do him.

 

 

If you are so worldly why don't you engage them? Honestly, you just spouted of the things you have done after you have posted how much you don't like you. How do you expect anyone else to want to engage a person who doesn't like herself.

[bentnotbroken]

Thanks CE, for having some compassion and realizing its not about his job or education.

 

And while i do feel bit beat down from this thread, in the end it's for the best. i need to hear it in order to understand it.

 

My parents instilled in me a strong work ethic. i had a job at 16, and have kept going. They didnt help me with school (I will have over 100,000 in loans to pay off), and i've worked during school to survive. while it sucked going through it (life was harder) I feel like it really made me into the person i am today. If/when i have kids, my BF and I have already decided they will be working at 16-17. He told me I was the "other parent" he wished he could've raised his kids with. we feel very similar in chilrearingd .

But all of the hard work taught me about people, money, beauracracy, greed, organization, time management, respect, and then some. I still do not respect the child that grows up with everything handed to them on a silver platter. I guess its the parents fault then, but I think a child can turn out pretty F!#ked up when everything is handed to them. Just my opinion. I'd rather spoil my child with travel, and a nice home to grow up in with good food to eat and a realistic approach to life.

 

 

 

 

What kind of person did that up bringing make you? Not to be cruel, but he may have a different opinion of what your upbringing made you(as you stated in the name he called you). JMO but the way you had to do things didn't stop you from inserting yourself into this young man's life and you judging his parents raising of him, his job history or his future inheritances. Just saying.

[GPFan]

the funny thing is...he is going to inherit the business his mom and dad built. So his going to college has no real benefit to his future other than having the piece of paper. He is not about to have a better career. He is spoonfed everything, including his future.

 

I have explained why I feel intimidated. Jealousy and intimidation are two different things.

 

I still do not respect the child that grows up with everything handed to them on a silver platter.

You are both intimidated and jealous. Your jealousy literally drips from your posts. Everyone commenting upon it is holding up a mirror for you, it may be uncomfortable but if no one pointed it out how would you know?

 

I am sure he picks up your "vibe" and it makes him uncomfortable too.

 

You might try to arrive at a point where you can celebrate and appreciate the blessings and opportunities this young man has. His path in life is his, your is yours; any comparison will be inherently unfair. Any positive expression coming from you, in order to be genuine, must come from within. That will require introspection and working on yourself.

 

Being called a "floozy" by a child who is angered about the role you played in the destruction of his home life is a fairly mild response. I have heard much, much worse! I wouldn't ever bring it up as he every right at that moment to be angry and upset. Forget about it, never bring it up again and move on.

[Trimmer]

You are both intimidated and jealous. Your jealousy literally drips from your posts. Everyone commenting upon it is holding up a mirror for you, it may be uncomfortable but if no one pointed it out how would you know?

 

I am sure he picks up your "vibe" and it makes him uncomfortable too.

 

You might try to arrive at a point where you can celebrate and appreciate the blessings and opportunities this young man has. His path in life is his, your is yours; any comparison will be inherently unfair. Any positive expression coming from you, in order to be genuine, must come from within. That will require introspection and working on yourself.

 

Being called a "floozy" by a child who is angered about the role you played in the destruction of his home life is a fairly mild response. I have heard much, much worse! I wouldn't ever bring it up as he every right at that moment to be angry and upset.

...and more to the point, she said "that was earlier on..." This is indeed a hard mirror to look into, but you have to accept that earlier on, this was his perception of the role you played in the breakup of this young man's family. It's an unkind characterization, no doubt, but not hard to understand.

 

It's notable, though, that by your own description, his behavior since then has been at least neutral, and possibly even kind - offering hugs in greeting... "never mean to me. Never has been..." I want to point out to those posters asserting that "respect is a problem" or that she should "demand" that her BF deal with the son over the respect issue, that other than the "floozy" comment (earlier on...) she hasn't described anything but neutral, respectful, even fundamentally friendly behavior from him. And while she repeatedly calls him a "brat", she hasn't defined what behaviors towards her lead her to that description; it seems to be based on his educational and career options and choices, completely outside her sphere of influence.

 

Her entire agitation about him seems to be based on what she thinks he thinks, what he might think about her, and the power he could have if he wanted to.

 

Back to the OP - as you are starting to realize, most of this is in your own head, and as you've said yourself, related to your own insecurities.

