Why "The Past Is The Past"?

[dphoenix1701]

This is, of course, my first post to this forum. It has been almost twelve hours since my emotion ordeal began, so I am admittedly not in the best of places at the moment. What originally brought me here was that last eight hours of soul-searching, and introspection. My attempts to try to reconcile the recent circumstances in my relationship, and find some way to move beyond them led me to many threads that mirrored my own, and others that were remotely similar. Throughout them all I saw a common response that both intrigued and troubled me. While my intent in registering this morning was to address my initial dilemma, I found I was more interested in addressing this new issue first.

 

I pose this question to those who would offer this advice; why “the past is the past”. Please bear with me for a moment as I try to explain. My own situation, which I will address directly in another post, basically involves learning things about my GF’s past that bothered me. What they were and why they bother me I respectfully ask to leave for that specific post. Still, in post after post that related to my scenario, invariably someone will offer this nugget; I found this both odd and slightly inappropriate considering that the issue at hand is that the person wants the past to be just that, but can not do so. They want to put things back to the way they were before this new/altered information. This thinking is then rationalized by certain customary quotes: this past contributed to making the person you fell in love with; this was something before you came along; and the overly curt, get over it.

 

When someone meets a person and gets to know them they form a view, a picture of this person, based on the facts of that person. By and large this is mostly based on the related past of that person. Over time they begin to learn new and more current things about the person, but these things don’t overwrite the things they knew, they are appended to it. So how can it be expected that someone ignore a person’s past for who they see today when that view is influenced by that past, and that past is now fundamentally changed. Wouldn’t people’s perception of a school teacher injured in a fire change if they subsequently learned the person was an arsonist? If time is the factor, where do we draw the line, is it ok consider a past less than a year old, but not one five?

 

Actions that occurred before we came along don’t automatically make them less real or impacting on events now. In simplest terms, these acts proved to be the land mine set months or years ago that only now exploded. In other terms, they still represent a response or set of actions that one could conceivably anticipate. Some have argued that past actions are no indication of future responses, and yet we have a society built on just this line of thinking. Credit scores use past payment history to predict future payment patterns. Workplace evaluations use past performance to predict future productivity (and employee worth) for raises. And SAT’s and GPA’s are used to predict future contributions to collegiate prestige from past academic work. Using past behavior to assess future risks is not a guarantee any set of circumstances, but it is a reasonably close method of doing so. Why does this behavior seem unacceptable when applied to relationships?

 

Now, it isn’t that I don’t find truth in the adage in certain circumstances. What I fail to understand is why offer a piece of advice when the solution consists of the problem? Let the past be the past, keep the past in the past. This seems equivalent to “I don’t know how to tie my shoe”, met with “You should learn how to tie your shoe.” I don’t see how this could be helping to tell someone whose issue is a redefinition of the past.

 

I hope that those who choose to reply can accept that I seek an answer to this question not be provocative, but because I truly found myself trying to understand why. I go home from work in a few hours no closer to any sense of peace or idea of where I want my relationship to go than when I got here. I will leave this post with this question while I now try to tackle the problem itself on another. Thank you all in advance to those who reply.

[cutegirl]

I DEFINITELY believe that the past is definitely indicative of future behavior (like your example with the credit reports). Someone's past actions give a good glimpse into someone's character and morals etc.

 

I don't believe in "letting the past just be the past". A person's past is a good indicator of how they will act in the future (for example, once a cheater always a cheater) and I WILL hold it against a man if he has had what I consider excessive amount of sex partners, banged hookers frequently (is a whore monger), engaged in group sex etc.

 

All these things reveal a person's character, it shows the type of activities they find exciting, and what they might need in the future in order to satiate their sexual desires, it shows their true character and who they really are.

 

I think a good way of really getting to know someone is to actually dig into their past for the facts. People never are upfront about themselves and will hide their bad sides when meeting someone new, but the facts speak for themselves.

[Walk]

When someone meets a person and gets to know them they form a view, a picture of this person, based on the facts of that person. By and large this is mostly based on the related past of that person. Over time they begin to learn new and more current things about the person, but these things don’t overwrite the things they knew, they are appended to it.

