Friend is going to marry the wrong guy!

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

My younger friend (19) is getting married in about a week, and I know (and everyone close to her knows as well) that it's a terrible mistake. Nobody knows what to do.

 

I don't even know where to start. They got engaged after only knowing each other 8 or 9 months (he asked her on her 18th birthday, as her birthday present); this is her first real relationship, so she basically has no experience. He, on the other hand, is 23 and has asked other girlfriend(s) to marry him before her (the other girl(s) ended it eventually). It's pretty obvious that the guy just wants to trap in every girl he's with to staying with him "forever", and unfortunately it looks like he may succeed this time. Whenever things got rough between them, he would threaten to commit suicide as a guilt trip, and she's so inexperienced that she doesn't realize this is unhealthy and abnormal for a 23-year-old.

 

My friend used to have a totally hot body, but this guy is overweight and since she met him, she's stopped taking care of herself too (because he does the same) and is starting to become overweight as well. And I know, love is blind, but she's really unhappy with herself for gaining all this weight, and doesn't see the correlation at all.

 

Nobody--not friends nor family--is supportive of her decision, but when we try to offer her insight, she gets angry and completely shuts us out. She and I just recently got to the point of talking normally again after I advised her a little while ago that as an 18/19 year old, she would be going through a lot of personal changes, and in a few years this may not seem like a good idea (she didn't like that at all). It's gotten to the point where she's said we aren't allowed to voice our opinions about them, even though it's obvious to everyone that this relationship is destructive.

 

At this point, it's obvious she's flustered about the wedding. She's in her first year of college and is working full-time at a minimum-wage job to pay for the apartment they've started living in together because they "couldn't stand being apart". I have this gnawing feeling that she's doubting her decision now (cold feet or whatever), but because everyone has been telling her it was a bad decision, she is being stubborn and refusing to open up to anybody--I think she feels that, if she does, she will be "admitting defeat" and all the naysayers will "win".

 

At this point, I don't know what to do. She's a fantastic girl, and deserves a million times better than a loser who brings out the worst in her. I want to be supportive, but it is against my integrity to support something so unhealthy and wrong. Please, tell me I'm overreacting or something. Give me some advice.

[Ronni_W]

My younger friend (19) is getting married in about a week, and I know (and everyone close to her knows as well) that it's a terrible mistake. Nobody knows what to do.

Honestly, the best thing to do is be loving and supportive.

 

In truth, we cannot know what is a "right" or "wrong" decision for someone else -- they may very well have their own Soul Purpose and Life Lessons that they are working on. It usually isn't even clear to them, what they are supposed to be taking out of the relationships and experiences that they choose for themselves.

 

It's difficult on us to just stand back and allow our loved ones to make seemingly "self-destructive" choices...but that is part of loving them, too -- allowing that they have some Inner Wisdom going on, respecting their right to make unwise or misguided decisions, and accepting their choices without judgment.

If/when there are negative consequences, just help them at that point. There really isn't anything else that she would perceive as constructive.

[norajane]

I agree with Ronni. Clearly, telling her she's making a mistake is not helpful. Perhaps if you just show your love and support and are there for her during this time, she'll start sharing how she is feeling and what is driving her decision.

 

There's a reason that a 19 year old girl who is in her first year of college is so set on getting married. What fears of hers are driving this decision? Is she afraid no one else will ever want her (since he was her first relationship by 18 or 19, she might have that fear)? Was she carried away with the romance of it - teens are prone to that, thanks Hollywood?

 

What is their rush in getting married NOW? Why can't they wait ?

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

Thanks, both of you. I know that's what I needed to hear, and what I need to do...it's just hard. I feel like I'm betraying her (and even my own values) to support something that will most likely end up hurting her more in the end (I already have one friend who was divorced by age 22!). But you're right--I don't know what the outcome will be--maybe this guy will grow up and become a good match for her--maybe marriage will propel him in that direction?

There's a reason that a 19 year old girl who is in her first year of college is so set on getting married. What fears of hers are driving this decision? Is she afraid no one else will ever want her (since he was her first relationship by 18 or 19, she might have that fear)? Was she carried away with the romance of it - teens are prone to that, thanks Hollywood?

