Married & in love w/married woman who is having another affair

[Gator]

After 12 years of marriage I emailed an old high school sweetheart and now ex-girlfriend. Seems she caught her husband in bed with another man 2 months earlier and was going through an emotional breakdown. We lived 1000 miles apart and while I was unhappy in my marriage (my wife told me she didn't love me anymore, but would stay married for the sake of our 3 children) I never thought I would fall in love again.

 

After 3 months of emails and cell phone calls we met for the first time and ended up making love. 3 months after that I was transferred to my hometown, 30 miles away from my old high school sweetheart. My wife and children followed.

 

While she asked her husband to leave the house in February of last year, she broke up with me via an email last October. Within 2 weeks her BEST FRIEND calls me asking to reconsider having her back in my life. Like an idiot, I took her back and we became even more serious. Trips, vacations, spending more nights at her house, we became even closer.

 

After having the courage that my children would be fine without my physical presence, I finally moved out of my home this past April and made it perfectly clear that my soon to be ex wife and children would be assuming the home I was living in once school ended. My 'ex-girlfriend' is 38, childess (she suffers severe depression at 'that time of the month' every month, overweight, and an alcoholic. She pounds a bottle of wine a night. Her ace in the hole? She is extremely pretty and has an open mind regarding sex.

 

Last month she informs me she has been offered a job in the southeast (where I moved from) and would like for her an I to build a house together. Her dad showed us plans for his house and my exgf was excited about the possibility of her and I starting a life together. I had put her three nights a week visit to the local bar behind me, her temper tantrums, and the fact that while she has NO kids with her current husband (my wife and I have been discussing custody before we actually file) she hasn't moved forward to file a divorce.

 

To land the plane: one of her roommates from college passed away recently and she obviously went off the deep end. I came to her house that night to comfort her and stayed the night. The next night was her HS reunion where she met a man she hadn't seen in 20 years. He's an attorney (who lied to her about where he graduated from) and within 3 hours of chit chat with him, she decided to call me and break up our relationship.

 

At first she said all she wanted to do was date and get our divorces behind us, now it turns out that after only one meeting with a divorced 'rich attorney' who is 'very nice,' she has invited him to her home for a long weekend.

 

I'm not financial slouch...I make over six figures a year. Her contention is that after I pay alimony and child support I'll be broke. I never counted on falling in love with this woman and am heartbroken that after 2 1/2 years, and two days after being intimate, she destroys a relationship and a friendship.

 

I have tried to find a good reason why I care about someone who is unstable, an alcoholic, mean spirited, self-centered and materialistic. Her mom and one sister are the same way. Any advice?

[luvmyboys]

Yes. Dump her. She certainly isn't as commited to you as you are to her. It's too bad your own family broke up, but it sounds like there wasn't much holding it together anyway.

 

Sometimes going back in time, as you did with a highschool sweetheart brings those youthful feelings to you that you once had. Except it seems this woman has an awful lot of baggage that she's been carrying around for years and continues to do so.

 

Why you are attracted to someone like that is anyone's guess. Maybe in some way you feel you can pull her out of the rut she's in and it might make you feel better, but she doesn't seem to respond the way you hope.

 

Perhaps talking with a counselor or just breaking ties with her and not looking back would be the best thing you can do for yourself.

 

Devote your free time to some new hobbies, time with your children, etc.; and experience the life of a single man instead of jumping right into a new relationship, and a troubled one yet.

[Gator]

Thank you luv. I had never been unfaithful to my wife until I met my ex gf three months after 'meeting' through email. It seemed fate was in the cards when I was transferred back to an area I left 25 years ago.

 

When my exgf broke up with me last October (via email) to say she was reconciling with her husband (whom she threw out of the house 9 months earlier) I was devistated. I had no idea; out of the blue. I normally saw her only sporaticly (sp?) during the week and always one or two days on the weekend. She was adament about me 'not clipping her wings' and 'smothering' her, so I gave her plenty of space. Of which she spent hanging out in the neighborhood bars with her two girlfriends (each in their mid 30's-40's) and each without children. So I gave her the space she wanted, and in the end was criticized for not having enough time for her.

 

Her main focus has been having a child. As a father, I always maintained that a child is a product of a loving marriage, not a race against her biological clock. I questioned why after 37 years she didn't find a man who was willing to have children; how with her sense of independence she can even imagine having a child; how with her drinking and going out she can give 100% of her energy and time to a child. All I've heard is that I'm damaged goods since a reversal isn't guaranteed (I love her enough to have a child with her, even with three of my own from my soon to be previous marriage) and that this attorney doesn't have the baggage I have in this department.

 

I took her back weeks later and we have gotten along very well. Discussing building a home (until it came out that the job she said she was offered in the southeast, and told her family and friends about, actually wasn't offered at that time) and moving on with our lives took place less than 2 months ago. I had been offered a position within 15 miles of where she would've worked and my soon to be ex was willing to move back to the southeast. It seemed perfect, until my exgf admitted the job wasn't actually offered to her. Luckily, I didn't give notice to my current employer and convinced my soon to be ex wife to stay so the kids could be near to me.