 

Actions that occurred before we came along don’t automatically make them less real or impacting on events now. In simplest terms, these acts proved to be the land mine set months or years ago that only now exploded. In other terms, they still represent a response or set of actions that one could conceivably anticipate. Some have argued that past actions are no indication of future responses, and yet we have a society built on just this line of thinking. Credit scores use past payment history to predict future payment patterns. Workplace evaluations use past performance to predict future productivity (and employee worth) for raises. And SAT’s and GPA’s are used to predict future contributions to collegiate prestige from past academic work. Using past behavior to assess future risks is not a guarantee any set of circumstances, but it is a reasonably close method of doing so. Why does this behavior seem unacceptable when applied to relationships?

 

Your post would be very logical if you assume that the woman in question was displaying unethical or deviant behaviors. You used a fire as an example and learning the arsonist is your friend.

 

In the case of learning your partner has displayed unethical behaviors in the past, then yes... it could be an indicator of future behavior. For example, if your partner reveals that she (or he) cheated in the past, then it could be an indication of how she (or he) may behave in your relationship. It is cause for concern.

 

However, a great deal of the retroactive jealousy posts I've read deal with normal human behavior. The ONLY issue at play is how that behavior wasn't reserved solely for the man suffering from retroactive jealousy. A great deal of the time, a double standard exists where it is acceptable for the man to have had sex with numerous partners, yet not for the woman. Usually these types of posts are created by younger men (teens to 20s).

 

To give an analogy, that would be like saying you've seen a school fire and when your gf states she's seen one too, you would then feel jealous over her experience. It isn't an indicator of potential unethical behavior in the future. Her behavior is (usually) normal and relatively well adjusted.

 

The feelings of jealousy for her past is a reaction to a percieved threat. When its normal jealous then the percieved threat can be general identified by a majority of people (i.e. your gf flirting with a great looking guy). There's logic to why it would create jealousy. Normal jealousy has its basis in a real threat to the relationship; delusional jealousy persists despite the absence of any real or even probable threat.

 

For instance, jealousy over a gf's previous one night stands. She stopped having them after she met her bf, and has never implied she wishes to continue them in any way. She's been tested for STDs on different occasions and each time has a clean bill of health. There is no real threat to the relationship with this, yet men will continue to feel extremely strong feelings of jealousy over a past like this. At this point, the only threat that could exist is to the man (not the relationship). He may fear being abandoned, humiliated, or a loss of self-esteem. His fear isn't grounded on predicting her future actions, and its not grounded in reality.

 

The core of our jealousy is usually based in ungrounded expectations of a partner, projections of insecurities, envy of others, loss of self-esteem, childhood fears and insecurities. These jealousy's are not grounded in rational, logical thoughts and fears. The problem isn't something someone can give you the magic key for. Each person suffering from this would have to discover what fear is being trigger the most by the past actions. Once you know what fears are being triggered (i.e. fear of abandonment) then you can work on removing the illogical thought processes that pushed you to blame it on your partners past.

 

In essence, the problem usually isn't the partners past. Unless you're stating that your gf liked to have sex with small children, or cheated on her past partners, or sets fire to elementary schools, or something equally unethical... then the feelings of jealousy are solely your problem and you would have to do the work to break down the illogical thought processes that are creating that jealousy. A forum won't be able to do it for you. You're shifting the blame for not solving your problems onto us now, instead of seating it on your own shoulders.

[imagine]

Stats are an interesting study.

 

Empirical stats show that the odds of marriage failure increase with each successive marriage. These stats do not show the exceptions to the rule.

 

Your lady friend has divorce experience and has learned how to escape from marriage/relationship trials rather than cure problems. Your other post reveals trust issues. You have to sort these out first.

 

I regularly recommend folk to read the articles at the marriage builder website.

 

Do it!

 

Also... try to stick to one thread. We posters tend to lose track of an individuals case history otherwise.

[Stockalone]

In essence, the problem usually isn't the partners past. Unless you're stating that your gf liked to have sex with small children, or cheated on her past partners, or sets fire to elementary schools, or something equally unethical... then the feelings of jealousy are solely your problem and you would have to do the work to break down the illogical thought processes that are creating that jealousy. A forum won't be able to do it for you. You're shifting the blame for not solving your problems onto us now, instead of seating it on your own shoulders.