 

Your anger is based in fear, and your fear is based in insecurity, and that insecurity is based in not having dealt with who you are and what you did, processing it, understanding it, and putting it into the context of your life and your identity. The biggest thing that sticks out to me is that between the time earlier on when the son called you a floozy and his behavior now (when things are going well, and you don't have anything negative to report about his treatment of you, he's never mean, he offers hugs, etc.) it sounds like he has moved on and started to accept you in your new role as Dad's GF, but you are still stuck with your vision of yourself in your old role - you can't let go of your own fear that you are still the "floozy," so to speak:

I guess i'm uncomfortable around him because I'm uncomfortable with myself.

Indeed, I believe you are.

 

And even though you see him, through your lenses of insecurity, as a spoonfed, spoiled brat, his relationship with his father still stands as a symbol of a relationship that will endure and remain strong, no matter what. And that scares you because you aren't sure if your relationship with BF is equal to that. This is frightening and angering, and together with your insecurity, makes you feel powerless, as if you are in competition with a superior competitor:

I know his feeling towards me DO effect his Dad, my man. And i'm scared that if his son finds some reason to hate me, he could wreck us.

And thus you test your BF and make him choose: "...if son is coming to the lakehouse, then I'm not."

 

I think you know your problem is mostly about your perception of yourself and your relationship - and maybe what the son represents symbolically with respect to your relationship and how that makes you feel - and it's not so much about the person he really is. Those are harder issues to uncover and face, so it's easier to hide behind "I don't respect him because he's spoonfed..." But that's a dodge, and not really what's at the root of all this.

 

The subject line of your thread is "It's about his son...", but it really isn't, is it?

[GPFan]

Wow Trimmer...

 

Excellent, simply excellent!

[OWoman]

Not only is she "the homewrecker" in the son's eyes, but she's also not old enough to be his 'step-mom'...or any other kind of authority figure in his life. She'd be an older sister at best. There's no basis for respect for her in this situation.

 

Owl I could not disagree with you more on this, from personal experience! My father's W - his fOW - is much younger than he is, and far closer to my age than she is to his. We knew she existed as his OW long before he and my mother split, but we only met her once they were together (after we'd left the parental home). So there was never any "step parenting" role, never any "authority figure" kind of attempt simply who she was - the woman my father chose, who made him happy, who transformed him from withdrawn misery to engaged fulfilment - and who made us happy, seeing that transformation.

 

That, alone, was basis for respect.

 

And, of all their "grandmothers", she's the one my kids are closest to, simply because of who she is and how she is.

[Trimmer]

...the woman my father chose, who made him happy, who transformed him from withdrawn misery to engaged fulfilment - and who made us happy, seeing that transformation.

 

That, alone, was basis for respect.

 

I would say it even more simply than this. While I would yield to an argument that there may be no basis for liking her, or wanting to spend time with her, the simple fact that his father has chosen her as his partner is a basis for respectful behavior, at a minimum. I would see disrespect to a parent's chosen partner as disrespect to the parent as well.

 

And again I think this to be moot in the context of this thread, as I maintain that the OP is not asserting that the son is behaving disrespectfully - other than the early and probably emotionally charged "floozy" comment, she related specifically how he has "never been mean," how he hugs her in greeting, etc...

[bentnotbroken]

Wow Trimmer...

 

Excellent, simply excellent!

 

 

Really great:)

[Agent_99]

I was wondering. Have you ever tried to talk to the son about this. At 23 he IS an adult, even if spoiled. This isn't about you and your bf, but about you and your bf's son. Sometimes confronting something head on is the answer. LIKE talking to the son. For all you know the son IS trying to develop some sort of freindship with you. or maybe HE is intimidated by you. I mean seriously, here is the woman that his dad left his mom for, she must be pretty amazing, and she acts so cool and distant towards me. Being spoiled can lead to some serious insecurities since you never know your own self worth until it is tested.

 

Just a thought.

 

~99

[whichwayisup]

Trimmer, that was an amazing post reply.

[Owl]

Trimmer, I get your point. I don't completely agree with it, but I understand what you're saying.

 

But, asking an adult child to accept and respect the person that one of your parents divorced the other for...that one of your parents cheated with...makes no sense to me.

 

Perhaps its just my mindset or a personality flaw.

 

My kids were hurt and outraged at my wife's choice to start an emotional affair with someone else. Not just on my part...they were angry with her not only for what she was doing to me, but for what she was doing to them as well. For what she was doing to the family.