 

Not to ramble, but during this time I am living in a spacious, unfurnished home while my soon to be ex wife and children are living in another home 50 miles away. I didn't furnish my home because: a) I was expecting to move to the southeast with my exgf; and b) my stb exwf and kids were going to be moving (leaving their lease early) into the bigger house in a better school system. Once they did this, I was going to move back to the old house and finish the lease which expires in October.

 

My ex gf has given the reason for our split as me not being able to be self supporting and make enough $$. She feels that because I was living in an unfurnished house (3100 sq ft) that I was in actuality still living at home. NOT TRUE AT ALL. I tried to explain that if she felt so bad about me living in an unfurnished apartment, why didn't she ask me to stay periodically like she used to. My opinion? In the past it was a test to see if I could actually get out of the house overnight. Once I could in her eyes, I was hers and basically, toast.

 

I also tried to explain that I had come to the realization I wasn't going to live there after all when we were discussing building a house together, and why should I spend $$ on furnishing a home when my stb exwife and kids would be living there within 2 months with the furniture from the old house? Her cold statement was that she needed a man that could pay his own way, and that it was strange that I was living in an unfurnished house.

 

This summer was great up to the point of her friend passing away. Trips, dinners, fourth of july with her family (not with my kids, further proof that I had a life of my own), amusements parks, one night hotel stays. What a fun summer...until a month ago. Ironically after 2 1/2 years of waiting for me to be on my own, I'm on my own...and as I speak she's entertaining a man that before he flew in for the weekend, her history with him is three hours at a high school reunion. 5 days and 4 nights in her home, sharing the bed we shared together, and there is nothing I can do about it but be in total shock.

 

I thought when I passed the age of 25 this crap wouldn't happen. How can someone take you into their bed one night and within 36 hours want to end a 2 1/2 year relationship with someone who they claimed was the best lover they've ever had, treated them better than any man has, and is the first man who both her family AND friends have approved of? Money. Pure and simple, money. She stated she doesn't want to sacrifice and that she's selfish and doesn't want to want for anything. He doesn't have child support baggage and in the end will have more money to bring home. I question how a 38 year old, divorced, childless attorney is the answer to her child/money/love needs. I thought we were progressing nicely...finally...and the bomb that has been dropped is numbing.

 

I appreciate all advice. I'm a well educated, confident, intelligent decent looking man with great fatherly instincts. I fell in love hard with this woman...I really thought I had found my soul mate.

 

Thank you for your ear and advice. This is great thearapy.

[Gator]

What I had neglected to expand on earlier was that she felt this 'rich attorney' was a sign from her former roommate who passed away last month.

 

Her former roommate passed away on a certain day of the week and I went to her home to comfort her after a company social event (invitation only). We made love that night.

 

The next night was the first night of her 20th reunion. She didn't want to go but I encouraged her to do so...to get her mind off of her friend. We had plans for the following night and she really didn't want to go to the 'formal' reunion, just the cocktail party the first night. She was leaving the day after the formal party for four days to her family reunion 2000 miles away, and I knew if I didn't see her before she left it would be a week until we reconnected.

 

Well she had such a great time at the cocktail party, she wanted to go to the formal as well. I was a little dissapointed that I wouldn't see her for a week, but I was being the understanding guy in this whole thing. It was during the formal reunion that she met her attorney friend who told her he was always madly in love with her in high school. NO call that night from her, a few calls during the week from her family's reunion, and a breakup call when she got back the following weekend telling me she wants to date this guy.

 

This is good thearpy....but I need some advice. Thank you for allowing a total stranger to vent...

[Gator]

Forgive me...the 'sign' from her deceased roommate is that the attorney and her deceased roommate are from the same city located 300 miles away.

 

Is this crazy?

[midori]

Originally posted by Gator

Is this crazy?

 

Yes, I'm sorry but I think it is. I think the whole thing is crazy.

 

A few things struck me while reading all of the details you provided:

 

1. Your soon-to-be ex-wife is incredibly accommodating and understanding. I really hope that you appreciate that. Wow.

 

2. Your ex gf is an absolute, utter nightmare. Unstable, self-centered, untrustworthy. Alcoholic. Depressive. Overweight. Sounds like everyone's dreamgirl.

 

Love? Do you really think it is/was love between you an your ex gf? Based on what you've said I'm wondering if you were looking for excitement, for drama, for something else to consume you, something you weren't entirely responsible for. In fact, something which you have little control over.

 

I know that marriages sometimes go stale. Dull, predictable. Your ex gf, on the other hand, is anything but. And you mentioned that sex with the ex gf was extraordinary -- something else that was lacking in your marriage?

 

From what you've said it sounds to me like your marriage was in trouble -- death by boredom. But it's hard to let go of something that has lots of good elements. Especially if you have the sense that maybe it could be saved/turned around ... if you knew what to do.

 

Or maybe it couldn't be saved, and you still found it difficult to end it. The ex gf made that much easier. It's so much easier to walk away from one relationship if you're already consumed by another. The new relationship provides further justifcation for walking away from the old one (a good thing if you weren't feeling entirely justified in ending the marriage).

