Threesomes In His Past

[carhill]

Yeah, so, if you're straight, he's got nothing to worry about. Ask him how he feels about "restrictions" on you and other guys

 

Does he talk about sex a lot?

[wittygirl09]

Oh and just for reference since this has been brought up a few times, I am agnostic/atheist and he is a Catholic.

 

He whole-heartedly believes in his religion and I am very doubtful of organized religion. We have learned a lot from each other as a result though. Pretty crazy how opposites attract.

 

carhill --

 

I am okay with him watching porn and going to strip clubs.

 

He is okay with me working at Hooters if I choose (which I probably won't lol but he already approved it) and going clubbing and dancing with other guys, he just said he doesn't approve me grinding but I agreed with that restriction. I am free to makeout/grind/hook up with girls but I just couldn't do that to anyone I am in a relationship with. I am straight but did makeout with a girl once due to pressure and alcohol and didn't enjoy it.

 

I am getting over the threesome thing but still feel disgusted when I think of the mental images which pop into my head from time to time. I am not obsessing with it as much though.

 

Also, he can discuss sex a lot but completely respects my boundaries and takes my feelings into consideration.

[carhill]

Hmm, I guess Catholicism has changed a bit since I was an altar boy

 

Really, you all get that specific as to what behaviors/actions are and are not appropriate or acceptable? All this after 5 months of dating? Actually, I'm pretty impressed. I could tell you the story about my wife and the Brazilian dancer while she and I were dating, but that would be a bit off-topic. Yeah, he was that hung

 

Also, he can discuss sex a lot but completely respects my boundaries and takes my feelings into consideration.

 

Sounds reasonably healthy. What about this distresses you, in the here and now? For the moment, forget about the past.

 

Would you feel more comfortable if he discussed sex a bit less in detail? Your discomfort with his past causes me to inquire.

 

Be aware I use humor to get my points across. The above story, while true, underscores that one has to look at the big picture and the totality of the relationship, even in light of certain discomforts with parts of it. "Bending" a bit. Since your BF is respectful of your boundaries, which include non-negotiable aversions to infidelity and threesomes (I presume), does it sound like you have a big problem or a little problem? If you "bend" by accepting his past, what do you lose? Gain? Something to think about...

[Cherry Blossom 35]

I think what really bothers me is how he hid this from you. He presented himself as one thing, and then after you fell for that image, he came out from behind the curtain. That's not fair.

[InLimbo2]

Nobody - and I mean NOBODY can truly understand all the little intricacies of a relationship except the people in them. So - I would stop worryin about did he or did he not cheat on this prior woman and focus on the relationship between you and him.

 

Sounds to me like you - for whatever reason - did some 'experimenting' of your own. Why crucify him for his when you had your own?

 

Tell him point blank you are into monogamy and exclusive relationship. Ask him point blank if he is up for that. If he says yes - then let it go - his past is his past.

 

 

Oh and just for reference since this has been brought up a few times, I am agnostic/atheist and he is a Catholic.

 

He whole-heartedly believes in his religion and I am very doubtful of organized religion. We have learned a lot from each other as a result though. Pretty crazy how opposites attract.

 

carhill --

 

I am okay with him watching porn and going to strip clubs.

 

He is okay with me working at Hooters if I choose (which I probably won't lol but he already approved it) and going clubbing and dancing with other guys, he just said he doesn't approve me grinding but I agreed with that restriction. I am free to makeout/grind/hook up with girls but I just couldn't do that to anyone I am in a relationship with. I am straight but did makeout with a girl once due to pressure and alcohol and didn't enjoy it.

 

I am getting over the threesome thing but still feel disgusted when I think of the mental images which pop into my head from time to time. I am not obsessing with it as much though.

 

Also, he can discuss sex a lot but completely respects my boundaries and takes my feelings into consideration.

[InLimbo2]

Oh please - really.

 

If you were to describe yourself and your traits to a new paramour - would you immediately whip out the 'worst' thing you've ever done? Sounds to me like this guy hasn't been with tons of women, his experience level is pretty much the same as the original poster, and this 3some was an anomaly - he hasn't had any since - or run around crazed lookin for more - or asked the poster to do one. A 3some is a top fantasy of men - he had the opportunity - he took it. Doesn't mean he can't be monogamous now and for the rest of his life.

 

I think what really bothers me is how he hid this from you. He presented himself as one thing, and then after you fell for that image, he came out from behind the curtain. That's not fair.