 

Well, it isn't always about (retroactive) jealousy. I have rejected/judged people based on their past, but I was never afflicted with retroactive jealousy.

 

If there is something in a person's past that I consider to be morally reprehensible, I will not hesitate to end a relationship because of that.

[Alma Mobley]

Test and credit scores are not remotely comparable to a human being's emotional existence. That's just a silly comparison. Would you really judge a person based on a credit score, despite what they have done and accomplished and lived through? Are you an uncaring, disinterested company that boils human beings down to a digit, a "score"? No? I didn't think so.

 

I can't give you much advice based on no details, but maybe you should simply think about the above, and ruminate on what is really important to you. If it's values, sure, there's a problem; if it's something else? Think about it.

 

Good luck!

[dphoenix1701]

As stated before, I truly appreciate all of the responses to this question.

A few questions and inferences were made that I hope I can answer or clarify. I hope these are not taken as rebuttals; I still wish to remain a part of this forum, and do not want to rile anyone's feathers while I am seeking insight to work out my issues.

 

In reverse order:

 

Alma

I use the issue of credit score and such to highlight the fact that these are trivial issues that ARE given such importance as to consider a person’s past. I didn't mean for this to be an apples-to-apples comparison of relationships and credit scores, but a scale to question why we accept risk-assessment for less important aspects of our lives but find it repugnant to do so for something that we essential intend to be lifelong. I feel it is a valid point, but do apologize if the analogy was offensive.

 

Imagine

No disagreement with your post in general. As for the separate posts, I really wanted this question answered outside the context of my current situation. I did this, in part, because it is an often use suggestion/adage that I have heard in life. On this board, I ran across so frequently as the only response of some posters, I began to wonder why this should be considered a balm if I were to be given the same advice. The only way I could think to explore this was to raise the issue apart from the problem.

 

Walk

I hope my response above also explains the vagueness of my post for you. I can now say that the issue was past infidelity, not retroactive jealousy.

 

Thank you all, again, for your sincere responses. I am still working through some things, but a breakthrough was made in the interim. If you are interested in the resolution, please see my “Story” post. For now I consider this question closed.

[Lovelybird]

Ok, can I ask you a question? You never did wrong thing in past relationships? if you did, did you learn from it? If you learned it and changed, do you want others to paint you as same old you? I don't think you would like this

 

People has vast potential to change to evolve to grow maturely. I believe 'past is past', I think "what kind of person he/she is now, and where he/she is going (what is his/her moral goals in life)" is much important than the past. If she cheated in the past, did she remorse for her action? I believe a person can totally change if God involves

 

If you focus on her past, you are wasting your energy and it is non-productive. cannot you tell her charactor? seems you don't know her that well? don't know her inner thoughts that well, that's where imagination go wild

[Trialbyfire]

Lovelybird, it's not as simple as a quick change. She cheated on her ex-H with his best friend.

[Lovelybird]

Lovelybird, it's not as simple as a quick change. She cheated on her ex-H with his best friend.

I see.

 

I've heard a man cheated on his wife with her best friend. and he was intented to suicide because of that. when he was a child, he was abused by a man. so he had many hurt and issues in his life, his hurt caused his wife's hurt. But he overcomed those issues with help of God. It is tough journey for him. He could change, because he knew that was wrong, he could change because he embraced love of God, much different from cheap validation from OW and hunger for anyone could fill the emptiness in him. he is the author of book The shack

 

If she changed, then OP has to practice faith, faith in God, faith in her ability to change, faith in good part in her

[Trialbyfire]

I see.

 

I've heard a man cheated on his wife with her best friend. and he was intented to suicide because of that. when he was a child, he was abused by a man. so he had many hurt and issues in his life, his hurt caused his wife's hurt. But he overcomed those issues with help of God. It is tough journey for him. He could change, because he knew that was wrong, he could change because he embraced love of God, much different from cheap validation from OW and hunger for anyone could fill the emptiness in him. he is the author of book The shack

 

If she changed, then OP has to practice faith, faith in God, faith in her ability to change, faith in good part in her

I don't recall any reference to her embracing anything besides the ex-Hs best friend in either thread but maybe the OP can confirm or deny that.

