Conclusion to "New here, need input.. "

[Gzus]

SO .. apparently this was just the tip of the iceberg. My wife has been having a full blown emotional affair with her ex for over a month. He lives across the country so I know they have not seen each other. My space is the ****ing devil.

 

Last night, we talked, (because I went to a vasectomy consultation) and I said 'if there is any doubt in your mind about this, please tell me BEFORE I sterilize myself permanently'.. so she broke down and said the tattoo guy was just an ego boost, but that she had developed a real connection with her ex and got carried away by old feelings. So obviously I have no trust in my wife and I am trying to start the process of letting my love and feelings for her die.

 

I took my things and left last night, she was at my feet begging me not to leave.. but there is no way I can go back. She put her feelings ahead of our family, our kids and their future. Whatever this was, it must have been powerful. She says it rekindled old feelings from their unresolved relationshp which ended 10 years prior and she can't believe she let it happen.

 

I handed her my wedding band and told her it was a meaningless piece of ****. Its too bad my kids are the ones who are going to suffer. I really thought she was different and we always 'thought' we were meant to be because of the unusual and unlikely way we met and got together. But there is no way I can go back. I dont know how to go forward either, its going to be brutal leaving the life we built together.

 

Can anyone help me? I am in total agony right now..

[Bryanp]

I am so sorry for you. What I find also so disturbing is that she admits that tatoo guy is a ego boost but that she has been able to keep her emotional affair with her ex from you with you not having a clue. She has been at least emotionally involved with two men during this period behind your back. I don't know if it would even be possible for her to win your trust back. You need to do what you need to do. Without trust, honesty and respect you really have nothing to build on. I wish you luck.

[EnigmasMuse]

I'm sorry you're hurting right now. It will be hard thats for sure. Seperation/divorce is never easy on anyone involved. Get into some individual counseling if you're not already to help sort things out. Take one day at a time, thats all I really know to tell you at this point.

[Gzus]

Here are more details -

 

She deleted his myspace page last week after I confronted her about tatt guy.. I know nearly beyond the shadow of doubt they have not talked since then. So she had not told me about him at that point, but had already made a decision to go no contact.

 

She says it is something wrong with her because she has no reason not to be happy in our marriage and totally loves me dearly and wants to be with me.

 

She was sexually abused as a child and so was her ex, they always shared a connection because of that and that's how this thing started out a month ago.

 

She says she always has known this was just fantasy and that she could never be with him in real life - they never got along and are totally incompatible except for this one thing along with having a mutual attraction.

 

I sent him an email basically saying what they had done together had destroyed our marriage and our kids will bear the brunt of it.

 

My wife desperately does not want me to leave and wants to go to counseling herself and as a couple to try and work thru this.

 

I am having none of it. But I dont like feeling like I hold my children's future in my hands, when I didnt do this to us.

[Touche]

They were both "emotional affairs?" Am I understanding you correctly?

 

It's true that you didn't do this to "us" as you say, but you DO hold your children's future in your hands since you have the CHOICE to work through this with her.

 

It sounds like her transgressions are something that she regrets deeply. And it doesn't sound like you're the cause of it.

 

Why not stand by her as she works through this? This type of thing is more common than you think in this age of the internet.

 

It's something many people don't know how to deal with.

 

If she made excuses, I'd say you're justified in leaving but it doesn't sound that way. It sounds like she knows exactly what it was about and that she did the wrong thing.

 

I really think you should reconsider your position and take her up on going through counseling if that's what she says she needs to do.

 

You can come out of this on the other side and be fine.

 

I mean come on...she didn't sleep with these guys. I know that the emotional part hurt you but think about it.

 

It's not worth breaking up a whole family over.

 

I'll read your other posts for more background. I may have more to add here.

[Gzus]

She only flirted with tatt guy, there was no emotion with him. Just attention and ego. She is one of those girls always looking for her daddy's love since he never had a relationship with her, so she craves male attention. And that **** just doesnt 'go away'.

 

No she didnt sleep with either of them. Tho she did sleep with her ex 10 years ago and they had a mutual sexual attraction, sort of like she and I do.

 

I know she regrets it deeply. She is shamed in front of our whole family which is very close knit (Her sister and her husband, my brothers and their wives, we are all very close) and my wife keeps all of my 2 brothers' kids each day. So those relationships are going to be in danger as well. She says no matter what she would never leave our town and move our daughters away from the only family they know. I was at her sisters / my bro in law's last night when I left. My wife's sister cried with me and could not believe her big sister would do something like this. It is so out of character for her. My Bro in Law recently got busted by my wife's sister texting alot of girls and talking dirty. So she really empathized with me and understood what I was feeling.