[AAlike]

 

When I asked him why it would be okay for me to hook up with a girl and not a guy, he said "Sorry... I don't know. Maybe I am just a perv."

 

hmmm - up until now, I had thought that he had handled himself pretty well through the whole thing. given the situation, however, I really think that he could have addressed this a little better...even if he really does feel this way.

 

anyway, I forgot about the no PM thing for new members. to be honest with you, I'm not real psyched about posting my e-mail address/AIM handle on the forums - not that I think that you are anybody else is going to do anything with it - but my e-mail address is kind of distinctive and I've had some weird problems from disclosing it before, especially in a forum like this!

 

i know that sounds ridiculous but so is what happened (lol). if you want to give me your AIM name I'm 100% up for chatting (and you now have the added incentive of this story).

[AAlike]

This guy seems awfully into what he gets out of the deal. He did not validate your concerns in the interaction that you had with him about his past. He justified his actions.

 

He also seems to have you as some cosmetic accessory. Lose him... fast.

 

I don't think that this is the case AT ALL.

 

How exactly should he have validated her concerns? by "repenting" and renouncing his previous actions? Why would he do that when I doubt that he feels as if he's done anything wrong? In fact, validating her concerns would only serve to compound the problem - what he was probably attempting to do is show her that she shouldn't HAVE any concerns. If he just responded with "honey I'm so sorry, I made a HUGE mistake and I regret it to this day" that might make her feel good for a little while, but that is not "getting over it" - it's actually just the opposite, and would probably result in her secretly resenting him for it for a long time to come.

 

I've been exactly where OP is - where you just can't reconcile something that you find to be unacceptable with the person that you love. You don't know really WHY you care, but you do. You KNOW that it's in the past and shouldn't matter, but it does. You don't really WANT to blame them, but you do. and you keep harping on it, hoping that they'll say the one magical thing that makes the puzzle fit and restores your perception of them to where you want it to be. you feel like you need answers but are continually unsatisfied with what you get.

 

The problem, obviously, is that the magical saying that makes it all go away does not exist - and the more that you keep searching for it, the more it's going to seem like an attack to your SO. It may seem callous that he got mad at her, but he's right - there's nothing that he can do at this point and she needs to decide on her own if it's a dealbreaker - and his recounting of threesomes is pretty much dead on with what I've heard from those that have engaged in them as well...part thrilling, part embarassing, but really not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things (surprise surprise, just like every other sexual variant). it was dumb of him to say anything about "bragging rights" but at his age that may have been driving him as silly as it may seem.

 

However, nothing can be gained from OP continually bringing it up. I quizzed my GF so much about her threesome that she's told me that her only memories of it at this point have been so clouded and altered by trying to tell me what I wanted to hear that i'd probably be able to describe it better than she would at this point. for her it was a moment in time that had came and went - it wasn't really good, it wasn't really bad, and it was wholly and entirely insignificant when compared to our physical relationship. and when I think about my past liasons (something that helps me a lot), it's kind of the same thing.

 

I think that the BF is doing exactly what he should be doing, trying to convince her that she's making a mountain out of a molehill - and only if she can realize this will they have any future.

[wittygirl09]

AAlike --

 

I feel like someone finally finally FINALLY understands what I am going through, thinking, etc.

 

I have been researching this obsessively and have been looking for the exact same "remorse" or "perfect answer" in terms of my understanding as to why he did this.

 

P.S. I guess I will be on tonight at 8 pm EST anyway because Hurricane Fay got work canceled lol

[AAlike]

AAlike --

 

I feel like someone finally finally FINALLY understands what I am going through, thinking, etc.

 

trust me, I wish I wasn't able to relate so well. but as soon as I read your original post I knew that I would be able to offer some advice as I can tell that you are exactly where I was a few months ago.

 

I have been researching this obsessively and have been looking for the exact same "remorse" or "perfect answer" in terms of my understanding as to why he did this.

 

ah yes, the research stage. I was definitely there too - you have a need to "normalize" it to yourself...I mean it can't be that crazy if "21.2 percent of americans have done it" or whatever, right? heck, I can probably tell you every threesome-related numerical statistic that has ever been compiled. obviously you see the problem here - you're only further sensationalizing it in your own head.

 

P.S. I guess I will be on tonight at 8 pm EST anyway because Hurricane Fay got work canceled lol

 

cool well I will look for you.

[Grrlish]

I'm afraid to bring it up now, because every time I do (which has only been twice in a two month time span) he feels like he is being attacked no matter how sensitively I bring it up.