 

So: you got out of the troubled marriage. The ex gf was your exit strategy. OK. But that doesn't mean you have to stick with her now. And I can't imagine why you'd want to. In addition to all of her other flaws, she makes up lies about jobs she doesn't have -- weird. She just sounds like one big mess.

 

My advice is to take a bit of time out to think about things. Getting a counselor or therapist would be a very good idea. The whole situation seems very tangled and knotted. Get things straightened out a bit. Figure out what you want. Does your happiness lie in constant melodrama, uncertainty and worry? What does your ex gf really represent to you?

 

Obviously I don't know about the good things between you and your ex gf. But the bad things seem so overwhelming that she'd have to be reaaaaaalllllllly good in bed to make it even possibly worth it. And since you're making six figures a year, you could pay a professional for that and forget the hassle. (I'm being a bit facetious to make a point)

 

Good grief. The ex gf sounds like an aboslute nightmare. I feel sorry for any man whose path she crosses. Yikes. I hope she never has kids.

[Gator]

Midori:

 

Thank you for the post. I really appreciate your unbiased, honest words.

 

I fell in love with my stb ex wife at 16 (24 years ago) and we had the common sense to date other people in college. It wasn't until after our third child that our marriage began to stagnate....and our relationship go sideways.

 

I think the ex gf was a flashback to my previous hometown...she was a petite, attractive, wild girl in hs who all the guys wanted to date. When we met however I was a little thrown back by the stories of countless romps with men that never materialized into relationships (she even mentioned a former boyfriend/weekend away story while we were on vacation celebrating our anniversary...it ruined the vacation) and the lack of respect for taking care of her body through food and alcohol. But I still fell very much in love with her...not to be her knight in shining armor, but truly in love with her. I wanted to reverse my vasectomy and have a child, but deep down I knew she was capable of something like this.

 

She has experience dumping men, getting super involved and walking away. Aside from her, I've only been in TRUE love once in my life, and that's with my soon to be ex wife.

 

I thank God that I didn't involve her with my children. They are angels and know that despite what may happen, their mom and dad love them very much. I'm thankful my children wasn't exposed to this mental mess.

 

Keep the posts coming. Your advice, thoughts and prayers are sure welcome

[Gator]

I cant get this out of my head. Tonight is the last night her 'friend' is in town. She told me that she is very difficult to be with more long periods of time and that they would probably be 'incompatable' and that she would be tired of him by the end of the weekend. I told her this past week that if that was the case, just call him and cancel...she said he already bought his tickets and couldn't be that mean to him.

 

I guess I was hoping to get a call saying she made a mistake and that she was sorry...and would like to reconcile. I know its denial and wishful thinking.

 

Not hearing from her since last Wednesday...he came into town on Thursday morning. Was I dissillusional to think I would hear from her if they weren't 'hitting it off. I can only imagine what's going on tonight.

 

To make matters worse...why would she tell me she hasn't decided if she's going to sleep with him or not? And why would she say that nothing will probably happen due to her 'monthly vistor?'

 

It's been four weeks tonight they met...and three since she ended our relationship suddenly. I need advice as my head is spinning.

 

Your posts and advice is appreciated.

[jenny]

with respect:

 

did your wife explain why she no longer loved you? did you ask? why did she follow you? in terms of your storyline, this section seems disturbingly glossed over to me. i do understand that she embodies the angelic side of the virgin/whore dichotomy, i just want to know what happened between you two, exactly.

 

you also seem intent on, even enjoying, depicting yourself as the victim. how much can you have loved a woman that you are so pleasurably trashing in intimate detail now?

 

take this as a loving challenge, my dear. truth is found in dialog.

[Gator]

My wife and I grew apart, period. After the birth of our last child (3rd) she stopped working and became a stay at home mom. Our relationship dwindled from husband and wife to mother/father and sister/brother. I never counted on running into a woman I knew 25 years ago in middle school.

 

I'm not trashing the woman I loved who unceromoniously dumped me after 2 1/2 years together, and one month removed from discussing moving across the country together, after having a three hour discussion with a 'rich attorney.' I love her to this minute. I'm just explaining who she is and if someone can explain to me why I feel the way I do over someone of her personality.

 

This isn't glossed over and I'm not trying to play the victim. I'm hurting and am asking for a little advice.

 

My wife brought herself and the kids three months after I moved across the country so the kids would be near me. Period.

 

My ex gf played the two sided sword of : "give me space, your smothering me with 5 calls a day on my cell just to telll me you love me. Your checking up on me;" to: why havent you called? You never have enough time for me. I could never win.

 

I'm looking for a woman's point of view or a man's point who has been through this before. My wife wants to start dating me again and see if we can work this out. I'm in love with my ex gf who is sleeping with a guy tonight she met four weeks ago for three hours. Help!

[midori]

Originally posted by Gator

My wife wants to start dating me again and see if we can work this out. I'm in love with my ex gf who is sleeping with a guy tonight she met four weeks ago for three hours. Help!