 

What is their rush in getting married NOW? Why can't they wait ?

I think you're right on the money here, nora. About a month previous to her meeting her fiance, she was with another guy for a short while who basically tried to use her for sex but didn't want to be in a relationship with her. He ended up still having feelings for his ex, and as soon as the ex reciprocated, my friend was left behind without a thought. This hurt her a lot--but I think it hurt her sense of self the most. The fact that the fiance followed so closely after this guy probably gave her a feeling of stability--a guy who was crazy about her and promised to be with her forever is a welcome change to being forgotten and replaced.

 

But what I've always thought is, if you're right for someone, you'll still be right in a few years, when you're done college and at a stable point in life, when a wedding isn't just stress built upon stress. I really wish she'd at least wait a little while longer, but I guess I'll just try to be supportive.

[carhill]

OP, perhaps a number of months ago, if loved ones had taken a slightly different approach, your friend would have been and would be more receptive to loving advice. As things are, it's really doubtful. "Tough love", as often practiced here on LS, doesn't work on everyone.

 

She is on her own path. What will be will be. How you choose to be a friend is up to you.

[Ronni_W]

--maybe this guy will grow up ... --I think it hurt her sense of self

It's not just about HIM growing up...it's also about HER learning how to repair her damaged sense of self (it's up to HER to increase her own self-esteem, self-confidence, self-worthiness, etc.) That is, the relationship can offer BOTH of them an opportunity to develop into happy, successful, supportive, well-functioning adults...and their function is to do that for themselves PLUS help the other to do that.

 

You can look at it as the one relationship having very different things to teach the two individuals -- if they have the self-awareness and desire to grow, and if they learn positive ways of facilitating each others' growth. Then, they will indeed prove to be the exact "right" choice for each other

[Trialbyfire]

Tough love and therapy are the same. Those that need it the most, never benefit from it since they're determined to remain in denial.

 

There's nothing you can do about it.

 

I'm with Ronnie. This isn't about him, it's about her. She's the type that needs to learn the hard way, through personal pain.

[carhill]

One of the true revelations of MC is that of the relevance of the how to the what. I've watched our psychologist in action, both with myself and my wife, and admire the way he changes approach based on our perceived psychologies. To me, this is the essence of therapy, both facilitating growth and learning different ways of approaching the same issues.

 

Engagement and patience are key. I hope that I practice that here. It sure has worked for me

[Trialbyfire]

I also wonder about therapists with long-term patients who don't have disorders. Are they causing co-dependencies for the almighty buck?

[Quinch]

My friend is 34 and making a very similar mistake. You can't tell them they're doing the wrong thing because they won't thank you for it. Just be there as a friend and let her figure it out for herself.

[Ronni_W]

I also wonder about therapists with long-term patients who don't have disorders. Are they causing co-dependencies for the almighty buck?

IMO, it's the backwards thinking/training that therapists ought to "facilitate the client's own realizations and awakenings" -- wtf am I wasting my time and money here for, if I could freakin' figure it out by myself, you freak??? Poor clients just sit there spinning their wheels for far too long...and can lose self-esteem and important relationships in the meantime.

 

Many a times I've given various therapists heck for not just coming out and telling me what they are seeing -- it's not like I'm a doorknob and won't ultimately make my own decisions about whatever they deem relevant to share.[/rant]

 

OP, if you'll be encouraging your friend to get counseling -- let her know that she can question the therapist's methods, and to change therapists if she doesn't feel progress after about 4 to 6 sessions.

[carhill]

I also wonder about therapists with long-term patients who don't have disorders. Are they causing co-dependencies for the almighty buck?

That is a good point. I don't get that sense in our case, as the psychologist has been the one to suggest proactive breaks in therapy to gauge its effect and the longer term probabilities of behavioral change. We just completed a two-month break.