 

As far as I'm concerned, to have withheld this information until he was invested, is indicative of a selfish personality which if you think about it, most cheaters have.

[dphoenix1701]

Trial, you're pretty much on the mark. What I was left with was that she didn't so much change as move on unscathed. My lengthy addendum to the "Story" post touched on this aspect of my problem. And yes, the way I was left to discover this information caused it to sting much worse than if she had sat me done and prepared me. It didn't need to be a confessional, but, as I told her, if she'd even considered doing so to pre-empt a friend who may have slipped on this event down the line, I wouldn't have felt so misled.

We are now attempting to rebuild the trust in our relationship, and I am cautious but accepting of her desire to make this work. Faith is required on my part if we are to do so, and she accepts that this trust is unconditional but fragile.

[Walk]

And yes, the way I was left to discover this information caused it to sting much worse than if she had sat me done and prepared me. It didn't need to be a confessional, but, as I told her, if she'd even considered doing so to pre-empt a friend who may have slipped on this event down the line, I wouldn't have felt so misled.

We are now attempting to rebuild the trust in our relationship, and I am cautious but accepting of her desire to make this work. Faith is required on my part if we are to do so, and she accepts that this trust is unconditional but fragile.

 

First, sorry for going off about retroactive jealousy. That's the content of all the threads I've read on here quoting "the past is the past". I assumed, wrongly, that most people pushing that were not referring to partners who cheated and then down played it (lied about it).

 

Second, I agree with TBF's assesment of your gf. Although she seems like a nice person, I think the way she misled you is cause for concern. And in that case, I would not advice accepting the "past is the past" statement. It is relevant because her actions bleed over into your current relationship. She decieved you in the same way she decieved her husband. The lie continued.

 

When I first started dating my current H, I informed him that i had cheated on my exH. I felt it was dishonest to imply I was something I was not. I think that created trust in him that I wouldn't repeat that behavior in the future. If I'd lied, mislead, etc... then any trust he felt would've been built on a false foundation. And eventually would've crumbled... like yours did.

[XDOR]

Phoenix, I agree with you.

The past is the future, unfortunately.

 

Here is a personal example, something that happened to me:

 

I had a "girlfriend" (I never actually admited the term) who would tell me many things about her past, and it was a concern to me that she started having sex with a boyfriend before finishing a previous relation.

I asked to myself, has she done the same to ME?

 

(BTW she was also a lier when she didn't want to accept something, she used to tell me that she had sex for the first time with her husband - she was diivorced - when I actually knew someone who had sex with her before. Poor husband, maybe he never knew the truth).

 

Anyway, one day she tells me that, since I didn't label her as a formal girlfriend, a couple (friend of hers) was going to introduce her a guy. And I say "It's OK with me". They went to have dinner etc.

2 days later, I called her close to midnight and she didn't answer the phone. The next day I asked her and she replies that she is sorry, but she fell asleep on the sofa and that was the reason. I suspected something, why would she invent something like the sofa if she could just say she fell asleep???

Then she admitted she, the guy and the couple went dinner again... I didn't like it but said nothing...

 

But 2 more days passed, and after she stayed in my place with me, she asked me how was my heart, if I consider her my girlfriend, I said "I feel the same". She then tells me "because I told my friends I went out again with T and... I interrupted, I told her our relation was over, because she has told me that the 4 of them went out together... This was the end of the relation.

 

Thank God I got rid of this girl...

 

A few months later we started having phone conversations and she told me how happy she was with T, who by then was her boyfriend, and that she was deeply in love and planning on living together.

So I had an idea, I started (by phone and by MSN) telling her that we never had a farewell, our relation was finished suddenly etc.... Well, to make it short, I convinced her and we had sex again. Still, she said T was her love of her life!!!

 

She had done it again, overlapping her relations, having sex with somebody (in this case me) while having a boyfriend. This was my revenge, and it proved the past is always repeated.

A couple of weeks later she started having problems with her boyfriend and they broke...