 

But you know, I just cant help but feel like an idiot if I stay. I think our relationship will be broken because of this, I can never trust her. She has deleted her own myspace page, realizes that MS was a problem for her and she removed all passwords from email and user accts. I have seen all the phone bills and in a month, there was only 1 call to him from her. But their contact was mostly thru myspace, which she deleted each time. She says she did not have any idea that it would become this big a deal and she says she had no intention of ever hooking up with either.

 

But of course that means **** to me, because I think shes a ****ing liar. I can't subject myself or open myself up for more of this BS.

[Touche]

Personally, I think you're over reacting. I just read through your other posts. You yourself said:

 

Ive probably had some inappropriate chat and online contact with women during our marriage, but that doesnt mean I was actually willing to make it physical.

 

So you've been no angel either.

 

Also, I think you're really pushing her into a corner with this no trust thing. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Could your pill/pot addiction be causing this insecurity?

 

You need to back off. Make her give you her passwords or something. She should have nothing to hide. But by pushing and pushing and constantly distrusting you can push someone right back into something inappropriate.

 

You have to get ahold of yourself. This is a ridiculous thing to break a family over.

 

Go to counseling with her if need be. But you have to stop with the constant suspicions.

 

Did she say it got inappropriate with this old friend? You've never said she did. What constitutes an "emotional affair" to you?

 

And why is it ok for you to have had inappropriate on line contact that you were never going to take to the next level and not her?

[2sunny]

sounds like you may be taking a lot of private information to lots of people.

 

keep this between you and your wife. spend your time and energy on making things better. try the counseling thing... won't hurt - whether or not you stay with her - you two will always have a need to communicate effectively because you have kids together.

[Gzus]

Personally, I think you're over reacting. I just read through your other posts. You yourself said:

 

Ive probably had some inappropriate chat and online contact with women during our marriage, but that doesnt mean I was actually willing to make it physical.

 

So you've been no angel either.

 

Also, I think you're really pushing her into a corner with this no trust thing. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Could your pill/pot addiction be causing this insecurity?

 

You need to back off. Make her give you her passwords or something. She should have nothing to hide. But by pushing and pushing and constantly distrusting you can push someone right back into something inappropriate.

 

You have to get ahold of yourself. This is a ridiculous thing to break a family over.

 

Go to counseling with her if need be. But you have to stop with the constant suspicions.

 

Did she say it got inappropriate with this old friend? You've never said she did. What constitutes an "emotional affair" to you?

 

And why is it ok for you to have had inappropriate on line contact that you were never going to take to the next level and not her?

 

 

OK, let me clarify some things. I am not an insecure person and never have been. I have never, ever questioned my wife about her old friends she talks to online or ever been suspicious of anything. I gave her my full trust. When she started acting like she had something to hide, I started checking into things and she disclosed the tatt guy thing to me. Of course I was crushed, but she cut all contact, the guys wife called, yada yada. She continued to not disclose passwords to me during the past week and I didnt ask for them. But yesterday, I noticed her myspace login is different. So immediately I knew something was up. you dont change logins and passwords unless you are hiding something, which she totally was.

 

She has a deep 'connection' with this ex, he is unhappily married and used her for a shoulder to cry on last month. They started talking about how they understood each other and it brought up a bunch of her old feelings and made her question her happiness in her marriage, because of what she felt for him and her unresovled feelings from their relationship. So it was much deeper with this guy.

 

I have talked with women online inappropriately before, but never for over a month with the same person and grown so close. I told her all this.

 

When a core component (trust and committment) is broken in a relationship, it tends to rot it from the inside. Ive been on both sides of the fidelity fence in my past relationships, which she knows. I am 7 years older than her (Im 34) and I know when to cut off contact if things get serious. I just think of my beautiful daughters and how I could never hurt them. But she did not do this.

 

The fact that she didnt cut it off with this guy until I busted her with the tatt guy means she either didnt value our relationship or thought what she had with this guy was worth the risk. Either way, she took this path and put us in this place, not me. Ive been a good husband.

 

I smoke pot because I am a high stress person in two important and high stress jobs. I dont drink and never have. The herb I smoke at night is really therapeutic and releases all my stress. My wife thinks so too and has never had a problem with it. The painkillers are due to herniated discs in my back, I am very athletic and fit for my age and work out regularly. But because I have such an active lifestyle, my back absolutely kills me in the afternoons. I am physically addicted because of the length of time but don't cross the line when it comes to taking things too far. My wife knows all about this issue.

 

Its the betrayal of trust in what was heretofore (what I thought) a perfect relationship that kills me. Apparently, I did not know her, only the part of her she wanted to share with me. That she could lie to my face for a week straight and allow me to feel like the '*******/idiot' for questioning her also makes me question her respect for me and our marriage. But she says she wanted to spare us this pain and knew she wouldnt be contacting him again.. whatever.

 

I don't think I'm over reacting, but you are entitled to your opinion and I appreciate you taking the time to share it.

 

Furthermore, I never checked up on her or felt the need until our trust was broken.