 

Ah, at last, the most important detail. Your wife DOES still love you and wants you back. I'd been wondering about that, and jenny pointed out that you glossed right over it -- which, Gator, you did.

 

You've been looking for women's opinions, and two women think it's quite significant that you avoid mentioning your wife as much as possible.

 

You might want to think about that.

 

More than ever, my advice is to get yourself to a good therapist. It seems to me that you are misdirecting your energies and affection, throwing them at a worthless, hopeless woman who manipulates you and makes you miserable instead of focusing on the real woman in your life, your wife. Who has put up with so much.

 

It must be hard to even think about: in addition to having to figure out why the spark left your marriage, now you're faced with 2 1/2 years of betraying your wife, rejecting her for this awful bimbo, basically making an utter ass of yourself over a no-good woman while your wife held on and coped as best she could. My best guess is that your wife's pronouncement that she didn't love you and was only staying for the kids' sake was either a) a signal that you two needed to work on your marriage, or b) a prideful response to you starting up with this other woman ( you don't mention whether it happened before or after meeting Ms. Walking Toxic Disaster (henceforth known as MWTD)). You've got a lot to make up for. Hard to think about.

 

Obsessing over MWTD means you don't have to accept the role of transgressor. You get to be the Wounded Party. You get to be the One Who Suffers in Love.

 

MWTD is a bad bet no matter how you look at it. Even if you weren't married. She's awful, and I'll bet that your friends and family are simultaneously appalled and amused that you're making such a complete fool of yourself over her. It ain't love my friend. It's an obsession, a distraction. You need to figure out from what.

 

If you haven't been trying to trash MWTD in your description of her here, consider the fact that all who have responded to you see her in absolutely the worst light possible. I don't automatically assume that the person posting about their problem is the one in the right, the sympathetic one. And when it comes to your wife, I have sympathy for her more than you. But MWTD disgusts me. I'll bet most people who know her in real life feel much the same.

 

It's as if you've grown tired of the family car and so abandoned it for a vintage hotrod that was all the rage when you were young. Nice little fantasy, and in theory it could be a good car. But for some reason you haven't noticed that the thing barely makes it out of the driveway, it's belching smoke, shuddering, and dragging its tailpipe (I don't know much about cars but you get the picture). You're so chumped to be out of your boring old family car (a minivan, perhaps) and so psyched by the idea of driving this old hotrod, that you haven't noticed that it's an absolute wreck. It's not going to get you anywhere. Supposing that your wife moves on and gets a new car for herself, your hotrod doesn't even have room for your kids. And in its current state, it would be dangerous to let them anywhere near it.

 

Get thee to a therpist my friend. You were a bit defensive about Jenny's questions regarding your wife, and that ought to cue you in to the real source of your emotional dischord. MWTD is a distractor. In that, at least, she's suited to her role. But she's good for little else.

[Kat]

You referred to her as your ex g/f in your first post. Obviously she isn't anything more. Do not go ahead with that 'relationship'

[Gator]

Midori:

 

Thanks for the post. Your honesty is apprciated.

 

I have to say that maybe you're right about the hot rod, and DEFINATELY right about my friends and family's impressions or her. Even her father told me I'd be an idiot to want to marry her, and her mother? According to MTWD her mom has NEVER told her she loves her. One messed up family.

 

As far as my wife's concerned: I heard she didn't love me anymore 18 months before I even dropped MTWD a line on email just to say hello. 18 months. Before that, I was the initiator in counseling (which my wife didn't go to), church (which Ialone took the kids), sex (it simply stopped), and family get togethers.

 

I didn't bitch about her suddenly staying at home and leaving her profession, putting our financial house in disaster. With no warning she left her profession with all the bills we had while she was working. I'm a professional and making a good living, but 25% of our income walked out the door with the decision being hers and only hers. I wasn't resentful, but I put in longer hours to make up the difference. And after three years of trying to make it work overtime at home and work, she tells me she doesn't love me anymore. A beautiful golf course house with a pool, a loving husband who coaches little league, great neighbors. I asked if there was another man and she said no, just grew out of love. That's it.

 

18 months after that, I send an email to MTWD. Coincidently, that was 2 months after her marriage fell apart after finding her husband in bed with someone else We happened to be at coincidental point in our lives and hit it off.

 

I never planned on falling for MTWD, it just happened. I never thought I would fall in love again, but I did. I see know that I began to really she her for who she is with the casual conversations about her past with other men and her sharing her photo albums with pictures of her and yet other men in her past. Pretty disturbing. But I took the big boy/grown up approach as her past is her past and was bound and determined to stick it out. Make it work. And when we were together we were great; when we were apart and she was going to the neighborhood bar 3 times a week it was volatile. Watch out, your're checking on me again kind of behavior. I just want a normal suburban family kind of life and the conflicting signals she gave me by saying she wanted the same kind of life but behaving in a different way was very confusing.

 

I feel I have alot going for me and I am NOT playing the role of the abuser. After three years I simply gave up trying to make my marriage work. We both decided that we were in it for the kids, period. That was 18 months before I emailed MTWD.