 

I personally can't imagine seeing a psychologist long-term (like years) but, for some people with severe psychological issues, such might be efficacious. If I were single and not interested in romantic relationships, therapy would be without marked purpose. I've always had good long-term friendships (decades) and always had a loving relationship with my parents. I just lacked proper tools and perspective for a deeper, more intimate relationship, as well as a good understanding of what compatibility in such a relationship really means. Perhaps it's a bit late in life to be seeking those tools, but life is an adventure.

 

Hopefully the OP will support her friend. IMO, support and challenge are the essence of balanced love. Tough love without the support speaks many languages, and none too loving, IMO.

[Trialbyfire]

There's a fine line between compassion and enabling. When people have compassion for others, it's a good thing. When people enable dysfunctional behaviour, it's a self-ego/justification stroke.

[carhill]

There's a fine line between compassion and enabling. When people have compassion for others, it's a good thing. When people enable dysfunctional behaviour, it's a self-ego/justification stroke.

Perhaps a bit too religious (I'm not) but "love the sinner and decry the sin" has relevance. Support and validate the person but challenge the relationship/behavior/habit/whatever. IMO, it's important that the support be consistent and shown in actions and words. Also, challenge without judgement. This is something our psychologist is expert at. I wish I could explain the nuances of it in cogent terms. The best I can do is relate that it is a mix of verbiage, intonation and body language which conveys the caring, validation and the message of challenge in a seamless format.

 

OP, at this point, do you think anything you or anyone else will do or say will make any difference? Why?

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

Perhaps a bit too religious (I'm not) but "love the sinner and decry the sin" has relevance. Support and validate the person but challenge the relationship/behavior/habit/whatever. IMO, it's important that the support be consistent and shown in actions and words.

Good post, car. We really do want the best for her, and have never tried to make her feel bed about herself for her decisions, but she becomes very defensive very easily (I think because, on some level, she knows she's being silly about this). She makes it seem as though challenging her getting married very quickly is a challenge/affront to her as a person.

 

To answer your other question, I'm not sure, but if I had no hope at all I wouldn't have bothered to make this thread. I guess I posted hoping for either a) the magic words that would cause her to reconsider, or b) people to tell me just to be supportive and not to feel like I'm doing her a disservice by doing so.

[carhill]

We really do want the best for her, and have never tried to make her feel bed about herself for her decisions, but she becomes very defensive very easily (I think because, on some level, she knows she's being silly about this). She makes it seem as though challenging her getting married very quickly is a challenge/affront to her as a person.

 

Let's break that down. Is she defensive in general or is it specific to issues like this relationship? Is she otherwise sensitive emotionally? Any patterns?

 

As to challenging her and your perception of her reaction, try pondering this... she is essentially offering to commit her mind, body and spirit to this man and you're telling her she's wrong (yes, I know not "like that"). Would that not go to the very heart of who you are, especially if you valued the person it was coming from? If not, think about why and how she and you are different in other ways. We're all different.

 

IMO, you've voiced your opinion. She's aware of it (and those of others) and will process it in her own way and time. If I were a friend, I would support her now and zip my lip about the guy. Silence is an interesting thing

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

She is very sensitive, but I wouldn't say defensive, generally.

 

I realize there's really no nice way to tell someone they're dating/going to marry a loser/someone who isn't good for them, but I think it's about perspective as well. If someone told me I was making a mistake being with my boyfriend, it wouldn't bother me--I know they'd be wrong, because I'm confident about our relationship. But on the other hand, if almost everyone I was close to voiced opposition, I think I'd probably reassess our relationship rather than lashing out at all the messengers. (Although, maybe I wouldn't? It's hard to say really, because it's never happened to me before, nor can I imagine it, realistically.)

 

Overall though, I think you're right--there's no sense in continuing to make her defensive. I'm sad for her, because I know she can do way better than this guy, and their marriage probably isn't going to have a happy ending--but like others have said, it's a learning experience, and nobody else can experience it for her.