[Touche]

Just wanted to address this:

 

She is one of those girls always looking for her daddy's love since he never had a relationship with her, so she craves male attention. And that **** just doesnt 'go away'.

 

It may not go away as you say but those feelings can be re-directed in more appropriate ways.

 

You're not a psychiatrist are you? That's something you can bring up in counseling.

 

Also if you don't mind, can you tell me how old you both are?

 

Also, you said:

 

But you know, I just cant help but feel like an idiot if I stay. I think our relationship will be broken because of this, I can never trust her

 

You said pretty much the same thing after "tatt" guy. And after that things were never better.

 

You seem to over react and jump the gun.

 

How long are you both married?

 

Stuff will occasionally to come up in a marriage. You can't just say "I'm leaving. I can never trust her again." It's immature.

 

I don't even see anywhere where this got inappropriate.

 

Why is this a deal-breaker to you?

 

You know your pot/pill addiction would be enough for many women to leave YOU over. She's not doing that. Did she go nuts when you were inappropriate on line?

 

Does she now distrust you forever?

 

Maybe she does have some anger over that that she's not expressing?

 

You guys need to sit down and talk calmly. Talk about your expectations of EACH OTHER. You've not been a perfect model of a husband either.

 

But it sounds like all and all you both have a great marriage. Why bust that up?

 

You think the next woman you meet won't have a single thing wrong with her? Will the next woman think you're so great?

 

Think about this. You have a young family now.

 

You say you'll feel like an idiot to stay but in my opinion you'd be a bigger idiot to leave.

 

Be a man and work through this with your wife.

 

In reading in between the lines I believe this is out of character for her. This doesn't mean this is a lifelong pattern. You have to tell her that you want to trust her again just like she seems to have begun to trust YOU again after YOUR inappropriate on line trysts.

 

And don't say what you did was not as bad. That's just nonsense.

 

And again I ask you? Did it get inappropriate with this guy? Nowhere did I see that.

 

Having a friendship is not cheating. If you're uncomfortable with it, then tell her that and see what compromise you can come up with together. And I mean together. Not you dictating to her how it's going to be. That won't work.

 

Do you think you can work through this?

 

Oh I see you just posted while I posted this. I'll read your previous post and respond now.

[Gzus]

yes, it got inappropriate and was of a sexual nature. She did not tell me the full details and I didnt want to know. But that she deleted all her messages to him each time should tell you something.

 

this is the 2nd time in a week (that I know of) my wife has totally lied to my face.

 

It was totally over the line. I did not talk to my wife about my online chats until she came clean about tatt guy last week. Mine were short term, flirty things than never got overtly sexual. I didnt check, but Im pretty sure hers did since this ex and she have a sexual attraction going back to their dating time.

 

I think I have to wonder if I want to deal with more of this **** in my marriage and life.. being a sucker once is one thing, being a sucker twice is something else.

 

Yes, I do tend to react quickly and emotionally.. but I have learned to trust my first instinct in my 34 years. My wife and I have been married 5 years.

 

Here is an email my wife just sent me:

 

""I know that I hurt you. I can't believe how I could have let this happen. I feel like I don't even know myself now, so how could you.

I don't need to explore my feelings for him. I only want to explore myself and my past my present. I feel like I can't answer the questions why I would do this. Maybe if I deal with the **** I can be a whole person. I truly believe the problem is with me. He was just the outlet for my unrest in myself. I think it is unfair to say I was incomplete in you when most likely I am incomplete in myself. That's why I want to talk to someone.

I love you. I want you to be with me, for me. I don't know how you will ever get to a place where you could look at me again but if there is any possibility I want to try. I will respect what ever you need to do but know that I'm not giving up. I will do what ever I have to."

[Touche]

OK, let me clarify some things. I am not an insecure person and never have been. I have never, ever questioned my wife about her old friends she talks to online or ever been suspicious of anything. I gave her my full trust. When she started acting like she had something to hide, I started checking into things and she disclosed the tatt guy thing to me. Of course I was crushed, but she cut all contact, the guys wife called, yada yada. She continued to not disclose passwords to me during the past week and I didnt ask for them. But yesterday, I noticed her myspace login is different. So immediately I knew something was up. you dont change logins and passwords unless you are hiding something, which she totally was.

 

She has a deep 'connection' with this ex, he is unhappily married and used her for a shoulder to cry on last month. They started talking about how they understood each other and it brought up a bunch of her old feelings and made her question her happiness in her marriage, because of what she felt for him and her unresovled feelings from their relationship. So it was much deeper with this guy.

 

Did SHE say it made her question her happiness in her marriage or are YOU saying that?

 

I have talked with women online inappropriately before, but never for over a month with the same person and grown so close. I told her all this.

 

Doesn't matter. It was still just as inappropriate but in a different way. So in my mind, you're not better than she is.