 

WittyGirl, then quit bringing it up. It's time for you to decide if you can get over it or not.

 

See, I'm with you. I'm not a prude but you know...I really don't need to know those kinds of details (threesomes and such) about a new boyfriend's past. I am sure my boyfriend has done things that I'd really rather not know about. In part for the very reason you mention: visualising it and thinking about them doing it.

 

Why in the world would anyone tell someone those kinds of details so early in a relationship? I'm not sure that details like that ever need to be shared.

 

My biggest fear is that I am a monogamist and he is not.

 

If I were in your shoes, I'd be very concerned about that, too.

[rproctor]

My biggest fear is that I am a monogamist and he is not.

 

If I were in your shoes, I'd be very concerned about that, too.

 

Seriously? You have got to be kidding! How does having a threesome permanently stain someone as a polygamist? Tell me, explain that to me? I'm pretty sure you cant, because its not valid. Trust me, having a threesome is not going to taint someone, or prevent someone from being monogamous. That's ignorant.

 

Truth is, if your bf kept that to himself, you would never second guess him or question that about him. He probably has not done anything to deserve the kind of judgments you are placing on him: shame on you.

[wittygirl09]

I guess my fear is irrational but if he could share his previous girlfriend with another girl/guy in bed then it really makes me wonder if he could do the same with me. And if so, then we have a different definition of cheating, relationships, etc. I care about him and even if it makes me a prude or less sexually adventurous or whatever, I could never watch him while he penetrated a girl or be okay with another guy touching me or penetrating me in front of him because I care about him and want to be intimate with no one but him. I don't even think I could have a threesome when I'm single, why would I be okay with it when I'm in a serious relationship? I know a lot of swingers talk about seperating emotions and physical intimacy but to me they go hand in hand. If he views them as seperate, I'm not saying he is wrong but I guess I feel like we may potentially be incompatible.

 

AAlike --

 

Sorry about yesterday, there was a lightening storm so I had to turn on my computer but I will definitely be on tonight. I hope we can chat then.

 

Everyone else --

 

Currently my debate is: is this really a big deal where I am settling despite my views or is it not a big deal and I am doing the right thing by trying not to have it be a concern? I wish people would stop just sayings "get over it", it's not that easy. One thing I have noticed though is whenever we talk on the phone (it has been long distance since May since I am home from school), and he makes jokes or acts silly or is really caring, all my fears dissolve and I know he's still such a sweet and yes, to some degree, an innocent and awkward guy lol. But when we go longer periods without talking and I think about it too much, he turns into this giant lustful player in my mind that has lax views on sexuality, etc etc. So I don't know if it is what he actually is v.s. who I thought he was or who he is v.s. what I make him out to be in my mind. If it is the former than it makes me want to dump him, if it is the latter than I am ashamed of how I am behaving.

 

Is it a legitimate question to ask if he would ever consider having a threesome with me or would that open an unnecessary can of worms up? He already said he would never expect one or ask me for one but that's not saying he doesn't "want" one.

 

And he always tell me I am by far, the best he has ever had in bed because in the past, it just didn't feel fulfilling etc. It makes me want to ask questions specifically about the threesome which I haven't. Like who it was with, what they did, when, if he enjoyed it, etc. I keep having this mental image of him having sex with his girlfriend while she is blowing another guy and then two really hot porn stars blowing him at the same time and it crushes me so much. He doesn't seem like "that kind of" guy at all. Maybe having the specifics would calm me down if he told me it is much better in fantasy than reality? Or if it wasn't that great and is overrated?

 

Part of me feels like I judged guys in the past based on if they were a virgin or not, drank or not, tried drugs or not because I had never done any of it. And then I tried some of those things and realized they weren't really that big of a deal and no one was immoral or a "bad" person for trying them. Maybe I should suggest a threesome to actually get over my fear of them? And see how they're not that big of a deal?

 

Sorry for being so obsessive.

[InLimbo2]

Personally, I don't think he was all that head over heels over either of the girls in the 3some - and their not in his life now - YOU are. You've been with some men in your past - I'm sure you felt that was pretty serious - but now you know they weren't 'the one'. Something to think about.

 

Do NOT ask for details - then you'll have those images in your head. In all reality it more than likely WAS a great time sexually and you aren't going to hear it was a let down or overrated. even if the actual sex wasn't all that fantastic - the taboo and novelty would have made it super hot more than likely.

 

You don't want to do a 3some - why would you even suggest it? Other than to test him...dangerous games.