 

Three months after the email we met, no expectations. Sparks literally flew. She opened the door to the condo, and after 20 years of not seeing her I pinned her against the wall and we kissed for what seemed like an hour. We made love; and even after 3 1/2 years of a loveless marriage I had tried to put back together, I felt guilty as hell.

 

To cut the chase Midori: I was downsized in my job and offered a new job, with a company that assigned me back to my hometown. What a coincidence. We both thought it was fate. But when I pulled out of my driveway to drive to my new job 1000 miles away, my wife and I BOTH knew at that moment in time she was NOT coming with me. Her family, my family, the kids family, friends, contacts were there, not here. My wife had NO idea about MTWD at that time and was not coming with me. It wasn't until three months later that after a lackadaisical (sp?) effort to sell the house that she decided the kids missed me too much and that she would relocate as well. And she did. But since she moved almost 2 years ago we haven't been intimate ONCE. I have been faithful to MTWD because I LOVE HER.

 

I didn't want to write a book on the first post, and I"m not trying to gloss over anything. I'm just confused why after the short amount of time between hearing a woman is in love with you, and wants to start a llife and build a home with you, and shares her bed with you, that within 36 hours her head turns to a total stranger because of his $$??? How this person whom I've confided my thougths, love and soul could invite this man into her home for the weekend, literally share a bed with him after their first date? She wants to grab him hook, line and sinker just like she did to me when we first met 2 1/2 years ago. Dont you think?

 

My problem with that thought is that at that time we had spoken via email or phone at least 2x a day for three months. Burning CD's, care packages, flowers. Maybe I'm rationalizing our initial intimatcy and making it more special than it was, comparing it her having this guy over for a first date/weekend. That's what I want to know. How could someone simply share their body and mind with you on a Thursday and on a Saturday want to date a guy after only 3 hours of conversation? And then make plans to have him into your home and bed WITHOUT EVEN GOING ON THEIR FIRST DATE!! Tell me how. She said he doesn't have $$ or child baggage. OUt of the blue. She's met my kids and up to this point never thought she thought of my kids as baggage. My heart is breaking and I really dont know how to cope with this.

 

As far as my wife goes, she admits that if we date this is the last chance to make it work. She admits that if we dont we're divorcing. We get along fine. We're friends. The kids know we both love them all very, very much and they are aware that mom and dad may not stay together. We're separated and living apart now but she wants to give the patient one last shock treatment before calling the time of death.

 

As with any situation, there's more to this than meets the eye. Thanks for your honesty and post midori. I respect your opinion and look forward to your response.

[midori]

Originally posted by Gator

I didn't want to write a book on the first post, and I"m not trying to gloss over anything. I'm just confused why after the short amount of time between hearing a woman is in love with you, and wants to start a llife and build a home with you, and shares her bed with you, that within 36 hours her head turns to a total stranger because of his $$??? How this person whom I've confided my thougths, love and soul could invite this man into her home for the weekend, literally share a bed with him after their first date? She wants to grab him hook, line and sinker just like she did to me when we first met 2 1/2 years ago. Dont you think?

 

Well ... she slept with you right off the bat. Bear in mind that until you saw her in person you had no idea what was going on in her real, daily life. Maybe some other poor sucker got kicked to the curb when you arrived on her doorstep.

 

 

My problem with that thought is that at that time we had spoken via email or phone at least 2x a day for three months. Burning CD's, care packages, flowers. Maybe I'm rationalizing our initial intimatcy and making it more special than it was, comparing it her having this guy over for a first date/weekend. That's what I want to know. How could someone simply share their body and mind with you on a Thursday and on a Saturday want to date a guy after only 3 hours of conversation? And then make plans to have him into your home and bed WITHOUT EVEN GOING ON THEIR FIRST DATE!! Tell me how. She said he doesn't have $$ or child baggage. OUt of the blue. She's met my kids and up to this point never thought she thought of my kids as baggage. My heart is breaking and I really dont know how to cope with this.

 

On this front, Gator, I've walked in your shoes a bit. Eighteen months ago my ex was sobbing on a street in New York because he still loved me and missed me (he lived abroad) and hated the fact that we weren't going to be together (his decision). The next week he was meeting an old highschool gf in London and fell immediately in love with her. This was a man who'd loved me for three years, who'd wanted to marry me until my acceptance into a fantastic graduate program made moving overseas right away impossible.

 

It happens. I suspect it's more likely to happen when the person in question feels like they need to bail out of their prior relationship, for non-emotional reasons. As I think I said earlier, it's easier to walk out of one relationship if you've already got another one lined up. You can throw yourself into the new one and actually use it as further justification for needing to finish the old.

 

Or you can try to use your involvement in the new one as a weapon, as something your partner finds so unacceptable that they will be forced to terminate the relationship themselves. You make them do the thing you haven't got the backbone to do yourself, but feel must be done. You do that by insulting them and (emotionally) abusing them. Most people don't appreciate being cheated on. It's usually a deal-breaker.