 

When a core component (trust and committment) is broken in a relationship, it tends to rot it from the inside. Ive been on both sides of the fidelity fence in my past relationships, which she knows. I am 7 years older than her (Im 34) and I know when to cut off contact if things get serious. I just think of my beautiful daughters and how I could never hurt them. But she did not do this.

 

The fact that she didnt cut it off with this guy until I busted her with the tatt guy means she either didnt value our relationship or thought what she had with this guy was worth the risk. Either way, she took this path and put us in this place, not me. Ive been a good husband.

 

You might be a good husband but you were doing the same thing she was. You both just need to recommit yourself to this marriage and vow to not let others get in between you two again.

 

I smoke pot because I am a high stress person in two important and high stress jobs. I dont drink and never have. The herb I smoke at night is really therapeutic and releases all my stress. My wife thinks so too and has never had a problem with it. The painkillers are due to herniated discs in my back, I am very athletic and fit for my age and work out regularly. But because I have such an active lifestyle, my back absolutely kills me in the afternoons. I am physically addicted because of the length of time but don't cross the line when it comes to taking things too far. My wife knows all about this issue.

 

I get that. I'm just saying it might be contributing to your paranoia and insecurity a little.

 

Its the betrayal of trust in what was heretofore (what I thought) a perfect relationship that kills me. Apparently, I did not know her, only the part of her she wanted to share with me. That she could lie to my face for a week straight and allow me to feel like the '*******/idiot' for questioning her also makes me question her respect for me and our marriage. But she says she wanted to spare us this pain and knew she wouldnt be contacting him again.. whatever.

 

Just as you say you know not to take your pot/pill addiction "too far" maybe she means it about not taking this too far. Why do you not believe her? Why are you not willing to let her prove herself to you? It almost sounds like you're looking for excuses to break up this marriage.

 

I don't think I'm over reacting, but you are entitled to your opinion and I appreciate you taking the time to share it.

 

Thank you. But yeah, I think you're WAY over reacting here.

 

Furthermore, I never checked up on her or felt the need until our trust was broken.

 

.......................................

[Gzus]

she told me last night it made her question whether she was satisfied in her marriage when she had these strong feelings and connection for him. But it was something that built up over a month, not something she said she even thought about until they started contacting each other via MS.

 

but today, she says 'after you left last night, I realized my feelings were from me and they were fantasy and had nothign to do with us'. so who knows.

[Touche]

yes, it got inappropriate and was of a sexual nature. She did not tell me the full details and I didnt want to know. But that she deleted all her messages to him each time should tell you something.

 

this is the 2nd time in a week (that I know of) my wife has totally lied to my face.

 

It was totally over the line. I did not talk to my wife about my online chats until she came clean about tatt guy last week. Mine were short term, flirty things than never got overtly sexual. I didnt check, but Im pretty sure hers did since this ex and she have a sexual attraction going back to their dating time.

 

I think I have to wonder if I want to deal with more of this **** in my marriage and life.. being a sucker once is one thing, being a sucker twice is something else.

 

Yes, I do tend to react quickly and emotionally.. but I have learned to trust my first instinct in my 34 years. My wife and I have been married 5 years.

 

Here is an email my wife just sent me:

 

""I know that I hurt you. I can't believe how I could have let this happen. I feel like I don't even know myself now, so how could you.

I don't need to explore my feelings for him. I only want to explore myself and my past my present. I feel like I can't answer the questions why I would do this. Maybe if I deal with the **** I can be a whole person. I truly believe the problem is with me. He was just the outlet for my unrest in myself. I think it is unfair to say I was incomplete in you when most likely I am incomplete in myself. That's why I want to talk to someone.

I love you. I want you to be with me, for me. I don't know how you will ever get to a place where you could look at me again but if there is any possibility I want to try. I will respect what ever you need to do but know that I'm not giving up. I will do what ever I have to."

 

So the bottom line is you don't really know if it got sexual. You're saying two different things above.

 

Listen, this is a first for me because I never ever do this on here but I would really like to email with you and your wife about this. This is against guidelines and I can get in trouble. And as you can see I've been around here for awhile. But I'm giving you my email address because I have a lot to say about this subject and I don't want to get further into it on here now.

 

The fact that you have a young family makes me really want to help in this case. And I know I can help.

 

I'd PM you but I see you just joined recently and can't receive PM's.

 

Trust me though, you CAN get through this. You really can. Everything I've read here about your particular case tells me so.

 

I hope to hear from you both.

[Touche]

she told me last night it made her question whether she was satisfied in her marriage when she had these strong feelings and connection for him. But it was something that built up over a month, not something she said she even thought about until they started contacting each other via MS.

 

but today, she says 'after you left last night, I realized my feelings were from me and they were fantasy and had nothign to do with us'. so who knows.

 

I completely understand this. And it sounds like she does too.