 

Asking him if he wants a 3some with you is what I call a 'trick chick question' - no matter his response, it's wrong.

 

You are making things either/or. Take the no strings sex vs sex with emotion.

This man can have no strings sex.

This man can have sex with emotion.

The difference is who he's with. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

You keep bringing up how he's told you that you're the best he's ever had in bed. Very possibly true - because there's a connection there with you that wasn't with someone else - esp not the 3some. Stop feeling insecure and 'competing' with that memory re sexual prowess - it's apples and oranges - and he IS with you not and not them.

 

You judged people in the past because you had limited life experience vs theirs - drinking, drugs, losing virginity. It's all part of growing up, maturing - your POV changes as you experience life. Frankly, I was married to a drunk/drug addict for 15 years - I'd rather have a man with who took up an offer of a 3some than someone who had a drinking or drug problem.

 

Just my .02 cents

 

I guess my fear is irrational but if he could share his previous girlfriend with another girl/guy in bed then it really makes me wonder if he could do the same with me. And if so, then we have a different definition of cheating, relationships, etc. I care about him and even if it makes me a prude or less sexually adventurous or whatever, I could never watch him while he penetrated a girl or be okay with another guy touching me or penetrating me in front of him because I care about him and want to be intimate with no one but him. I don't even think I could have a threesome when I'm single, why would I be okay with it when I'm in a serious relationship? I know a lot of swingers talk about seperating emotions and physical intimacy but to me they go hand in hand. If he views them as seperate, I'm not saying he is wrong but I guess I feel like we may potentially be incompatible.

 

AAlike --

 

Sorry about yesterday, there was a lightening storm so I had to turn on my computer but I will definitely be on tonight. I hope we can chat then.

 

Everyone else --

 

Currently my debate is: is this really a big deal where I am settling despite my views or is it not a big deal and I am doing the right thing by trying not to have it be a concern? I wish people would stop just sayings "get over it", it's not that easy. One thing I have noticed though is whenever we talk on the phone (it has been long distance since May since I am home from school), and he makes jokes or acts silly or is really caring, all my fears dissolve and I know he's still such a sweet and yes, to some degree, an innocent and awkward guy lol. But when we go longer periods without talking and I think about it too much, he turns into this giant lustful player in my mind that has lax views on sexuality, etc etc. So I don't know if it is what he actually is v.s. who I thought he was or who he is v.s. what I make him out to be in my mind. If it is the former than it makes me want to dump him, if it is the latter than I am ashamed of how I am behaving.

 

Is it a legitimate question to ask if he would ever consider having a threesome with me or would that open an unnecessary can of worms up? He already said he would never expect one or ask me for one but that's not saying he doesn't "want" one.

 

And he always tell me I am by far, the best he has ever had in bed because in the past, it just didn't feel fulfilling etc. It makes me want to ask questions specifically about the threesome which I haven't. Like who it was with, what they did, when, if he enjoyed it, etc. I keep having this mental image of him having sex with his girlfriend while she is blowing another guy and then two really hot porn stars blowing him at the same time and it crushes me so much. He doesn't seem like "that kind of" guy at all. Maybe having the specifics would calm me down if he told me it is much better in fantasy than reality? Or if it wasn't that great and is overrated?

 

Part of me feels like I judged guys in the past based on if they were a virgin or not, drank or not, tried drugs or not because I had never done any of it. And then I tried some of those things and realized they weren't really that big of a deal and no one was immoral or a "bad" person for trying them. Maybe I should suggest a threesome to actually get over my fear of them? And see how they're not that big of a deal?

 

Sorry for being so obsessive.

[AAlike]

Great post Limbo - some comments:

 

Personally, I don't think he was all that head over heels over either of the girls in the 3some - and their not in his life now - YOU are. You've been with some men in your past - I'm sure you felt that was pretty serious - but now you know they weren't 'the one'. Something to think about.

 

Correct. Although there are certainly the occassional stories of people marrying their high school sweethearts and living happily ever after, most people's love lives are a trial and error process, and sexuality and sexual experiences will intertwine in there in different capacities depending on the person. If you've found an ideal mate, then you've somehow arrived at the same place, and if the relationship works, then why agonize over how you both got there?

 

I mean, we are talking about his "second girlfriend" here, so it's pretty obvious that, as Limbo said, that he didn't have the feelings for anyone involved in these trysts that he does you. Honestly, I don't think that most people have the capability to really love during their teenage/college years...in most cases our hormones develop well before our emotions. some act on them, some don't. if anything, this developmental order would suggest that we are predisposed to sexual experimentation (I don't think that we necessarily are...I'm just sayin').

