Married & in love w/married woman who is having another affair

[jenny]

giggles; thank you for taking this in the right spirit :) i have this great guy friend who never lets me indulge myself dramatically in co-dependence, and i want to pay his directness forward. and i totally accept that my last post was not very specific, let me try again.

 

so you're right, i do think, judging from how articulate your posts are, that you are very intelligent. you might be in love, but i think you are probably well aware of the picture of this relationship that you are creating.

 

too intelligent, in fact, not to look at your motives for chasing after someone that you have spent a considerable amount of font criticizing. all the information we have about this woman is filtered through you, and she sounds like one of the worst examples of humanity available. she sounds **unbelievably** callow. if i were her, and read this forum, at worst i would never talk to you again, if not sue you for libel. at best i would wonder what kind of weak man would need to love a woman that he also clearly despises.

 

so these are my more specific questions to you:

 

what ego gratification does this woman really offer you? sex, memories of high school, drama, but i kinda suspect she also causes you to feel powerful, judgemental, and stable.

 

does describing and contrasting her behaviour afford you, be honest, any pleasure? it seems to me that you contrast her drinking with your relative sobriety, her lifestyle with your wealth and earning potential, the poor opinion of her in her families' eyes to their positive opinion of you, and her instability with your steadfastness. all the reports about her may indeed be true, but you are also choosing to highlight and construct those differences in your writing. (i obviously don't know either one of you, i'm just responding to the information and tone available)

 

next, why did you continue with this woman and why do you still care? she has found a new rescuer type to play with; she is not even worth the amount of head-space you are giving her. we only have a certain amount of emotional energy per day, it sounds to me she is using a good 40% of yours.

 

to some degree, i believe love is a choice. we are not slaves to our hormones nor to our destructive patterns. in the spirit of my hypercandid friend, if you are not staying in a situation because of economic dependence or physical fear, there is something about the pattern that is giving you some kind of pleasure - this is where responsibility can be taken.

 

can you name one thing you did wrong in this whole situation? just one thing - is there any point at which you were not perfectly open, reliable, and almost saintly in your patience? is it possible that you would not now be wifeless, cuckolded by your mistress, and miserable, if you had not made a few mistakes? do you even feel that your infidelity was a huge mistake or do you feel that can that be justified by your wife's announcement?

 

again, please take this lovingly. i really dig it when people make me see that i can't change anyone but myself. i see confrontation as a sign of respect, but i realize not everyone enjoys it, so you are very cool for responding so well.

[midori]

I think Jenny has raised some interesting questions, although I guess her interpretation is not the same as my impression of Gator's situation.

 

This might be condensing too much into a neat little answer, but I wonder if the attraction to MWTD is the fact that, unlike Gator's wife, she was actually encouraging him to try to be in a relationship with her. From the sound of it, Gator's wife just withdrew & shut down. It's impossible to engage with someone like that. The appeal of MWTD (that's Ms. Walking Toxic Disaster, the ex-girlfriend) might have been that for all her terrible flaws, she gave him something to dig into, something to throw his energy and affection at.

 

His wife went so far as to tell him that she didn't love him and was only in the marriage for the kids' sake (I really do think she ought to be checked out for depression). That's gotta hurt, and it's cold and alienating. MWTD was not cold, at least. Quite the opposite, she was red hot with thoughtless passion, self-induced crises, and melodramatic schemes. Easy to get sucked into, and that might be quite appealing to someone who has been shut out by his wife.

 

Might have been a lot of things feeding into it. The important thing is to end it.

[jenny]

(giggling at self) - i think i'm intent on using the devil advocate's razor. i quite see your p.o.v midori - and normally i would be more sympathetic, but i'm skeptical only because we are having all these events narrated by a party that, despite his infidelity, seems to feels himself entirely blameless. (but please correct me if i'm wrong, Gator)

 

admittedly, i just dig accountability and rigourous introspection - i like the idea of someone saying - well, nevermind her dozens of flaws and mistakes - what is wrong in myself that i wanted this dynamic in my life? again, this might be personal preference.

 

out of interest, i have compiled a list of things wrong with this woman according to these posts:

 

-shallow

-drunk

-inability to form family relationships, many think poorly of her,

-evidently emerging from a maternal line of drunken, self-centered sluts

-promiscuous

-moody, unstable, finally crazy because of roomate's message

-unable to get a man to give her children

-overweight, though pretty (but don't forget shallow)

-fickle, and vulnerable to a few hours conversation with a man

-entrapping

 

i'm sure i'm missing a bunch, but ten was enough. it's interesting to compare this monstrous list with how well he thinks of himself. i actually hope, for her sake, she never has contact with him again.

 

i really would often take the side of a victim in these circumstances. but, honestly, something seems off here to me, though i am, of course, happy to be wrong. i'm certainly not keen on making forum enemies but this is my straight-up considered (and re-considered) opinion.