[Gzus]

Touche, I really appreciate your willingness to help. She told me it was of a sexual nature and it was inappropriate. She told me she was disgusted by what she had done. So yea, I dont 'know' because I havent seen the text logs, but her telling me this and being firmly against me reading text logs sort of gives me a good hint.

 

You have given me some things to think about. I am going to leave work (i didnt sleep 1 hr last night) and Im going home to talk to her and be with my daughters for a while. No promises, but I will see what happens and post later. I will talk to her about your offer and see what she thinks. But honestly, online contact of any kind may not be right at this point. I am considering showing her this thread.

 

Thanks again and I will update tonight. You guys are great.

[Touche]

Ok, so she did tell you it was of a sexual nature. That wasn't really clear before.

 

Yes, I think you should show her this thread. It might help. She has to be willing to do whatever you ask as far as her on line activities go. But you also have to stop beating her over the head about it. I understand that your emotions are raw now and you're hurt but you have to be willing to trust her again and move on.

 

On the other hand, your wife has to realize that this is pure fantasy. That her real life and love is with you. And she's right to say that there's a problem within herself. It's not always about the marriage like some believe.

 

She needs another outlet. Perhaps coming on here and talking about this will help. Or go to counseling.

 

You can both heal from this and be stronger. You can.

 

Just be glad it never went further. Doesn't sound like either one of you would ever cross that line. There's so much hope here.

 

And just because you forgive and learn to trust again doesn't mean you're a sucker. Some people are deserving of that chance. Sounds like your wife is one of those people.

 

You'd be a sucker if she was conning you and was going to do this again. Everything in me tells me that that's not the case here.

 

It's ok if you both don't want to privately chat about this. I'll understand. But feel free any time.

[lamaman3]

Gsuz - dont take this the wrong way - just thought Id give you another perspective on the whole thing.

 

I think you completely overreacted to the whole Tattoo guy incident. You said that youve had inappropiate "chats" - CHATS - plural being the key point here - multiple times - and yet you said that you never mentioned them to her - Why didnt you immediately break down and cry to her about how ****ed up you are and how you dont know whats wrong with you that you would do this and that etc. Its probably because you considered a little online flirtation as "harmless" and it had no effect on your marriage so you just let the fact that you had flirted online more than once (and im sure never mentioned that you were married or talked about your wife to these women) go unstated. In fact you even describe your marriage pre-tat guy as "perfect" so apparently if she chats inappropriately it destorys the marriage but if you do it can still stay perfect? I'm not saying it is or it isnt appropiate - but it seems like you are holding a double standard where you dont consider that a huge big deal but the fact that she flirted a few times online with some guy who gave her a tatto enough to make her feel like total ****.

 

From the passive-aggressiveness and suspicion you display and your rage and hostility for the people on the other side of your wifes flirtations I take it you have a very big but also at times fragile ego and an warped view about "honor" and your masculinity.

 

First of all - whats with all the calling the tattoo guy and telling him you are going to beat him up and interfering in his marriage? Any issue you had between is between you and your wife - she and him are both free-willed individuals and she may have engaged in behavior that you dont approve of (at least on her part - maybe not on yours) that might make you question your agreement with her - but his life is none of your business and he certainly didnt do anything to warrant you threatening him with violence (I suspect you wouldnt be violent with him either - and if you would you would be an idiot and should rightfully be arrested for assault). This is the 21st century - women have free will - they are not objects to be battled over and your issue should be with your wifes behavior, not winning her over in a fight between you and another man. The same goes for you tattling on her to her family/friends. She is an imperfect human being just like you and is entitled to her privacy and to expect to work out any issues between the two of you - between the two of you and without third parties or introducing an element of "shame" which I think is just another form of you punishing her. Imagine if she started slandering your name and doing exactly what you have done if she found your chat logS (plural) which you never felt the need to confess to until recently. Imagine if a woman you flirted with online husband called you to threaten you with violence or called your wife and interfered in your marriage like that.

 

Second of all you need to disengage your emotions - your passive aggressiveness got you nowhere except to make your wife feel like **** and I can certainly understand her frustration when you ask leading and insinuating questions that you know the answer to like "do you have any friends on the chat" even after she feels bad and wants to work on things. When she felt bad and said she was going to do whatever it takes to make it better then you should have immediately started working on doing just that. If you had put all your efforts into doing that instead of constantly resurfacing old bad feelings by making her talk to this guys wife then an ex boyfriend wouldve been alot less attractive to talk to.

