Moral values vs. Promiscuity

[Trialbyfire]

I believe morals and values CAN change from your younger years as you get older.

 

For example someone mentioned promiscuity in relation to looking for external validation. What if that was caused by a life occurance, or upbringing. And what if that person then had counselling which resolved that belief? Would and could that not change their fundamental moral value with regard to sex?

 

My husband and I have never discussed our sexual history. We are both clean obviously. The rest has never been discussed and never will be. It's the past and it stays there. I trust him and love him, and I have no requirement to judge him on that past basis nor him me.

 

If your moral value regarding sex is strong, and you feel it 100% necessary to know your partners past. Be prepared to lose the relationship over it if you hear what you don't like.

Which for me, is a given, since I don't want a partner who doesn't view sex as anything beyond an itch to scratch or a form of validation mechanism. There's also the risk-taker personality that goes with having unprotected sex with a high number of partners.

 

I'm sorry, but a woman having had a high number of sexual partners is indicative of promiscuity and shouldnt be overlooked.

 

Why you may ask?

 

Because if shes had a high number of sex partners it means that shes come to view sex as no big deal and as simply a recreational activity to have fun and if thats the case then shes much more likely to justify cheating as simply having some meaningless fun.

If you apply this to women, you'd better apply this to men. I don't particularly care what people want to do with their lives, I just care about the person who I'm partnering with.

[Jake Barnes]

Well boys need to sow their wild oats TBF

[Trialbyfire]

Double standards Jake. Not acceptable.

[Siphon9a]

I posted this thread for this very reason. To see the difference in opinions on this subject. For some it's okay and for others it's not. Some view morals with a different set of glasses. For me I take the more conservative side and see anything out of the context of a relationship wrong.

 

First question I will be asked. Have you ever done anything like that in the past that you would say is immoral? No, no FWB, no ONS, none of that. I don't even go to far as to kiss on the first date. I guess being raised by my grandparents gave me old set of values that seem to not fit in today's society. Well I'm not one to go along with the pack and am proud of the fact I did not do those things and do not feel I missed out on anything as some may say. I know where my value system is, it's determining how to deal with someone else's value system and the stupid choices they make. Even when one says it was a mistake, was it really? HA, was a post. This validated so much in my line of thinking.

 

Trialbyfire, I'm beginning to see why you stick by your choices on how you view things people do and when you find what's not like your views, you move on before you get attached. That way you don't have to fight all the negative thoughts in your head. There are so many people out there who can have your like views and can treat you just as well as someone who did those things, it's just that with the like views, there's one less major wall to overcome.

 

It can be debated either way but for me, I'm staying conservative with the promiscuous activity and I want someone who can see that in the same light.

[Ronni_W]

not giving a damn about his own health or the health of others or indeed popping kids out here there and everywhere.

... It's the pure lack of respect, responsibility and forethought that bothers me.

Gotcha! That is a different matter. Though I wouldn't put risky and irresponsible behaviour under umbrella of "morality", those things you mention are obviously mighty important to you, and do deserve your full consideration and a well-informed ultimate decision.

 

Any chance you can find understanding and forgiveness under the umbrella of "young and stupid"? And perhaps even gratitude that he does not have to live with any permanent consequences of said youth and stupidity?? Cos I still believe his current beliefs and perspectives are more important than whatever crap he got up to in the past.

 

But if you can't find your way past his past, then breaking up is really your only sane option. (Maybe you want to start your own thread for more opinions, though.)

[Trialbyfire]

Trialbyfire, I'm beginning to see why you stick by your choices on how you view things people do and when you find what's not like your views, you move on before you get attached. That way you don't have to fight all the negative thoughts in your head. There are so many people out there who can have your like views and can treat you just as well as someone who did those things, it's just that with the like views, there's one less major wall to overcome.

You've got my attitude bang on. The less friction in a relationship, the more likely it will succeed. This doesn't mean that it has to be a never fight, perfect scenario, but core values are non-negotiables for me.

 

Seriously, why keep pushing the big white elephant uphill?

[Jake Barnes]

Good gawd! How archaic are you?! A simple case of male chauvenism at its finest.

the old ways are the best ways

[Siphon9a]

You've got my attitude bang on. The less friction in a relationship, the more likely it will succeed. This doesn't mean that it has to be a never fight, perfect scenario, but core values are non-negotiables for me.

 

Seriously, why keep pushing the big white elephant uphill?

 

Yeah I hear ya, in the end it's taken me 6 months of wanting and hoping and wishing things to work only to wake up this morning and realize, I'm in exactly the same place I was in the beginning. No more pushing the white elephant uphill for me. I just wish I could have figured it out sooner.

[AAlike]

I'm sorry, but a woman having had a high number of sexual partners is indicative of promiscuity and shouldnt be overlooked.

 

Why you may ask?

 

Because if shes had a high number of sex partners it means that shes come to view sex as no big deal and as simply a recreational activity to have fun and if thats the case then shes much more likely to justify cheating as simply having some meaningless fun.

 

oh boy.

 

a few questions come to mind:

 

1) Why do you feel the need to stipulate that this applies to a woman in the first paragraph?