 

She expected some of that, but hadn't truly tried to put herself in their shoes to see it from their viewpoint. She expected they would be angry and hurt, but that they'd be willing to give OM a chance.

 

They refused to do so. Even before she left, they told her that there was no way that they'd be living with her (and OM) anytime soon...PERIOD. It wasn't going to happen that summer, and it wasn't going to happen during the school year. They told her point blank that there was no way that they were going to uproot their lives based on her choice. And that they had NO intent of having anything to do with OM. Realize that they were all older teens at the time...they're all adults now.

 

I'm sure that there are cases where a family is so dysfunctional to begin with that the affair partner is a clear better parent/spouse and everyone is just thrilled that the old family is broken up. But I don't see that as 'the rule'...its more likely the exception.

 

My thoughts at least.

[angie2443]

I would say it even more simply than this. While I would yield to an argument that there may be no basis for liking her, or wanting to spend time with her, the simple fact that his father has chosen her as his partner is a basis for respectful behavior, at a minimum. I would see disrespect to a parent's chosen partner as disrespect to the parent as well....

 

I disagree with this completely. My father was a serial cheater and I never respected the women he hooked up with. When I became old enough to understand what was going on, I never respected him. Now, when I became an adult, I didn't act childish around him or his girlfriends, I just didn't respect them. Being a parent or a parent's partner does not mean you deserve respect. If you act respectfully and treat the people around you decently, then you deserve respect, if not, then you don't deserve it. It's as simple as that.

[silktricks]

But, asking an adult child to accept and respect the person that one of your parents divorced the other for...that one of your parents cheated with...makes no sense to me.

 

I can understand and agree that in the anger and hurt of the original break-up that children - whether teens or adults - may refuse to deal with the parent's new love. But long term, if the two new people form a permanent bond and this resentment continues, the long term damage to the relationship between parent and child is only sad for both.

 

The parent who was left (the BS) should IMO do everything in their power to aid in mending the rift between their child(ren) and the other parent. The parent didn't divorce the children AND those children should show respect to their parent's new partner, and be encouraged to do so by the BS.

 

There is a difference between showing and having respect . No one can be forced to HAVE respect for a person. But there is no excuse IMO to not SHOW respect to the person your parent has chosen as a mate - whether you like the person or not.

[Owl]

Respect is EARNED, not given.

 

By starting the relationship by cheating with one of the parents and contributing to the dissolution of the family, the OP now turned potential new step parent is starting out in a huge, HUGE trust/respect deficit in regards to the children, ESPECIALLY if they're old enough to understand all of this. They've ALREADY started the relationship on a note that will cause most older children to foster dislike/disdain/disrespect for them...unless as I've said earlier, that the original family was so utterly dysfunctional that being sundered is an improvement.

 

I would have never attempted to force my kids into accepting/respecting someone who actively sought an affair with my wife. Who did so KNOWING that the destruction of our family was a likely result.

 

I WOULD have insisted that they treat their mother with respect and love...but that would NOT have extended to the OM. Sorry, but this is simply how I see it.

 

He would have done nothing to EARN that respect in any fashion, other than foster a hidden relationship with their mother that contributed to the end of the family.

[bish]

I wasn't sure whether to post this in Family or here, but i figured someone would REAM me in the family group, so here I will post.

 

Some of you may know, but to make a long story short...

 

I was involved with a married man and he left his wife for himself, and for me. We've been happily together ever since. its been about 4 years now.

 

He has a 23 year old son whom i have a hard time spending time with. Obviously it is uncomfortable and most of you can understand why. However, we seem to be civil and manange just fine when we do have to spend time together. Usually our time is brief...maybe dinner, or a quick trip to the park or something. It never usually lasts more than a few hours.

 

WELL, my man and I had plans to spend a few days out at the lakehouse next week. Then his son requested to spend some time out there as well, with his girlfriend. My man then decided we should ALL spend time there, and I'm just not comfortable with it. It would only be one full day and night, and then we'd have to go back home. Still, the reason for going to the lakehouse is to RELAX and UNWIND, however, when his son is there, I am anything but relaxed and to me, it defeats the purpose of going. Its not that his son does anything mean to me, or treats me differently, but usually his son rambles on and on and on, usually about things/people I dont know anything about. Basicallly I feel like i'm just an observer of someone elses' conversation. Nothing is directed towards me, and he never tries to engage me and I'm feeling very left out. I also think his son is a spoiled brat, and I have no respect for him since, at 23, he has never worked a day in his life (this is another story, but I had to throw it in here)

 

I know most of this is my own insecurites, but I cannot BE myself around his son. I feel bad because I was the woman (the much younger woman) who his dad left his mom for. I know if I were him, I would not like the other woman. So i dont know what to do. my man and I got in an argument over it last night. I told him to forget it....that I didn't want to go to the lake anymore if his son was going to be there. I just feel bad, and I dont know what to do or how to balance his family with US. I feel like I'm being a brat or something, but at the same time, I would be totally miserable listening to his son ramble on and on for 24 hours. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells around him.