 

Now why, you ask, does MWTD want out of her relationship with you? Why is she trying to force your hand into ending the relationship by behaving so heartlessly and outrageously?

 

I think you already know the answer. You're a stand-up kind of guy. You're responsible and caring, you're respectable, hard-working, solvent, and grown-up. She is none of these things. And she isn't going to become them just by being around you. I'll bet she admires you a lot. I'll bet that she wishes she were the sort of woman who would be suited to a nice guy who just wants a comfortable life in the suburbs. But she's not that kind of woman. I'm not even making a value judgement here, note that I'm not saying that she's not "worthy" of such a person as you are (although frankly I think she isn't). What's important is that she's not cut out for you and what you represent. No matter how much she'd like to be. In her heart she knows this is true.

 

And while your kids might be cute and well-behaved, and while your income might be sufficient to accommodate them and a new wife (and possibly more kids), it is undeniable that they will require sizable portions of your time and resources. A wholly selfish person such as MWTD cannot deal with "competing" with anyone else. She is fundamentally insecure (and no amount of love and support from you can change that; it's an internal problem), and so she WILL see having to share you as competing. A healthy woman who truly loved you would not see things that way. They would know that you can love them fully and still love your kids and have an affectionate & friendly relationship with your ex-wife.

 

But MWTD is not healthy. She's not mature, she's not secure with herself. She is not capable of taking you on. It's fun for her to pretend, sure. It's fun for her to fantasize about being with a great, stable guy, and having a nice new house and a job. But she's no more capable of living that life than she is of being a royal princess, with all the accompanying responsibilities and constraints. You might as well be Prince Charles (though I hope you're better looking than he is). And unlike Eliza Doolittle, her unsuitability stems from the fact that inside she is a knotted mess. She doesn't need someone to help her with external shortcomings like diction and deportment. She would need someone to re-work her entire personality. And that's just not going to happen.

 

It's not going to happen. Felt the need to emphasize that. Take it from me, an old hand in the "well with a bit of work, love, and time he could grow into the person I want to be with" kind of love. Doesn't work, it's a guaranteed way to break your own heart. People change only slowly, at their own pace, if they want to. You cannot encourage, inspire, or create the change yourself.

 

So much for MWTD. Now, as for your wife, I'm sorry to hear that you've been through the wringer with her too. Good grief Gator, you've had an awful lot of misery in your life in the last few years. Based on the few details I know, I wonder if your wife was/is suffering from some kind of depression. The way she withdrew from everything -- work, her marriage, church -- seems unusual for a healthy person. And her refusing counseling, etc. would be fairly typical for a depressed person. Has she been treated for depression?

 

With the background you've given, I think that merely "dating" would yield little for you and your wife. If she were willing to go into some kind of counseling with you, and to go into therapy herself (with the possibility of being diagnosed for depression), that might be worthwhile. I think you should get yourself into individual counseling/therapy. It's not just for people with troubled childhoods or neurochemical imbalances. Talking to an objective third party who can help you to structure and examine your issues in a logical way can be enormously helpful for anyone. Again, speaking from experience.

 

If your wife isn't willing to get some help then I think you're right, there's really no point. But in that event, MWTD is still not a good option. MWTD is not a good option in any scenario. I know that doesn't erase the love you feel for her. But it ought to make it clear to you that your love for her is not a good thing for you. It's something you need to examine and do your best to dismantle. Again, I suggest counseling. Counseling has been quite helpful for me in coming to terms with the fact that I still love my ex. It's not as painful as it used to be, and while it's still a presence in my life, it doesn't cloud it completely. And my ex was nowhere near as bad as MWTD. Nowhere near.

 

Try to find someone who practices cognitive behavioral therapy. They won't ask you to ruminate about your childhood, they won't try to interpret your dreams, or ask you if you've ever had sexual feelings for your mother. They'll just help you get a grip on your current situation, and see if there isn't a better way of handling things.

 

Good luck Gator. I'm rooting for you.

[Gator]

Thank you Midori. I am truly rooting for you as well as hope your heart is mending as well.

 

I hate to sound redundant, and maybe my head is spinning too much from all this, but why would toxic do this? I spent the fourth with her family (the sixth family gathering with her this year) and less than a week want to date this guy? Why show me off to her family and inlcude me only to drop the bomb. Was this presdestined? Why, why, why?

 

Tomorrow I need to pick up a piece of equipment from her home that belongs to my company. I worked around her yard two weeks ago and didn't finish the job; I assumed I would be back to complete what I didn't finish. I dont want to see her, but I need to get this from her immediately. She told me earlier last week to keep the remote to her garage and that we wants me to keep my clothes at her house. I want to give her the remote, but I really dont care to keep the t shirts and underwear she bought me that are still at her home. How do I handle this tomorrow night? My work needs this piece of equipment now and it can't wait, but I dont want to show up the day after her friend leaves. How should I handle this?