 

2) What is a high number of sex partners?

 

3) I never quite got the whole "sex is no big deal to them so they will cheat" logic. I'll tell you what - I've had a number of partners that I'm sure is high to some and tame to others (considering how few LTR's I've been in I'd say it's probably on the tame side but whatever), and sex has never been as little of a deal to me as it is now when I can just roll over and have it on a whim. so why in god's name would I need to go out and cheat? for sex? please, I have that five times a week now...in fact, it's hilarious to me when I look back and think of how I thought that i needed to act in order to "get laid" or whatever. plus, if you think that cheating is really about just sex then you're really kidding yourself.

 

EDIT: I realize that Jake was just f*cking with us - but still, the points apply.

[Trialbyfire]

Yeah I hear ya, in the end it's taken me 6 months of wanting and hoping and wishing things to work only to wake up this morning and realize, I'm in exactly the same place I was in the beginning. No more pushing the white elephant uphill for me. I just wish I could have figured it out sooner.

You gave it the best effort you could. Now you've learned what one of your needs are v. wants. Unmet needs build resentment.

 

All the better to understand for your next relationship, so it's far from being a wasted effort.

[AAlike]

 

The other aspect that bugs me when people take situations out of context (not saying everyone does this, but some do), is when a poster will judge a gf on having a high number of past partners and this will carry more weight then any other characteristic the girl may have. Instead of taking the whole person into consideration, weighting the parts as slices of the whole, they focus solely on that portion and judge the whole person for it.

 

That's because this is oftentimes just an extension of male ego and pride, not any real "jealousy" or morals - especially the guys who get pissed when their girl has less partners than they've had!

 

For example... there was one thread consisted of a bf who felt his gf's number of sexual partners showed she doesn't care for, or respect, her body. Yes, that is true to a degree.

 

It is?

[AAlike]

Which for me, is a given, since I don't want a partner who doesn't view sex as anything beyond an itch to scratch or a form of validation mechanism. There's also the risk-taker personality that goes with having unprotected sex with a high number of partners.

 

Another recurring line of yours...have you actually had someone tell you in the past "I view sex as nothing more than an itch to scratch, and I often use it to validate myself" or have you inferred this because OBVIOUSLY they think that way due to their pasts?

[Jake Barnes]

Who says I was f*cking with you?

 

If you've had sex with a lot of different people then it shows that your attitude toward sex is one in which its just a physical act, like an itch to scratch as TBF says.

 

So now that you're in a relationship you all of a sudden change the rules superficially because by saying you will be monogamous you are granting sexual activity a higher status that just being a physical act...but internally youve laready established your true attitude toward sex through your past behavior. Therefore you have a much higher likliehood to cheat either during a stressful time in your relationship or when you confront overwhelming tempatation

[AAlike]

Yeah I hear ya, in the end it's taken me 6 months of wanting and hoping and wishing things to work only to wake up this morning and realize, I'm in exactly the same place I was in the beginning. No more pushing the white elephant uphill for me. I just wish I could have figured it out sooner.

 

so you've officially given up?

 

I'm not saying that's a bad thing - but I'm hoping that at least some present instances of behavior are factoring in here and it's not just 100% her past.

[Jake Barnes]

Another recurring line of yours...have you actually had someone tell you in the past "I view sex as nothing more than an itch to scratch, and I often use it to validate myself" or have you inferred this because OBVIOUSLY they think that way due to their pasts?

I think shes dead on

 

Arent those the two main reasons people have casual sex? If not pray tell what are they?

[AAlike]

Well boys need to sow their wild oats TBF

 

So this is legit? not a joke?

[Trialbyfire]

Another recurring line of yours...have you actually had someone tell you in the past "I view sex as nothing more than an itch to scratch, and I often use it to validate myself" or have you inferred this because OBVIOUSLY they think that way due to their pasts?

How do you view someone with 150 past sexual partners?

[Jake Barnes]

So this is legit? not a joke?

Well up until recent times men were much more likely to cheat than women, because they weren't expected to have the same standards.

 

No, its not completely legit, I was kind of kidding, but precisely because men were allowed to sow their wild oats y social convention they were much more likely to have mistresses than women were likely to have lovers

 

The bottom line being that once a casual attitude toward sex is established it generally sticks

[AAlike]

How do you view someone with 150 past sexual partners?

 

OK fine - presumably you think that 150 people would be a "shocking" number or an outlier - I can grant you that - and I'm certainly not immune to societal norms.

 

How would you view someone with 11 partners (the national average)?

[Trialbyfire]

OK fine - presumably you think that 150 people would be a "shocking" number or an outlier - I can grant you that - and I'm certainly not immune to societal norms.

 

How would you view someone with 11 partners (the national average)?

Every person has a different bar. It's up to them.

 

Eleven partners is not the national average.

[Jake Barnes]

Assuming that probably half or more of those partners were in LTRs or at least STR's that didnt work out I couldnt call that promiscuous, but I know you werent asking me

 

I had a gf who at 37 had had more than 70 partners by her own admission and my sister said shed cheat on me just like she did everyone else. Of course she claimed she never would and of course she did

[Trialbyfire]

Okay, I'm off to a meeting. Here's an article about the median number of partners for men (7) and for women (4).