 

I would certainly be upset about her having sexual conversations with an exboyfriend but I do not think that in and of itself is enough to warrant the breakdown of a family and a divorce. I think the first "incident" with the "tat" guy was not a big deal at all and certainly no different from what you did (inappropiate flirting online with what sounds like multiple women more than once). You correctly made the decision to not tell her about that because you prob figure well youre a guy and that happens and you never did anything physical so whats the big deal. You didnt blow up in a tearful confession and talk about how much you hope she could regain her trust in you. I bet the thought is almost laughable and ridiculous to you. I think where you go wrong is that you think women are different and that a man needs some variety and fantasy and outlet but if a woman god forbid even thinks about another man in any sexual way and dosent think of her husband as some sort of sexual god who absolutely no one can compare to then she morphs into this harlot and of course you take it as a huge bruise to your ego. Your wife senses that and your jealousy and I think any woman would be terrified from that. Its a shame you had to take your own frustration out onto other marriages as well and keep spreading these negative feelings. If you were thinking with your brain and not your ego you would lay down a clear set of REASONABLE rules and focus on the time between you and her and working on the marriage instead of these emotional tirades like a little boy (telling her that the marriage band is worth **** for example which you know is not true and im sure you wouldve thought would be unreasonablt if she said that to you because of your online flirtations.) I think the real thing you should be worried about her saying she has doubts about being with you before your vasectomy. Thats a reflection of how shes feeling about the relationship and you should get to the bottom of it and make RATIONAL decisions instead of lashing out and trying to shame and make her feel bad because of a bruised ego that she would flirt with another man. And personally - I think that she broke down and told you about how she feels about your relationship and inapproprate chatting BEFORE it turned physical is to her credit. Deleting the exes myspace was also to her credit - its a signal she dosent want to do it anymore and wants to focus on you and her marriage - you focus on you feeling deceived but would you be happier if she didnt care enough and just left him as her MS "friend?." Youd probably still be talking about how you cant believe she still has him as a friend after all that. Imagine if you (or any man) had been flirting with an ex-gf online and confessing to his wife before he ever took it physical and begging to start working on the marriage again. From an outsiders point of view and making the flirter a man would you feel as staunchly as you do?

[Gzus]

lamaman3, who are you to make all these inaccurate assumptions and act like you remotely know me? Seriously.. ?

 

I didnt tell the other couples, if you'd bothered to read the rest of it, my wife keeps all the nieces/nephews. The parents bring them in the morning and my wife was a wreck. Of course they are friends of my wife and want to know whats up. Then I am not there and they know somethings up. they know some of it, but not all the details. Matter of fact, i was gone to work and contacted by my brothers asking WTF.

 

You dont even have the timeline right. The things with tatt man and ex were going on concurrently. She broke both off when I caught her. I didnt 'drive' her to talk to the other guy, she was doing it because she apparently loves male attention due to her past abuse for some reason.

 

Lastly, I didnt threaten to 'beat up' the tatt guy. I told him if he ever contacted my wife again, i would drive down there and make his life miserable - left it open ended on purpose.. I want him to pay for what he's done, suffer like we are and face up to his part in helping my wife do this.

 

I am a lifelong athlete (soccer or football, depending on your side of the pond) and have been in many fights in my life in those competitions. Its no big deal. No one is above an asswhipping, even in our ultra touchy feely pc world. as a matter of fact, it would do alot of people a world of good, IMO.

 

I wear my emotions on my sleeve and have never been passive aggressive. I cant keep anything on the inside Im feeling when its like this. But apparently you can deduce all this about me in an online forum. And if you think my actions were immature and childish, you are entitled to your opinion. But you must understand I was not in my right mind and I had been absolutely gutted by this. apparently you think its totally cool for my wife to allow major feelings to develop for an ex online thus jeopardizing our marriage and family structure. this isnt on me. She knew it was an awful risk, and knew it was wrong, but still kept going back. i would have never done that to her. But it is clear to me she needs serious help in dealing with her past abuse issues.

 

In none of my chats did I ever take the relationship too far. Flirting and talking once a month or less. She talked to these guys alot more than that and had deeper relationships with them than I ever have.. believe me, there is a difference.

 

Of course I love my wife and wish I loved her now like I did before. But part of me has just sorta turned indifferent and hardened to her at this point. I am hoping that goes away soon. I have agreed to go to counseling with her. She does not want me to move out, but I think I should move out until we go to counseling. she needs to see what it is like without me around and decide she does not want that if there is any chance.

[lamaman3]

lamaman3, who are you to make all these inaccurate assumptions and act like you remotely know me? Seriously.. ? .

 

No I dont know you, Im just judging you based on what you wrote here like everyone else.

 

I didnt tell the other couples, if you'd bothered to read the rest of it, my wife keeps all the nieces/nephews. The parents bring them in the morning and my wife was a wreck. Of course they are friends of my wife and want to know whats up. Then I am not there and they know somethings up. they know some of it, but not all the details. Matter of fact, i was gone to work and contacted by my brothers asking WTF.

 

So if they know "some of it" then why are you filling them in on the details. Tell them its something between you and your wife. Of course she is a wreck and feels like **** - dosent mean you need to go tell everyone exactly why.