 

What should I do? Help.

 

Put up with it, or break off the relationship. Its the only 2 things you can really do.

 

When you mess around with someone elses husband, you take their kids too. Its a package deal.

[bish]

I can't help but feel a bit of an attitude coming from you. One that i was hoping to avoid, but usually here on this particualr forum, that is difficult. You must be the woman who's hubby is having an affair I presume.

 

Did I say anything about him having to divorce his son? No, I didn't. And I dont appreciate you copping this tude with me.

 

You sleep with another woman's husband, and you are going to complain about him copping an attitude?

 

He didn't cop an attitude with you at all. He put it in plain english, as I did above. You simply didn't like what you heard and dismissed it as attitude.

 

Dont give me your attitude. this forum seems to be filled with bitter haters. I'm here for advice...not to be judged. Thanks.

 

Again, your dismissal of what he said trying to call it "attitude" says alot about you. And nothing he said was bitter.

 

But lets highlight what you said in response.

 

"You must be the woman who's hubby is having an affair I presume."

 

That catty stab at someone who is a betrayed spouse says more about you than anything.

[bish]

Sounds to me like the son isn't the only spoiled person in this scenario. What did you expect to happen once you were interjected into his son's life? Didn't you know that your actions would some how color his opinions and views of you?

 

Exactly. A friend of mine to this day, almost 20 years later, refuses to speak to his own mother for betraying his father. And that goes to say that the man she messed around with knows enough to steer clear of him as well. Last thing he wants is the man that helped break up his family in his face.

 

 

You say he hasn't been mean, but he doesn't engage you, maybe it isn't up to him to make your feel comfortable and relaxed, it is up to you to prove you deserve to be in his life.

 

Well said. She was an accomplice to breaking up his mother and father. She should consider herself lucky that he doesn't chew her out on a regular basis.

[bish]

Haa haa...

 

the funny thing is...he is going to inherit the business his mom and dad built. So his going to college has no real benefit to his future other than having the piece of paper. He is not about to have a better career. He is spoonfed everything, including his future.

 

Sounds like you are jealous of him or just downright despise him. So if that is the case, then why are you with his father?

[bish]

i agree with you that education is more than a piece of paper, but in this case, that is all it is. I totally admire those who work hard in school. Been there, done that...i know how intense it can be. But when you are just given a lucrative career, without REALLY having to work for it, it kind of defeats the purpose.

 

It makes one a well rounded individual including giving them a skill set.

 

What if he takes the business and it goes under or the economy puts him out of business. What then? If he didn't go to school, what would he do?

 

My thought is, how can he expect to know how to run a business if he has never worked for anyone before?

 

He will get his experience, my guess is, when he graduates. Sorry, working crappy little jobs while going to school does not prepare you for running a full fledged business. All it does is install a little work ethic. Work ethic is also being built while in school.

 

I think it would behoove him to get some experience in the real world workforce.

 

He will, when he graduates, or when he starts working for his dad. His dad, I'm sure, is not just going to hand it over to him right away. He will have to earn his stripes and learn the business before running it.

 

Or are you saying the boy has no intention of working at all until years down the road when his father retires?

[angie2443]

The parent who was left (the BS) should IMO do everything in their power to aid in mending the rift between their child(ren) and the other parent. The parent didn't divorce the children AND those children should show respect to their parent's new partner, and be encouraged to do so by the BS.

 

There is a difference between showing and having respect . No one can be forced to HAVE respect for a person. But there is no excuse IMO to not SHOW respect to the person your parent has chosen as a mate - whether you like the person or not.

 

This makes no sense. The BS has no responsibility to mend any rifts between their child and the other parent or the other parent's partner. Forcing someone to respect someone who hurt them or who engages in behavior which the child finds disrespectable, is just sick. Sometimes it is better for the rift to continue. Some parents are just toxic and to continue in a relationship with them just harms the child more.