 

Do NOT ask for details - then you'll have those images in your head. In all reality it more than likely WAS a great time sexually and you aren't going to hear it was a let down or overrated. even if the actual sex wasn't all that fantastic - the taboo and novelty would have made it super hot more than likely.

 

Well, I don't know that I totally agree with this. Discussing it with my girlfriend helped me a great deal. However, you have to be careful with how you approach the discussion. I agree that getting "details" or asking if it was good does not serve a purpose, just as it wouldn't serve a purpose to ask about details or quality of any previous "traditional" sexual experience. Of course it was probably fun - it's sex. but it was also most likely finite.

 

However, I know where she is right now. Because she has probably never emotionally conceptualized a threesome like this, currently her brain is fixating on the only frames of reference that she has for them...which are probably comprised of porno, slang terms from urban dictionary, and our culture of "taboo" - none of which even come close to approximating how sex really plays out. So she's giving it added emphasis that probably only exists in her mind.

 

and honestly, most threesome stories that i've heard haven't been overly fulfilling OR disappointing. generally just weird. i'm thinking that some reassurance from her BF that the experience itself is probably something that was really not distinctive and that he's truly over is probably not a bad thing. and if he's not truly over it, then he's not ready for their relationship. however, everything that he said would seem to imply that he is.

 

You don't want to do a 3some - why would you even suggest it? Other than to test him...dangerous games.

 

Asking him if he wants a 3some with you is what I call a 'trick chick question' - no matter his response, it's wrong.

 

yeah, there's no reason to even suggest this. i'm sure that both you and he know at this point that you're not a threesome person, and would never have even entertained the notion under any other circumstances, so obviously it's not going to work and will probably only serve to screw things up. I understand your motivation - you want to debunk the myth that threesomes are some monumental experience...but you're not going to be able to do that because you're going to go into it with it already sensationalized.

 

You are making things either/or. Take the no strings sex vs sex with emotion.

This man can have no strings sex.

This man can have sex with emotion.

The difference is who he's with. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

that is a great way of putting it. and that's precisely why he's not going to apologize or tell you that he regrets anything - he probably considers it so unimportant at this juncture that any apology would just be buying into your notion that it should be considered a big deal, if that makes sense.

 

You judged people in the past because you had limited life experience vs theirs - drinking, drugs, losing virginity. It's all part of growing up, maturing - your POV changes as you experience life. Frankly, I was married to a drunk/drug addict for 15 years - I'd rather have a man with who took up an offer of a 3some than someone who had a drinking or drug problem.

 

Just my .02 cents

 

amen to that. with all of the things that can potentially go wrong in a relationship these days, it would be a shame to see a good one go to waste over a decision that was made before the relationship was even conceptualized.

[bazcam]

Wittygirl09, he doesn't owe you an explanation or an apology. He doesn't need to feel ashamed of this because it was a no strings attached fantasy that many men would be happy to achieve. His behaviour from before your relationship is not accountable to you. If he suggests a threesome with you then you would be justified in dumping him right there because he knows that is incompatible with your conservative sexuality, but what he did before is nothing to do with you and you need to stop nagging him about it. No matter what he tells you, you aren't going to feel better. AS others have said, there is no magic phrase, you need to look to yourself to fix this, not him. Badgering him about this is unfair to him.

[AAlike]

Wittygirl09, he doesn't owe you an explanation or an apology. He doesn't need to feel ashamed of this because it was a no strings attached fantasy that many men would be happy to achieve. His behaviour from before your relationship is not accountable to you. If he suggests a threesome with you then you would be justified in dumping him right there because he knows that is incompatible with your conservative sexuality, but what he did before is nothing to do with you and you need to stop nagging him about it. No matter what he tells you, you aren't going to feel better. AS others have said, there is no magic phrase, you need to look to yourself to fix this, not him. Badgering him about this is unfair to him.

 

correct - but in her defense, I know that she's not doing it to attack him. Right now her perception of him is in complete disarray - she's got "oh wow, the perfect guy" and "OMG the guy that had threesomes!!" - and it's throwing her rationality out of whack, so AT FIRST, that's why she wants to hear that he regrets it, or pleads temporary insanity or whatever...because it's a lot easier than facing the reality that "the perfect guy" made a conscious decision to try threesomes. However, accepting someone's past only because they regret it isn't really ACCEPTING it at all.