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19374216/

[Jake Barnes]

What if a guy has had eleven partners, but half of them were one time stripper/hooker type deals and it only happened because he came into more money than he was used to and the girls were hot curvy latin slutty girls that he didn't think he could pull without cash?

[Stockalone]

Any chance you can find understanding and forgiveness under the umbrella of "young and stupid"? And perhaps even gratitude that he does not have to live with any permanent consequences of said youth and stupidity?? Cos I still believe his current beliefs and perspectives are more important than whatever crap he got up to in the past.

 

Being "young and stupid" isn't an excuse, at least for me it isn't. Granted, I don't believe that most people truly change, so that influences my thinking and makes past actions very relevant in the here and now for me. If there is something in a person's past that I find (morally) reprehensible, that can be (and in my case has been) enough to outweigh everything else.

 

I understand that I might be very rigid with this, but are you guys telling me that there is nothing, nothing at all, that would bug you enough so that you would eventually choose not to enter a relationship with someone?

 

In general, I do not think that people who have a problem with certain behaviour (it doesn't have to be about sex or promiscuity like in this thread, it applies to other areas of life to) because it clashes with their core beliefs, what they belief to be right and wrong, will find a way around those feelings. The majority will try and fail.

 

If there are things that you find so "wrong" that you won't even consider doing them, then I believe it is impossible to accept someone who chose a different path. Often times, this is seen as punishing someone for their past actions, when that really isn't what this is all about.

 

For example, I would rather have my dick cut off than being shared or share the woman I am with. Now, if someone did not have a problem with a threesome or non-exclusive relationships in the past (thus was able to share him-/herself and/or their SO), I will never be convinced that we are compatible. Sure, that person might be capable of being absolutely monogamous in another relationship, but I do not believe that it is the same level of conviction.

 

Another example would be someone who has cheated. Some cheaters will claim that they love you despite having cheated on you. Maybe the cheater actually does love his SO in his own way, but it is not the kind of love I offer and it most certainly is not the kind of love I need in order to be happy in a relationship.

 

Usually the people who have been more adventurous expect the other person to find a way to accept their choices and keep trying to convince the more conservative side that they need to see the bigger picture here. And this really bugs me.

 

I don't mind people having casual sex, as long as they are willing to accept that this will sometimes mean that other people will not be o.k. with their choices and as a result, might reject them.

[rproctor]

Wow this is getting ridiculous!

 

What if you met a guy/girl who only had 3 partners... Not because they only wanted three, but because they were not social enough to find more partners? They viewed sex the same as the chick with 150 partners, but didnt have the opportunities she did... I doubt you would have a problem with their past of three partners, and probably wouldnt leave them over it... But there morals are no stronger than someone who views sex as a sport.

 

Im going to step out on a limb here and say that most everything that is being said in this thread is wrong, one sided, and really not thought out! Seriously, you guys are making some pretty severe generalizations! Just a couple:

 

If someone was promiscuous they are more likely to cheat: Wrong

If someone was promiscuous they are more likely to revert back to it: Wrong

If someone was promiscuous they most likely do not value sex: Wrong

If someone was promiscuous they are immoral: Wrong

If someone cheated once they are likely to cheat again: Wrong

And im sure there were a lot more I either didnt read in depth or forgot to mention!

 

Really, you guys are ignorant to believe these things. If you fall victim to this mindset then you really should broaden your narrow views on life, society, and morality. I suggest reading some eastern philosophy to begin with.

 

Siphon: you would be a complete fool to let this girl go because of her past. But if your immaturity outweighs your love for her, then in her best interest (not yours) you should let her go. But do note, one day you will have to deal with this issue, regardless of what you do with this relationship.

 

Honestly, everyone who says the past is oh too difficult and woe is me, I was there! I was in that same state of mind. I thought, oh my jesus how can I be with someone like this??? Easy, I opened my mind, stopped questioning and judging her past, and focused on what is important to this relationship: us, here, and now.

 

You guys dont realize, there is no secret answer that someone can tell you. Its about understanding that YOU AND YOUR PARTNER ARE DIFFERENT! You both lived different lives, and if you put your feet in your partners shoes just for one minute, you would probably change your thinking about all of this. You dont know what that person went through, what events took place to lead up to that moment. You have no idea, and you never will. You cant justify there past, you dont need to. You dont need to forgive them, or even get over it. For ***s sake you dont even need to understand it, why they did what they did. None of that matter, dont you see??? Dont you understand, IT DOESNT MATTER!

 

What would you think if your partner said, "Oh well you have only slept with 5 people? You obviously dont have enough sexual skills to satisfy me, so I am leaving you!". Would that be fair? Would that statement be true? No, not at all.

 

Reading through this thread frustrates me because in all honesty, a lot of the people are giving wrong, badly thought out, and inaccurate information. I suggest you look deeper on the internet for information regarding this subject than here in LS if you insist on trying to self help yourself out of this mindset.