 

You dont even have the timeline right. The things with tatt man and ex were going on concurrently. She broke both off when I caught her. I didnt 'drive' her to talk to the other guy, she was doing it because she apparently loves male attention due to her past abuse for some reason.

 

I didnt say you "drove" her to talk to the other guy. I was saying that if you hadnt kept using passive aggressiveness to bring it up again and make her feel guilty after she had aplogized and fessed up then she her attraction for you wouldve increased and shed be less likely to be talking to ex bf's in bad marriages - whether she had already done it or not.

 

Lastly, I didnt threaten to 'beat up' the tatt guy. I told him if he ever contacted my wife again, i would drive down there and make his life miserable - left it open ended on purpose..

 

Give me a break - you didnt threaten to beat him up just to make his life miserable and then tell me that some people deserve to be beaten up? Your wife is her own person. If she dosent want someone to contact her she can let them know and/or get a restraining order against them. He dosent need the husband threatening him if he touched his "property." Its not such a hard concept to understand - your wife isnt a delicate little flower - she made her own decisions and she will make her own decisions - you injecting threats and force into the equation dosent help anything.

 

I want him to pay for what he's done, suffer like we are and face up to his part in helping my wife do this.

 

pay for what? why should you want to spread the suffering around? Helping your wife? Give me a break - your wife made the decision that affected her marriage - its not his fault that she indulged in it.

 

I am a lifelong athlete (soccer or football, depending on your side of the pond) and have been in many fights in my life in those competitions. Its no big deal. No one is above an asswhipping, even in our ultra touchy feely pc world. as a matter of fact, it would do alot of people a world of good, IMO.

 

By that logic you deserve an asswhooping for having inappropriate conversations while you were married - not much different than what he did. Its not PC to think with your brain instead of your raw emotion

 

I wear my emotions on my sleeve and have never been passive aggressive. I cant keep anything on the inside Im feeling when its like this.

 

You have to make a decision about what you are going to do and then do things that will bring about your goal. Decide to forgive her or not. But dont decide to forgive her and then ask her leading questions that will make her feel bad. Tell her you feel bad and what she has to do to fix it - dont ask her a question that you know will make her feel bad for no apparent reason.

 

But apparently you can deduce all this about me in an online forum. And if you think my actions were immature and childish, you are entitled to your opinion. But you must understand I was not in my right mind and I had been absolutely gutted by this.

 

which is why im giving you an outsiders perspective not tainted by your emotion.

apparently you think its totally cool for my wife to allow major feelings to develop for an ex online thus jeopardizing our marriage and family structure. this isnt on me. She knew it was an awful risk, and knew it was wrong, but still kept going back. i would have never done that to her. But it is clear to me she needs serious help in dealing with her past abuse issues.

 

actually if you read what I wrote I specifically said that it was not cool. The question is what you should do now - So she talked inappropriately to an ex-bf for a month online - if you want to break up your family over that then go ahead - but dont let your emotions and bruised ego cloud your judgement is all im saying.

In none of my chats did I ever take the relationship too far. Flirting and talking once a month or less. She talked to these guys alot more than that and had deeper relationships with them than I ever have.. believe me, there is a difference.

 

Deep relationships with the tat guy? She knew him what like 2 weeks? Talked to her ex for a month? And did you keep contact with a woman over a period of a few months? Going back to flirt with them multiple times? Did you tell them that you were married? Apparently you thought it wasnt a big deal. And that was with you working two stressful jobs - imagine if you were home all day you might have indulged in it more often. Do you think its ok if its infrequent but not if its more frequent? There is not logic in what you are saying.

 

Of course I love my wife and wish I loved her now like I did before. But part of me has just sorta turned indifferent and hardened to her at this point. I am hoping that goes away soon. I have agreed to go to counseling with her. She does not want me to move out, but I think I should move out until we go to counseling. she needs to see what it is like without me around and decide she does not want that if there is any chance.

 

This is not a bad idea on your part - let her see what its like without you - but focus more on achieving your goals and avoid behavior that is in response to your hurt and just serves to spread your hurt to other people.

[theobserver]

I really have to stop some people here who are telling Gzus he's overreacting and also the bizzare comments about his past talking to others too and how it wasn't a big deal for him.

 

Let's get one thing straight, FROM what I've seen from Gzus responses he himself has talked to the opposite sex online like we all though there can always be minor flirting but as he said this was a if anything once a month thing, barely enough time to ignite a relationship of any sort he knew his limits it never got personal it's just a chat and there's no misleading here.

 

His wife on the other hand took these friendly online chats to new levels, chatting to tat guy whenever possible, it started innocently but as with most things if you spend too much time with someone especially of the other sex fixed on one topic eventually it becomes boring you start to talk about yourself she didn't keep moderation and then it turned sexual for an "ego boost" In my mind this was because of contact with the ex bf if we're to believe anything she said. Since her Ex was back on the scene after her she's realised she'd desired for whatever reason she probably decided if anything was to happen she would make it happen with the ex and cut contact with tat guy a little before you found out.