[Gator]

And why would she try an string me along by sayiing she only wants a 'break' for awhile, spread her wings, and see how it goes for two months? Again the dating I agreed with, its the weekend sleep over with a stranger I'm having a hard time visualizing. I know if this person were a pipefitter this wouldn't be happing, I know its about money and status. I'm wondering how a successful northeastern attorney could be caught up in a rushed sense of intimacy and how he could respect her as well. I got to know her for almost four months and still didn't have any preconceived ideas of what was going to happen.

 

She tells me he's given up his practice at 38 to move here and run a golf course. Could be a line but who knows. I feel suckered and stuped, and yes, chumped. I may have been an ass with my affection but I loved her unconditonally, and now its time to heal. But I dont care to see her face tomorrow and I"m going to have to when I pick up my work's equipment.

 

You have given me great reasurrance Midori. When she calls me (and I know she will) do I return calls? Drop her like a hot potato? It's obvious I lost my lover and best friend all in one swoop, but how much of a best friend could she have been to have such little regard for our relationship? I NEVER saw this coming, not after spending the fourth with her family and the night at her house less than a week later.

 

Thanks Midori. My prayers are with you as well as you continue to not only move toward the life you deserve, but your unselfish attitude toward helping others. Thanks.

 

GAtor

[midori]

Get the stuff. Give her the remote. Take the underwear and throw it out when you get home.

 

You should recognize that, among her countless shortcomings, MWTD is not going to be able to do the right thing. Even though she knows what it is. She knows that she has no business in your life, that she cannot support you emotionally, that she cannot tolerate your involvement with your kids, your other responsibilities. Etc. But she's too selfish and weak to close the door herself. You are going to have to do it. You will have to become the Heartless One who Ends Things.

 

By giving you continued access to her house, and her life, she effectively entices you into staying around while absolving herself of responsibility for you remaining there. She knows she's not good for you. But she likes the things you provide her with and doesn't want to give you up. If, after what she's done, you CHOOSE to stick around, that's not her fault. You've seen what she's capable of, she has given you "fair" warning. Is it her fault that you're overly generous and forgiving? Is it her fault that you still love her and want to be with her? Nope. Then she's free to be her old, flakey, irresponsible self AND have you. She doesn't have to live up to your standards of responsibility and decency, because you will have chosen to be with her even after seeing that she's not responsible or decent (or kind or trustworthy or healthy).

 

She knows she's not up to what you are. Until this cheating episode, being with you implicitly meant that she needed to try to be worthy of you. Now, if you come back even after she has betrayed you, she need not worry about that. And she can also look down on you a bit, as a weak person who allows himself to be used and discarded at her whim.

 

She has thrown down the gauntlet: deal with my behavior as any reasonable person would (by leaving and never looking back), or accept the enormously flawed person that I am with the understanding that I am not going to change.

 

If you allow her back into your life after this, no ultimatum in the future will carry any weight. She'll know that no matter how much you're hurt, no matter how awful she is, you'll stick with her. You'll rationalize things, make excuses, create ways to live with the crap she dishes out.

 

Give back the remote, get back your equipment and anything else you can think of that she has. Discard anything she has given you. You need to erase her from your life. This woman is not someone you want to expose your children to. If you can't do it for your own sake, do it for theirs. In taking such a creature into your own life, you are foisting her onto them as well. Your relationship with her will affect them. Do you want your kids to be affected, however indirectly, by someone like her?

[midori]

Bring along someone else when you're picking up your stuff from her. Someone who doesn't know her or, better yet, someone who doesn't like her. Best of all, send someone else with the remote who will pick up the equipment and anything else that she needs to return to you.

 

If you can't find someone to accompany you, make plans to meet someone for dinner immediately after you pick up your stuff. Minimize the amount of time you spend at her place, don't create opportunities for conversation. There is nothing to discuss. Don't just make a lie about plans you have, make actual plans that would be difficult to break. If you're going to her place at 6:30, plan to meet someone elsewhere at 7:00. This should only be an exchange of property, which can't take more than 10 minues. If she's got other things to ask you -- "could you take a look at my kitchen faucet while you're here?" or "let me show you some pictures from the Fourth of July" -- you won't have the time. Believe me, you don't want to have the time.

[Gator]

Thanks Midori. I REALLY appreciate where you're coming from and will take your advice to the 't.'

 

Initially I thought she would have some sort of remorse or even think of me this weekend; maybe in time, she will. But i doubt it. Your posts from an inpartial point of view has really opened my eyes to the kind of person she is. She'll do this again. And based upon her relationship history, and the vagueness of how each relationship ended, reaffirms that this has probably happend before.

 

Seems she never got out of the 8th grade rut of 'going out' and 'breaking up' every time a guy smiles at her. I pity this guy if he's ends up being the father of her child, especially given that at 38 he is childless himself. For obvious reasons as well.

 

In the end this seems to be a blessing and someone is looking down on me. I dodged a HUGE bullet to the forehead. Love is unexplainable isn't it? I may be an intelligent, well adjusted man but love was blind. What I see so clearly know I never saw coming. LOL Now I"m beginning to be pissed off for allowing myself to be SO DUPED and allowing my kids to get close to her.