[Trialbyfire]

Perhaps a bit too religious (I'm not) but "love the sinner and decry the sin" has relevance. Support and validate the person but challenge the relationship/behavior/habit/whatever. IMO, it's important that the support be consistent and shown in actions and words. Also, challenge without judgement. This is something our psychologist is expert at. I wish I could explain the nuances of it in cogent terms. The best I can do is relate that it is a mix of verbiage, intonation and body language which conveys the caring, validation and the message of challenge in a seamless format.

I suspect this works for you. Manipulation rarely works on me.

[carhill]

Manipulation has a negative inference. What about this position implies negativity? I've been manipulated masterfully by women for much of my life and it was generally to get what they wanted, not to support or assist me in any way. To me, that's negative, so I generally attach negative connotations to manipulative behaviors.

 

You're like my wife. Browbeat someone with your truth long enough and they'll cave

[Trialbyfire]

I think you and your wife share some similarities!

 

So you feel it's okay to manipulate people to get to "your" (generic) definition of functional or positive?

[carhill]

As the OP has commented that her friend is "sensitive", I think such a path would be efficacious and healthy. I know my wife chose a different path and, well, here we are

 

And, yes, one of the behaviors I'm working on in MC is being more diplomatic in my approach. God I hate diplomats

[Trialbyfire]

Where I sit is that there's nothing you can do to "make" someone do what you feel best for them. You can only express your concerns in the way that suits your style and the rest is up to them.

 

I will admit that I find enablers and validators disingenuous.

[trubella]

i went through something similar a few years back, except it is with a male friend whose a bit older(22 at the time) and not so inexperienced. i found out that he was marrying a girl he had been dating for 9 months.

 

i seen all the red flags with his potential wife but he was blinded by the honeymoon phase of the relationship. she was 34, had 3 kids by 3 different fathers, controlling, posessive, insecure. with all that being said he still wanted to marry her. all i could do is ask him if he was sure this is what he wanted? beyond that i couldnt bring myself to tell him he's making a mistake, knowing it could push him away, we've been friends for 10yrs.

 

i know how hard it is to want that person to see the light, but truth is it isnt happening, this is something they have to see for themself.

 

true enough my friend has now been unhappily married for 3 years, he complains about his situation every chance that he gets when we do conversate saying he made a mistake. i could pull the "i told you so" card but i dont have it in me.

 

so i think the best thing to do is let her live, she'll find out eventually that he's no prince.

[You'reasian]

What a challenge. Trying to convince the young and in-love that they aren't ready for marriage....I'm just going to sit back and learn from this one.

[GrnEyedGemini]

I was in a similar situation 6 years ago.

 

My best friend got engaged to her bf of 8 months when we were 18. She asked me to be the maid of honor, so I definitely felt conflicted because i did not think this guy was good for her.

 

Throughout the 10 month engagement, she would call me crying often because of a fight they got into. He was extremely possessive and jealous. She hardly ever did anything outside of school and work without him. Straight out of her parents house she moved into an apartment with him, so she had never had a chance to be on her own. This guy was manipulative and controlling. When they would fight, he would say horrible things he knew would hurt her...thats when she'd call me. He had a temper problem too...he punched a couple holes in the walls of the apartment they shared and he even shoved her against a wall ...only once that I am aware, but still!!!

 

Anyway, they got married even with my subtle protests. I never pushed my opinions on her, but she knew what i thought and how I felt about him. I was always there for her when she needed me but I also gently told her that I thought she deserved better and that I thought she was making a mistake marrying someone like him.

 

They got married when we were all 19. And today, at 23, they are happily expecting their first child! They went through some tough times. There was even an affair on her part, but they have both changed tremendously, as most people do during their early twenties. He has relaxed and is no longer the possessive, controlling, ********* he was 6 years ago. He really did grow up alot, as did she. Now that I look at their relationship, it's not anywhere near as bad as I was expecting their marriage to be. Well, not now anyway.

 

All in all, I'm glad she's happy. I still think they should have waited longer till they both grew up a lil, but its worked out so far. AND...the most important part...I still have my best friend.

 

So, from my experience...you are there to be her friend...not her mom. So be her friend and be there throughout all of her decisions, good or bad. That is what a friend is after all.