 

The reality is that "the perfect guy" and "the threesome guy" are both creations or her emotions and neither really exist. eventually, over time, as the myth of "the perfect guy" starts to erode away, so will the myth of "the threesome guy" and you'll be left with an actual human, flaws and all. but until it happens, it's tough because you're being guided by emotions, which your logic and reasoning can't fix - so it makes you feel helpless and panic.

[wittygirl09]

AAlike ---

 

Correct again. It's hard to verbalize but I view him as the perfect guy with a "mistake" or "blemish" in his past and I am trying to find excuses as to why the "perfect guy" would have done that in the past without questioning it, being uncomfortable with it, etc. I guess if he told me he regrets it or was against it but went along with it due to pressure etc, it would align with his present/current personality or what I view him as right now. Then it would make sense to me. Because right now he is the "perfect guy" but his past makes me view him as "the threesome guy."

 

To be completely honest, I always thought I was open-minded and not judgmental and wasn't against the concept of threesomes as long as everyone consented etc. I just never met anyone in real life that had ever done one. It was something done in porn or every guy's fantasy. But done in reality? "No one does that!" I guess in my mind, and I'm sorry for stereotyping but I'm just being honest, "only freaks did that" or "players." So to hear of someone doing one in actuality was a huge deal to me and the fact that it is someone I am dating and someone I had an idealized image of is that much more of a shocker. AND IT HURTS. It doesn't hurt for any logical, justified or rational reason. But it hurts. I have never once told him "you are an ass, whore, easy, a player, freak for doing this." Usually my response has either been "WHY did you do this?" "What made you do this?" (To understand it on a human level and not just view it as a disgusted action.) or "I am not comfortable with it but I am not attacking you."

 

Also an update on the situation, we have not discussed the threesome thing since I brought it up a few weeks ago (reference in the first post) but surprisingly yesterday night we were talking about fantasies. I told him my friend and I were discussing fantasies and he asked me what I told her mine were. I shared one, it wasn't really racey or anything out of the ordinary honestly (think more Victoria's Secret and less porn lol) but asked how come he never wanted to try or had any with me. In the past he has said things like "you are my fantasy, you are so hot" or "you are my fantasy, we have sex like they do in porn and I thought no one ever got that in person." but yesterday he said "well you know, maybe because two of my fantasies have already been fulfilled."

 

He didn't say what they were exactly but I guess he was referring to the threesomes (MMF and MFF) and that hurt. I wanted to ask "which ones?" but I didn't know if the fulfilled fantasies were the two different types of threesomes, the threesomes as one and something he did in the past with someone else as another or if he was referencing me. I have a feeling it was the first one. I just changed the subject. I am usually so logical, understanding, rational. I am never the jealous, insecure or emotional one in the relationship. Why is all this driving me nuts?

[imagine]

 

However, about a month ago, I confronted him and admitted that I was losing sleep over this and that his past really bothered me. Usually he is very understanding and listens and doesn't attack me but he got very aggressive on the phone and got mad because he said I was using his past against him and that if it bothers me that much, I should just dump him.

 

He says I am the best looking girl, both in looks and body, that he has ever dated and he also says that I am the "best he has ever had" in bed. He also says he likes being with me because I "actually listen", he thinks his family will like me and that he got everything he looks for in a girl (looks, intellect, personality, etc.)

 

I'm going to try again...

 

In the second paragraph he says: "You are a great F**k"

 

But the first paragraph says to you "If you don't like my past...Bugger off"

But wait.. there's more.. He turns your concerns into controlling behaviour...And, and, and... He allows you the option of being the bad guy breaking off.

 

My word! He does seem to have quite a bit invested in the relationship to be able risk this doesn't he?

 

My thought is that he seems to have the lions share in the balance of power in this relationship. I think that he knows that you will cave.

 

And you have...

 

Why! At the beginning of this post you shared your strength in moral convictions. At the last posting you have actually toyed with the idea of committing the very act that you most abhor. Did discussion suddenly anesthetize your standpoint.

 

Supposing you marry him: He has not deceived you about his background. You cannot say that he misrepresented himself should he find the occasional lay in the hay when the marriage gets a little rocky. Why then, maybe it would be your fault because you were a bit insecure and "too controlling".

 

Girl, he bagged your c*** with his shy guy style. He may even desire to marry you...

 

But before you do, and you probably will agree to marry him, consider this ...