 

What is also unfortunate is the permanent disconnect between her family and I. I had grown close with her sister who lives here, her husband their kids. As a matter of fact, her two young nephews run up to me, past her, and give me a hug when we first see them at any family gathering. Every one of her family members, bar none, hug me and tell me how great it is to see me; and do the same when we leave. I felt a part of her family and grew to care for each and every one of them very much.

 

But I'm going to miss her nephews the most. They are the same age as my sons and we had both talked so extensively about how the family would grow. So sad.

 

So there you have it MIdori. Losses all the way around that obvisously she didn't care for at all. Or did she? Or does she still? Or is she literally going off the deep end after her friend died? So much of this makes sense due to past behavior, and so much doesn't.

 

Nonetheless, thank you for your support. You have been a savior.

 

Gator

[Gator]

Midori:

 

Do you think she has the slightest bit of heart to at least think of me this weekend and have any sort of guilt over what has happened?

[midori]

I'm glad I've been able to help, and I appreciate your good wishes.

 

She probably does love you in her way. But a person who isn't secure at their core cannot incorporate love into their life in a lasting, significant way. It has nothing at all to do with the person they love. Until person learns to love themselves and have faith in their ability to be a good person (despite mistakes), that person is never going to be able to truly love another person in a meaningful way.

 

I'll bet she really does admire you, respect you, and have affection for you. Doesn't mean she's capable of being with you. The problems are hers and they are for her to solve. I think you're right in comparing her to an eighth-grader. Adolescents often believe that they have to be perfect, that others won't love them or even like them if they have any flaws. Perversely, she is hugely flawed almost as if she's afraid to actually commit herself to trying to be a mature and healthy person. You can't change that for her. You're also right in thinking that she will continue to repeat this behavior with other men. She is a real big mess. She may well always be so.

 

You've been hurt but you've made it out without further entanglement. You'll get over the loss of her family members. After all, you have your own family, your own kids. Her nephews will be fine. Focus on your own kids.

 

No matter what went on in your marriage, and no matter how things end up with your wife, I think you'd be much better off devoting your energy to getting a healthy resolution with your wife. Try to get her into counseling with you. See if she'd be willing to talk to a clinical psychologist. Get yourself into a counseling situation. Between all that, your work, and your kids you ought to be too busy to spare much thought for MWTD.

 

Good luck.

[Gator]

Thank you so much Midori. You have been more help than you know by helping me sort all this out. Whether she thought of me this weekend mattered to me, I guess I wanted some reaffirmation that I meant something to her or that she still loves me. You're right, it just doesn't matter as she really isn't ready, nor is she capable, of the type of relationship she led me on to believe we had. Or never had. She doesn't have the mental makeup to really have a loving, committed relationship with any one man. That would force her to face problems head on and deal with the normal highs and lows of a loving, commited relationship. Her focus instead is on the superficial.

 

PART of my healing is knowing there wasn't really anything I could've done differently. This was predestined before we even met. The questions of: "Did I move too slow, did I show enough attention" are pointless. I blamed myself and know I see that it wasn't all me.

 

Thanks so much again. I am looking forward to being on the same plane as you in the months and years ahead. It sounds as though you're healing nicely as well. Continued good fortunes to you too!

 

Gator

[Gator]

Midori:

 

I"ll let you know how it goes tomorrow. Keep me in your thoughts.

 

Gator

[jenny]

generally, the only way toward empowerment in a given situation is to first take accountability. i am genuinely curious where you feel *you* are emotionally culpable in this whole situation - and i do not mean 'guilty of falling in love with a bad, bad, woman.'

 

i'm not asking you to construct yourself as the abuser; just as an equal player who made choices and must deal with the consequences of those **self-determined** choices.

 

it does not seem to me you can get out of this situation until you recognize that you got yourself into it; what the 'scarlet' woman does should be immaterial to the outcome.

 

again, please take this in the spirit of gentle challenge

[Gator]

Jenny :

 

I am more than willing to look myself in the mirror and take accuntability and responsibility; i.e empowerment.

 

But I have no idea what you mean!

 

I'm no dummy, just trying to understand what you're saying.

 

I dont blame her...or anyone for that matter. I simply shared her bed, encouraged her to go out and have a good time at her reunion, and I get a bomb dropped on me that she's inviting a man over she JUST met for the weekend because 'he's an ivy league graduate (I later learned he went to a city law school) who doesn't have the baggage of children to supprt. ' She even went on to say: "I admit it, I"m selfish and dont ever want a need for money." Well she's known how much I make for over 2 years and has been fine with this all along.

 

I came to this forum to ask how a person can be intimate and discuss life-long plans one day, and in less that 72 hours toss it all away after meeting someone for the first time in 20 years over a three hour period.

 

I'm on my own and have been for three months. My exwf and I have been discussing custody and $$. My exgf and I have been discussing marriage and moving on, most recently with her family over the fourth. On the 12th she meets this guy. What am I supposed to think? Recognize that it took 'two to tango?' I thought we were in love Jenny. This came out of left field.

 

You pose me as very intelligent and insightful. But how can I feel empowered with a two-by-four upside my head? LOL