[midori]

I don't think anyone, including Gator, doubts that the relationship and his love for this woman is unhealthy. And I didn't get the impression that he thinks she tricked him into loving her; I think he is genuinely questioning why he was drawn to her, and why he's still stuck on her. He's also questioning her recent behavior, which is normal in the circumstances.

 

I took his listing her many, many flaws as a way of saying "why am I stuck on this woman, can someone please help me out of this situation?"

 

On the matter of his wife, I agree with you Jenny. He's far too detached from the situation, and would do better to focus himself on resolving that relationship than to spend another second wondering about MWTD. And at first I thought he was perhaps throwing himself into things with MWTD to provide justification for bailing out of his marriage -- "I can't help it, I'm in love with someone else." Which is what I think you're suggesting. But Gator later explained that his wife basically shut down and shut him out of her emotional life more than a year before he got in touch with the other woman. So I don't think it's entirely the case that he's got a bizarre madonna(wife)/whore(ex-gf) thing going on, or that he's obsessed with MWTD as a means of distracting himself from the way he treated his long-suffering wife.

 

That's the impression I got anyway. But like I said before I'm sure it's much more complicated than the rather simple analysis I offered.

[Gator]

I apprecicate both of your opinions and honestly look into what you both are saying as a means to heal and look at what honestly happened here.

 

Jenny: you think for her sake I you hope I dont contact her? lol What the hell did I do to her besides love her unconditionally? My marriage was over 18 months before we even said hello for the first time in over 20 years. You listed 10 things I have known all along about her but felt that yes, because she said over an over she loved me and wanted a lifetime together, I accepted. For better or for worse.

 

Midori's post hit it on the head: I'm just wondering how I could've believed her all along when within 36 hours of intimacy, and my support to go to her reunion and get her mind off of her friend, she hooks up with another man she just met. And then invites him into her home for a long weekend.

 

I'm not ready to DATE again, let alone have an intimate relationship with another man. She justified it by saying he has money, she wants a certain lifestyle, and doesn't want to sacrifice any more. She showed me love and attention, we were a couple for over 2 1/2 years. Within 36 hours I was talking to a woman I DID NOT KNOW! Her entire personality for me changed overnight from a caring woman who reminded me she would love to have my children on alternating holidays to one who is telling me she hasn't decided if she wants to sleep with this guy when he comes to visit. And you wish for her sake I don't contact her???

 

I'm not trying to play the victim, simply put: I never thought I would love anyone again after my marriage fell apart and I did. Hard. I fell in love as an adult, not as a young teenager who then eventually married because I thought it was the right thing. My nightmare told me over an over this was different for her too: I was her best lover, her best friend, no one had ever treated her EVER as well as I have, and that for the first time her family accepted the man she was with. Of course we talked marriage, of course I accepted to a reversal as a natural extension of the love I have for her, only to be told she wants a comfortable life? She doesn't know this guy from Adam. But she knows what I'm all about and after 2 1/2 years, my divorce is finally happening. Then she bails.

 

I've seen her true, gold digging side which ironically didn't come out until I began to file. Midori is right on: I"m wondering how in the hell after all this I still give a rats a**. This came out of left field. Was I played for her self-esteem? Did she have any intention on marrying me at all when it all came down to laying down the cards? Was this a game to see if she was 'special' enough for me to divorce someone over? I dont know.

 

I didn't disrespect a 2 1/2 year relationship/friendship, I wasn't unfaithful. She did and was. And Jenny, you hope for her sake I dont call her?

 

Wow.

 

Again, all I've been asking for is a little advice as to why I even care and why she would do what she did.

 

I appreciate both of your insights into this. Thanks guys.

 

G

[Gator]

WHOOPS!!! LOL I meant I wasnt ready to DATE again, let alone have an intimate relationship with another WOMAN. lol She sure rushed into her situation with this guy in a hurry.

 

I think its to show a rich, successful attorney that she's a red-hot woman who's different than any other woman he's met. What he doesn't know is that she's in it solely to have a child and a life of $$.

 

I can only reason that he sees through this; unfortunately, I didn't until it was too late.

 

One last comment Jenny: I dont think I"m perfect at all. I have my flaws. I committed adultery which I"m not proud of. But at least I knew my marriage was over a full 18 months before we even met. I have felt more married to my nightmare the past 2 1/2 years than I have my wife for a number of reasons: love, compassion, friendship. We called each other soulmates. I haven't been intimate with my legal wife in years.

 

On paper I"m married to someone else, but in my heart I was married, joined by souls, to my nightmare. I let my heart go and my guard down and got burned. I'm far from perfect and have my share of flaws. But loyalty, faithfulness, and commitment to a relationship aren't part of those flaws. Nonetheless, I appreciate your comments and welcome another point of view!