He has NOT been faithful to his ex gf. Nor to his apparent religion. Nor treated your concerns with any respect.

 

You be the judge!

[wittygirl09]

I think the guy is not being completely honest about his last gf, though. She was abusive so he had to stay. She was abusive so....he wants to have a threesome with her? Ummm, ok.

 

No, he had an abusive girlfriend, we'll call her Ana. He felt he couldn't get out of the relationship, so he got a second girlfriend, we'll call her Mary. Mary suggested two threesomes to him so he had them with Mary, not the abusive girlfriend that was Ana. Sorry for the confusion.

[AAlike]

Correct again. It's hard to verbalize but I view him as the perfect guy with a "mistake" or "blemish" in his past and I am trying to find excuses as to why the "perfect guy" would have done that in the past without questioning it, being uncomfortable with it, etc. I guess if he told me he regrets it or was against it but went along with it due to pressure etc, it would align with his present/current personality or what I view him as right now. Then it would make sense to me. Because right now he is the "perfect guy" but his past makes me view him as "the threesome guy."

 

exactly. he could lie and tell you that he was pressured into it or drunk to make you feel better about it - but that sets a bad precedent for the future of your relationship. Also, realize that he probably has no idea what's going on in your head - all he's probably thinking is "she just won't let this go - I get it that she disapproves but why can't she just forgive me and move on." I mean obviously if you put any decision under the amount of scrutiny that you've given it then it can seem "stupid" or wrong, even to the person that made the decision at the time. really, the impetus behind his decision may be nothing more than "I am NOT vehemently opposed to participating in a threesome, so why not?"

 

To be completely honest, I always thought I was open-minded and not judgmental and wasn't against the concept of threesomes as long as everyone consented etc. I just never met anyone in real life that had ever done one.

 

and you still are open-minded. Let's put it this way - if anyone OTHER than your boyfriend had told you about a threesome, would you have condemned the act? Would it have somewhat altered your perception of them? I am assuming no - if that is the case, then let's be clear - this is NOT a moral issue. If you considered threesomes AS A WHOLE to be innately immoral (as some people definitely do) then it would be a moral issue. This is purely an emotional issue...and I think the fact that you cannot get your hands around WHY it's causing you to act this way, it's making you question your own values.

 

It was something done in porn or every guy's fantasy. But done in reality? "No one does that!" I guess in my mind, and I'm sorry for stereotyping but I'm just being honest, "only freaks did that" or "players." So to hear of someone doing one in actuality was a huge deal to me and the fact that it is someone I am dating and someone I had an idealized image of is that much more of a shocker. AND IT HURTS.

 

I actually knew plenty of people that HAD done it in college - hell I knew a girl that hosted semi-regular orgies, but I still reverted to "oh my god no one does that" stage because by and large I was so unconcerned with those people's sex lives and had never given it any REALLY serious thought. heck yeah it hurts.

 

It doesn't hurt for any logical, justified or rational reason. But it hurts. I have never once told him "you are an ass, whore, easy, a player, freak for doing this." Usually my response has either been "WHY did you do this?" "What made you do this?" (To understand it on a human level and not just view it as a disgusted action.) or "I am not comfortable with it but I am not attacking you."

 

right - I always made sure not to yell at or berate my girlfriend - but the "I'm disappointed in you" tone really wasn't any better. again, since she didn't realize what was going on in my head, it just came of as constant judgement to her.

 

Also an update on the situation, we have not discussed the threesome thing since I brought it up a few weeks ago (reference in the first post) but surprisingly yesterday night we were talking about fantasies. I told him my friend and I were discussing fantasies and he asked me what I told her mine were. I shared one, it wasn't really racey or anything out of the ordinary honestly (think more Victoria's Secret and less porn lol) but asked how come he never wanted to try or had any with me. In the past he has said things like "you are my fantasy, you are so hot" or "you are my fantasy, we have sex like they do in porn and I thought no one ever got that in person." but yesterday he said "well you know, maybe because two of my fantasies have already been fulfilled."

 

ugh - that was dumb of him to say...but are you SURE that's what he meant?

 

He didn't say what they were exactly but I guess he was referring to the threesomes (MMF and MFF) and that hurt. I wanted to ask "which ones?" but I didn't know if the fulfilled fantasies were the two different types of threesomes, the threesomes as one and something he did in the past with someone else as another or if he was referencing me. I have a feeling it was the first one. I just changed the subject. I am usually so logical, understanding, rational. I am never the jealous, insecure or emotional one in the relationship. Why is all this driving me nuts?