 

That chats were not harmless with tat guy so much so that if I remember rightly his wife is divorcing him or is atleast aware of what happened and isn't pleased, if your spouse/partner doesn't approve then it isn't right.

 

Ok as for the ex, what a sneaky piece of work, she's married nnow with children I bet this talk started friendly enough and before you know it theyre talking about the past, talking about how good the sex used to be even if it was sh*t and talking about how they wish they never broke up deep down as most people feel with ex's obviously unless abusive. She only broke down to tell Gzus because of the vesectomy counselling. He's going through all this and she's just realised OMG I'm an as$hole I have to tell him. If he was going to play a game of tennis that day she would not of told him.

 

It doesn't matter if she's home most of the day, if she's feeling bored trapped. Communicate. Incase some women arent aware , us men especially when single know how to target desperate women we have the knowledge hardwired housewifes stuck at home with just kids to talk to are prime targets and thanks to friend networking and what not it's easy to track down old friends and ex's.

 

During wartime many a wife left home alone or now working for the first time fell if you prefer "victim" to many men playing on the fact they were now sexually deprived , needed company and what not it still applies today many women are still left home holding the baby while the man is away and it just takes one ballsy man to step in and be her extra support to get into her pants.

 

You have done the right thing leaving in my opinion. She wants counseling because the realisation of what will happen if you leave. She's going to be stuck with the children and while 100% I'm sure you'd give support you love your kids she's going to realise "oh crap" nobody to fund my lifestyle only food, will my virtual men help me will they man-up to be with a woman with children not theres? If they truely care maybe but very likely she knows her ex is most likely just after sex and the only person who is going to stand by her and the CHILDREN will be you for now.

Again I just think she's buckling over pressure.I don't think tat guy and her ex were the only men she talked to you did not "drive her" to this, your personality is not the cause and if it was there's a little thing called ... "communication" that can help.

 

To a post above, I'll tell you why it's easy to blame the OM sometimes if you are the BH it's because deep down we all know women are emotional and given the right questioning or state a woman will pour her heart out to you on everything that is wrong with her life therefore IF you wished giving you the key to what you need to do to make her feel like a million dollars. Alot of snakes of men can find this out easily on women in relationships as there are usually always complaints. Why? Because people irritate eachother, even a couple who look the most in love. Fact is nobody in the world is 100% happy with anybody they are with, family member, friend, partner/spouse. So I think he just felt tat guy and exbf have played this card.

 

There used to be an old joke saying women are Time and Money keep neither up or balanced and you lose her.

[JackJack]

I understand you're upset and frustrated, and rightfully so. However, I have to wonder if maybe you were ready to possibly throw in the towel on the marriage pretty much before any of this came to light. You admitted to chatting to other girls online as well, and when you first found out about the tattoo guy, you seemed very ready to throw in the towel. Then after all this other stuff came out, you were ready to walk too. I'm just saying thats the way it came across, not that its that way it is for sure.

[Gzus]

After much talking, crying and what not, we've decided to recommit, to give it a shot and go to counseling. Her feelings for this guy are intense right now, but she says there is no way she could ever be with him and will never contact him again. She thinks her feelings for him will fade over time and that we can build a stronger bond and love. She says I am the love of her life and can't imagine life without me. We both now realize there was something lacking for each of us in the marriage and were more open about very personal feelings. She says she wants to build a stronger future with each other and swears on her children she will never leave me and wants us to be together forever. Ive got to respect that and take her word; she's a great woman (beautiful, intelligent, funny, outgoing and a great mother) and worth fighting for. Ive thought a whole lot about life without her and all I can see is terrible unhappiness, self destruction and regret. We do have something worth working for and trying to save. Thanks for all your help.

 

Lamerman, you pissed me off pretty bad, but you helped me see some things differently. No hard feelings. I'll post back periodically if anyone cares to keep up.

 

Gzus

[Touche]

That's great news! I'm sure you can work this out.

 

Your wife should understand that the feelings she has/had for him are based on nothing but fantasy. They're not really real, though she may think so.

 

I swear I sometimes think this kind of thing is a mild form of insanity!

 

Please do keep us updated. I'm sure your story will help others.

[lamaman3]

Gzus - no hard feelings - your situation - been there, done that - its not easy and I know how you feel.

 

You seem like a good man - I know another forum that id like to recommend to you - much different than this one - and seeing how you dont have patience for touchy feely PC bull**** (a sentiment I can relate to) - I think this forum would give you invaluable advice and a different way of looking at things in terms of your marriage and relationship management. Im not sure how to PM on this thing but Id like to refer it to you privately. Go ahead and email me at [email protected] and I will give you the link. Let me know whether to look out for your email.