 

Thanks again for all the support from the both of you. I'm dreading seeing her tonight. But I have to pick up my work's equipment and put this chapter behind me.

[midori]

Originally posted by Gator

Thanks again for all the support from the both of you. I'm dreading seeing her tonight. But I have to pick up my work's equipment and put this chapter behind me.

 

Good luck and let us know how it goes. I hope you won't let her get you into any kind of conversation, either of the seemingly benign and banal sort, or about "deeper" things. Nothing to discuss. At the same time, don't get yourself all pumped up to make her feel bad by ignoring her -- cause you might trip yourself up if you're expecting her to try to talk to you and she doesn't. Speaking from experience here.

 

Your mission: get in, get your stuff, leave hers, get out. That's all. If she offers no resistance in that, great. If she does, you've gotta move cos you've got plans for the evening.

 

You made some plans didn't you? If not, order one of your employees to meet you at the local tavern for a Very Important Meeting during which The Drinks Are On You. And then kick back and watch whatever sporting event is on the bar's television. Let your employee go home after one drink if they want to.

 

But make yourself accountable to someone to be somewhere else, away from her, half an hour after you arrive at her house.

 

Fingers are crossed Gator. You'll be fine.

[Gator]

Midori:

 

I get the feeling you know EXACTLY what went down here and understand EXACTLY how I'm feeling and coping with all this. You have become the one true support I've been talking to about this and I appreciate all your kind words and thoughts.

 

I'll let you know via PM what happens. Thank you so very much.

 

G

[Gator]

I have finally moved on with the help of her 'ex-best friend/sister/girlfriend' who my nightmare also cut off and alienated after their three year relationship.

 

It was through her ex best friend I learned of three other instances over the past 2 1/2 years that my nightmare was unfaithful. It has also come out that her attorney friend "who she claims she is getting serious with even though they haven't seen each other in two months" not only HAS three children of his own (she said originally that he didn't have any), but that he's 'fixed' and can't have children of his own. LOL

 

In the course of the past two months she's called and invited me over and dropped subtle hints of potential intimacy. Lately, its been the same, occassional call to invite me to her home, and then breaking the plans at the last minute.

 

While we're not a pyschologists, in order to heal ourselves her ex best friend and I spent hours on the phone trying to find the reason(s) why someone we loved and cared for so cruelly dropped our relationships, and friendships, and love, without any remorse. The answer can be summed with the definition of a Narcissitic Personality. When I read the HUNDREDS of testimonies on this I felt such relief, such cleansing. It wasn't me at all and there was NOTHING I could've done to prevent this. But the red flags that were there from the very beginning were reinforced by these testimonies...and when I read these, I shook. The pattern(s) were IDENTICAL to what I went through.

 

A Narcisstic Personality feels no love, no remorse. There entire being is searching for more sources to fuel their attention and ego...and once you are used like a vampire using their prey, you are discarded with no sense of emotion or feeling. YOu are replaced by someone else who can serve as a source. Of course it is much deeper than that, but I recommend to ANYONE who is living with, friends with, or acquanted with a narcisstic personality to learn all you can about this disorder. They are unable to continue a healthy, normal, loving relationship. Their 'real self' discards, humiliates, demeans...but in their 'illusion,' their grandoise self is admired, loved, and the source of everyone's attention. In short...when a new, better and improved source comes along, the solid, time honored foundation is boring and burned to the ground. That is their mode.

 

For me now...its' been over three months and I have no desire to ever see, speak to, or ever be with her again. I'm healing day by day, but learning about narcisstic personalities has enabled me to at least know I never want to be in that type of relationship ever again. Her ex best friend and I have become good friends. We learned that she pitted each other against each other in order for us NOT to become friends, let we begin to compare notes about our nightmare and get to know the real her. For 2 years I begged my nightmare to include her friend and her husband in our outings, only to be told they weren't interested. Her friend did the same, only to be told I didn't like them. The lies came out the minute she ditched us both uceremoniously. Her friend was discarded after the nightmare had too much to drink and acused her friend of dating another friends ex...sounds almost too comical to believe! LOL Three years of a realtionship down the drain over hearsay...and coming from someone who was acusing someone of unfaithfulness days after being unfaithful to our relationship. The drama a narcisstic personality creates is ever-going because they hate the normal loving routine a long term relationship creates.

 

I also have begun to at least speak to my wife again and spend more time with my children. I've missed 2 years of the kids life I"ll never have back again. As far as my wife is concerned, who knows? We have never 'gotten along' better than we have the past two months. Maybe I had become a mirror image of my nightmare....and now I"m becoming more and more like my old self.

 

Thanks for this board. Good luck and God bless to you all.

 

G