 

yep - I am also a VERY "logic over emotion" type of person...which makes it all that much tougher for a scientific-mind type to handle. I'm used to being able to justify every thought in my head - I thought that I was literally losing my sanity over this.

[AAlike]

 

Why! At the beginning of this post you shared your strength in moral convictions. At the last posting you have actually toyed with the idea of committing the very act that you most abhor. Did discussion suddenly anesthetize your standpoint.

 

 

See I think the fact that she's "toyed with the idea" is indicative of the fact that she is not really morally opposed to it. She didn't "abhor" the act until she was forced to deal with it emotionally - that's very different than morally. I really think since she cannot explain her feelings to herself right now she's telling herself "I must have some morals that I didn't realize that I had - I thought I was open-minded but I guess maybe I'm not" etc. etc....the reality is that the girl's in love and for the first time she's not in control of her heart and brain!

 

I think that the reason that she is toying with the idea is not to appease her boyfriend or do some huge 180 on her stance - she's thinking "maybe if I had a similar experience it'd make this craziness go away and I'll be able to dismiss it just like he has". but it's not gonna work that way, unfortunately.

[norajane]

No, he had an abusive girlfriend, we'll call her Ana. He felt he couldn't get out of the relationship, so he got a second girlfriend, we'll call her Mary. Mary suggested two threesomes to him so he had them with Mary, not the abusive girlfriend that was Ana. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Why are you so disgusted or jealous about the threesome, and don't seem to be at all focused on his cheating?

 

Calling Mary a 'second girlfriend' implies you are ok with him cheating on Ana, and, in fact, don't even see it as cheating, really.

 

I mean, if your issue is morality, then I think the cheating behind someone's back is more morally heinous than consensual sex in a threesome.

 

If the issue is retroactive jealousy, then I can see why you are focused on the threesomes instead.

[imagine]

Yeah

 

I'm going to hop on the bandwagon as well. Was she the other woman in the "Fatal attraction" movie.

 

I don't seriously expect you to ask your bf about this woman. At the same time I can't but help wonder if his account of this lady is a little "coloured" from his POV.

[AAlike]

Why are you so disgusted or jealous about the threesome, and don't seem to be at all focused on his cheating?

 

Calling Mary a 'second girlfriend' implies you are ok with him cheating on Ana, and, in fact, don't even see it as cheating, really.

 

I mean, if your issue is morality, then I think the cheating behind someone's back is more morally heinous than consensual sex in a threesome.

 

If the issue is retroactive jealousy, then I can see why you are focused on the threesomes instead.

 

very very good point norajane. I have only been focusing on the RJ issue because that is clearly what is affecting her.

 

that's the really odd thing about this - it's probably a lot easier to evaluate the cheating and decide whether she should forgive it or not because cheating is universally "bad" and is something that involves the conscious hurting of someone else. she's probably made the decision that the cheating in this case is a forgivable offense due to the nature of his relationship with the abusive girl. whether that is a right or wrong decision is up to her - but it is at least a clear-cut one...and she was probably able to make the decision on it before it started to weigh on her emotions.

 

But with the threesomes, there is nothing set in stone that defines if they are "good" or "bad" - and she probably didn't have a positive or negative connotation towards them before this issue, she probably only knew that she personally wasn't intrigued by them and wouldn't feel comfortable participating in one. that's what makes this so tough - it's not really a "decision" at all...it's hit her emotionally and now she's got to deal with it in the way that you deal with emotions, not decisions...and unfortuantely for her some emotional things only go away with time.

 

it seems really crazy doesn't it - especially considering for her BF, the one that ACTUALLY took part in both the dual girlfriend and dual partner situations, it was probably the exact opposite - I bet the cheating and the circumstances with the two women probably affected him emotionally and the threesomes probably not so much. but emotions are weird and are triggered very differently in different people.

 

Here's some food for thought that might help you rationalize things wittygirl...you wonder if part of the reason that the threesome might have intrigued him at the time was that it gave him an opportunity to assert his "manliness" to himself...aka the "bragging rights" that he talked about. I mean, here's a guy that, according to OP, was relatively timid and inexperienced with women and seemed reserved in general, and on top of that he was in a relationship in which he was being treated abusively by a woman - in our culture that doesn't exactly make you Hulk Hogan. I mean, obviously this sounds kind of stupid but the impetus for a lot of college-age decisions is stupid, no?

 

PS - witty - can't talk tonight, call me this weekend.